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Joined: 10/18/2012
Msg: 172
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Thatcher is DeadPage 11 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Dave. I read that as chernobyl.
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 175
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 5/3/2013 8:46:59 AM
Will those results follow through to the general election though?

Usual duff statements from the main parties saying they will learn, fight harder and other such tosh.

Interesting comments from a couple of Conservative ex councillors

This Alexis McEvoy, defeated in the South Waterside ward of Hampshire County Council by a UKIP candidate, said: "There is a problem with the people at the top of our political parties. They just don't listen. They don't listen to ordinary people or our concerns.

"The European Union referendum is a good example. David Cameron says he'll have a referendum, but no-one believes a word he says. I don't believe a word he says, and I'm a lifelong Conservative."

Graham Marsh, who lost his Lincolnshire county council seat by 58 votes, urged his Conservative colleagues to eject Mr Cameron as party leader.

"David Cameron has had long enough," Mr Marsh said. "He needs to show firm leadership with the Lib Dems and go to the country if necessary."
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 180
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 5/3/2013 2:52:20 PM
Lightstar - you won't have another female PM ever because in the next 50 years due to immigration and breeding the Muslims will hva taken over this and every country in Europe.
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 182
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 5/3/2013 4:58:57 PM
Mo Mowlam. It's a while back but I emember that I didn't like her, didn't agree with her but had huge respect for her and her integrity. My pp memory is trying to drag out that I think she resigned from cabinet because he disagreed with Blair?

p.s. Frank Fields for President.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 184
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 5/6/2013 6:25:28 AM

I just disagree with you. I found her remarkable in palpable and sustainable achievements and
her character. You have posted before about how she denied her background. For me in that
assertion you couldn't be more wrong. She never shut up about her father, his shop, his civic
work and their Methodist background it informed her politics. How many biographies, friend
or foe, have you read ? Do you like to read widely and have your understanding advanced. Or do
you like to have your existing prejudices or views confirmed each and every time by reading narrowly.

I've been listening to exerpts (sp?) from her authorised biography, on Radio 4. Interesting IMO was the early part. She was a terrible snob, and also did very little to promote other females. She basically 'saw' herself as a man.
She wasn't a very affectionate or good/happy mother either, and preferred to concentrate on her "career", and leave the children with 'nannies'.
Like most people (or tories, anyway ) of her age/time, she romanticised the past, and the days of empire.
She was a firm believer in 'apartheid', describing Nelson Mandela (One of the finest men who ever lived, IMHO) as "a terrorist, basically, she believed that people should "know their place". (Except her!!.
In her later years, her delusions of grandeur were epitomised in her "royal proclamation" of; "we have become a grandmother".
She was a racist, misogynist, reactionary, 'classist' old bigot, without an ounce of compassion, or empathy in her living body. I could probably find more endearing qualities in any Mafia Don.

No mention of the USSR role in ww2. Or, and it's not a popular thing to say, the opinion that war
could have been averted or at least the death of say fifty million lives mitigated. He was no great
strategist. Beloved ? Good orator ? Certainly but perennially wrong. No more so when post world
war 1 he took Britain back on to the gold standard at parity with the classic gold standard, directly
condemning Britain to the poverty of the 1920s. Mention of the general strike.
should give you a reminder of those bleak times. Worse than the 1930s in my opinion and directly
attributable to Winston Churchill. Apropos, Churchill was born in Blenheim palace I think.

In summary, -Churchill was a bit of a cvnt.


It's the moral right of the poor to undercut the rich. That could be us.

I've asked you before what you mean by this...?
It sounds a bit 'abstract' to be of any merit, but I await, with breath all bated.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

Trite BS.

The problem with 'capitalism', is that they really did run out of other people's money, their customers', and had to look to "socialist money", to keep their well-paid jobs, and 'bonuses'...
It's funny how you "free market" types, don't quite know how to 'process' that one simple fact, yet...

So instead, you trot out the "comical" clichés, regarding "the problem with socialism", and all of the comparisons with Stalin, and Mao, as though that somehow "proves" that it can't work.
Meanwhile, you'll wave your own 'union flag', tug your forelocks, and pledge your loyalties, to the head of some tribal, feudal theocracy, ( basically a 'pyramid scheme' for the already wealthy) , and all based on some "purist-inspired", but genetically misplaced notions of 'tribal loyalty', and yet you'll simultaneously bleat-on about "freedom".... as though you've actually got some...
I'll bet you like to think of yourself as a "free thinker" too, amirite..>?

You disappoint me Billy, you appear to have subscribed to some sort stereotype, and believe that somehow equates to something admirable, but instead, it's just tedious, and predictable.

You 'hate' socialism, and yet you've been happy to have benefited from a "socialist" state education, and a "socialist" state-funded National Health service, which, as you grow older, towards your state-funded, "socialist" pension, you will increasingly make use of. Your electricity came from a state-funded infrastructure, as did your water, and gas, and your sewage goes to state-built, "socialist" processing plants, and all of your goods were transported on state-built railways, and roads.
You're only able to read this, because of the state-built, "socialist" telephone network.

Join the dots man!
The wealth of the richest rose by 30% in 2010, during the depths of a "recession", when property prices fell, when share prices fell, when production and GDP FELL.
There's no sign of any sort of "recession", at the top-end of the market, do some research, Mayfair property-prices, Louis Vuitton, Cartier, Roll-Royce, Ferrari...
Try to think it through...

Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 186
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 5/6/2013 9:13:35 AM
I've cut this article because it's far too long although there'sprobably only 2 maybe 3 people following this thread anymore, maybe I should have left it. I hesitate to step in myself knowingthat anything Ipost will be sliced, diced and quoted out of sequence. Still, her we go, this from someone how knows a damned site more than any of us

Margaret Thatcher played a pivotal role in the ending of apartheid in spite of herself. She famously declared the African National Congress to be a "terrorist" organisation, but she gave these "terrorists" diplomatic protection. In the mid 1980s the South African government blew up the ANC offices in London and tried to kidnap its members in London, including Thabo Mbeki and Oliver Tambo. She was obliged to provide armed bodyguards for their most senior officials.

A close aide once told me that she opposed apartheid more on the grounds that it was a sin against economic liberalism rather than a crime against humanity. She also was bitterly against sanctions of any sort (edit).............
Advised by her husband, Dennis, who had business interests in South Africa, she felt that anything that damaged wealth creation must be bad for South Africa. She was also a great admirer of Laurens van der Post, the South African writer and traveller later exposed as a fraud, who also opposed sanctions on the country. He introduced her to Mangosuthu Buthelezi, the Zulu leader, who played an ambivalent role in the struggle against apartheid, splitting from the ANC in 1979 and accepting "homeland" status for Kwazulu. His movement, Inkatha, helped the South African police repress ANC rebellion in the townships.

But in spite of her instincts, Thatcher played a pivotal role in southern Africa. As Britain's new prime minister in 1979 she was persuaded by Commonwealth leaders at their meeting in Lusaka, where she famously danced with President Kenneth Kaunda, to try to end the war in Rhodesia – now Zimbabwe. That led to the Lancaster House conference and an election in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe which was won overwhelmingly by someone she despised – Robert Mugabe.

From that she was persuaded to try to deal with apartheid in South Africa. She began by making two trips to other countries in Africa. In 1988 I followed her to Kenya where she was greeted by the president, Daniel arap Moi, and to Nigeria where she was welcomed by the military dictator, Ibrahim Babangida, to whom she sold tanks.

The following year she visited Mugabe in Zimbabwe, where British troops were training Mozambicans to fight off the South African-backed Renamo movement.

A few years later, a call came through to Downing Street on a Sunday afternoon from a public phone. It was Mugabe. He had come to London privately with his then wife, Sally, who needed regular dialysis for diabetes. He asked if he could come to visit Thatcher. She agreed and on a Sunday evening at Downing Street the two sat and talked informally about the world and life like old friends – she sipping whisky and he water. It was not the only time that happened.

I was briefed off-the-record by her foreign affairs adviser on several occasions, but when he told me that she had called on the then president, PW Botha, to release Nelson Mandela, I found it difficult to believe. I did not report it as I could not source it. But it was true. In a letter to Botha in October 1985 she wrote: "I continue to believe, as I have said to you before, that the release of Nelson Mandela would have more impact than almost any single action you could undertake."

When Botha stepped down after a stroke in 1989, he was replaced by FW de Klerk, who met Thatcher at Downing Street in June. I was among a group of journalists waiting outside No 10 with the promise that he would give a press conference straight after. We watched him leave then ran up Whitehall to the South African embassy where he had promised to speak. He did not turn up. We were told later that he had been too shocked by Thatcher's vehemence.

Mandela was released on 11 February 1990. That evening he made a speech from the balcony of the town hall in Cape Town which was televised, live, world wide. The speech was written by the hard-liners and communists in the ANC and was full of Marxist jargon. "Our resort to the armed struggle in 1960… was a purely defensive action against the violence of apartheid. The factors which necessitated the armed struggle still exist today. We have no option but to continue." Thatcher was appalled. She picked up the telephone to Robin Renwick, the British ambassador in South Africa, and demanded to know why she had ever bothered to battle for Mandela's release if this was the result.

But Mandela felt that at this stage he had to submit himself to party discipline. That was the reason that among the first people he visited after his release was Muammar Gaddafi. And when he came to London, the ANC central committee insisted – against his wishes – that he did not meet Thatcher. After he did finally meet her later that year he thanked her for helping to end apartheid and announced this at a press conference soon after. Senior ANC officials spluttered with rage.

Richard Dowden is the director of the Royal African Society and author of Africa; altered states, ordinary miracles

full article here
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 188
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 5/7/2013 7:10:25 PM
She turned the UK/Britain into a police state...she was a total b1tch and probably thought well of because of her cruel disposition - congratulations to her for spurring on dissent and dissatisfaction and laughing in the face of the electorate...what a fvcking cvnt she was...

quotes from Bobby Sands

am a political prisoner. I am a political prisoner because I am a casualty of a perennial war that is being fought between the oppressed Irish people and an alien, oppressive, unwanted regime that refuses to withdraw from our land.

“Foremost in my tortured mind is the thought that there can never be peace in Ireland until the foreign, oppressive British presence is removed, leaving all the Irish people as a unit to control their own affairs and determine their own destinies as a sovereign people, free in mind and body, separate and distinct physically, culturally and economically." get the gist...she was clearly the inspiration for Angela wotsherface Merkel and a nazi whom Hitler would have been inordinately proud of..she was the personification of evil...bad cess to the horrible b1tch!
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