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 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 26
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positionsPage 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
I know...what you'd most like is that clear cut defination of misogyny to simply be hate of women...yet, it is in the way you've described those women...vain entitled nail filers sitting in their air conditioned getto offices complaining that men make more money...but, when speaking about the way that misogyny or misandry manifests itself in our society it must be taken into account the way a person speaks and to what context they are speaking.

So, these vain entitled nail filing women sitting in their airconditioned getto office are complaining about how men make more money than they do.



I think it's laughable how you imply it's "misogynistic" for me to just simply mention they are entitled nail filing complainers.


And rather than say it was a poor choice of words...rather than call me out for my imbellishment of your words-you restate my words as if they were your own....and then challange me about my understanding of the word misogyny...your words, both sets of them, are the very essence of the term misogyny...and you fail to recognize this...and then we wonder why the still exists, albeit to a lessor degree, the glass ceiling...


Here...so we both know what misogyny means:


Definitions

According to sociologist Allan G. Johnson, "misogyny is a cultural attitude of hatred for females because they are female." Johnson argues that:


"Misogyny .... is a central part of sexist prejudice and ideology and, as such, is an important basis for the oppression of females in male-dominated societies. Misogyny is manifested in many different ways, from jokes to pornography to violence to the self-contempt women may be taught to feel toward their own bodies."[3]

Michael Flood defines misogyny as the hatred of women, and notes:


"Though most common in men, misogyny also exists in and is practiced by women against other women or even themselves. Misogyny functions as an ideology or belief system that has accompanied patriarchal, or male-dominated societies for thousands of years and continues to place women in subordinate positions with limited access to power and decision making. [...] Aristotle contended that women exist as natural deformities or imperfect males [...] Ever since, women in Western cultures have internalised their role as societal scapegoats, influenced in the twenty-first century by multimedia objectification of women with its culturally sanctioned self-loathing and fixations on plastic surgery, anorexia and bulimia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 27
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 8:19:10 AM

So, these vain entitled nail filing women sitting in their airconditioned getto office are complaining about how men make more money than they do.


You still can't logically explain how its somehow misogyny to just simply express that these certain women are vain entitled nail filing women.

Using your same faulty logic, it's like saying that a woman is sexist if she says men are vain entitled ***holes when they complain about being rejected sex and think it's their god given right to get it without earning it.

Come on, no double standards.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 28
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History
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 9:25:48 AM
regarding this glass ceiling thing, it wont affect me in the job i do and
as im on the danny* just now most folk earn more than i do (although a guilty
wee secret, ive just spent £7.99p at fazal and sons superstore on 8 cans of
stella artois)

but to the geezer who posted on the forums before that he probably pays more in tax than others earn
and its a serious wee question

when you were becoming super wealthy did the glass ceiling appear in your line of work?
did it affect you in your job? did it bother you that there was a glass ceiling SOMEWHERE
when you were becoming rich and extremely wealthy?

or is it just now that you are extremely wealthy and pay more in tax than others earn that
the glass ceiling means anything?

p.s he probably doesnt read my posts the same as 24/7 claims but if he does not maybe someone
else can ask Mr Considerably Richer Than You the same question

Considerably Richer Than You - Harry Enfield and Chums - BBC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Kum8OUTuk

*the danny is a scottish saying for signing on the dole. which is called the brew.

danny la rue** being slang for brew

** danny la rue, geezer who dressed as a woman and was a uk entertainer tee and indeed hee
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 29
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History
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 9:48:22 AM

All this comes down to is that there are less women compared to men who want to either be CEOs or to do the most crappy jobs.

Many of these "most crappy jobs" also have a long history of patriarchial thinking - I suspect that whether or not a woman would be willing to do job the job has less to do with it than how those kinds of industries view female capabilities vs. male capabilities, and a still vibrant societal attitude that women should be protected and kept out of harm's way.

But it's utterly sexist to generalise men and make out that it's the reason why most or all women don't become CEOs or be able to work the tough dangerous jobs

I'm not particularly an expert on this, but I've always thought it's less about individual male attitudes, and more a kind of systemic and pervasive belief system. Not quite so blatant, perhaps, as my mother being amazed that I was able to succesfully connect a VCR, TV and speakers as efficiently as my brothers, or telling my sister that she didn't want to be a doctor because that was better left to men. I think many biases are subconscious rather than conscious and deliberate. In my own company, in an industry which has been predominantly male-dominated, I notice that as the younger generation of males becomes more involved in the hiring process, we have more women on the staff. This is, I think, partly because more women are going into this particular field, but also because the younger generation is less steeped in the cultural norms that I grew up with. I don't think the older men in our company are deliberately not hiring women; I think the biases are so built in that they're automatic and virtually invisible. To ask them, they'd deny and honestly believe that they're giving equal treatment to female applicants as male applicants, and put down the dearth of female hires to other factors. As a woman looking in, I see other evidence of this kind of 'invisible' bias in the older gentlemen that I don't see in the younger.

Changing an entire culture is going to take a few generations. I'd say we've actually made considerable gains since the 1960s, though there is still a ways to go.

I have to say that this seems an odd topic choice for a guy who's user name is "tie me up".
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 30
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 10:20:59 AM

Firstly, not every feminist thinks in the same wave lengths. Secondly, just because the dictionary meaning says this is what a feminist is, it doesn't mean their actions are going to be exactly that.


Out of one side of your mouth a dictionary definition cannot explain what a feminist is but, then we’re expected to hold that a misogynist can only be expressed in the exacting dictionary definition of hating women…and must use the word hate…


So again, please explain in logical detail how it's misogynistic? Where in that paragraph does it indicate that I hate the female gender?


In part this kind of pertains to the misogyny:


I have to say that this seems an odd topic choice for a guy who's user name is "tie me up".


It is in the implication that you tie me up then I tie you up…and I wonder is there equality in the tying up??? And of course I had to read the profile and wondered???? Still, it always goes back to that opening post where there was a degradation and demeaning statement about women…which could have been worded so much differently…but wasn’t:


Sorry to be so blunt but while we have women/feminists sitting in their comfy aircon, safe environments, in their office ghettos, filing their clean precious nails while whining about glass ceilings, equal pay, and how victimised they are.


And then I wondered about this:


The life threatening hardships men go through for all of us to survive.


Hahahahaha…And I have to go back to this statement…because it had me wondering…were those other men you wrote about? Or was it your own military experience…or was it that factory job that was the life threating job you had…


I think, partly because more women are going into this particular field, but also because the younger generation is less steeped in the cultural norms that I grew up with. I don't think the older men in our company are deliberately not hiring women; I think the biases are so built in that they're automatic and virtually invisible. To ask them, they'd deny and honestly believe that they're giving equal treatment to female applicants as male applicants, and put down the dearth of female hires to other factors. As a woman looking in, I see other evidence of this kind of 'invisible' bias in the older gentlemen that I don't see in the younger.


Why thank you…what a well written observation and one I totally agree with…I don’t believe the majority of wage gender disparity exists as a direct effort to do so…but, is an indirect result of attitudes that are slowly changing…


when you were becoming super wealthy did the glass ceiling appear in your line of work?
did it affect you in your job? did it bother you that there was a glass ceiling SOMEWHERE
when you were becoming rich and extremely wealthy?


Why yes…I have seen the glass ceiling and cellar in the few places I’ve worked over the past 35 years…and have seen this pervasive attitude slowly evaporate as times a changed…

Were you drinking stella before you went out for the 8 cans of stella??? And as to the attempt to change the topic…that doesn’t go so well in this forum…so, another time and place eh?


p.s he probably doesnt read my posts


Actually, I do read most of what you write…and actually agree with you at times…
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 31
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History
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 10:33:30 AM
aye? ye gods im shocked lol

but it was a serious question as its not something i thinbk about or will ever
encounter

not many glass ceilings in decorating

just as well as we would have no ceilings to paint

anyway im in shock and away to my pals for my tea

caledonian chicken

toodle pip


p.s you must admit that was a silly post you made about the paying tax thing geezer?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 32
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 10:43:26 AM

p.s you must admit that was a silly post you made about the paying tax thing geezer?


It was foolish of me :) It didn't prove any point but to look foolish.

I remembered that Sheryl Sandberg has been in the news of late and had some interesting observations about the lack of women in the corporate executive workplace:


By Liana B. Baker

March 12 (Reuters) - Sheryl Sandberg's new book "Lean In" challenges men in the upper echelons of corporate America to take more women under their wing.

Sandberg is on a promotional blitz for the new book, which has been praised as an ambitious reboot of feminism and criticized as a manifesto directed to women from a privileged perch. On Tuesday, she said men need to amp up their mentoring of women, especially younger ones just starting out in their careers.

Noting that men hold 86 percent of the top jobs in corporate America, Sandberg said in a interview Tuesday that, "We want women to get into those jobs, but if we don't get older men to mentor and sponsor younger women, this will never happen."

Sandberg's book was born out of talks she gave starting in 2010 about how the world has scant female leaders in politics and corporations.

After studying at Harvard and working at the U.S. Treasury Department, Sandberg rose to the top of Silicon Valley, jumping from Google to Chief Operating Officer at Facebook while raising two children. (Silicon Valley's reaction to Sandberg's book )

Sandberg acknowledged that there are stereotypes and double standards to tear down in mentoring relationships. An older man and a younger woman seen together at dinner or drinks looks like a date, while two men discussing business together looks perfectly normal, she said.

To underscore Sandberg's point, "Lean In" highlights a study published by the Center for Work-Life Policy and the Harvard Business Review that found men in high positions at companies were nervous meeting a younger woman one-on-one.

She also recounts an encounter with Larry Summers, who as U.S. Treasury Secretary served as her boss. Working on a speech together one night until 3 a.m. in South Africa, Sandberg had to make sure no one saw her step out of Summers' hotel room so late at night. Men, for example, never have to worry about that situation and it helps them move up faster in a corporate environment, she said.

"I want everyone to have the same policies for everyone and get explicit about them," Sandberg said.

Besides mentoring, she said male corporate executives need to be more cognizant of how women are perceived negatively once they start moving up. She calls this a "likeability gap" that holds women back from being ambitious. Managers should think twice before they give a performance review that calls a woman "aggressive," she said.

"As a woman gets more successful, everyone likes her less. This completely changes how women are portrayed in the office. What I believe is if you can make people aware of this bias that we all face - men and women alike - we can change it," she said in a separate television interview with Reuters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/12/sheryl-sandberg-men-mentor_n_2862971.html?utm_hp_ref=sheryl-sandberg



I'll pause for awhile and let ya'll beat the craype out of my viewpoints.
 sassybaby2013
Joined: 12/31/2012
Msg: 33
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 10:45:21 AM
Can you all get a dictionary and use a new word of the week?
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 34
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 3:03:44 PM
4ms4me



Many of these "most crappy jobs" also have a long history of patriarchial thinking - I suspect that whether or not a woman would be willing to do job the job has less to do with it than how those kinds of industries view female capabilities vs. male capabilities, and a still vibrant societal attitude that women should be protected and kept out of harm's way.


This may be true in some cases but it's silly to generalise and believe most males are stopping women from being in these positions due to this invisible patriarchal protection for women.

Why is it that people are so bent on blaming the male gender for everything? All it comes down to is that men are being blamed for the choices women are making.



I have to say that this seems an odd topic choice for a guy who's user name is "tie me up".


Why is it so odd? What does my profile or my kinks have to do with any of this? Just like bigbadnirish, he's trying to attack me instead of the topic. Or in other words, make the topic about me instead of what this thread is supposed to be about. This seems to happen often when these types of topics come up. People choose to attack/slander the messenger instead of attacking the topic. It's rare for a male to not cop slander and ridicule by others when he has opinions supportive to his gender when it comes to gender issues.

bigbadnirish



Out of one side of your mouth a dictionary definition cannot explain what a feminist is but, then we’re expected to hold that a misogynist can only be expressed in the exacting dictionary definition of hating women…and must use the word hate


A person can still label themselves as a feminist while not really wanting TRUE equality as for only having concern and consideration for one gender or having a womanfirstism attitude like many feminists I've came across over the years. There are equity feminists and then there are victim feminists. You should take your time in reading up on how Christina Hoff Sommers defines the different types of feminists.

On the other hand, a misogynist can only be one thing, a person who holds hate and bias against the female gender. You can't label someone a misogynist for any other reason. Such as your silly reasons like if I disagree with a feminist inspired myth and make a snarky remark about it, in your faulty logic, you deem that as misogyny.

As I asked earlier and I am really curious for your answer: Is a woman SEXIST if she says men are vain entitled ***holes when they complain about being rejected sex as these men may think it's their god given right to get it without earning it?

Yes or no? I would love to see your answer.

If this woman in this scenario isn't sexist, why am I for my scenario?



It is in the implication that you tie me up then I tie you up…and I wonder is there equality in the tying up??? And of course I had to read the profile and wondered????


Here we go again, bringing my profile/kinks into this discussion which has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. People usually resort to this when they know they are losing the argument, so they resort to ad hominem attacks.



Hahahahaha…And I have to go back to this statement…because it had me wondering…were those other men you wrote about? Or was it your own military experience…or was it that factory job that was the life threating job you had…


Here's some food for thought for the ignorant.

http://stakedintheheart.com/2012/08/07/do-any-women-work-at-the-dirty-difficult-and-dangerous-jobs-that-men-do-any-women-at-all/

As I mentioned earlier, it goes to show how much of a joke today's feminism is when they are so silent about not having equal numbers in these types of jobs and yet jump up and down about no equal numbers in CEO positions.

Many feminists seem to pick and choose what they want equality in. This is not what I define as an activist for equality, this is what I define as someone who just wants to benefit one gender. Being an activist for equality means demanding equality for ALL in ALL areas, not just the areas where women may appear disadvantaged or lesser in numbers. Wanting true equality means you would equally be considerable for ALL genders, not just one.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 35
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History
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 4:10:35 PM
Why is it that people are so bent on blaming the male gender for everything? All it comes down to is that men are being blamed for the choices women are making.

That's far too simplistic. If a woman makes the decision to go to university for a business degree and gets a job, but isn't able to move up because the power holders don't want to promote women, why is the "choice" the woman made at issue at all? If a woman applies to a job as swamper on a recyling truck but she isn't hired because "women aren't physically capable", what does her "choice" have to do with it? The issue is with the people who don't hire/promote, not with the person who might be happy to have the job or the promotion. You seem to be saying something like "If women don't get hired or promoted, isn't it their own darn fault for choosing jobs where they aren't going to be hired or promoted?".


, it goes to show how much of a joke today's feminism is when they are so silent about not having equal numbers in these types of jobs and yet jump up and down about no equal numbers in CEO positions.

Honestly, this makes perfect sense to me. CEO-type jobs have more money, power and prestige than do ditch-diggers; if I have to change societal attitudes in order to better my social and financial standing, I'm going to go for the top, not the bottom. How could you reasonably expect anything different? Particularly since jobs previously dominated by men tend to come with a lot of hostility from the men when women seek to join their ranks - once again, if I'm going to put up with sexual harassment and hostility in an attempt to break social barriers, I'm not going to do so for a poorly paid, dangerous job. (Having said that, I admire cops, firemen, soldiers and others who take on these often poorly paid and dangerous jobs whatever their gender. I personally prefer my safe, poorly paid, office administrative position).

You know, I did look at the article you linked to and I found this tidbit:

99% of auto repair mechanics are men.*

And I have something I believe is relevant.
My daughter applied to take an auto-mechanics course, and she excelled at it. In her particular class, there were 5 girls and 7 boys. My daughter's performance was neck and neck with top-performing male in the class. At the end of the year, only two girls got jobs: my daughter, and one other. All the boys were hired at decent starting wages, in the local community and all have gotten raises. The other girl had to move, but she was able to get a job that paid decently in an area that is desperate for workers. My daughter, who has kids in school and wants to stay in her current community, got a job at an independent garage. After a few months, it became clear that the owner hired her because he believed he didn't have to pay her as much (despite it being illegal) and was simply going to let her go when it came time for the promised raise. He never provided her the paperwork she needs to continue her training, and despite my daughter going to authorities that are supposed to redress these sorts of things, nothing happened. My daughter was able to secure a second job at a chain garage, again at mimimum wage, and again with promises of raises and supporting her ongoing training. Again, nothing has been done - she's still working minimum wage.

So, please explain to me why, in a class of 12 people, 100% of the males got hired, but only 40% of the females? Why is it that while all the men got jobs at "good companies", the girls had to make sacrifices: one had to move, and the other had to take the "crap" jobs? What "choices" did the two women make that meant they'd have a harder time succeeding than the men, even when their performance in school was better? Just why were the males with poorer school performance chosen for more desirable job?

Now, I'm convinced that if she keeps at it, she'll get there - but it's very apparent that a man in the same situation would have an easier time of it than she will. And, I'll also mention that there are industries that are female dominated, where a man trying to break in would face the similar difficulties my daughter faces in trying to become an auto mechanic. However, just like ditch-digging, these jobs tend to be ones that are lower-status/lower paying and thus not so much on the radar for demanding "equality".

Perhaps, when you recognize what happens out in the "real world" when women try to find acceptance in a male-dominated field, you'll begin to understand the issues a little bit better.


Many feminists seem to pick and choose what they want equality in

This statement is a certain sign that you've drunk the kool-aid, in my opinion.


Why is it so odd? What does my profile or my kinks have to do with any of this?

True enough, there's no reason why a budding misogynist can't want to be tied up by the enemy.


Just like bigbadnirish, he's trying to attack me instead of the topic.

Ideally, you could differentiate a simple statement from an actual attack.


the 412 rescue workers who were killed in the 9/11 attacks were…all men. That’s because when you’re caught in raging flood waters, or trapped on the side of a mountain, who is going to risk their life to rescue you? Men.

Oh yeah, a young female first responder was killed a couple of years ago trying to save some people in my area; it isn't just men who die trying to save others. I'm sure it woudn't take much research to find a plethora of other women who've done the same.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 36
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 4:37:59 PM
^^^^^^
"My daughter, who has kids in school and wants to stay in her current community, got a job at an independent garage. After a few months, it became clear that the owner hired her because he believed he didn't have to pay her as much (despite it being illegal) and was simply going to let her go when it came time for the promised raise. "
So you believe that this guy only lies to female employees? Do you really think only women get jacked around?
I have worked as a mechanic for about 35 years, for the last 15 as a diesel truck mechanic for one of the biggest multinational multi-billiondollar companies in the world, and guess what? My supervisor lied to me, the same way that guy lied to your daughter. He made me a promise, then backed away when I wanted the money that went with the increase in responsibilities .I took him up to HR, and we had a series of meetings, and the result? No raise in pay or job title: he lied and they backed him up.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 37
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 4:51:24 PM
I think political correctness goes way too far to the point that it's believed by many that most or all times when a woman or someone from a minority race gets rejected a position, it's sexism or racism, end of story. No proof needed.

Many people don't stop to think that men get rejected and screwed over too. Many people don't stop to think that whites get rejected and screwed over too. Such as life.

One very common form of sexism and racism that many people don't seem to realise is to blame a gender or race for your own failings in life. You see and hear about it everyday. It's the easy option for people instead of looking at all the other factors like, why do men and white people fail?

White males are especially used as a multi-purpose scapegoat for the woes of others.

White American liberals on the far left blindly support this trend. The ones at top encourage this hysteria for political and financial gain.

That said, men are not the only ones who are sexist evil discriminators. Whites are not the only ones who are racist evil discriminators.

But as it seems, plenty of American liberals seem to think so.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 38
view profile
History
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 8:23:43 PM

So you believe that this guy only lies to female employees? Do you really think only women get jacked around?

No, I do not. But I do find it curious that the males were all hired, while only the top two females were hired. It was almost as if the worst male was preferable to the best female available.

I'm not saying my daughter couldn't have done a better job of advocating for herself, but given her situation I can understand why she felt somewhat constrained. I also don't think the bias will prevent her from doing well in her career, it's just that it will be more of a struggle for her than it would be for the average male, since she will be challenging long-held, if nearly invisible, biases against women in this particular industry. She admits that while she believes her coworkers like and appreciate her, she is still subject to sexual harassment that I do not have to put up with in my workplace, and I suspect you do not have to either.
___________________________________________

No proof needed.

From this side, it looks as if there's a certain segment who will refute any proof anyway.


Many people don't stop to think that men get rejected and screwed over too. Many people don't stop to think that whites get rejected and screwed over too. Such as life.

Being part of the 'privileged' group doesn't mean life is a piece of cake, as pointed out by male bloggist "Ampersand" ...
Pointing out that men are privileged in no way denies that bad things happen to men. Being privileged does not mean men are given everything in life for free; being privileged does not mean that men do not work hard, do not suffer. In many cases – from a boy being bullied in school, to a soldier dying in war – the sexist society that maintains male privilege also does great harm to boys and men.

In the end, however, it is men and not women who make the most money; men and not women who dominate the government and the corporate boards; men and not women who dominate virtually all of the most powerful positions of society. And it is women and not men who suffer the most from intimate violence and rape; who are the most likely to be poor; who are, on the whole, given the short end of patriarchy’s stick.

from: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/


That said, men are not the only ones who are sexist evil discriminators. Whites are not the only ones who are racist evil discriminators.

Agreed; women, and I've no doubt other groups, can be their own worst enemies.


But as it seems, plenty of American liberals seem to think so.

I'm Canadian, and like to consider myself more of a humanist than either liberal or conservative.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 39
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 11:11:15 PM

And it is women and not men who suffer the most from intimate violence and rape


Not rape but

http://www.mediaradar.org/research.php#waj


who are the most likely to be poor


But most the lowest paying jobs are held by men.


who are, on the whole, given the short end of patriarchy’s stick.


Patriarchy? What next? Just because Julia Gillard is PM, Australia is a matriarchy?

Time to stop gender blaming and blame individuals for a change.
 Space_Weaver
Joined: 11/27/2012
Msg: 40
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/14/2013 11:51:25 PM
OP. I think one of this nations worst workplace accidents involved women. Try looking up the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire of 1911 in NYC. Over 100 women perished in a high-rise sweatshop. They couldn't escape because their employers locked them in for fear of taking too many breaks. Also you can't discredit the countless wounded female veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, and those that served and died for you. My family has a long lineage in farming in Iowa. Farming is a daunting task that knows no gender barriers. While we may see less women doing manual labor, that doesn't mean all women work in a cozy job.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 41
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/15/2013 3:41:30 AM
Space, I am sympathetic towards these women but my problem is that when males are the victims, it all blows over pretty fast. They are just males after all.

This video may shine some light to the open minded who aren't stuck in politically correct handcuffs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 42
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/15/2013 3:59:17 AM
It's disturbing how truths told that are supportive to men are usually laughed at, dismissed, the messenger is a misogynist, the opinion is not allowed, and so on and on, shows that this male privilege conspiracy is truly false.

95.3% of men felt domestic violence agencies were anti-male...40% reported being accused of perpetrating DV when seeking help at said agencies.

http://wordpress.clarku.edu/dhines/files/2012/01/Douglas-Hines-2011-helpseeking-experiences-of-male-victims.pdf
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 43
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/15/2013 8:56:54 AM
^^^^^^
"It was almost as if the worst male was preferable to the best female available."

Look, the owner may be an A-hole, but let's also assume that he is trying to make money, so wouldn't he hire the people who will help him to make the most money?
Making money in a business has little relation to doing well in a classroom. If that were true, then there would be no unemployed job-seekers with advanced degrees. The garage business is about knocking out the jobs as fast as possible in a competent manner, day after day, month after month. Not much different than any other business, I suppose. It IS true that those having degrees have a higher employment ratio than those without, but classroom prowess still doesn't guarantee anyone of a good paycheck.
Maybe there is some social stigma attached to those who perform a job normally seen in the other sex, and maybe a small business could suffer because of that.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 44
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With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/15/2013 10:15:30 AM

Maybe there is some social stigma attached to those who perform a job normally seen in the other sex, and maybe a small business could suffer because of that.

There is no "Maybe" about it; there is social bias against someone of the "wrong" gender in a job generally considered the other gender's territory. Male nurses face the same type of barriers that female mechanics do. Gender discrimination is a fact of life, for men and women; still, white men are the power-holders within the society, and thus they are the ones who have the most to lose as a society shifts toward more equality for all. Perhaps that's why so many of these types of threads are started by individuals from that elite-white-male group.

For the OP to claim that it's just a bunch of women whinging on and on while filing their nails is simply an attempt at denying there's a problem. Your attempt to belittle/dismiss the fact that 100% of the males were hired, while only 40% of the females were hired is also deliberate blindness. If you cannot or will not see it merely because you have decided to dismiss such claims as "feminists whinging", then you are part of the problem.
 Bogie_Bacall474
Joined: 1/19/2013
Msg: 45
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/15/2013 10:35:33 AM
^^^ Two thumbs up. Seems the only one whining is the OP. Pathetic. Maybe when he has some real life experience he might change...or a wife or daughters.

And I'm thinking that the majority of us who got on the feminist band wagon in our 20's were marching for equality not only for ourselves but our daughters as well as our sons. At least that was my experience.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 46
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With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/15/2013 10:45:10 AM

It's disturbing how truths told that are supportive to men are usually laughed at, dismissed, the messenger is a misogynist, the opinion is not allowed, and so on and on, shows that this male privilege conspiracy is truly false.

Perhaps if the "truths" told didn't also include such words as "whinging", "filing their nails in cozy offices", and such, your "message' wouldn't be so hard to hear.

If you'd wanted to deliver a message that people could hear, you'd have presented it differently.
Example:
Headline: Fewer women found in physically demanding and dangerous jobs
Opening Post: This study, by (expert of some kind) found that X percentage of mining jobs, sawmill jobs, gargage collectors, etc, were held by men. Why do you think that is? Is it a result of gender discrimination? Are men considered more "expendable" than women? What has been your experience?
---------------------
If you invite discussion, and put forth your own views as opinion rather than unassailable statement of truth, avoided all your snide little digs and insults, one could believe you actually had a worthwhile message to deliver. As it is, you just come across as yet another ranting misogynist.

Anyway, I'm done with you. I took a look at your history, and it's obvious you aren't really wanting any kind of rational discussion.
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 47
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/15/2013 10:57:08 AM
95.3% of men felt domestic violence agencies were anti-male...

I think the correct confusion is that domestic violence agencies are actually anti-domestic violence. I can't help it if the overwhelming majority of domestic violence is perpetrated by men.


40% reported being accused of perpetrating DV when seeking help at said agencies.

Yes I've heard this one before. Right after my illustrious ex left bruises all over our daughter's back, shoved our son's face into the cat litter box, then threatened to push me down the stairs, he told me how he knew he needed help and was just getting ready to ask for it. (!) This, of course, was after the police had already paid a visit to arrest him. So ya see I know exactly how domestic violence works as opposed to how some whiny assed bleeding heart quasi-academic paper you found on the internet takes pains to paint abusers like helpless, misunderstood victims. Yeah some of the perps are real good at asking for help but only after the warrant has been filed. So if there's one thing we can say about the 40%, their timing in asking for help is at least 80% bullshit.

40%, cry me a river kid.

You haven't been able to put together a cogent argument since you started this thread. I can see nothing has changed.


Seems the only one whining is the OP.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You bet.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 48
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/15/2013 12:03:13 PM
4’s…don’t leave yet…it’s just getting interesting:


Opening Post: This study, by (expert of some kind) found that X percentage of mining jobs, sawmill jobs, garbage collectors, etc, were held by men. Why do you think that is? Is it a result of gender discrimination? Are men considered more "expendable" than women? What has been your experience?


Nope…OP only alludes to the link..but says:


Sorry to be so blunt but while we have women/feminists sitting in their comfy aircon, safe environments, in their office ghettos, filing their clean precious nails while whining about glass ceilings, equal pay, and how victimised they are. They totally ignore the other side of the story. The life threatening hardships men go through for all of us to survive.

If there aren't as many female CEOs, are people open minded enough to realize it's because on a general basis, women with children choose lifestyle/family choices over career? As explained in studies verified from the US department of labor?


So, a few ppl call him out on misogyny…and he attacks them…I come along and embellish his statement and add entitled nail polishing women…rather than step back a second and make his words more palatable…OP uses my words like they were his:
Post #25

I think it's laughable how you imply it's "misogynistic" for me to just simply mention they are entitled nail filing complainers.

And then it had to be debated that a misogynist had to actually say I hate women to actually be a misogynist…yet, when a man degrades, demeans, and justifies these actions by continually calling women whiner’s “imagining” wage gender discrimination…He’s not a whiny misogynist! I beg to differ.

So, let’s now switch to the links OP’s using…In the OPost he chooses a pretty good article from Warren Farrell…and pretty much follows up in subsequent posts with wife beater (ever wonder where that term comes from?) sites…and UTube (and everyone knows UTube videos have never been cut and spliced to completely change the context)

A list of links:


http://stakedintheheart.com/2012/08/07/do-any-women-work-at-the-dirty-difficult-and-dangerous-jobs-that-men-do-any-women-at-all/
http://www.mediaradar.org/research.php#waj
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A
http://wordpress.clarku.edu/dhines/files/2012/01/Douglas-Hines-2011-helpseeking-experiences-of-male-victims.pdf





95.3% of men felt domestic violence agencies were anti-male


So I looked at your resource site: http://wordpress.clarku.edu/dhines/files/2012/01/Douglas-Hines-2011-helpseeking-experiences-of-male-victims.pdf

And here’s what I found:

33% of the male accusers were arrested compared to just 26% of the women accused…of those arrested 60% of the male accusers were charged with DV compared to 50% of the accused women.

With roughly 33% male accusers being arrested with committing DV and 60% of those arrested were charged with DV…it’s no wonder they felt DV agencies were anti-male.

OP…you’re supposed to use data that proves your POV not mine.


So ya see I know exactly how domestic violence works as opposed to how some whiny assed bleeding heart quasi-academic paper you found on the internet takes pains to paint abusers like helpless, misunderstood victims.


Nope…those were wife beater sites.


There is no "Maybe" about it; there is social bias against someone of the "wrong" gender in a job generally considered the other gender's territory. Male nurses face the same type of barriers that female mechanics do. Gender discrimination is a fact of life, for men and women; still, white men are the power-holders within the society, and thus they are the ones who have the most to lose as a society shifts toward more equality for all. Perhaps that's why so many of these types of threads are started by individuals from that elite-white-male group.


No doubt about it…but that social bias doesn’t just exist at the employee level…it exists at the employer level as well.


 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 49
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With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/15/2013 1:34:37 PM

white men are the power-holders within the society, and thus they are the ones who have the most to lose as a society shifts toward more equality for all . . . individuals from that elite-white-male group


What you euphemistically describe as a shift "toward more equality for all" is, in the U.S. at least, nothing but discrimination against white men. It's standard practice in law schools. Two of my professors told me, in candid moments, how the administrators of the school pressured the faculty to prefer applicants who were neither white nor male. Women are now a solid majority of graduate students generally. Luckily, the Supreme Court and lower federal courts have been drawning the line on the most blatant forms of "reverse" discrimination.

It's not surprising that so many people who resent white men are statist authoritarians who also resent the United States--which was founded by white, capitalist, English-speaking, Protestant men--and all it stands for. It was European communists at the Frankfurt School, well before WWII, who cooked up the doctrine of "political correctness" expressly to suppress opinions that deviated from the party line. Their followers, who popularized this un-American, anti-democratic stratagem in the U.S., calculatedly made it easier for the gullible to swallow by sugar-coating it as being all about being sensitivity and consideration.

It is not. It is about silencing anyone who dares disagree with the tenets of the secular quasi-religion of leftism. The notions of "multiculturalism" and "diversity" are closely related to political correctness and, beneath their veneer of sweetness and light, have the same anti-democratic aim. That's why leftist true believers--who are the leading lights of feminism--like them so well. We saw one of them, the dopey Sandra Fluke, on stage at the Democratic Convention, telling us we should pay for her contraceptives.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 50
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/15/2013 2:19:06 PM
"My daughter applied to take an auto-mechanics course, and she excelled at it. In her particular class, there were 5 girls and 7 boys. My daughter's performance was neck and neck with top-performing male in the class. At the end of the year, only two girls got jobs: my daughter, and one other. All the boys were hired at decent starting wages, in the local community and all have gotten raises. The other girl had to move, but she was able to get a job that paid decently in an area that is desperate for workers. My daughter, who has kids in school and wants to stay in her current community, got a job at an independent garage. After a few months, it became clear that the owner hired her because he believed he didn't have to pay her as much (despite it being illegal) and was simply going to let her go when it came time for the promised raise. He never provided her the paperwork she needs to continue her training, and despite my daughter going to authorities that are supposed to redress these sorts of things, nothing happened. My daughter was able to secure a second job at a chain garage, again at mimimum wage, and again with promises of raises and supporting her ongoing training. Again, nothing has been done - she's still working minimum wage.

So, please explain to me why, in a class of 12 people, 100% of the males got hired, but only 40% of the females? Why is it that while all the men got jobs at "good companies", the girls had to make sacrifices: one had to move, and the other had to take the "crap" jobs? What "choices" did the two women make that meant they'd have a harder time succeeding than the men, even when their performance in school was better? Just why were the males with poorer school performance chosen for more desirable job? "

4ms - let's have another read here.
This is what I see: There were 5 girls that took auto shop class, you only mention 2, your daughter and the girl who moved away. You belittle the other girl, saying that she moved to an area 'desperate for workers", while your daughter is stuck in her minimum wage job. Who is smarter? Don't most people generally follow prosperity? Or is it better to stay put and accept lower economics?
Then you go on to presume that this scenario represents all jobs in all fields in America. That's a mighty big stretch.
If you want people to respect your daughter as a professional mechanic(or whatever), then she has to be seen by others as a competent professional, and in time she will gain the respect of others .
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