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 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 126
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Instant Old AgePage 6 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
I think Skyr is a blatant shill for Big Pharma, and I don't want him to have the last word on a thread that I have initiated. Statins are inherently dangerous. That's not just my opinion, but an opinion shared by scientists. Let's look at one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XykVFMd7S-c
 Oldmanhome
Joined: 5/21/2015
Msg: 127
Instant Old Age
Posted: 6/1/2015 2:11:49 PM
Statins are known to reduce inflammation. They also help prevent cholesterol deposits from rupturing, which can block blood flow in even the fittest of individuals and cause heart death. In the rest of this Thread, Skyr is right on as is Ed Bear. Interesting thread, and I agree with them. Go with the established science. Otherwise you are whistling in the dark.
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 128
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Instant Old Age
Posted: 6/7/2015 7:11:38 AM
Systemic inflammation is amenable to an anti-inflammatory diet + exercise.

"Established science" from BigPharma is BS. BigPharma "science", as is all of US medicine, primarily about a profit, not "science" nor the health of its victims. BigPharma spends twice as much on marketing as on research.

"established science" in a single report in the 1950s for statins and cholesterol was totally bogus, has been debunked.

But BigPharma realized that could create a strawman disease of "high cholesterol" and sell solution of statin. Creating diseases and creating epidemics of diagnoses is how BigPharma lives and profits handsomely.

"established science" for 40+ years has been "low fat". Finally, that "science" is being destroyed.

"Fat" is a non-discriminate, generic term that excludes necessary healthy fats and oils.

The decades of low-fat BAD MEDICAL ADVICE has led to overconsumption of processed carbohydrates and HIGH-FAT people.

Likewise, "saturated fat" includes healthy, naturally saturated fat like coconut oil along with pathogenic mammal fat and industrially saturated fat (eg, Crisco).
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 129
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Instant Old Age
Posted: 6/14/2015 10:46:13 PM
"Statins are known to reduce inflammation. They also help prevent cholesterol deposits from rupturing, which can block blood flow in even the fittest of individuals and cause heart death. In the rest of this Thread, Skyr is right on as is Ed Bear. Interesting thread, and I agree with them. Go with the established science. Otherwise you are whistling in the dark."

Do you and Skyr work for Big Pharma, or do you just have a bad case of stupid? If you believe the marketing crap for statins, you deserve whatever they do to you.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 130
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Posted: 6/16/2015 5:19:44 AM

Do you and Skyr work for Big Pharma, or do you just have a bad case of stupid? If you believe the marketing crap for statins, you deserve whatever they do to you.


No I don't; but it is ironic you call others stupid when you use a shill gambit as your primary argument.

Pretty weak, don't you think?
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 131
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Posted: 8/14/2015 11:50:23 AM
Actually Skyr, you're full of s##t. My primary argument was my personal experience with statins, before I began to research their deleterious effects. They are poisons, end of discussion, and no matter how brilliant you think you are, you're still stupid.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 132
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Posted: 8/14/2015 5:45:15 PM

Actually Skyr, you're full of s##t. My primary argument was my personal experience with statins, before I began to research their deleterious effects. They are poisons, end of discussion, and no matter how brilliant you think you are, you're still stupid.


Everything is a "poison" in the right dose. Drink enough water and it will kill you :)

You experienced myalgia, which is expected in about 10% of patients. It's not a contraindication in itself, nor does it negate the benefit, particularly for secondary prevention.
 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 133
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Posted: 8/15/2015 3:14:37 AM
The right diet reduces inflammation more than any drug.
Exercise is important.
Again. No evidence statins will stop a heart attack (esp in women).
May benefit men who have had one in very old age.
I see person after person gain weight esp in the belly and get" sloppy memories" taking statins all the time.
Some are now diabetic or pre diabetic.


Recently saw a western taught scientist/physician on PBS regarding Alzheimer research that was very informative.
Whats bad for the heart is bad for the brain.No question.

Was surprised slightly myself at some of the info since I thought Alzheimer's was somewhat More genetic than it really is. About 3 % for women and 2 % for men in most studies.Some research less than 1% is found to be genetic.

Like most genetic markers that cause a disease to manifest has to be fueled by the same bad lifestyle. Lifestyles are often more than not coming from our families.So genetics is blamed.
Main reasons we get Alzheimer's/heart disease is an Inflammatory Diet-Environmental, diabetes, smoking
Food was number one ( bad foods like sugar and grains, low omega 3's)and this was a scientist working with drug companies.
Other environmental factors including stress, lack of sleep & chemicals.

This is also the cause of heart disease much more than not.
Stains are dangerous and lower life enriching years for most. Period.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
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Posted: 8/15/2015 4:37:07 AM

No evidence statins will stop a heart attack (esp in women).


That is incorrect, particularly when applied to secondary prevention. Statins reduce both cardiovascular events and mortality, as demonstrated by multiple RCT's


The right diet reduces inflammation more than any drug.


That would depend on the drug and which part of the inflammatory cascade you are referring to. Biologics, for instance, are incredibly powerful suppressors of the inflammatory response. Far more than the wildest claims from pop diet promoters.

The hs-CRP is a non-specific cardiovascular risk marker, with limited practical use.


I see person after person gain weight esp in the belly and get" sloppy memories" taking statins all the time.
Some are now diabetic or pre diabetic.


Statins are associated with small increase in diabetes incidence at high doses, but the benefits generally outweigh the risk for secondary prevention and in high risk primary prevention.

For weight gain, that is an effect measured at a population level. If you can tell that someone put on the equivalent weight of a cup of water, you're either imagining things, or subject to confirmation bias.



Was surprised slightly myself at some of the info since I thought Alzheimer's was somewhat More genetic than it really is. About 3 % for women and 2 % for men in most studies.Some research less than 1% is found to be genetic


Not a useful guesstimate except for conditions with monogenetic influence and high penetrance. There are multiple gene markers associated with alzheimers. Most have yet to be identified, nor are they likely to have complete penetrance.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 135
Instant Old Age
Posted: 8/15/2015 4:56:08 AM
There is something appealing about the term "instant old age".

In our fast based culture, no waiting about for 30 years has to be appealing.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 136
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Posted: 8/15/2015 11:54:24 PM
It is obvious that Skyr and I come from two very different generations. I was raised and educated to think for myself. Skyr was evidently educated (indoctrinated) to take the word of "authorities" as immutable law. Scientists and their studies can produce whatever result is most beneficial to their corporate sponsors. When you throw around statistics, and proclamations, quoting so called experts, it just shows me how empty your arguments are. Keep in mind that the overall agenda for the ruling elite, is population reduction (by any means necessary).
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
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Posted: 8/16/2015 3:36:19 AM

It is obvious that Skyr and I come from two very different generations.


As demonstrated by the Flynn effect



Scientists and their studies can produce whatever result is most beneficial to their corporate sponsors.


If scientists can produce whatever result they like, presumably there is no such thing as science. Modern society is a figment of your imagination. Back to witchcraft



When you throw around statistics, and proclamations, quoting so called experts, it just shows me how empty your arguments are.



Now, being an 'educated' person, we'll make the assumption you understand what a quote is. So tell us- which expert I quoted and where. Go on...



Keep in mind that the overall agenda for the ruling elite, is population reduction (by any means necessary).


It's nice that you consider me part of the ruling elite, but your proposition is illogical. Statins are generally initiated in people at the end of their child bearing years, and has no clinically significant effect on human fertility.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
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Posted: 8/18/2015 5:33:28 AM
As a person who received a degree in physics and engineering years before you were born, I think I know a little bit about science. As far as considering you to be part of the ruling elite, I would say you're more part of the mis-educated rabble.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 139
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:02:52 PM

As a person who received a degree in physics and engineering years before you were born, I think I know a little bit about science.


I am not impressed with your education, perhaps it's time to relearn basic principles. Your primary argument is based on personal anecdote or conspiracy theory, and when it is pointed out to be rather weak, you counter with ad hominem fallacy.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 140
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Posted: 8/19/2015 4:32:58 AM
I really could not care less about impressing you. You're a fool, and only another fool would seek your favor. When you have lived on this planet a few more years, maybe you will have something of value to contribute.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 141
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Posted: 8/20/2015 5:21:17 AM

I really could not care less about impressing you.


Then you shouldn't try so hard, because claiming to have a higher education, and actually having one, are two different things.

For instance, why pretend to have:
"received a degree in physics and engineering years before you were born"
when you do not believe in the scientific method?



You're a fool, and only another fool would seek your favor. When you have lived on this planet a few more years, maybe you will have something of value to contribute


If people ever pay for medical advice based on advancement in years, oh wise one, perhaps you can consider yourself of value to society.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 142
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Posted: 8/20/2015 2:09:06 PM
Your posts speak to the emptiness of your head, your heart, and your life. I truly feel sorry for you.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 143
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Posted: 8/20/2015 9:38:21 PM

Your posts speak to the emptiness of your head, your heart, and your life. I truly feel sorry for you.


Scrolling through your posts....it is a series of argumentum ad hominem, shill gambit, conspiracy theory and reasoning flaw. The echoes are in your head, not mine :)
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 144
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Posted: 9/7/2015 4:29:29 PM
Statins are poison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZomZEPBdbM

Do you want to listen to Skyr?
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 145
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Posted: 9/8/2015 5:02:29 AM

Statins are poison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZomZEPBdbM

Do you want to listen to Skyr?


Are you going to keep parroting the same thing on every thread?
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 146
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Posted: 9/8/2015 11:26:30 AM
That depends, are you going to persist in recommending poison as a cure? Your arrogance may cost someone their health, or their life. I'd like to prevent that.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
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Posted: 9/8/2015 3:18:07 PM

That depends, are you going to persist in recommending poison as a cure? Your arrogance may cost someone their health, or their life. I'd like to prevent that.


Statins are for cardiovascular risk reduction. It is not a cure for anything.

But I do feel compelled to correct misinformation when I see it :)
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 148
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Posted: 9/8/2015 5:17:26 PM
And I feel compelled to stamp out stupidity, one ***hole at a time.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 149
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Posted: 9/8/2015 6:43:55 PM

And I feel compelled to stamp out stupidity, one ***hole at a time.


You must have very sore toes. I can help you, but I'm not registered in your country.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 150
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Posted: 9/8/2015 10:32:34 PM
I can't think of a single instance when you would be qualified to help me. Physician heal thyself.
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