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 somekinda_wonderful
Joined: 4/21/2012
Msg: 24
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What is average?Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Where the OP is from, his list is valid, I'm a little east and the list is adjusted. I would love to meet an "average " man, but looking at it quite differently ie; watch the news, pot roast for dinner, and tinkering in the garage ~ Maybe its because i'm older but some of the things on the list are just really basic and I wouldn't considering anything else such as "maturity and sense of humour" Rereading the list, except for chubs and education, most all are basics at my age group ... and maybe changing career path to retirement path :)
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 25
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What is average?
Posted: 3/17/2013 1:09:53 PM

Interesting, because I really don't think each characteristic in itself is a big ask really.


Absolutely agree with you. That's the thing about parameter list things, though. It's very common that they end up as "can't have your cake and eat it too" kinds of things. Kind of like trying to find someone who has the empathy that comes from having lived through hard times, AND has the confidence that only comes with never having to have lived through hard times.

By the way, why in the world is it such a big deal to you to work all this out like this? Trying to figure out a formulaic way to judge other guys? I don't understand what makes you so intent on figuring this out. Aren't you here to find a mate for yourself, like most of the rest of us?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 27
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What is average?
Posted: 3/17/2013 6:18:24 PM
Maybe this is really a problem of nomenclature. The word "average" has specific meanings, both mathematically and socially, which the particular things the OP is talking about don't quite match up with.

Rather than "average," we need a word that instead describes something more like a "basic ideal." I would say the OP's list fits that fairly well. It would be an excellent list to describe a basically well-rounded person, who is emotionally and financially ready for a full-scale dating regimen, designed to locate a mate, and build a long term relationship with them.

But average? No way.
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 28
What is average?
Posted: 3/18/2013 4:44:30 AM
From what I can tell, average = unworthy.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 29
What is average?
Posted: 3/18/2013 7:53:37 AM
Gotta agree with Igor - people have an ideal mate they want that fits several of the criteria placed forth - but that is NOT by any means representative of the median level of anyone in here - it's a GOAL, NOT an average.

The balance needs to be struck by realizing that fact - you ain't gonna get everything you want, no matter how deserving you think you are. What parts of that 'average' list needs to stay, and what parts you can fudge the edges a bit makes you much better suited to dating. If you stick to that list, word for word, you're pretty much stuck in the same artificial fantasy world that 'The Bachelor' and 'The Bachelorette' portray on TV. Even on TV, after all the careful screening (and editing) they do for those candidates - they STILL have flaws in personality that show through. Assuming that stuff is all 'AVERAGE' is like assuming the whole world would be better off without any type of insurance - health, life or otherwise. It's foolish.
 bottleguy
Joined: 3/22/2011
Msg: 30
What is average?
Posted: 3/18/2013 10:48:48 AM
An average guy for the area I live is someone who hunts, fishes, goes mudding and loves to talk about their cars. I am none of the above, so average can be geographical too.
 bottleguy
Joined: 3/22/2011
Msg: 32
What is average?
Posted: 3/18/2013 10:55:41 AM
This is me

1) barely surviving
2) not living with parents but wishes he could
3) little bit overweight
4)well educated but no actual degrees
5)no ambition whatsoever
6)sits are home cause I can't afford to do anything
7)will not start a conversation with a woman. once it starts is fine
8)can carry on intelligent conversation, but usually is offensive when doing so
9)can drive but car is falling apart
10)used to be able to write at high level, but not so much anymore
11)very immature
12)has a dry sarcastic sense of humor
13)Have "mommy" issues and few friends
14)Have strong morals and values but is misanthropic
15)has almost no sex drive, except when I do

Now re evaluate what you call average, lol.

mudding is taking a big truck and driving out into the woods through deep mudholes and doing doughnuts or whatever.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 34
What is average?
Posted: 3/18/2013 5:07:50 PM
Mudding is redneck entertainment at it's red-neckiest (is that a word?). Basically it's using some sort of motorized transportation - dirt bike, truck, jeep, 4 wheel atv - driving off-road into some creek bed or bog, and getting as absolutely muddy as humanly possible without drowning (or getting stuck) in it. Once you get stuck, game's over - then the 'fun' of towing it out, giving the driver endless grief, and cleaning it up happens.
 bottleguy
Joined: 3/22/2011
Msg: 35
What is average?
Posted: 3/19/2013 6:31:47 AM
I cannot stand the feeling of mud on me so I never have any intentions of going mudding. I could fish but I don't like it enough to buy a license, and I'm not shooting any cute furry critters so no hunting for this guy. If I wasn't so attached to my dad I would SO be on my way somewhere else.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 36
What is average?
Posted: 3/19/2013 7:39:21 AM

I cannot stand the feeling of mud on me so I never have any intentions of going mudding. I could fish but I don't like it enough to buy a license, and I'm not shooting any cute furry critters so no hunting for this guy. If I wasn't so attached to my dad I would SO be on my way somewhere else.


Guys like you scare me - a lot like the urban princesses that believe every pet should be soft, furry and meow.

The great outdoors is a much bigger and vast place than ANY urban landscape, and I seriously think EVERYone should learn how to get their hands dirty sometime - even if it's just planting some pepper plants in a flower box or something.
 bottleguy
Joined: 3/22/2011
Msg: 37
What is average?
Posted: 3/19/2013 7:50:30 AM
Hey, I'm a nerd what can I say. Anyways, we're getting off topic here . . .
 GreenShadowNymph
Joined: 5/26/2011
Msg: 38
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What is average?
Posted: 3/19/2013 1:58:06 PM

The list as a whole. I'd say possibly 3% possess all those qualities. If it were average, 50% would.

No, it's true that the vast majority of men on this website are below average for the general population. Most men who are above average either do not join this site or don't stay on it very long, thereby lowering the "average" on this site.

Among my friends, family members and acquaintances the majority fit this list. I am currently sitting in a "hang out" area at my university surrounded by attractive frat boys. Most men who send me messages from this site are far below the standard I set for who I will go on a date with at my school, and I'm grateful this website isn't my only option for finding men to date.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 39
What is average?
Posted: 3/19/2013 2:49:28 PM

No, it's true that the vast majority of men on this website are below average for the general population. Most men who are above average either do not join this site or don't stay on it very long, thereby lowering the "average" on this site.

Yeah. Instead of 'average' being 50%, it's 49.9997%.
The demographics in here are NOT terribly different from the general population, people - so stop and seriously think about what it TRULY 50%, and what is 50% of YOUR experiences, because they are NOT always going to be identical.


Most men who send me messages from this site are far below the standard I set for who I will go on a date with at my school, and I'm grateful this website isn't my only option for finding men to date.

Would you dare to compare your 'standards' to the true average 50% of the men in your area? Seriously, people - what you WANT and what is THERE are not going to match! Ever! Either suck it up, change your 'standards', or try another pay site where you can pretend it's better because you pay for it, even though 80% of the SAME PEOPLE are on both sites!
----------------
OK, Time for me to butcher this list...

1) A decent job that allows them to live comfortably, with disposable income
2) Not living with parents (again, some leeway for young students can be given here)
3) Not noticeably overweight or fat
4) Well educated (Preferably consisting of higher education, past high school)
5) Has some tangible life ambitions, like a career path
6) Not a lazy person who just stays at home all the time and has no real hobbies or interests
7) Not socially awkward, extremely shy or has crippling self esteem issues
8) Has the ability to carry an intelligent conversation
9) Can drive
10) Can read and write to a high level, without constant spelling and grammatical mistakes
11) Mature.
12) Good sense of humour
13) Has a good family and friendship base
14) Has strong morals and values
15) Not creepy, or sex driven

OK - Everything in boldface is a subjective decision - meaning it's in the eye of the beholder, and has NOTHING to do with an 'Average'. What people feel is good enough is based on their own backgrounds, morals, attitudes and incomes, there is NOTHING you can do to survey those results and have a numbered 'average' that you can PROVE it fits. They are ALL OPINIONS BASED ON THE OBSERVER, and can vary easily from one person to the next, as well as their prevailing attitude for that day!

I'll use Item #1 - Income - as an example. Even if you pay off ALL your bills each month, what the heck do you mean by a 'comfortable' living, or 'disposable' income? For some, it means....
They don't have to charge an extra tank of gas on their credit card that month.
They don't have to touch that $50K trust fund set up for AFTER graduating.
They can buy groceries without selling blood plasma or half of their clothing.
They can still take the kids to the movies after buying them shoes.
They can afford to fix the car transmission AND the power bill in the same month.
They can still take the kids to Disney World after paying the rent on the Time Share.
They have enough money for a round of drinks, and a round of bowling.
They have enough money for a round of golf after renting the houseboat.

So - what - if ANY -- of that 'disposable income' list above -- is 'Average'?
 dishearteneddave
Joined: 8/8/2012
Msg: 44
What is average?
Posted: 3/29/2013 9:39:03 AM
IgorFrankensteen (msg #2) summed it up best, in my opinion.
The real important thing to recognize is, that it doesn't matter in the least what 'average' does or does not mean. No matter what they may claim, people don't choose others based even on adhering to a set of parameters they have themselves concocted.

Rather, they choose others based on some sort of attraction or desire, and then if pushed to say why they said yes or no, they will come up with something to tell you.


At 43, as a blue collar worker, I met and married a professional lady nine years younger. Her annual salary was double mine. When it was apparent the relationship was taking off I asked her why she was with me.

“You can get a doctor or lawyer or business professional. Why me”, I asked,

Her reply was, “There would be an undercurrent of competition because I make a high salary. Many men base their self-esteem on what money they make and I don’t want that. Money doesn’t have that influence on you. Besides, I fell in love with you.”

While my marriage is less than ideal today it is 17 years later and she claims she still loves me.

Just saying.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 45
What is average?
Posted: 3/29/2013 7:24:14 PM
You're 24, what you think is average won't be the same when you're 30, 45....

There is no average unless your talking about statistics. Personal characteristics don't translate numerically. Average is only relevant when applied to a math problem.
 cesska
Joined: 11/7/2011
Msg: 47
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What is average?
Posted: 3/29/2013 10:24:07 PM
average means nothing
do u think the movie stars look good all the time, no they are average people fixed up, al pacino is not tall, nor rocky
 ARadicalPunk
Joined: 1/27/2010
Msg: 49
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What is average?
Posted: 3/31/2013 2:02:01 AM
This is average? Talk about stream lining achievements. This is considered by some females to be average OP, and is in their profiles? Oh my lord. I personally like this one:

"He has to be able to make me laugh on a daily basis!"

@Skiingfast

Man, that was jaded a hell, and had some anecdotes! But hey, the thread is a little personal right? These women you message, and eventually end up meeting, must be really shallow man. I get expectations and preferences, but this just sounds rough. I have to wonder if you aren't being a little disingenuous. The women are really only cutting you down because of four inches of height? You're a desperate housewives wet dream as far as security goes.

Edit: I have to agree with HelenBackAgain on the part of trying a paid dating site (I almost want to assume you are on a few). Also, how is he intimidating? Do women run from men who are easily 250 plus punds of muscles if that is what they are looking for? Obviously the guy is well off, educated, and well adjusted, and the women who require a education and sizable bank account are going to mark the good-to-go check box off in regards to Skiingfast.

Something is off. :dawns Batman cowl and lurks off into the night to investigate:

Skiingfast, I lived in Germany for 10 years, Baghdad for 6 months, Mexico for the better part of a month, and through out various parts of America, and the mentality, normative, and cultures are just going to be different no matter the gender. This by the way is coming from Anthropological assertion, and only a little bit from anecdote. I durn gotz mu edjamacation!

Sidenote: Try and get a European woman since you seem to travel. Put the American dream to rest.
 ARadicalPunk
Joined: 1/27/2010
Msg: 51
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What is average?
Posted: 3/31/2013 5:07:30 AM

1) A decent job that allows them to live comfortably, with disposable income (if you are under 27 or so, then University, Masters and PHD students too)
2) Not living with parents (again, some leeway for young students can be given here)
3) Not noticeably overweight or fat
4) Well educated (Preferably consisting of higher education, past high school)
5) Has some tangible life ambitions, like a career path
6) Not a lazy person who just stays at home all the time and has no real hobbies or interests
7) Not socially awkward, extremely shy or has crippling self esteem issues
8) Has the ability to carry an intelligent conversation
9) Can drive
10) Can read and write to a high level, without constant spelling and grammatical mistakes
11) Mature.
12) Good sense of humour
13) Has a good family and friendship base
14) Has strong morals and values
15) Not creepy, or sex driven


1) Fair enough, any man or woman can have this expectation, but the moment it becomes the only purview, or an attempt to socially climb the ladder, is when this expectation turns into a negative want.
2) Again fair enough, but depending on the age, economy, or culture this may be the normative, or people could be in a temporary funk, but yet again I can respect this expectation.
3) Fine, but I have to wonder where they draw the line on fat or overweight?
4) If the individual is going to expect an education beyond high-school they better take into account specialty schools, self training, and liberal ideas on education--especially if they are an artsy-fartsy type. I would be very specific on what education level they must have and where they obtained it.
5) This is entirely subjective. People have different ambitions and desires. I need context.
6) Cultures exist in and out of the house. For someone who is a big time gamer in his free time I want to kick this close minded biotch to the moon. I'm very fit, and don't give a good damn about the out doors to the point I want to poor my money into some other azzholes pocket.
7) Fair enough, who doesn't want to be with a well adjusted individual?
8)What exactly is an intelligent conversation? Dissension doesn't correlate to unintelligent, and anyone who starts to preach Christiany is going to look really dumb and hypocritical to me. Subjective again.
9) Okay, in a non third world country maybe. If you live in a city this can get expensive quick.
10) Bias, I want to demand this, but unrealistically America fails its youth time and again, and getting a college education is becoming more and more a demand on everything.
11) No shit, really? Mature? Who comes up with this hogwash? What exactly is morale, ethical, and mature to these individuals? Subjective!
12) Christ, the person would have to know this person personally to know their sense of humor. Subjective again.
13) And if the person has a cruel family they've disowned then what, is that person going to hold it against them through no fault of their own? Shallow! Good friends? What they hell is a good friend to this individual? Subjective!
14) What kind of morals and values are we talking about here? Religious? What Religion? What ethics do they believe?
15) What the hell is exactly creepy? What the hell is too sex driven? I swear humans are the only ones who have a problem with their own sex. If it happens great, and if it doesn't oh well. Get over it all ready. Subjective again!
 ARadicalPunk
Joined: 1/27/2010
Msg: 53
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What is average?
Posted: 4/2/2013 4:00:59 AM
@Skiingfast


In my mind, exceptional at something is better than average at everything.


What colleges seem to forget too!
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 54
What is average?
Posted: 4/2/2013 11:05:15 AM
OP, I agree with what you have in your list... but, considering it's about someone "Average":
#4 - This line is unnecessary. #1 takes care of that -- job, living comfortably, regardless of how much education
#8 - nix "intelligent" -- just "Has the normal ability to carry a conversation"
#9 - Has a car (where average people do have cars)
#10 - Can read & write NORMALLY (no constant spelling/grammatical errors)
#11 - Mature at their age-level
#12-15: Replace "good" and "strong" with "normal-level"

With those modifications I would say that'd make one an "average" catch. But since there are fewer girls to guys online in most areas/age-ranges, a guy has to be more than an average catch to regularly land a real date w/ interest who's in his league.
 Orgulloso
Joined: 8/28/2010
Msg: 56
What is average?
Posted: 4/2/2013 1:58:34 PM
OP,

Firstly I have to state that I despise "lists", IMHO it is one of the things that make dating in general unpleasant.

Secondly I'm surprised no one has taken a different tack on your list.

1). Decent job blah, blah, blah .... I make standard wages for my line of work. But... I live in one of the highest cost centers in the U.S., and because my EX has a 100% commission job I pay the maximum child support for my income bracket. This sort of complicates the entire living "comfortably, with disposable income" factor.

3). Not noticeable overweight or fat. Well I exercise 4-6 times a week, for at least 1 hour and still have a bit of a paunch around my mid section. As you can see from my photos it's not very noticeable but it's there.

4). Well educated. I happen to be an infrastructure engineer for a Fortune 100 company and support several thousand people on an international network. All this with a high school diploma and 30 college credits.

10). I'd like to think I'm articulate in two languages (I also speak, read and write Spanish).

The other 11 points do not apply personally.
 zenithbootleg1975
Joined: 9/30/2012
Msg: 57
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What is average?
Posted: 4/2/2013 4:04:23 PM
I have a few issues with the OP.
1) I would like to know what "above average" means, in relation to your list.
2) Do you honestly believe the MAJORITY of people in the world have all of the attributes on your list? Or are they merely reasonable expectations/ideals you have for the perfect person?
3) Living in a city does NOT mean you are well educated. Every city has homeless and poor people, as well as those better off. Climb out of your ivory tower and look around you ffs!!

I could go on, but I don't think you're listening anyway...
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 59
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What is average?
Posted: 4/3/2013 8:39:43 AM
The idea behind your list is fine, but you didn't take a lot of things into account.

As has been pointed out - this is area-based.

"Average" as a whole in the United States is below many of those aspects because most of the U.S. is fat, a lot is rural or inner city poverty, etc., which brings down the average.

However, if you live in a major city/middle class area, this IS the average.

POF probably represents near the average of the United States, due to its lack of cost, advertising base, and low barrier of entry. And, as such, it's basically useless for someone from a 'city average' like you are mentioning, to find dates on, male or female, just because of the overwhelming numbers of less than that. The complaints you hear are mostly the 1) city/suburb average people getting overwhelmed by the TRUE average, and wondering why they can't find the people they're used to meeting in their particular area, and 2) the TRUE average people wondering why no one pays them attention (because they're competing with "higher" people which are more in-demand). Your concept is framed a bit wrong, but framed correctly, the answer is simple.

I view myself as near - average, but I live in an area where the average person has a degree and makes 80k a year and has gym memberships. And people tend to live around like-people. If I lived in a lower income area, I'd be above average in most attributes.
 Rorschachs_journal86
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 61
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What is average?
Posted: 5/4/2013 11:11:54 AM
On this site Average is about 5'8 400 pounds and rides one of those mobile scooters with an affinity for fast food
 jlynn1955
Joined: 8/24/2012
Msg: 63
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What is average?
Posted: 5/5/2013 7:54:42 PM
I apologize if I am repeating something that's already been said. I'm just skimming right now and have not seen anyone state what to me is the obvious answer. What is average? There is no answer to that because it's totally subjective. Take Stray Cat for example, I could have misinterpreted his post, but if I understood correctly he doesn't think he's even average. I, however, think he's better than average. (See him blushing now....isn't that so cute! Don't you just love a guy who blushes like that!)

Anyway, that's my 2 cents..gotta go now..I've been told I need professional help so I'm auditioning male strippers....
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