Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > Equality with DV victims      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 26
Equality with DV victimsPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

As a female who never had children (and unfortunately has almost run out of time to), how then do you explain the discrimination I've faced? Or are you saying it is a woman's potential to have children that is the issue?


Peony, people from every group fail at climbing the ladder, or getting jobs they want, or getting somewhere in life where they really want to be. THIS HAPPENS TO WHITE MEN ALL THE TIME, everyday! Just like it happens to any other group of people. It's a fact of life. Not everyone can be CEOs, not everyone can get the jobs they really want. People from any gender and race get rejected everyday, every hour, every minute.

I am in no denial that there would be some men/white men out there that will discriminate others who are different. But it bothers me how some women and some people from minority groups use this excuse every single time they fail in getting somewhere they want to be. Plenty of people usually just use men/white men as a scapegoat for their own failings.

There would be plenty of white men out there who have done similar to what you have done through life and not get to where they want to be. Using your same logic, it would be just as ridiculous to say that in all these cases, it's because others are discriminating against them.

As I mentioned earlier, men/white men wouldn't be the only ones who discriminate others.

Another factor, it's not that common to see an asian restaurant where the majority or ALL employees aren't asian. But we may never hear a peep from the leftists do gooders with that one.
 peony-rose
Joined: 9/24/2012
Msg: 27
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 3/18/2013 3:48:26 AM
Oh.... now I get it! Men are just naturally superior. Silly me.
 bela_kiss
Joined: 11/3/2012
Msg: 28
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 3/18/2013 5:52:55 AM
There are two major reasons why there is less support for male victims of domestic violence.

Firstly, and this is more of an underlying societal or cultural thingy, men hold the power in most societies. One of the few problems with holding the power is it's very difficult to show weakness, because with a show of weakness or vulnerability comes a fear of losing the power, so males, as a gender, don't want to see or admit there is weakness in the ranks.

The second, more obvious and visible reason, is because men haven't created any support, no doubt in part at least, because of reason one.

There is a lot more support for female DV victims quite simple because women have created the support, they identified that there was a need for refuges and support networks and then addressed that need.

So the lesson to learn from the women who struggled long and hard to get the support they needed is, if you want something to happen, you've gotta' make it happen.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 29
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 3/18/2013 2:58:33 PM
^^^^^^^^^

Your really here to date, aren't you?
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 30
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 3/18/2013 3:51:40 PM

Firstly, and this is more of an underlying societal or cultural thingy, men hold the power in most societies. One of the few problems with holding the power is it's very difficult to show weakness, because with a show of weakness or vulnerability comes a fear of losing the power, so males, as a gender, don't want to see or admit there is weakness in the ranks.


Sorry to say but that is such a simplistic opinion. As I've mentioned in this thread, people make out that every single male on the planet holds all this super duper magical powers. So tell me bella, what is all this power you are holding or I am holding?

Just because there are truly overprivileged and very powerful men in society, how does this make me all so mighty powerful? Just because I share the same gender as them, how does this make me share all this mighty power?

Secondly, the citations I provided in this thread are about the men who do go out there and share with DV agencies their experiences and yet get discriminated against. So your post makes no sense. How can they be afraid of showing weakness and vulnerability when they are actually going out there and telling the DV agencies what is happening to them?


The second, more obvious and visible reason, is because men haven't created any support, no doubt in part at least, because of reason one.


It's because women's support is government funded while governments aren't willing to do the same for men. How many average men have the money, social power, resources, to create their own services?

If it's so so so easy, wouldn't this be happening all over the place by now? Do you think there is a reason why it isn't happening all over the place due to what I mentioned above?


So the lesson to learn from the women who struggled long and hard to get the support they needed is, if you want something to happen, you've gotta' make it happen.


Funny to say that how female services who are swimming in funds are too greedy, selfish, sexist to share some of the funds they get to help men.

This is in America but this example is a good laugh, in a very disturbing way of course.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/10/25/3885763/christine-vendel-domestic-violence.html

Looks like the DV shelter industry is swimming in funds to the point where they can open a shelter for women and their animals. Are you an abused woman? Do you have Horses? No problem, we will shelter and feed all of you.

Gotta larf!

Meanwhile, abused men live on the streets and have their lives torn to shreds by the government and system they paid into for so long.

Further proof that society considers men to be disposable. If a cat has more social services available to it, what does that say about the state of men in regards to social services? Pay into the system and if you need assistance, go f#ck yourself.

The title of this article should be called...Men banned pets allowed in bigots-only shelter.
 willingone2012
Joined: 10/10/2012
Msg: 31
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 3/18/2013 4:38:28 PM
lets play nice as if we can say something helpful then we all feel better
I question paul as to where he has worked in dv shelters as in canada no male is allowed in the building period since every one of them are for female only
We all have seen or know of females that have been abused lets be honest and yes there are lots that use the system to abuse the male . All i was saying was that if you wish it to change please do something it does not change unless we show why . Dont belittle anyone that is trying to show their point of view that is a form of abuse.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 32
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 3/18/2013 8:00:50 PM


Where is the gender bias in that?


You really want to know?

go to the lifeline website, have a look at the part that offers info on alternative organizations, have a look at mensline, have a look at what is apparently for?
 Paul9473
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 33
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 3/18/2013 8:17:18 PM
OP if you feel so strongly about this then it really is high time you put your money where your mouth is (yes I know that will take a lot of resources) and do something about it as everyone else has already advised.
Move out into the real world where these problems are occurring. I know this will take you away from having a ready source of kinky 80 yr olds on war widow pensions, but sacrifices will need to be made. Open up your home to people (women's shelters were not initially founded on government funding - the government likes to fund pre-existing projects that are already showing results and have proved that they would be able to put the money to good use). Learn how to string a well reasoned argument together that is intended to persuade and is airtight in its objective viewpoint. Your childish name-calling crybabyesque rant on an online dating site is not going to raise any awareness.
Before you start labelling things discriminatory why don't you apply for a $10/hr job in an Asian restaurant/supermarket to test your little theories. We'll see how long it will be before you empty a packet labelled 花椒 or 辣椒 into an unsuspecting customers meal.
Power. You are in the privileged position you are because you are sitting on the top of centuries of discrimination and exploitation that is in your ancestry. To deny it and demand as an inherent right the standard of living that it has brought is to continue it. You may keep on chanting Terra Nullis and try to hold on to your little micro-dominion but the world has moved on and globalisation is going to leave you behind.

@willing1, this wasn't Canada. Official government position is that these people don't exist. But I understand your contention. No it wasn't a direct hands-on role when it came to the women (other family members did that), but rather a support role.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 34
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 3/18/2013 10:07:24 PM
3ffervescent

Thanks for the link. It's refreshing to see such an organisation that seems to be mostly balanced.

That said, I know I may seem petty in saying this but I did spot an inequality on that site straight away. It promotes international women's day but not international men's day. I didn't have a thorough look in the site but I will later when I have more time

But hey, it's better than most sites out there.

Paul9473


about this then it really is high time you put your money where your mouth is (yes I know that will take a lot of resources) and do something about it as everyone else has already advised.


Everyone? No, just you and someone else who seems just as silly as you. Again, you're being unrealistic, which is no surprise reading your other posts in this thread. Me as the average male hasn't got the money, power, resources, to do any of this. I share accommodation in this small two bedroom flat. I call it a shoebox as you can hardly swing a cat in there. It's all I can afford. I would love to have lots of money and help others but it's just not possible and also not possible for the majority of the population. Yeah right, let's invite 10 more people to stay at my place. My god your posts is comedy material. It's silly to keep telling me this when it's something that's basically impossible unless I have 10s of thousands of dollars to spare or had some political power and influence.

Your silly logic seems to indicate that I can hold a magic wand and can make it all change so easily. But wait, if men do call out on it, we are called whiners, misogynists, trolls, slander tactic after slander tactic. Shame shame shame. Damned if men do, damned if they don't.

So it's contradictory in your stance to criticise someone who raises awareness about it and then the next minute tell them to do something about it. Which one is it? Again, you seem confused.

Stop blaming the person who raises awareness about it and blame the people in these DV agencies who are doing the discrimination.


Learn how to string a well reasoned argument together


OMG the irony, you are so terrible at doing this your self. Most of what you said in here is that women have it worse, women need preferential treatment, men are evil rulers so they don't need as much help. Therefore, male victims should be thrown in the back seat.

Wow, you have a very warped sense of logic. Most of what you are saying in here is unrealistic, irrational crap that is beyond laughable.


Power. You are in the privileged position you are because you are sitting on the top of centuries of discrimination and exploitation that is in your ancestry.


Again. more irrational idiocy. Just because my ancestors may have done wrong, how does this make me privileged again? Please explain in logical detail. While you attempt to do so, it will give me another good laugh. You make no logical sense. Oh I get it, just because I share the same skin colour or gender as someone else who is powerful or who is a discriminator, that means I share all the same traits as them. Wow brilliant.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 35
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 3/18/2013 11:24:24 PM
Speaking of privilege

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4281772.html
 bela_kiss
Joined: 11/3/2012
Msg: 36
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/1/2013 4:50:28 AM

Childish it may seem but when it opposes opinions to others, it speaks for it's self. It's impossible to count the amount of times I get attacked for exposing such data. Hopefully not here but in many cases, these types of discussions turn into attacking the messenger instead of the topic.


I wasn't referring to your opinion,nor the information in the link( I hadn't read it) as being childish, it was your opening line that I thought was infantile and antagonistic. It appeared to me that it is a case of the messenger doing the attacking.



It's because women's support is government funded while governments aren't willing to do the same for men.


Yes, this is true, but it wasn't always the case, the first women's refuges in Australia and many other western countries were set up by the victims themselves and run entirely by volunteers, with no funding what so ever.
Once they were established, the need became more visible, and with lobbying by the victims and by sympathetic, pro bono lawyers on their behalf they obtained funding from the government. This is the way many groups gain funding in our country, it may not be the best system but it works...maybe you should try it instead of venting your frustrations in a forum.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 37
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/2/2013 12:00:00 AM

Sometimes I have witnessed how some women conduct their conflict/resolution skills(? read utter lack of) towards their partners and I can see how much they play a part. To be totally honest OP does the same thing. Quick smack on the petulant tanty throwing botty might calm him down, stop him being so aggressive and maybe he might finally start growing up....but meh there are lots of toddler/adults running around, why should he learn anything different, afterall it is probably the only way he gets attention.


Please elaborate this nonsense.

It seems like you are desperately trying to make up things about me out of thin air just to take any old cheap shot at me.

The reason why you are doing this, it seems in your little mind, a male isn't entitled to raise gender issues that affect men...or else, he is this, that, and the thousand other childish slander tactics people come up with when they can't handle a legitimate topic that's too politically incorrect for their liking.


The pathetic excuse of being a mere male with no money should make you feel positive cos mere women with no money have done the same thing.


Absolute BS, it's either women with lots of money who can pull it off or they get government funding. A person with no money, has no power, no resources. What part of this don't you understand?

Pathetic excuse? LOL yeah like I can just wave a magic wand and get 10s of thousands of dollars to set a service up for men.

My goodness, I can't believe how people can be so simplistic.

Here's the funniest part to all of this, you or no one in here is placing any blame AT ALL towards the people who work in these DV agencies who are actually doing the discrimination against men and who are actually causing this problem!

So instead, what do you do? You blame the person who makes a thread about it.

GOTTA LARF!

This same logic is just as pathetic and stupid if I was to tell a woman that's it's all her fault and she should shut up, not say a word, not make a thread about it, not make a post about it, and magically with a wand do something about it, if she simply raised a point about discrimination against women.

So the next time a woman on this forum mentions glass ceilings or pay gaps, she's not allowed to raise the issue, right? If she does, how many people will be making out that it's all her fault because she hasn't got a magic wand to do something about it?

Would zero be the right answer?

Imagine if people blamed the woman who raises these issues and left the men who actually causes the problem out of the picture?

People would be so quick to squeal "misogyny", wouldn't they?

This is why I hate political correctness, it makes others accept and be so blithe with such obvious double standards.


Please note when utterly poverty stricken many years ago with kids to feed I went to the Red Cross for food etc., they factor in if you have a pet because they know most people will feed their animal first and so the Red Cross also provides food for the cat, dog etc regardless of the gender of the owner. In the same vein some women and more especially their children are attached to their pets and along with the trauma of having to go to a refuge, many have been refused entry and many have refused to leave a dangerous situation because of their pets.


Yes, of course, because ya know, pets come before men. Pet's are more important than men. If an organisation has so much spare money, it's better to spend it on pets instead of the other half of the human population.

Yes, I can see so much intelligence in this.
 blueeyes179
Joined: 3/26/2013
Msg: 38
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/2/2013 5:36:09 AM
I am just curious Tie me up81, are you a victim of domestic vilolence yourself?
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 39
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/2/2013 11:46:49 AM

I note you didn't argue with the first paragraph.


Because I rolled my eyes and didn't bother responding to such ignorance that's irrelevant to the topic. But as you are so wanting me to respond, sure.


Men are only needed for maybe at best a 15 min bonk to make a baby after that (possibly a further bonk or so to make sure) they are dispensable to the human race


This is absolutely laughable when looking at all the hard labouring and dangerous jobs men have died and risked their lives for to keep us ALL alive and to take us where we are today.

Here is a prime example.

http://www.warrenfarrell.com/labor_day_art.htm

If men didn't exists, would women have all the high quality infrastructure that we have today? Or would you poor women still be living in caves or straw huts?


Here's the thing, if in the case of female DV refuges with the majority of the women there having been in heterosexual relationships then by the standard powers of deduction I would suggest the social workers etc have not and are not causing the problem but da dah MEN with serious anger management issues.


You mean the men who hurt these women? What about the other men who are victims and have nothing to do with these women?

Oh, just because they share the same gender as them other men with "anger management issues", that means they can't be trusted too? They are evil too?

What does bigotry mean again?

Anyway, I can just imagine if a woman was in this forum complaining about how she's affected by a glass ceiling. Then I was to say, well piss off and make your own business/company, that way you can be the boss. The men who are discriminating you shouldn't be at fault, it's all your fault because you aren't waving a magic wand and getting all this money to make your own business.

I am sure that would go down REEEAAALLL well. I wouldn't be considered a sexist at all. heh heh

Just imagine blacks being discriminated against in DV services, it's not much different than discriminating men. After all, they are human beings too, they deserve equal consideration and support as well as the next human with a different skin colour.

Double standards galore!

There is no point discussing such things with people like you greyingred. Your mind seems to be stuck inside the box. Due to political correctness or your anti male bias, you don't seem capable to think outside the box and look at the whole picture.

The only people who are at fault for why men are discriminated against are simply the people who work in these services that make the act of discrimination. . Not any male who simply makes a thread about it.

Excluding all the generalisations and hyperbole towards this certain issue, like the legit cases where women are truly facing glass ceilings or pay gap, why blame these women? Wouldn't any logical person blame the men who are actually causing the problem? No one in here wouldn't be telling these women to shut up and make their own business, right?
 Paul9473
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 40
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/2/2013 1:52:22 PM
You seem to have some misconceived notion that you are the lone warrior raising awareness fighting against the hordes of the ignorant.
Seriously have a look at all of the above posts and ask yourself ``Have I made a difference in inspiring people to do something to help men in DV or is it backfiring and more likely to increase the DV figure by one strung up OP''?

There is no point discussing such things with people like you...
As you seem to be painting everyone who has a different opinion as you in this manner, why do you see a point in opening your mouth at all?
Have a look at Bellakiss's post again. If you want something done, then that is the path to take. If you're so convinced of your own ineptitude then start getting to work on that magic wand of yours. You'll have more luck with it than your current charismatic winsome manner.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 41
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/2/2013 2:11:51 PM
I guess those who are shooting the messenger, have an inability to think for themselves and need to search for ways out of addressing that fact., rather than address the message. Similar reasons as to why people control others in relationships....
 peony-rose
Joined: 9/24/2012
Msg: 42
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/3/2013 12:15:24 AM
Mr Tie Me Up:

What has lead to you being so wound up and aware of this issue? Have you personally experienced DV? Have you personally been discriminated against by organisations assisting people in this field? Do you have close friends or relatives who have experienced these issues?

If it is such a major issue (as you make it sound) then why are we not hearing about it?

Perhaps your energy would be better used either supporting the people in this predicament, gaining public exposure for them, getting it in the press etc, or better still perhaps you should go and study sociology, social work or psychology at uni. That way you could become constructive instead of simply being critical of women and society. Oh and you might learn a little more about issues of power in society - particularly male/female.

I really do think that perhaps you just enjoy arguing with people regardless of the topic.
 blueeyes179
Joined: 3/26/2013
Msg: 43
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/3/2013 1:57:55 AM
I asked the same question Peony-Rose, but he did not answer me, maybe because my post was too short??
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 44
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/5/2013 1:26:20 AM
I couldn't be bothered going on with more direct replies to the ignorant.

This is how it is, there are a few in here asking me "why should I care"...like this problem is not worth caring about. Does anyone else find this highly disturbing?

It seems just because "worthless" men are on the receiving end of discrimination, people, especially men, aren't expected to care about it at all. We are expected to just turn the other cheek and think "yeah discriminate my gender more and more."... How dare I call it out or say anything about it. Men are expected to shut up and remain silent and deferential.

Here we have society having all this concern for female issues and on the other hand, it's questioned why should we care about a male issue.

I don't understand why people don't find this mindset sickening.

Due to the history of the status of women, this has made political correctness gone way too far.
 blueeyes179
Joined: 3/26/2013
Msg: 45
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/5/2013 1:52:15 AM
Hmmmm As I am not ignorant and you have no idea of my story, you assume that answering a direct question is beneath you, I somehow think your idea of domestic vilolence is your mummy boxing your ears, I was actually genuinely concerned and was going to suggest you contact a counceller or perhaps Beyond Blue.. 1300 224636. good luck
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 46
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/5/2013 1:57:55 AM
blueeyes179

You certainly don't have any concern at all with males being discriminated against in the DV industry, which clearly shows your anti male bigotry.
 blueeyes179
Joined: 3/26/2013
Msg: 47
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/5/2013 7:28:01 AM
OK Tie me up,
you win, I am anti male and on a dating site, makes perfect sence to....... no one, I would say more but as I am too busy laughing at your stupid comment I can't type anymore, I really hope you get the help you so obviously need ,as you do need some, to be straight I think your post was purely to rile up women and to get as many bites as you could, so if your in a thread from now on guarentee it will only to be trying to get a few more bites
 Moon_Rocket
Joined: 4/20/2012
Msg: 48
view profile
History
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/5/2013 4:02:21 PM
Game set and match and the winner is.......Blueeeeeeeeeyes!

(All done in big booming voice and American accent of course)

Well done guys, can we go back to being nice now?
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 49
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/5/2013 7:19:53 PM

I don't understand why people don't find this mindset sickening.


I find it dangerous...

but isn't this issue indicitive of our society.

our policy towards drugs, is reactionary one, we react towards the most obvious target
our policy towards road saftey is exactly the same
so is our policy towards health
towards climate change
towards about everything
including family violence..

We live in a society, where its not we do, its what are seen to be doing that matters..
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 50
Equality with DV victims
Posted: 4/8/2013 3:47:17 PM

guess those who are shooting the messenger, have an inability to think for themselves and need to search for ways out of addressing that fact., rather than address the message.

Maybe, to an extent, (like, I don't agree with how people will often mention the OPs profile content to try to discredit him), but I think there is more to it than that in this case. There are many social issues where I think men suffer disadvantages, and this topic certainly falls into that category. These issues deserve having a spotlight shone on them with the intention of creating positive change. But I don’t think it serves any genuine purpose when they are merely brought up to be used as “weapons in the war against women” and the opening post did set that tone. The impression conveyed is that this is more about resenting women than helping men, and most people can tell the difference between someone who genuinely seeks passionate discourse about a particular subject, and someone who just wants to pick a fight. This OP repeatedly chooses to debate in a manner that favours provocation over promotion. As a result he invites reaction to his tone rather than to the issue. So reall ( and this is the part that I find disappointing) he distracts from the issue, even as he claims to be trying to increase awareness of it. He is but an antagonist in protagonist’s clothing. As such I think he does a disservice to every valid topic he touches.
Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > Equality with DV victims