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 AUTHOR
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 46
Education and Career... Why ? Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

.in contrast I want one who is familiar with fine arts, other cultures, languages and literature.


well..not necessarily ..there are many university degrees now that are more like a trade school or career college, Computer Science, engineering, medical, dental, nursing, etc.

these people with college degrees may well not have a well-rounded education including exposure to the arts, at all

plenty of people in college are not "really" interested in learning and knowledge..they may only be grade-grubbers who memorize enough to pass exams then forget everything..or people taking a break from reality and having their parents pay for it..delay facing the real world for another 4 or 5 or more years

to wit, the thousands in "journalism school" when there are maybe dozens of actual jobs available for 'journalists' each year, unless you count writing for the weekly shopper at 5 or 10 cents a word. thousands of kids going to teacher's college when there are NO jobs in schools..thousands who have graduated in the past 10 years till do not have fulltime employment in the field
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 47
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/13/2013 8:25:06 PM

well..not necessarily ..there are many university degrees now that are more like a trade school or career college, Computer Science, engineering, medical, dental, nursing, etc.


Most, if not all, universities now require that students in the "hard sciences" and business take humanities courses so that they have a well-rounded education. This came from employers complaining that they couldn't take their science geeks and accountants anywhere because they couldn't carry on a social conversation.
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 48
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/13/2013 8:35:20 PM
^^

I'm guessing that likely a high percentage of people in these programs don't have a "real" interest in those topics and take the course only because they are REQUIRED to take them.. and in many cases do only the minimum necessary to pass the courses, then forget about it

there's no real substitute for genuine enthusiasm & interest
 LatticeMatrix
Joined: 10/9/2012
Msg: 49
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/13/2013 11:09:55 PM
Most, if not all, universities now require that students in the "hard sciences" and business take humanities courses so that they have a well-rounded education. This came from employers complaining that they couldn't take their science geeks and accountants anywhere because they couldn't carry on a social conversation.

^Lies
I've worked for 3 regionally accredited universities over the past 6 years. And neither the one I am at now, which just went through a major academic overhaul due to department of education legislation, nor any of the others require any such thing.

The presumptions here are pompous, seemingly endless, and do little more than create a self serving pat on the back for those who want a cooking for having went to school.
 Single_Dad_Dave
Joined: 4/21/2012
Msg: 50
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/14/2013 5:32:58 AM

The presumptions here are pompous, seemingly endless, and do little more than create a self serving pat on the back for those who want a cooking for having went to school.


No. Not really. I'm 48. I have a law degree. I deal with doctors, engineers, architects, economists, and other professionals on a daily basis. I own a business. I do a lot of negotiating, understanding human dynamics and working on positioning issues, so that we can come up with a win/win situation, even though a lot of my work is a zero sum game. Honestly, I don't have much in common with someone that is nearly 50 years old and a grocery store clerk. They can be the nicest person in the world, we can have a good chat, but in the long run, we won't be compatible.

Intelligence and education are not the same thing. But come on, there does tend to be a connection between the two. Can we honestly say that all the lower intelligence people are going on to get college and graduate degrees, while the highly intelligent work in labor and blue collar jobs, ignoring education? That's downright stupid.

I will say that I've noticed education levels tend to fall along the lines of what you're used to. If you come from a blue collar family, you're more likely to grow up to be blue collar, because that's what you see. If you come from an educated family, you're more likely to be educated. Because that's what you see and there's an expectation there. That cultural expectation has little to do with education.

Mostl of my friends are business owners or are self employed. I didn't plan it that way, it's just who I have more in common with. Doesn't matter the type of business, bar owner, body shop, painter (some friends), but I have more in common with them than people who don't run a business.

Likewise, I have more in common with people with a moderate amount of education, than don't.

When people are young, I cut them a ton of slack. While I have a Juris Doctorate degree, I didn't graduate high school or go to college. I do extremely well on standardized tests and was able to test out of undergrad (except for 3 classes, which I picked up in a summer session of night school). But if someone is in their 40's and hasn't taken at least a few college courses, I can pretty much be certain that we won't have enough in common to date.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 51
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/14/2013 6:24:22 AM
I'm guessing that likely a high percentage of people in these programs don't have a "real" interest in those topics and take the course only because they are REQUIRED to take them.. and in many cases do only the minimum necessary to pass the courses, then forget about it

there's no real substitute for genuine enthusiasm & interest.


Actually they take away quite a bit from these courses. The first and most important is learning how to carry on a discussion on a topic that is not directly related to their field. Youare also assuming that these intelligent people do not become engaged in the topic once they start learning. The university I attended even required all first year business students to take at least one labour studies class so that they had an understanding of the other side of the equation.

And again as intelligent people, they do more than is required of them in order to get the best grade possible, it is a matter of pride for many of them.


^Lies (in references to my statement about liberal arts requirements)
I've worked for 3 regionally accredited universities over the past 6 years. And neither the one I am at now, which just went through a major academic overhaul due to department of education legislation, nor any of the others require any such thing.


And because you have never seen this requirement, it does not exist? I did say most. Now it is true that my experience is with Canadian Universities where liberal arts or humanities courses are required for all science/tech/business students, h3ll even Canadian Colleges require students to take liberal arts elective in order to graduate well rounded students. And just a quick google search shows that Columbia, Cornell and Yale all require their engineering students to take liberal arts courses. So lie? I think not.

The presumptions here are pompous, seemingly endless, and do little more than create a self serving pat on the back for those who want a cooking for having went to school.

So here we go again with the anger toward university graduates. Tell me why someone who is at least as educated as I am is presumptuous or pompus. No I am not looking for a pat on the back or a "cooking", sure you meant cookie, for having gone to school thanks but my career and pay cheque reward me just fine.

Now unlike Billy Joel, I do want clever conversation, I want someone who stimulates me intellectually and with whom I can carry on a conversation about the things that interest me. Someone with a high school or community college education is not likely to have the knowledge to do that.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 12/9/2012
Msg: 52
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/14/2013 9:19:00 AM

Now unlike Billy Joel, I do want clever conversation, I want someone who stimulates me intellectually and with whom I can carry on a conversation about the things that interest me.


I agree with this part 100%, but don't agree with this part:

Someone with a high school or community college education is not likely to have the knowledge to do that.


I keep an open mind towards meeting people with less formal education that I've had. Throughout my life I have met many men and women without much formal education who are quite intellectually stimulating and self-educated. If I had rejected men without formal education, I would never have met my late husband, because "on paper" he had a high school education, yet he had more intelligence, common sense and "people sense" than others I've known with extremely high IQs and multiple graduate degrees. He was entirely self-educated and always seeking to learn more, and could intelligently converse with far more formally-educated people.

It isn't only credentials on paper that make a person truly educated, experienced or intelligent.
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 53
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/14/2013 9:28:41 AM

Juris Doctorate degree


which is really a bachelor's (undergraduate) degree but it was inflated to a "doctorate" to make people feel more important, similar to an "M.D." (really an undergrad degree) or an "MBA" (also undergrad) were some years ago

you don't need a J.B, then a J.M., before getting a "JD" as in most disciplines..similarly, there is no BD, (bachelor of medicine), One can get an "MBA" without a "BBA" or any undergrad degree or one in an unrelated field such as music, dramatic art, etc.

a "JD" is essentially the same as an LL.B. was years ago (bachelor of laws) -there was an LL.M and an LL.D (doctor of laws)

now that the LL.B has been inflated to a J.D. what name is used for the actual doctorate in the subject..and why the need to inflate ? I think a JD could technically be obtained within 5 years of high school grad..not what most people think of when they think of a 'doctorate'
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 54
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/14/2013 9:48:29 AM

I keep an open mind towards meeting people with less formal education that I've had. Throughout my life I have met many men and women without much formal education who are quite intellectually stimulating and self-educated. If I had rejected men without formal education, I would never have met my late husband, because "on paper" he had a high school education, yet he had more intelligence, common sense and "people sense" than others I've known with extremely high IQs and multiple graduate degrees. He was entirely self-educated and always seeking to learn more, and could intelligently converse with far more formally-educated people.


And that is why I said most likely, not isn't or can't. I have kept an open mind, just never had much success with men who did not have more education. I know they exist, both men and women, but just haven't had much luck in finding one the suits me.


which is really a bachelor's (undergraduate) degree but it was inflated to a "doctorate" to make people feel more important, similar to an "M.D." (really an undergrad degree) or an "MBA" (also undergrad) were some years ago/


Actually these are all post-grad degrees, you cannot get one unless you already have a B.A. or BSc. Think there is a serious misunderstand of what post-grand means. BTW, at least in Canada, you cannot get into any of these programs without a 4 year degree and law school is 2 years so you are looking at a minimum of 6 years.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 12/9/2012
Msg: 55
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/14/2013 9:50:37 AM

One can get an "MBA" without a "BBA" or any undergrad degree or one in an unrelated field such as music, dramatic art, etc.


Which b-schools confer an MBA without an undergraduate degree? When I got my MBA, I had to make up the 60 undergraduate business courses that I had never taken because my BA was in studio art. I've never seen an MBA program that doesn't require a bachelor's degree. There are some fast-track MBAs that a person can obtain in 5 years of going to school year-round, full-time without summers off.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 12/9/2012
Msg: 56
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/14/2013 11:38:18 AM
Maybe Canada's EMBA programs are different. Here, the EMBAs are designed for executives who want to get the MBA degree in a shortened timeframe, without having to attend weeknight classes. Usually the classes are held on weekends or even online with a couple of weeks of "residency" required each year at the host b-school, and the students must go through the program within a cohort.

http://www.allbusinessschools.com/business-careers/mba/types-of-mba?utm_medium=sem&utm_source=goo&utm_campaign=gen_mba_abs_gen_pc_sea_eng&cid=11&KTID=1aad3f19-16b2-cd08-2b37-00005facbdca&gclid=CIuc1o_myrYCFQTd4AodgiIA_Q

The GMAT may not be required, but since these programs are desgined for mid- to upper-level managers and executives, one would expect that they already have some type of undergraduate degree.

I don't know who you're arguing with about this:

argue on, my point was you do NOT need an undergrad, bachelors' in the SAME DISCIPLINE as with most disciplines

since I said that my undergraduate degree was not in business but I got an MBA anyway.
 Single_Dad_Dave
Joined: 4/21/2012
Msg: 57
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/14/2013 5:37:51 PM

a "JD" is essentially the same as an LL.B. was years ago (bachelor of laws) -there was an LL.M and an LL.D (doctor of laws)


Whippedboi, you're quoting Canadian degrees and Canadian degree programs.

In the States, you need a Bachelor's degree and law school is 3 years long. That's seven years of college. There has never been an LLB degree in the United States.

But thanks for downgrading my education with the standards and requirements of another country.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 58
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/14/2013 5:42:24 PM
^^^^ He is downgrading the requirements in his own country too. While the admissions requirements do say that you can get in with 2 years of university, the reality is that there are so many applicants that you need a 4 year degree with an 80% or higher average to get in.
 LatticeMatrix
Joined: 10/9/2012
Msg: 59
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/15/2013 10:53:02 AM
The only place you are going to get a graduate degree without finishing your UG is from a non accredited institute.
 Midwest_Southwest
Joined: 9/9/2012
Msg: 60
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/16/2013 5:58:21 PM
What I’m still wondering is why OP is put off by potential mates preferring the same traits he prefers, and has? He never came back.

Does anyone else have an idea why someone might be put off by people wanting the same traits in a mate that they want in a mate?
 Single_Dad_Dave
Joined: 4/21/2012
Msg: 61
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/16/2013 11:31:11 PM

well, whatever, a rose by any other name & all.seems a bit much as a requirement to stand up and lie in court anyway.



probably not a surprise this occurred in law, they are used to twisting words and making them seem like something other than what most people know them to mean


Okay, we get it. You don't like lawyers. Good for you.

What does that have to do with the original post asking people for similar education and careers?

By the way, you seem to be caught up in that there's no 'official undergrad' for a law career. That there is no continuity of study as there might be for engineers, biologists and what not. The law deals with human conflict and conflict resolution. There is no undergrad that helps with that. It's called life. But get hung up on what you want.

Ignore the thread and what I said in my post. Get down with your lawyer hating self.
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/17/2013 1:14:12 PM
I myself don't have any preferences for a woman to have the education or career, but I'd have to say that wanting someone with some kind of formal education and/or a good non-minimum-wage career is not a bad thing. I don't think that it's an unreasonable preference. I would not criticize this across-the-board. These things can go hand-in-hand with lifestyle and character...though of course not automatically. While dating, a person would find out about the lifestyle and character, and if they really were there in the way that you'd want. But education and career are not necessarily bad places to at least start. A person might be great for you, yet not have these things, and you'd still want the education and career to be there so you'd find that person who is great but also has the education and career. That's people's prerogative. That's just the way things go.

Instead of the usual give-my-opinion, agree or disagree, with maybe a little commentary, it might be more interesting (?) to have the context of who I am in these areas to weigh my above opinions against, and I just like to sometimes offer more insight in some of these threads:

I do not have a formal education, and I do not have a brag-worthy or high-paying career. It's not for lack of trying, or lack of my own character though. I've progressed through coming from a disturbed home-front/familial environment...having no resources or support for anything...starting my own business, successfully, and being self-employed full-time for many years...closing that self-employment down to "take a risk" on another interest of mine, and ending up homeless for two years...struggling out of that homelessness until having a relatively good non-specialized blue-collar job and a place to live...(heh, and the whole time looking for my "sweetheart")...

I've always tried to never make excuses, or feel sorry for myself. But, yes, it's hard - I respect some people who have a formal education and/or good career, because it takes hard work, commitment, ambition, etc...but not necessarily - I also know that many people who have these things, do not necessarily have good character. For some, it was pretty easy for them, they don't realize the resources or support they had or truly appreciate where they are in life, and take much of it for granted. Many of the people who have bad character also happen to have the education-and-career. And, for me to have become self-employed successfully means a whole lot more than for someone else who had done this.

Yes, I'm a "wonderful guy". I'm not ill-tempered or abusive. I never had a "confidence" problem. Many people who've known me, including parents, husbands, and wives, have told me that I'd make a wonderful father, and husband. I even had a job where the people genuinely suspected that I was an undercover-boss, because I seemed so "smart" and mature and they wondered "why is he here?" (at that kind of job). Blah blah blah.

But I'm not someone who begrudges wanting a S.O. to have an education-and-career on principle. I don't feel that's necessarily something that can be criticized across-the-board.

Oddly, the preference for education-and-career is often different between men and women - I'd say that I don't care if a woman has this or not, and someone would respond with "of course you don't, because you don't have it either, and as a male you wouldn't mind a woman bringing this stability, or conversely you wouldn't have to be intimidated by a woman who doesn't have it"...but I can only point out that when I was successful in my own business and doing well, I didn't really give a darn, and I never understood or agreed with the issue of someone being intimidated or feeling inadequate based on these things.

I've been heard saying "someone might be better than me" (depending on what we're talking about), but just because of who I happen to be, "there is not one single person on this planet who is too good for me." I like knowing if someone understands what that really means, and what they think my reasons are for saying it.

I don't base my dignity or identity on my job or education (of course, some would incorrectly say that this indicates lack of ambition). Also, I don't automatically like someone who has an education-and-career...I'd want to know things like what their motivations for having them are, what kinds of things about themselves they sacrificed in order to have it, and how do they really derive happiness in this world.

Ok...there're my views...take them how you will.
 sigungq
Joined: 1/4/2013
Msg: 63
view profile
History
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/17/2013 5:19:42 PM
A college degree is not a sure shot at finding intelligence in a person, but it helps (in general). I have an MSEE. That said, one of the most brilliant engineers I ever worked with had no college background what so ever. Yet he had 42 patents to his name, and was one of the top engineers at Compaq computers before they were bought out by DEC. Thomas Edison had an 8th grade education, as did Henry Ford. But the chance of finding someone of high intelligence is still less likely in those who have never attained a degree. I think what people are saying when they are looking for someone who is educated, is that they are trying to up their chances of meeting someone who has a level of intelligence similar to their own. It doesn't mean they will never meet a college educated dummy, nor does it mean they wouldn't find a high school educated genius. It just means the chances of either of those scenarios is less likely.
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 4/17/2013 5:30:27 PM
Heh...if you're in POF and wanting someone with intelligence...not "smarts", or witty conversation talents, or the ability to speak well, but intelligence...just spend some time in science related forums. Or just follow how someone participates in conversation in any forum.
 35brock
Joined: 3/20/2013
Msg: 65
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 8/10/2013 7:15:21 AM
Education is not that important to me. I have dated women with Masters degrees. I have also dated women with just a high school diploma. Higher education level can be useful because it is necessary for some jobs. But I don't think it necessarily means that a person would be more intelligent or compatible with me.
 curviest
Joined: 5/28/2010
Msg: 66
view profile
History
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 8/11/2013 9:13:54 AM
I'm done with brainy men! Too much like hard work --- complicated, argumentative, demanding and unfathomable.

I'll settle for someone who dropped out of school, so long as he has common sense, isn't lazy, and knows how to love.
 35brock
Joined: 3/20/2013
Msg: 67
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 8/11/2013 9:25:54 AM
Education is not that important to me. I have dated women with Masters degrees. I have also dated women with just a high school diploma. Higher education level can be useful because it is necessary for some jobs. But I don't think it necessarily means that a person would be more intelligent or compatible with me.


A few additional points. There are some people with Masters degrees and PhDs that are very knowledgeable about their field. But they don't much about anything outside their field. Or they lack "practical" smarts. Also some ( not ) of them can be elitist, arrogant, and look down on people with a lower education level. I think it's best to look at this on a case by case basis.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 68
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 8/11/2013 9:36:28 AM

intelligence, not shallow archaic attributes like height, weight etc. is what has propelled mankind to the top of the food chain.


You got that partially right. It was intelligence that allowed our ancestors to develop rudimentary weapons and tools for better hunting. But it was those archaic attributes like height, weight etc combined with intelligence that made the hunting successful; otherwise we as a species would have become extinct.


I can agree with that. Ile go further and say conversing with an uneducated person on a daily basis can be somewhere between monotonous and a chore. And uneducated people are far more likely to be confused by the directions on their birth control.


And you, sir, have a very judgemental attitude towards uneducated people without a formal education.
 usmaleagain
Joined: 8/1/2013
Msg: 69
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 8/11/2013 9:52:38 AM
It's a fact of life - money makes the world go 'round. Why don't you get off your lazy boo-boo and do something about. get a job! lol Just make sure they are not a gooddigger and interested ONLY in your money... make sure they actually love you for you.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 70
view profile
History
Education and Career... Why ?
Posted: 8/11/2013 1:51:37 PM
Education is important but technically someone can be self educated. The same books are available to be read by anyone without the often liberal opinions that some professors actually try to sell students.
As for career... I avoid workaholics and I can see why it matters. My old career wasn't for the faint of heart.People can learn a lot about someones available time based on career path.

Usmaleagain.. I assume you mean after they date? Initial attraction can be for many reasons. Being desired for stability, status, money or looks is all similar. No one attractant is actually superior to the other and its all superficial.
All these things can disappear so real qualities are more important( actually you can lose money and gain it back ;))

I see street smarts lacking often. I dealt with people from ALL walks of life and sometimes/often the super educated had no street smarts. I mean like riding the subway in a bad area at 5 am in the morning typing away on an expensive laptop. Are were they just so rich they didn't care?
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