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 AUTHOR
 HelenBackAgain
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 17
Dating a sub who has a dom other than youPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

Now I'm stuck between a flog and a harsh place...


 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 18
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Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 3/26/2013 9:32:27 AM
OP, unless you have a serious interest in D/s type relationships, I wouldn't go there.


If the idea of being a dominant male to her, repels or befuddles you, I'd say she shall always need another male in her life to meet that need.

Not necessarily; I know several people who've become very deeply immersed in that culture, but then moved away from it into a much more mainstream lifestyle. Even completely vanilla.

POF is a dating site for average people. Dom/Sub is a fringe deviant culture that has plenty of it's own websites for hook-ups and meets but loves to troll POF for fresh innocent meat.

Ewww ... those nasty BDSMrs, out to corrupt the innocents of the world! Honestly, most of the people I knew preferred someone with some experience or at least interest. Trying to 'convert' someone is an exercise in frustration.

They are Dom/Sub but no sex? So how exactly does he dominate her?

There are plenty of ways to dominate someone outside of sex. Maybe he's teaching her proper behavior for being someone's sub/slave of their dreams. Maybe they're Gorean and she needs to learn all the proper kneeling positions (I think there are about a dozen of them). It's a wild and whacky world.

Does she provide him his whack off material?

Maybe he's hers? :)

Or as his slave is she required to show up at 7am on a Sunday and mow his lawn?

Bathrooms and windows need to be cleaned too. :) Usually, in my experience, it's the males who perform household tasks for their Mistress without expectation of sex; the gals might do some stuff in a sex-less relationship, but they seem more likely to be adorned as pretty playthings, and used for target practice (whips, paddles, etc, not bullets!). But there's a huge variation in what people want/enjoy so anything is possible.

as soon as I start to read anything about it I know its not something I want to learn about so am happy to stay that way.

Yup, god forbid anyone learn something new and have their ignorance challenged.

Just because people have knowledge of BDSM doesn't mean they are the crowd. [...] And in this case I have some experience, but I've largely turned away from that world.

+1
 MrqsCarabas
Joined: 2/1/2013
Msg: 19
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 3/26/2013 11:34:29 AM
I appreciate everyone's input so far, but would ask everyone to refrain from negatively impugning another's lifestyle; we're all human, and deserve to go about life how we see fit, as long as it doesn't negatively affect another. Least that's how I see things.
I will update and say that the woman and I are no longer seeing each other; we had a good day between her, I, and her children, but when I chose to ask a few questions to help me understand this lifestyle she'd chosen for herself, she snapped at me, later saying she snapped at me because her Dom was pissed at her. Just seemed to me that you shouldn't take that relationship out on others no matter how it's going, that should be between the two of them. I told her how I felt about her, that I would no longer be contacting her, and that if things changed, she knows how to reach me.
All that said, I'm continuing my knowledge; I don't want to be ignorant. Despite that, it's a large, bewildering alternate reality to me, that I'm having a hard time grasping. I've talked to a few of my coworkers that are active with the culture, and am reading a book called "screw the roses send me thorns", that is helping further my knowledge. Maybe it won't ever be my thing, and maybe I want a vanilla relationship (though I don't know if I like the term Vanilla, it seems disparaging), but I want to at least be informed, open and understanding to others who live their lives this way.
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 20
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 3/26/2013 11:43:50 AM
Good for you. If you like that lifestyle, you should find someone fully available for you. I recommend you talk to the opposite type. If you are a Dom (or curious), talk to subs. You will need to see how THEY 'work'. You should already have an idea what intrigues you.

There are a few very tempting aspects of BDSM leaving me in a twilight zone. And I'm not alone in finding some but not all of 'that world' acceptable for me. If you refrain from labels and pursue your happiness, you may find a perfect partner anywhere. From what I gather, open and direct communication is even more important on the dark side. And the sex is better! ;-)
 HelenBackAgain
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 21
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 3/26/2013 11:53:11 AM
Thanks for the update, MrqsCarabas. Sounds like you have a very good attitude about this... and the more you learn about any area of the human condition in general, the better it'll be for your writing, too, right?

BTW, Neverwhere is my favorite book of all my favorites, and I have a LOT of favorites.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 22
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Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 3/26/2013 12:39:25 PM

Its ok not to learn about some new things. Its ok to be ignorant about some things too. Its also ok to say, thanks, but no thanks Id rather learn about something else.

I'd agree with that, no problem.

But when you say things like:

Do you need this crap?


I do 'healthy' big time. Love, romance, commitment to one person, honesty, uncomplicated, healthy relationships with no hang ups def no pain or chains.

You imply that other people's preferences are "crap" and "unhealthy". Thats ignorant.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 23
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Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 3/26/2013 2:15:17 PM

are ok to call people ignorant

Definition of ignorant: 2.Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy".
You refuse to learn anything about BDSM and D/s relationships, which makes you ignorant about them - yet you still feel qualified to call them "crappy" and "unhealthy".

Have these said people studied and learnt about healthy relationships in order to compare?

I've been in 'regular' relationships, as well as D/s relationships. All relationships are "dysfunctional" to some degree, else we'd never have breakups, or bitter and angry people as a result of breakups, correct? For me, each relationship has had good parts and bad parts, stuff I'd love to experience again and stuff I plan to avoid ever experiencing again.

So yeah, I'd say I've investigated a lot more than you have, and yes I can compare.
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 24
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 3/26/2013 3:17:15 PM

it just means they are ignorant in a sexual deviant thing and ITS OK to be ignorant about that.

In order to assess 'deviant' you have to know what it's about. If the topic does not interest you I would expect you to skip this post, unless you are a soul saver on a mission. Any opinion should be at least somewhat based on a rough knowledge of the topic (beyond flashy headline tidbits).

If I were to ask whether a submissive woman is weak or strong, what would you base your answer on? Do you know what a typical Dom or sub gets out of his chosen position? Or what a sub gets out of orgasm denial? I have yet to hear of a sub who cannot orgasm. Or is the heart of the matter that sex is a dirty subject and should not be enjoyed?

Coincidentally, your choice to remain ignorant is not too different from a sub's choice to be dominated, except that the sub is better informed about her choice. Both deliberately give up something (knowledge/control). Maybe it's something for you after all... ;-)


A healthy relationship allows you to be, think and feel what you want when you want.

If you are on a carnival ride, you cannot move about or leave when you want. Yet some people enjoy those rides. When you are on a plane, you cannot exit halfway or change your destination. Yet people fly. It is perfectly normal that some activities limit your options, but nobody is ever forced to do anything. Unlike the ride and the plane, those deviant activities can be stopped on a dime and despite the looks of it there is no force. I apologize if I took away from somebody's coveted ignorance...
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 25
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 3/26/2013 4:51:45 PM
Well, well, well, watch as the BDSM crowd expose themselves on this thread. POF is a dating site for average people. Dom/Sub is a fringe deviant culture that has plenty of it's own websites for hook-ups and meets but loves to troll POF for fresh innocent meat.


naaaa, can't expose ourselves cuz those type of images would gets us banned, but maybe we could
have little cuffs or a flogger attached to the profile to yanno, single us out, yeah?

the postulating in this thread where pre-conceived ideas of not understanding the interdependent or mutually beneficial relationship between two persons, groups, etc in the kink lifestyle is ignorant, suffice to say, anyone that has
any type of 'fringe' element to their life isn't affected by name calling

since water does find it's own level, it is possible for two kinksters to connect on a vanilla site, which would in turn leave the fresh innocent meat to . .age

OP keep educating yourself, eg: there are other online sites with message boards, blogs and active forums,
people that live the lifestyle who openly talk about; relationships,(poly), dating, marriage, children, etc . .
 Aura1shine
Joined: 3/2/2011
Msg: 26
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 3/27/2013 4:19:44 PM
I gain my knowledge by accident on NETFLIX. May be it help you the OP with knowledge which I was exposed by accident while watch the awarded winner Australian drama on TV series name "Satisfactions". Have to admit that the show by itself provided me with understanding of human behavior when I was a psychology student.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 12/9/2012
Msg: 27
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/17/2013 8:02:56 PM
Subs don't take crap from their Doms just because they happen to be subs. Taking crap from one's partner doesn't make the crap-taker a sub (regardless of gender) - it makes the person someone who is willing to take crap. It has nothing to do with their sexual preferences.
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 28
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/17/2013 8:36:11 PM
^^^ And this is where the BDSM discussion turned to a scat thread. lol
 ShelbySask4friend1
Joined: 2/10/2005
Msg: 29
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/18/2013 4:50:29 AM
The "lifestyle" I would consider is a destructive one...
Wait, this is hypothetical, though it hits close to home, what type of a question is this,lol, and why are people posing their responses to you directly, when it is not real,lol...

I do know a friend and a few acquaintances, that have been hurt in such a lifestyle both physically and emotional, but hey they were obviously asking for it,(the were subs)lol...

I went with my friend, (she is a member(crazy they have memberships or a group)) to an apparent light type of dom and sub get together, locally, with an open mind, not to participate, but she was allowed to bring a guest at her discretion for time to time...I have been to more than a few black and blue ball type events in my glory days, and I was thinking , some spanking, boot licking ,mask/ costumes, and the odd person yelling at the other, would be what I would witness...
It was slightly different than what I did expect, as soon I walked in the door...There was crazy sexy going on every where, blood, lots of blood, on more things than I would care to mention, from whips, clamps, needles, long wooden and plastic poles, to other objects..feces exchanges, urine exchanges, and the normal,lol, dom s giving orders , and subs accepting them...there was about 22 people there...It was a fluid orgy...I got pretty sick in 30 minutes and had to leave, not trying to be rude to my friend,lol, but had to split...

Afterwards I talked to her, I told her I just could not handle it, and apologised for the disappearing act... She said it was not for everyone, and that was not a hardcore type get together,lol... She mentioned almost all members start off slowly but crave more and more "depravity", control, and submissiveness, much like a drug, and she said it is extremely addicting...

In any case, the situation you mention, though non sexual, once the dom snaps his fingers and makes it that way, 9 times out of ten, the sub will follow his instruction/s, it is what subs do, even with "boundaries" set, which boundaries do not hold well in such a setting ...
I think it would be destructive for the person trying to feel out the situation, the sub and the dom...The outside person will get hurt , the sub was already telling the dom about their sexual escapades without him knowing, plus the sub will listen to the dom in most any situation,if he wants to make it sexual in a drop of a button,that is why the sub snapped at him, for her "lifestyle"...The Sub obvious has a hard time forming a relationship with another man... The dom obvious hungers for control, mostly in the form of pain and Degradation, and as that manifests, the hunger grows to dominate at higher levels and break barriers and thresholds, it is the definition of the interaction...
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 30
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/18/2013 6:43:30 AM

OMG!!!! and this isnt classed as abuse. Control, degredation, physical harm.

Shelby gets it, you don't. And the three of us have something in common - it's not for us. I had to walk because I cannot deliver pain and because I realized the danger of addiction (I'd be totally hooked on that). However, classifying this as abuse is like classifying vanilla sex as rape. What you listed are core elements of what some people voluntarily do.


9 times out of ten, the sub will follow his instruction/s

I hope she got punished properly the tenth time.


it is what subs do, even with "boundaries" set, which boundaries do not hold well in such a setting ...

I disagree with that. A sub sets hard limits and a Dom respects that. If that's not the case, THEN it's abuse. However, the sub may have soft limits where the right Dom helps her get past a barrier, in which case it's voluntary again.

Physical (other than the asked-for pain) and emotional abuse can happen in BDSM or in vanilla relationships. But in a good relationship, the sex is much more intense. I liked the non-pain aspects like control, denial, permission and release. Am I a control freak? No, my job is to enhance the sub's experience and bring out the best in her. In return she lets me do my job and I get off on it. Some stuff is a bit degrading, but so is dirty talk which even vanilla women often like.

If people like Shelby and OP decide to turn their backs on it, they do it knowing what parts they don't agree with, but at least I can see some interest and a good amount of information gathering going on. Without that, I could argue that regular sex is dirty and snails shouldn't be eaten. That decision is nothing but a prejudice. Still, nobody forces you to do anything. I'm simply discounting your comments because of it.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 31
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/18/2013 6:59:45 AM
Domination IS a form of sex. It doesn't matter if he stick his d i ck into her. He probably puts things and emotionally plays that role.

I am not into any of that stuff. I like sex. But my sex is with ONE woman. And I want her sex, or her fantasy to be with one man, and as selfish as that may sound that man is ME. End of story.
 m8t
Joined: 3/14/2013
Msg: 32
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/18/2013 7:00:29 AM
I just wanted to add to the above post, cause he is right.
ANY healthy relationship is based on mutual respect, and pleasure as we each define it.
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 33
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/18/2013 8:27:18 AM
Happynewstart, for the record I don't disagree with you or your choice. My comments were largely based on judgment calls about it being 'deviant' or otherwise unhealthy. I've met women who were not happy until they could live their sexual role to the fullest, and they seemed very healthy in all aspects, too. The D/s relationship is easily misunderstood at face value.


I dont have to set hard limits a simple no said once is responded too

Correct, but a 'no' doesn't work for BDSM if for example a rape fantasy is played. Part of the kick is being taken despite saying 'no' (role play), so how does the Dom know when it's real? The answer is a safe word. Something that is not part of the play that really means no. It could be anything and is announced beforehand. It is just as binding as a 'no'. In fact, a vanilla guy may still try to sway you on the first 'no' while a Dom would immediately stop. In some plays where talking is not an option (gagged sub), it could be a key chain in her hand where dropping it means 'no'. It requires a high level of trust and discipline.

Some vanilla people have hard vanilla limits, too. For example, many women don't like anal sex. In the BDSM world you may find that two people literally have a check list of activities to ensure their needs align. I wish vanilla copied that idea...

OP, any updates on how you feel about this topic?
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 34
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/18/2013 12:57:06 PM
Learning about new ways to be intimate is great and I would always encourage that.

The OP had a scenario where a woman wanted him around, but wasnt 'ready' for a realtionship and admitted to being bonded to another man. I read the OP's profile and thought what he is looking for doesnt match up with the lady/situation he described in his OP.

Dont assume that people saying this didnt sound like an ideal situation are blatantly against bdsm or experimenting...or that they are ignorant. BDSM or vanilla...the woman in the OP sounded like a nutjob and the follow up post by the OP confirmed that in my opinion.
 coderedjulia1
Joined: 2/3/2013
Msg: 35
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/18/2013 1:45:11 PM
She is being honest with you. She is not ready for a relationship which means you are allowing her to do pretty much whatever or whoever she wants. It's your decision to make to either allow this, or to move on.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 12/9/2012
Msg: 36
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/18/2013 8:13:23 PM
@Shelby,

I went with my friend, (she is a member(crazy they have memberships or a group)) to an apparent light type of dom and sub get together, locally, with an open mind, not to participate, but she was allowed to bring a guest at her discretion for time to time...I have been to more than a few black and blue ball type events in my glory days, and I was thinking , some spanking, boot licking ,mask/ costumes, and the odd person yelling at the other, would be what I would witness...
It was slightly different than what I did expect, as soon I walked in the door...There was crazy sexy going on every where, blood, lots of blood, on more things than I would care to mention, from whips, clamps, needles, long wooden and plastic poles, to other objects..feces exchanges, urine exchanges, and the normal,lol, dom s giving orders , and subs accepting them...there was about 22 people there...It was a fluid orgy...I got pretty sick in 30 minutes and had to leave, not trying to be rude to my friend,lol, but had to split...


A couple of comments.
First, there are memberships because in most locales, the only way to stay within the local ordinances against sex clubs is to restrict entry to members only, or members and guests, so that Joe Schmo doesn't just wander in off the street unawares.

Second, when I refer to a "public" space here, it means a club, dungeon or other play space such as a rented ballroom or a private house party. "Playing in public" means playing in front of other people who are free to watch if they wish. They are not allowed to make loud comments nor to join in unless invited to do so. "Playing" itself is not the same as "having sex" in the regular sense. You can play with someone and never touch them at all, not even nonsexually.

In most cities, due to the ordinances, there is usually NO sex allowed in the dungeon, unless it's "members only night" when the rules are less restrictive because everyone there is a known entity as a member of the group. Even on those nights, actual sex acts are much, much more rare than one might think or expect. While there are a lot of kinksters who are not monogamous, many play only with their partner - or have sex only with their partner but enjoy playing with others.

You may have attended on a night where "extreme play" was being allowed, such as needle play, where there are heightened safety issues. Believe me, if someone is playing in a "public" space and is not being safe with themselves, their partner or the people around them, they will be made to stop immediately, and made to leave if necessary.

I have never, ever been to or heard of a club that allows feces exchanges in a "public" space. Scat is a hard limit for most folks due to the health risks. It's also rare to have watersports in a club unless there's an area designated for that (because of the mess and the need for quick cleanup).

Whips and clamps are not considered "extreme" and might be used at any given party. Care is taken NOT to harm nor injure anyone. Yes, it hurts. That's the point.

Shelby, it sounds like you went to a party that was NOT "light" at all, but was an "anything goes" event with some extreme players. I am not surprised that you were turned off by it in this case.


In terms of mentally unstable people, addiction prone and violent sociopaths as well as previously abused, broken people....they are everywhere not just in the BDSM communities. As a matter of fact a lot of the screening process that takes place in these communities when new play partners are introduced is to eliminate these types of characters.

Just the way we would eliminate a cheater, or a violent alcoholic, or drug addicted basket case or a user or mentally unstable person in the vanilla world, the same type of screening takes place in BDSM and it is even more careful as shady characters can very readily hide among the players who are SSC.


Agreed. I'd add that from what I have observed over the years, the community polices itself very well. There are psychopaths out there, sure, just as in the larger vanilla world - but they tend to either be loners of their own accord (so no one finds out about them) or loners because they were spotted and shunned by the kinksters. Word does travel. In fact, if I meet someone outside of an event (where it's safe to play because it's being monitored) and they want to play in private, I ask them for references, and provide mine as well.
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 37
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/19/2013 8:56:50 AM

Sorry hun, but.....a rape fantasy, who has rape fantasies?

You'd be surprised. Even in the vanilla world I come across ladies who like that. I haven't fully played out one yet, and there is a significant risk of being accused of real rape. But the mindset is out there.

As for your trust comparison to the raping rapist, keep in mind that these are consensual fantasies. Yes, trust is very important on the dark side. The sub has to know for sure that a safe word is honored immediately while a vanilla girl can say 'no' two or three times before any serious harm is done. And subs aren't coy with safe words, unlike some women who use 'no' playfully. Don't flame me for saying that, some women do.

Scat=Trust me, you don't want to know. It involves feces.
Vanilla=Everything non-BDSM. They look at the different kinks as flavors (like in ice cream) and plain (non-kink) sex as vanilla, probably the most common and most neutral flavor. BDSM folks also engage in vanilla sex, but typically not the other way around.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 38
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Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/19/2013 8:58:22 AM

Well firstly I dont know what Scat means or Vanilla.

Scat means feces, and vanilla refers to people who do not enjoy kink.


I would say theres a big chance of it happening in what has been described in this thread.

If someone *knowingly* consents to certain behaviors, is it abuse? Most people who are involved in D/s relationships aren't tricked into it they way abuse victims are, they go looking for it. It's certainly a line that can be difficult to see from the outside, but so long as the people within the relationship are aware and consenting, I don't know that those on the outside can define it as abuse.


a rape fantasy, who has rape fantasies?

Some people do; even though I was involved in the BDSM world and was considered by some to be a "heavy player", I never did. However, I met people - men and women - who were really turned on by the idea of being "forced", albeit consensually. I know, its hard to wrap one's mind around being 'consensually raped', but it worked for them.


It is interesting how some feel it is ok to degrade/be degraded, dominate or submit, inflict pain, have rape fantasies and yet get offended by the word 'crap'.

It's the context; telling me that my preferences are "crap" when you don't really understand them is a lot more insulting than my dom calling me a ****, or whore during a play session or sex, or inflicting pain till I have an orgasm. Context is everything.


I did actually have to stop laughing, the most honest that you will ever find? I really dont think so.

Most people have a very difficult time opening up about their deepest fantasies because it makes them very vulnerable and subject to rejection, as evidenced by your remarks. The bdsm world makes it safe for such people, and there is also needs to be a tremendous amount of communication before any play takes place. When I first got involved, I had to fill out a 4 page questionnaire that covered my fantasies, interests, and experiences for the first 3 doms I played with. How many people in the n0n-bdsm world do that before hopping into bed?


At what point when you are degrading someone are you respecting them?

Again, it's context. If I, a white woman, called a black person a "", that would be degrading. If other black people called the same person a "", it wouldn't be.


it really isnt something that I would consider but I did find what you put interesting.

It certainly isn't for everybody.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 39
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Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/19/2013 9:45:21 AM

Then why are they opening up on a public forum?

For me, its probably the anonymity that helps. I wouldn't 'open up' like this on FB, for instance, since I have co-workers on my friend's list, nor would I discuss this with people over coffee. In many ways, I tend to be rather open anyway, and compared to some my fantasies weren't really too outrageous.

and if they want acceptance then accept what others do instead of saying BDSM is better.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that BDSM is better; it is different. I am only hoping to clarify somewhat, and appreciate the time you took to read and respond.


sure that the BDSM world is created for a safe place because a lot wont accept it off of the internet either.

I can't tell you how many times a married person has found a bdsm site online and said "I'm afraid to tell my partner about my fantasies, and so I hope to find someone to talk to here". Some of these people try to become involved offline, and are generally told to try to get their partner interested, instead. Many are just too afraid to do so, and they hope to find an outlet through bdsm groups. However, most people don't favor playing with someone who's cheating on their vanilla partner, though it certainly does happen.
 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 40
Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/20/2013 11:04:17 AM
OP

Dude, come on, this woman has issues. She is emotionally intimate with a man that won't F her, and the rest just unravels from there. Look, go find a woman that doesn't have a romantic life that is so complicated and fraught with potential drama of epic proportions. I mean talk about a fricken labyrinth. What the hell are you wasting your time for?
 MS.ICENI
Joined: 2/3/2007
Msg: 41
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Dating a sub who has a dom other than you
Posted: 4/23/2013 11:10:27 AM
I don't know how much research you've done and I personally can't help. However, there's a column called Savage Love that's published every week in an alternative paper (The Pitch) in KC, it's also online. Dan Savage answers many questions regarding just this (and many other) types of lifestyle.
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