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 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 23
Pick on someone your own size turkey!Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)
So Hilly, are you telling me, that i know nothing about the dairy industry when my dad was born and raised on a dairy farm? And you are also telling me when I go to my grandmothers to get milk, the 5 cows she still have, are mistreated unless I am there?
I worked on a small farm and we worked extremely hard on spray free crops. 4 of us worked very hard.. I no longer live or work there but I travel to get good food from good sources..
I cannot save the world, but half arsed judgement are up there with a chip, its intolerance that creates chips in the first place.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 24
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Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 6:18:55 AM

oo that's a little harsh.


My apologies. But you definitely deserved it for the scientists = genocidal remark
The request for a new thread was not a rebuke for the digression, simply an acknowledgement that pursuing it would have entailed a lengthy discussion unrelated to the topic of this thread. I'll be happy to defend the blood-sucking lawyer profession anytime if you change your mind.

The point about the resources required to produce meat compared to grain is a good one. There are lots of sensible arguments to cut back on meat, not just the overtly emotional ethical argument. I actually started reducing my meat consumption after reading the Garnaut report, becuase of the greenhouse gas emissions required for meat production. When I was unemployed for a while after leaving uni, money was tight and it made even more sense to cut down on meat. It was only once I'd already started the process that the ethical issue became apparent, once I'd realised that it really was a choice I was making that I didn't have to.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 25
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 6:53:50 AM

are you telling me, that i know nothing about the dairy industry when my dad was born and raised on a dairy farm

My Dad was a chef....I know jack sh1t about cooking....go figure.
I haven't looked at your profile but im guessing your Dad is in his 70s-80s........farming back then was as it should be.......today it's just bulk, factory production and f*ck the animals.......


are also telling me when I go to my grandmothers to get milk, the 5 cows she still have, are mistreated unless I am there?

One wonders where the 5 calves are though............
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 26
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Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 7:05:38 AM

One wonders where the 5 calves are though............


My parents once had a hippie farm near Newcastle in the 70s and they got a cow for milk. It turned out to be pregnant. If it was a baby cow they would have kept it, but it was a bull. For the time it was there they called it 'Steak' so they didn't get attached to it. True story - no bull
 Moon_Rocket
Joined: 4/20/2012
Msg: 27
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Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 9:44:43 PM

Hardly worth commenting on....but shoulder chips are mighty unattractive.


Chips! that might be the answer! "Let them eat chips!" could be the quote that saves the world (or the animals, sorry) and if we run out, no problems. Hilly's got a couple of bags of fries on her shoulders permanently.

Sigh, no second thought she wouldn't spare any, without them spuds on her shoulders she would have to be....well... nice, and that would never do.
 Moon_Rocket
Joined: 4/20/2012
Msg: 28
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Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/23/2013 3:59:54 AM

the guys that were cruel to the turkeys were passing it down the line, they feel powerless in their world --


Intellegent, insightfull and to the point!


I know what a "Potty Calve" is, and how badly they are treated, before they are slaughtered--
(I will never, ever buy veal)


Great post, you nailed it 3ffervescent!
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 29
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/23/2013 4:24:08 AM

nice, and that would never do.

Strangely the thought of you and your kind being nice to me makes me queasy.......would rather the likes of you dislike me as you obviously do.
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 30
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/23/2013 5:03:02 AM
Sorry Rocket.. chips are now cooked in palm oil. Palm oil is causing villagers to starve as their maize crops are replaced with palm, to support the food industry, bio fuels, clothing and 100% commecial vegetable soaps.
The orangutuangs and countless small species are eradicated.

GM food, strains of this, revolting conditions for fish farms.. all areas of human survival are affected.

I conceed not all poddy calves are hand fed and adored by the small offspring of farmers, like in my world.
But I am responsible for my dietary choices and at my own cost, I pay for ethical or quality whenever possible..
Not everyone es expected, but the awaresness is further highlighted from other posters here.
 Moon_Rocket
Joined: 4/20/2012
Msg: 31
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Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/23/2013 6:36:04 AM
OMG I thought palm oil was ok? Oh fark it's coconut oil I've got! Damn! Ok plan 'B' We boil the chips in water, (distilled of course) after drying them in the sun, no, no, use a parabolic water sun magnifier to heat the bugga's up faster, then chuck in a handful of dried krill for flavour and serve them on a bed of banana leaves with just a smidgen of rotting fish sauce.

God sounds....revolting, but, very sustainable. Big sigh! Everyone happy now?


Strangely the thought of you and your kind being nice to me makes me queasy.......would rather the likes of you dislike me as you obviously do.


Wish granted Hilly, and well deserved!
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 32
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/24/2013 12:19:55 AM

I know what a "Potty Calve" is, and how badly they are treated, before they are slaughtered--
(I will never, ever buy veal)

I don't really understand how that is of any benefit to the Calves involved though....would it not make more sense and be more beneficial to never, ever buy dairy?

I can't seem to find anymore news on the turkey cruelty....I can only hope these people are going to be prosecuted and have lost their jobs.
 bela_kiss
Joined: 11/3/2012
Msg: 33
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/24/2013 1:53:55 AM
Something kind of weird and perverted about drinking the breast milk of another species.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 34
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Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/24/2013 5:17:24 AM
Bella-kiss: When survival is a struggle, food is food. There is nothing strange about that; just ask the chinese why they eat almost anything. The vast wealth, choice and surplus we have now is orders of magnitude greater than anything in history. Almost all of us live better lives than the kings and emperors of old, so bear in mind our good fortune for being born in this age when pondering the barbaric practices we inherited. Also bear in mind that we've got hundreds or even thousands of years of tradition, habit, taste and vested interests to break in order to alter our behaviour. Education and encouragement will bring change in the end... it just takes time.
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 35
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/30/2013 6:02:42 AM
Funny how the industry response to this is that they want tougher penalties for people who film inside their premises and expose their acts of cruelty. Shoot that messenger!



Kind of makes "It tastes good" seem pretty f*cking lame if you ask me.

For those who think any means justifies the end if it tastes good…and that ethics don’t matter as long as the palate is satisfied…then how’s this for a gastronomic experience that will feed the fam-bam and delight the palate….

“…….. firefighters in general do not like to eat roast pork or crackling. The barbaric vernacular word for roasted human in New Guinea and elsewhere was “long pig”; I have never had the relevant degustative experience myself, but it seems that we do, if eaten, taste very much like pigs.”
Christopher Hitchens


Soylent Green made it sound like some kind of bland-tasting health food….but it seems we’re tasty, like bacon. So when we run out land/water to grow all the cereal crops needed to feed all these drugged up health-compromised animals that our fast-multiplying fatty boombah population seems to think it needs to consume at every meal, we will still have plenty of “long pig”. Nom nom nom.

Agree with those who have already said the dairy industry is rife with cruelty. Calving induction is another dairy farming practice that is as callous as all hell. A dairy farmer and and a vet with an equal absence of ethics will inject a cow to cause her to lose her calf early so they can bring their cows into lactation at the same time and get on with milking. In the guidelines it's recommended only for healthy cows, seeing as it's risky to their health. Most of these premmie calves die quickly if you leave them in the paddock, or the more merciful might put them out of their misery with a quick boot to the head. And the grieving cow is dragged away from her dead baby so they can take her milk. (which is then modified so much before hitting someone's cornflakes that they could have just made it artificially to begin with and spared a lot of cows a lot of torture)
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 36
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/31/2013 3:29:55 PM
Hopefully, people watched 60 Minutes last night and now have a real insight into what the likes of Steggles actually do to their animals in the name of profit.
To my way of thinking if you can still happily buy such a product then you must have either no heart, no conscience or no brain....probably all three.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 37
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/31/2013 3:50:44 PM

Education and encouragement will bring change in the end... it just takes time.


I'd like to think so, but with the rate the population is building and the eco systems that supply the food are dwindling.....I can't see that happenning..
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 38
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/31/2013 11:54:50 PM
So we condemn a complete industry for the actions of a few.

I guess that the vegetarians amongst us will cite that going to the vegetarian way of eating is the best and safest way for us too eat.

Would we be trading one unhealthy diet for another?

Have our cereal crops and vegetables beeen Genetically Modified?

The answer to that is yes, these crops are not the same genetically as they once were, they were modified to withstand the Australian soils and to resist pests and viruses.

Wheat has been modified to grow to a certain height to reduce wastage.

Whilst vegetables are high in the minerals and vitamins we need, a lot of these minerals and vitamins cannot be absorbed into our bodies the same way as the same minerals and vitamins can be from meat.

I know a lot of vegetarians who suppliment their intake of vitamens and minerals by taking them in tablet form and these tablets are made by using ingredients that are made artificially.

Not all farm producers are cruel to their animals and since the majority of the popualtion eat meat then as a community shouldn't we all be upset with only those indiviuals and or companies that trangress the law?

Should we also have a witch hunt on fishermen who don't catch seafood in a humane way?
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 39
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 4/1/2013 12:48:01 AM

So we condemn a complete industry for the actions of a few

Sadly it's not a few. And with this....

what the likes of Steggles

I don't think I condemned a "whole industry".......more a whole company...and one of the biggest players in the poultry industry.

I guess that the vegetarians amongst us will cite that going to the vegetarian way of eating is the best and safest way for us too eat.

Most vegetarians don't actually have a problem with the concept of eating meat......they have issues with the cruel way we farm animals these days. I don't think I have ever said that being vege is the healthiest way to eat....but it is certainly the most humane.......but humane doesn't matter to many I guess.

Not all farm producers are cruel to their animals and since the majority of the popualtion eat meat then as a community shouldn't we all be upset with only those indiviuals and or companies that trangress the law?

You mean like Steggles???.......I think we are!

Should we also have a witch hunt on fishermen who don't catch seafood in a humane way?

Humane.....it's one of the reasons why the super trawlers were turned away from our waters and why many people wont eat tuna if it's caught in driftnets that drown dolphins.
It's a genuine welfare issue...not a witch hunt....don't be a drama queen blue...it does not suit you.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 40
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 4/1/2013 2:26:05 AM

So we condemn a complete industry for the actions of a few.


The system is what creates the conditions that companies and individuals then start considering the need to behave in such a way. Change starts at the top?

Greed.


Should we also have a witch hunt on fishermen who don't catch seafood in a humane way?


shark netting beaches, shark cage diving , shark fin cartilage products.

The super trawler issue was very complex. It was never going to get into this country, but our government wanted to introduce marine parks and the right wing aspect of Australia was spoiling for a fight. Gillards gov then let out the super trawler. Gov trolled the super trawler and those that objected to the marine parks.

I spear fish.......
 bela_kiss
Joined: 11/3/2012
Msg: 41
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 4/1/2013 3:45:26 AM
Sorry Ginger, I should have prefaced my statement with; I feel and think that there's....



When survival is a struggle, food is food. There is nothing strange about that


I never said there was anything strange about survival, it wasn't the goal of the practice that I was referring to, it was the practice itself. And yes, I have pondered all the things you mentioned and I do bear in mind the centuries of tradition and habit, and I still think that drinking the breast milk of another species is weird and perverse. I say this as quite a separate issue to the cruelty that is inherent in the process of procuring the milk, in fact I'd say that I think drinking milk is weirder than eating meat.


Almost all of us live better lives than the kings and emperors of old, so bear in mind our good fortune for being born in this age when pondering the barbaric practices we inherited.


Here's something else that's worth bearing in mind;
We also live in an age where our practices are far more barbaric than those of our predecessors.


Education and encouragement will bring change in the end... it just takes time.


I agree that education is one of the greatest tools for change, which is why I like to express my thoughts, as they may give cause for others to think about things that haven't occurred to them. I'm doubtfully as to whether it will bring about the desired change when it comes to this issue though; as Tah said...

“but with the rate the population is building and the eco systems that supply the food are dwindling.....I can't see that happenning..”


To my way of thinking if you can still happily buy such a product then you must have either no heart, no conscience or no brain....probably all three.


I hate to say it Hilly, but you're using faulty logic. I have non of those three and I don't buy such a product.



So we condemn a complete industry for the actions of a few.


No we shouldn't and we won't. However, we could condemn an entire industry for the cruel actions of all those involved in setting up such an industry...an industry where poultry is kept in overcrowded conditions, forced via the use of drugs to mutate and grow more quickly than they would naturally, and then are strung up by their feet on a conveyor belt to be processed. To be quite honest I think the actions of the people in the original video were only marginally more cruel than the practices used in most factory farms. The turkey kickers are merely one of the more unpleasant by-products of a society that creates and condones such a ****ed up way of feeding its people. Stick anyone in a place like that and their ethics in regards to what's cruel and what's not would most likely become blurred.



Whilst vegetables are high in the minerals and vitamins we need, a lot of these minerals and vitamins cannot be absorbed into our bodies the same way as the same minerals and vitamins can be from meat.


You're right, they're not absorbed the same way, they're absorbed a different way. Some plant based minerals and proteins need to be eaten with certain other vitamins to allow the body to absorb them, vitamin c for instance, is necessary for the absorption of plant based iron. This just means that vegans and vegetarians need to have a lot of variety in their diet...sounds like a good thing to me.



I know a lot of vegetarians who suppliment their intake of vitamens and minerals by taking them in tablet form and these tablets are made by using ingredients that are made artificially.


Define 'artificial' ?

I work in a very physically demanding industry most of the guys I work with eat meat and most of them, take vitamin pills, the only one who doesn't is a vegan.


Should we also have a witch hunt on fishermen who don't catch seafood in a humane way?


Yeah!! nothin' like a good witch hunt...so long as we burn them humanely .


What did you have in mind, chooks shaking your hand with a big thankyou for the wonderful treatment on their way to the chopping block? And that's somehow not infinitely more twisted from a philosophical point of view?


Couldn't agree more, made me think of this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4GAuuBbb3w
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 42
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 4/1/2013 3:49:55 AM
I have never been a drama queen and in regards to a super trawler, I have never been a supporter nor am I going to be.

Responsible farming of animals is wholly reliant on individuals and individuals will use methods that they believe to be right for them, not necessary what is right for the industry.

On both sides of the argument there are people who will go to extreme measures and unfortunately some of those measures can and do have serious outcomes.

The use of cages for hens is slowly becoming a minority practice in it's industry but for some a lot slower in the change than some others would want.

Yes I do believe that individuals/ companies who indulge in cruelty to animals should be punished and banned from that industry just as people who willingly contaminate other food sources to prove their point.
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