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Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 96
Thatcher is DeadPage 3 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

Im not into labels or boxes or judging people on what they have,

bit of a contradiction there my friend, you have labeled me (and many others) I assume as 'sunreaders'

which I think to you is an ignorant redneck type- nice box/label, hypocrite. also is being a business owner, property owner and sailing boats in keeping with being part of the "socialist faith" ?4

socialists always say they are 'for everyone- but sooner or later the streets run red with the blood of those they decide are 'wrong' or do not support their 'revolution- in Russia in 1917, all over Eastern Europe, South & central America, Asia, the Khmer Rouge, the North Vietnamese, the Red Chinese, etc, etc.

so Bobby Sands fought for his rights by setting off bombs to kill others, English kids, or whomever. because of course in his arrogant (normal) socialist way he thinks that he gets to decide some lives are worth less & should be 'sacrificed' for 'the cause' ?

hmm in your photos you imply that you own a fairly large sailboat, a house with a large pool, and a private airplane...what makes you think you are "better" than others who do not own these things, "Mr. Socialist" ? what gives you the right, or makes you think you have the right to own these things and travel extensively while others don't have enough food to eat? why not donate more to the less fortunate? you don't "NEED" any of those things but they need food..what kind of socialist ideal are you living , exactly ?

the BS hypocrite kind? maybe a silk stocking socialist, the type I have heard about? all talk, very little action, hmm ? actions speak far louder than words, you know
Joined: 5/21/2008
Msg: 97
view profile
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/10/2013 3:02:38 PM
the thing I'm most curious about, is how so many people know that things would've been better if she didn't make the decisions she made.

I think that's a balanced post.

I ask myself if nationalisation is the correct move in an increasingly more global economy. Unions would have had plenty of scope when so too is the economy “fixed” on the merit of the empire, naval superiority, and off the back of the industrial revolution that UK was largely involved with.

…but in an age of increasing growth of economies other than that of the typically known 1st world countries, would nationalisation be a beneficial thing?

Say if the BRIC’s are undercutting us for labour and materials (as they are and have been) but we have nationalised industry with fixed costs that could only trade overseas at a loss. It is estimated that BRIC economies will overtake G7 economies by 2027

You can’t force other countries to fix their prices for your benefit. What if you say “You will sell this at this price in this currency” but they say “no”.....invade them? Yes if you are America but that’s another subject, and not a solution I agree with!

70% of China’s economy is private sector, which is a large change from what it used to be. My thoughts would be yes we’d end up like a banana republic but without Thatcher we’d be OK because someone else would have done it sooner or later.
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 100
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/10/2013 3:20:39 PM

Some people live in areas where steelworks and profitable steelworks were closed

you know they were 'profitable' ?

is that including accounting tricks. does it include massive governmental subsidies pumped in, or fixed-price captive contracts to other government owned businesses at prices far above market levels?

it just doesn't' make sense that profitable ones would be closed; I bet at least 99% were massive money-losers in real economic terms if you stripped out he subsidies, the captive markets, etc.

we had steel industry in eastern Canada too that were hopelessly un-competitive with other steel mills in central Canada, USA, Japan, etc. people could buy a ton of steel with shipping from Japan or China for far less

the fed. gov. subsidized the plant for many years so people could feel they had a job. each job cost about $150,000 annually of taxpayer funds. they could have fired them all and paid them $80,000/year to sit on their butts at home, for less

so.. I bet virtually all the plants were not competitive in real terms
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 104
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/11/2013 2:09:19 AM
Billy, you aren't talking to yourself but clearly a few on here prefer to stoke up their own prejudices rather than listen to rational discussion. You are quite right about the borrowing, again, again. But what is the solution? I fear there isn't one.

I note that in general the female of the species here are people I would prefer to mix with, they seem to have a much more balanced view of life. The vitriol from some of the blokes is just awful. If you could only step back and see how some of your comments portray you to the wider world you might be appalled.
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 105
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/11/2013 2:23:23 AM

but funding and arming Bin Laden was not one of her Crimes.... that was Ronald Regan.

Pol pot?
apartheid south africa?
Joined: 10/18/2012
Msg: 108
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/11/2013 4:00:21 PM
I think that who ever had got in when she did would have been guided in the same way that she was to the most.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 110
view profile
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:26:34 AM
So the big party in london eh? I have to admit to a wry smile watching the dafties
in glasgow celebrating with champagne. How very socialist.

On another note though if the folk want to dance let them, but can i ask the party
goers will youse try and stop the manky anarchist twats from going on the rampage?
I hope i am wrong but i can see violence erupting, lots of windows smashed (meaning
ordinary workers may not get to earn a wage as businesses close) the old bill attacked
No not THE old bill from here but the robocop ones.

Party goers celebrate if you will but im afraid lots of folk think youse are being tools
and rioters or would be rioters i really hope youse run into some of the football mobs
roaming london on saturday. We will see how you deal with real working class lads.
If its anything like the poll tax riots when the trustafarians ran riot and smashed a pub
windows (how revolutionary) which happened to have a good amount of chelsea headhunters
in it they proceeded to batter the trustafarians all over the street watched by the old bill.

Enjoy your kicking.

Stay safe london folk

Toodle mcpip

Oooo you lucky rioters i just checked the morns football and there are only a few games on. Better thank maggie for
dying when there are not many games
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 113
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/12/2013 1:46:20 PM
I think the way the tories are using her death, and the attempts to beatify her, shows how low Mr Cameraman, and his cronies are prepared to stoop.

It took them 13 years to "air-brush" her memory from the collective consciousness, with barely a mention of her, in an attempt to "de-toxify" the "Con-Party".
Mr cameraman went to great lengths to suppress mentions or references to her, or those days.
"Ironically, it was from Gordon Brown, once he became prime minister in 2007, that Mrs Thatcher received the sort of treatment she might have expected from her own party.

Brown was being mischievous when he publicly invited her to No.10. His aim was to embarrass Cameron, and he succeeded. After this, the Cameron camp suddenly became anxious to stage a similarly warm encounter for the cameras. So she obliged."
(From the daily wail)
She was the greatest prime minister ever, now, apparently.
Yet she was removed from office, by the very same people, who now eulogise her.
I've never seen such a display of abject hypocrisy in my life.

To Mr Cameraman, her death represents nothing but succession of "Photo Opportunities", and guaranteed air-time.

"Rejoice, Rejoice!" she squealed, when over 300 Argentinians lost their lives, in the sinking of the Belgrano.
Did she ask us to "consider the relatives", then...?
NO, she took delight in those deaths.
Those were young men, with their possible lives ahead of them, not frail, old people, full of bitterness and regret, at the way her own people, her own party had treated her.
If they all loved her so much, then why didn't they tell her that, while she was still alive..?

She 'got what was coming' to her.
She got what is coming, for all of us.

But I'm glad I lived long enough, to see her go, before I have to.
And to get the chance to do this:
And this:

Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 116
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/12/2013 3:49:16 PM

Do you remember the mood of the country when B'Liar came in?

do people remember Iraq before he got in there? did the Job thatcher wanted but couldn't...
Joined: 8/24/2011
Msg: 117
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/13/2013 7:38:51 AM
Just been up to the cementary...morbid I know....stood at my granddad and my mums grave....and told them the good news that Thatcher is dead.....left with a big smile...thinking of the party my granddad and my mum will be having....
Joined: 10/18/2012
Msg: 118
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/13/2013 11:19:03 AM
I wonder if Mark Thatcher's antics over the years will now be fully exposed now that his mum's influence is no longer there to protect him?
Joined: 9/22/2010
Msg: 121
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/13/2013 4:35:11 PM
Well it's funny to come on the site after Thatcher has died, and find the usual stacks of hateful garbage against the dead Prime Minister.

"ding dong the witch is dead" Really classy.
It shows about as much class as intelligence.

Thatcher was probably the best post-war Prime Minister the UK has had and this will probably remain the case.
It's a shame she didn't pass any of her spirit on to the losers governing the country now.

In a way, it's a good thing she was so divisive: It meant she actually stood for something, rather than the cowardly consensus seekers that in the end please noone, and leave the country better off. Britain's pride restored, and the grounds were set for several decades of prosperity.

But what does this matter? As long as the pessimistic, pathetic lowlives can add "ding dong the witch is dead" as an answer, and continue moaning about politicians, as well as about their self-chosen, pathetic lives.

"I am not a consensus politician. I'm a conviction politician." - Thatcher
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 124
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/14/2013 3:25:21 AM
and who created margaret Thatcher? Remember the Heath and Callaghan governments being brought down by the trade unions? The 3 day week? A year long miners strike that most miners never wanted and weren't asked about.

As Polly said, there's been 23 years in between. If it all was her fault then the rest have had plenty of time to make the necessary changes and they haven't.

Brown will go down in history as the worst Chancellor and if possible even worse PM this country has ever seen. The cowards in the labour party wouldn't get rid of him because they wanted to keep their own jobs (Jack Staw's autobiography btw).
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 125
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/14/2013 7:43:24 AM

and who created margaret Thatcher?

Ooh! Ooh! I know this.....
I'm pretty sure it was either Gerry Anderson, or Fluck and Law....?

As Polly said, there's been 23 years in between. If it all was her fault then the rest have had plenty of time to make the necessary changes and they haven't.

That's slightly disingenuous IMO Dave.
They can't re-open mines, once closed, they can't re-open the ship-yards, the steel-works, and the state could hardly re-nationalise all of the industries sold-off during Maggie's garage-sale years, nor 're-possess' the properties of people who had once been glad of the social housing, which they availed themselves of, when in their hours of need, but are now voting tory, because they bought their pre-fab cheap.
Nor could they have attempted to put any financial regulations back into place, (like the Glass-Steagall), because they would not only have had the opposition of the tories to this, but also their paymasters, the entire banking and financial services sector, as well, and due to the deliberate running-down of all forms of industry, and manufacturing, the financial sector was now much more important to GDP and taxes.

The reason we are still living with her 'legacy', is that we don't make anything here any more, (except 'arms' apparently...) we now import almost everything.
The reason Germany has a relatively healthy economy now, is that they still make stuff.

There are still lots of "British Companies" , but they choose to get their manufacturing done, where it's cheapest, so that they can make more profits for the board, and the shareholders.
-Which, of course, they won't have to pay tax on, what with being an "international company", and all....
Hence people like Sir Phillip Green, were able to pay himself a £1.2 Billion "dividend" without tax, in just one year, because his wife now "resides in Monaco".

As long as it makes money, anything goes.
Thatcher's 'legacy' was an arms trade, with whoever has got the money to pay; Sadman Hussein, The Shah, the 'Mujahadin, aka The Taliban. ("Come Mr Taliban, Tally me banana! Indeed...)

The Thatcher 'legacy' is greed , selfishness, and dishonesty.

All evident in every painful (to us) moment, of the collapse of the banking system, LIBOR rates,
mis-selling scandals, and the "Phone Hacking Inquiry",
and evident in her own "Al Yamamah Arms deal", and the corruption which instantly made her own son a millionaire.

And these are the very same people, who still fund the Conservatives,
and in who's best interests, "policy" is decided.

The people partying to 'celebrate' her death, are also "Thatcher's Legacy", they're "selfish", they're just glad it's not them.
They're not-so-much celebrating her death, as celebrating their own survival, of her lifetime..

The "witch" might be dead, but this isn't "Oz", it won't all suddenly become technicolour,
because she left us a monochrome world, where money rules everything, and everything is "shades of grey".

The witch might be dead, but we continue to live in the bleak economic mid-winter, which is her true 'legacy'.
-And all done, for her "principles", because she considered Trade Unions to be a socialist conspiracy.
History, IMO., will show her to be a completely delusional idiot.
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 126
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/14/2013 10:26:45 AM

British industry was slowly killing itself way back in the 50's and 60s'. In 1957 if you were old enough and had enough money you could buy a 2 stroke motorcycle which coughed it's way down the road up to 50mph, headlights that relied on a dynamo so didn't work when the engine was off, crappy brakes and owed it's design to pre war thinking. Proudly made in Britain. Or you could buy a Honda with battery, electric start, 4 stroke twin which easily outran the British stuff.

I watched a motorbike race back in the early seventies down at New Brighton. The lads turned up with their race tuned cutdown lightweight Tribsas, Nortons and so on. The local Suzuki dealer turned up with a 600 straight out of the box with headlights, passenger seat, indicators, footrests etc and promptly pissed all over the opposition. It was humiliating and a demonstration of what we all knew - the British product was long in the tooth.

Same for cars. Cars were produced by factories in this country that never bothered to ask the consumer what they wanted. Then the Japanese came along. Car heaters as standard! Radios. Heated rear windscreens. And while the consumer was busy buying the foreign stuff Red Robbo and his lot brought the factories out on strike time after time.

I'm a working class lad brought up on the council estates alongside people involved in these industries. I have an inkling of what I'm talking about.

Read up on the mines. A large percentage of the coal being dug up was exported and sold at a loss of around 25% of cost to produce. Not supportable. Scargill was so sure of support he was not prepared to ask the miners in a ballot about the strike. Where's your blame for that B. he's so working class he's got two homes, one paid for by the long suffering miners until quite recently and a humungous pension - no sense of shame there.

The shipbuilding industry was dead long before Maggie got in. So much of it had already moved to Asia where there had been considerable invetment in new yards, new equipment and new techniques and most importantly where labour was far cheaper.

I was one of the people who in the early 80's went into Rank Xerox to help turn them around after they lost their photocopy patent. For years they had simply made photocopiers and customers got in line to accept whatever was given them. Unfortunately the Japanase had long been waiting for this moment and had the factories already set up to pour new poduct into the west.My job was to help rewrite the systems so the deliverys and factory was more tuned to customer demand. It worked for a while but ultimately led to failure because it was all just too late. I don't think there is any manufacturing left there anymore, it's all been turned into industrial units. Managerial incompetency and laziness at it's best.

I'll agree with much of what you say about Germany but you tend to forget that after the war Britain still had rationing until about 54 or 55 precisely because we were subsidising Germany. It was the Allies who kept Russia quiet not the bloody Eurovision committee. We kept the BAOR there and only now is it being relocated back to the UK. The cost of that has been a huge drainon our finances but it kept Europe safe. In hindsight we should have said bollocks to it because we get little thanks for it.

Whilst Germany received help from America under the Marshal Plan we were left paying billions to the USA, only finished paying that off in about 2000 I think only for good old Gordo to notice the dredit card had been paid off and he had another big line of credit to play with.

I'll also agree that successive governments have relied too much on the banking industry. But don't just blame the Tories. Under the last labour government we lost 50% of manufacturing capability. The figures are there in black and white. That's the bunch of shysters you seem to be defending.

Why couldn't labour have done something to roll back banking reforms if they had really believed in it. What bunch of moral cowards were they. Alongside the bankers giving up a little of their stupidly huge pensions and a gong or two I think the whole labour government should be stripped of their rewards.

Brown thought he did such a good job he wanted to be head of the IMF. What a twat. BTW he is stil being paid £60 plus grand a year but doesn't bother going to Parliament too much. Who else in what walk of life can just take their salary and stay in bed?

Quite right too about when you or someone questions Cameron getting his mortgage paid by us though I believe under the new rules any profit goes back to the taxpayer. But your criticism is all one sided? Where's the criticism of the Millibands who are almost certainly doing the same thing. How about Ed Balls and Yvette Cooper, flipped their homes threee times to get yet more money out of the taxpayer. They should be booted out of the labour party. But it won't happen because there are very few people with moral courage in parliament -I take John Mann and Frank Field out of that statement.

Here's a press cutting from 2009, these are the guys who are still heavy hitters in the labour party who you want to replace the current government.

"Ed Balls and Yvette Cooper, the husband and wife Cabinet ministers, “flipped” the designation of their second home to three different properties within the space of two years.

After being elected to Parliament for the first time in 1997, Miss Cooper, now the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, designated a modest property in her constituency of Castleford, west Yorkshire, as her second home, and began claiming mortgage interest payments on her parliamentary allowances.

In May 2005, after Mr Balls was elected MP for Normanton, Miss Cooper “flipped” her second home to the family house she shared with her husband and their three children in south London. The couple both began claiming a half share of the £1,466 mortgage interest, a sum of £733 each compared with the £530 she had been paying in Yorkshire.

Two years later, in May 2007, the couple moved again, to a larger, £655,000 property in north London which they designated their second home. Their mortgage interest payments increased to just over £1,031 each"

And he's the guy you want to be Chancellor!!!!!!!!!!

As for Green and offshore tax havens in the middle of Europe, it's a no brainer. Green is effectively the owner of those shares, his darling wife was not the one who created nor built the business. It's only lawyers, judges and accountants who can't see this, perhaps if they removed their heads from their arses they might just have enough light to see by. Simply give Green a big tax bill and tell him to pay it. I must admit the greed of the man is breathtaking. He'll save maybe £300 million a year in tax to spend on what exactly.

The tax havens. Tell Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Andorra, Gibralter, Cyprus and all the others around the world to open up their books to our inspectors or face not doing any business with the rest of Europe. That could easily be done. Maybe the Europeans don't like us, I don't know, but I bet if Cameron appealed over the heads of euro politicians to French, German, Dutch voters he would get huge backing. That'ssomething should have happened years ago. I'll bet there's still loads of stolen money and valuables hidden since the second world war and subsequent theft from State Treasuries.

In short. Stop being blinkered and one sided about all of this. Most, not all, but most of those politicians at the top are shysters.

Phew - am going to take a breath now.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 127
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/14/2013 11:30:13 AM
What I object to Dave, (and this is very much a part of Thatchers 'legacy'), is the demonisation of ordinary, hard-working people, who are continually blamed for the demise of manufacturing here.
What you say about the bike industry, is correct.
The same for the car industry. The Austin Maxi was still being built at Cowley, in the mid 70's, and then there was the "Princess"....
The people in production, only build what the company tells them to build.
The problem was with the owners, the shareholders, and the management.
But it's always the workers who get the blame.

When they were massively profitable, they didn't re-invest in plant and machinery, new buildings, or R & D., they spunked it all away, on yachts, and hats, and fast living.

You can say what you like about Yvette Cooper, at least she's got Balls!.

And Tax havens..?
Most of them are "British Protectorates", or some other vestige of colonialism.
"Call-me-lord-david" thinks he was taking his family for a lovely weekend break, at the Angel-Merkin residence, (sp?) to talk about some sort of 'pick'n'mix' EU., but she wants to talk about British-controlled tax-havens!
Whatever he does to the financial sector, and banks, and insurance, or the media, he always has to keep one eye on their donations!
Money talks.
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 129
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/14/2013 3:59:03 PM

At last we've almost come to a real discussion rather than just a rant!

You are possibly right about the demonisation bit but but it could only have been done with the help of Scargill, Red Robbo et al.

Errrm - make a joke about Balls and Copper by all means but why not just agree they are thieving **stards.

I am outspoken and would never make a politician. I've stood up in a pub and told blokes to shove their racism and sexism where the sun don't shine. Did something similar with a client and a builder a few months ago. After they shook hands I advised the client to count their fingers. Never got the job!

Did I differentiate between tax havens? I didn't think so but to be clear they should all be shut down.

Do I differentiate between tax dodgers, false benefit claimants, burglars etc . No. They are all thieves.

Here's something you might like. Limit the amount of expenses allowable to MPs to the same allowance available to benefit claimants - eg mortgage/rent allowance no greater than housing benefit for the equivalent household.

And stop f***ing laughing about Austin Princesses. I bought one of the heaps of junk. Spent more time in the garage than being driven. Ended up being towed to the scrapyard.

Guess why my next and first new car after that was a BMW?
Joined: 4/23/2011
Msg: 130
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/14/2013 10:24:53 PM
^^^^..."And stop f***ing laughing about Austin Princesses. I bought one of the heaps of junk. Spent more time in the garage than being driven. Ended up being towed to the scrapyard. .."

To this day, the princess/ambassador is still the best car i`ve ever owned or driven ( i`ve had 8 ), sure, they were under powered for their size, but a more comfy car i`ve yet to drive, and i`ve driven granada`s, jaguar, most big cars, and they could`nt compare for comfort, so please dont blasphem in my presence mr daver hahahaha :O)
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 131
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/16/2013 11:38:26 AM
I'm not a fan of thatcher or the Tory party but think its wrong for people to give her such a hard time now she's dead, IMHO jimmy Saville and saddam Hussein are more worthy of scorn, she was doing her job, the one she was voted in I believe 3 times to do, she was a cog in a much larger governmental machine. Before the miners start it was far more complicated than thatcher lost their jobs, lets not forget the unions and scargill, the unions obviously were in trouble when the Tories got in and they weren't going out without a fight, oh and let's not forget when you go on strike you are risking losing your job anyway. Having said that though she was a hard case bi*ch and I can't deny people the right to hate her for what her government brought about but if your going to start speaking ill of the dead lets spread the hatred to a few more who are way more deserving. Oh and while I'm at it I dislike in the strongest sense of the word the fact her funeral is being paid for from tax payers money, why can't her family pay for it like the rest of us have to for deceased family members, that and all this bshit concerned with people who weren't even born when she was in power causing problems over it is something I will never really understand and sincerely hope when their family members die they don't get the same treatment they are now doing to thatcher, lets not forget like them or loathe them she has surviving family members who will miss her.
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 132
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/16/2013 11:54:53 AM
Ps. No offence to any miners on the forums but this is how I see it from my limited knowledge of the events.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 133
Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/16/2013 12:44:43 PM
Agree with most of your points Dave.
At the time though, there really WAs a 'press conspiracy', to turn the workers, against.... erm... the workers!
And it was very successful. The unions were crushed.

The end result; last year, director's pay rose by 12%, on average, worker's pay, by just 1%. Inflation is currently about 3%.
It's been like that since the 'banking crisis'/bankruptcy of the banks.

That's because *altogether now* "We're all in this together"....*
(* It's just that some are more deeply "in it", than others. Terms and conditions apply)

I see that "minimum wage is going up, by 12p/hour, in October.
2/3 of the people claiming benefits, are working.

The state pays them, because they can't survive on their wages, they mostly work for massively profitable, private companies. I'm fairly sure that the directors of those companies, won't be on minumum wage, they will instead, have a tax cut, because, apparently, the "very best people" need such incentives.

The unions have been defeated, now we have the state subsidising poverty wages, and private profits instead.
I don't see that as progress, for anyone but the very smallest percentage of people, at the top of society.

I feel that since Thatcher, innequality and poverty and permanent unemployment have increased.
I don't think our society is better with such polarisation.

Assuming that there is at least some correlation, between status, and intelligence, (well they at least get the best education, that money can buy) I would hope that the wealthiest realise this, and do something about it, voluntarily.
Before it's too late.
I think they've pushed the masses too far, this time.

Guess why my next and first new car after that was a BMW?

I used to go to Germany a bit, (late 80's/early90's ), and the odd thing was, the two blokes who worked at the company that I used to visit, were both keen car enthusiasts, one had been a former-pro, and they both 'marshaled' at rallies etc.
Anyhoo, I was gobsmacked to discover that they (and presumably many other Germans too..?) had a very high opinion of Rover cars, regarding them to be "high-class, quality imports", (sound familiar..?) and they were quite disdainful about Merc, Audi, BMW etc.regarding them with the same contempt with which we viewed rover's products.
In their opinion, merc's were "good taxis".
Presumably, this had some bearing on their eventual decision to own the mini, which is still made here, on the former BL site, but now, made for BMW.
My Dad's first car was a 1957 Morris Oxford.
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 135
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/16/2013 3:23:22 PM

You keep taking such a narrow view, to blame everything on Maggie as though nothing happened before or after her.

The greed of directors of public companies is breathtaking. The same excuse is used for MP's salaries - we need to pay the best to get the best. Cut their salaries in half and you would still have the same number of applicants.

No government has tackled this greed. Not one.

David Milliband bless his cotton socks has gone off to use his skills to help the world be a better place. The idea that a salary of £500,000 taken from a charity doesn't seem to have entered his socialist head as being not quite the form.

I'm only trying to get you to understand that they are pretty much all unthinking sleazebags.

Let's take another useless waste of molecules as an example. The greatest welsh socialist of all time, Lord Kinnock. (oh how I laugh when these guys Mandelson, Prescott and Kinnock insist on being called lord) never elected by the public, ends up in Europe presiding over a very corrupt regime, his Mrs and son in law end up in the same place, trousers an MP's pension, leader of the opposition pension, EU pension and House of Lords income. What has he ever added to the value of this country (for balance add Patten, Hong Kong, EU and Lords too for no discernible reason other than a political one to get him out of the way).

JV we are singing off the same hymn sheet here. But your ears are so fimly shut to reason.

I remember a few years ago the approbation re a CD/laptop??? being lost with the names and addresses of 20 million people who were receiving benefits. The newspapers and MPs were up in arms about this loss. I saw the real problem as being so many people receiving benefits.

Governments have succesively stepped in to try and make it easier for people to be in work, to support those "hard working families" (stuff us hard working singles).

The aim is just. The reality is that every action has an equal but unexpected reaction.

I did a stint as an HGV lorry driver about ten years ago. Seemed a good idea at the time. Rate of pay £8 per hour. If I was to go back the rate of pay is the same. Why? Because the number of foreign drivers (mainly Polish hereabouts) has increased hugely. These are young guys with families whose wages are topped up with benefits. A chap with children on benefits and a job in such circumstances has an effective hourly rate of pay closer to £15.

I did a stint on the binwagons. One of the loaders was in a panic becaue he had been told he had to work a Saturday to make up for the non-collections on a bank holiday. those extra few hours would see him losing a number of benefits including free dentistry as I remember. A huge disincentive to work.

Welshduck might be able to help with his experience here.

Every time the government steps in it skews the market. Oops - not a nice word. But that's the reality of the world we live in.

Take a very simple example. Housing. Argue all you like about the council house sell off but the effect on the housing stock totals was zilch, nothing, de nada, nowt.

The cost of renting though went up simply because the government has been prepared to step in and pay the market rental rate. Which is pure bollocks. Any company in the same powerful position would have been looking at negotiating huge discounts. And anyone with ahlf a brain would long ago have put a limit on the amount claimable. Why didn't the government make those simple steps?

The only mistake in the council house sell off was to not reinvest he proceeds in new housing stock. I can't remember why nor how that happened.

I'm only bothering with all of this JV because one day I will make you understand that the mass destruction of the Dinosaurs was not Maggies fault.
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 136
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/17/2013 12:05:49 AM
Surely that's because the poor sit their expecting money to fall in their hands and the rich are out there coming up with ideas to make money fall into their hands, really, as much as I hate what the conservatives stand for when you sit back and think about it you can't blame them. Ps. I'm being a bit general there, some poo families do try and deserve to do better than they are but some families or members thereof are lazy slackers who think the world owes them a favour, it doesn't, they need to get off their backsides and stop feeling sorry for themselves, get a job and work for their money instead of sitting there waiting for handout day to come then start whining on about how their dole money isn't as much as next doors polish family get for working their bollocks off. Do people think things have changed much since the Middle Ages in this country because they haven't, we all still belong to the lords of the land paying our tithes to them and basically, like it or not, being their ****es it's just that there are more smoke and mirrors now obscuring the true vision of reality (and too many whining pitch fork wielding hairy backed plebeians)
Joined: 2/3/2013
Msg: 137
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/17/2013 2:01:13 AM

If we're going to turn our great nation around, we're all of us, going to have to shoulder more responsibility to help in that turnaround, and make our political representatives work for us.

You are right THC but .....
In the words of The Drums...."I don't care about nothing, I just wanna go surfing....."

Too many have this attitude towards politics and the current economic situation and it doesn't just extend to our young uns.
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 139
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Thatcher is Dead
Posted: 4/17/2013 2:50:45 AM
Mr Happy - absolutely.

Nick - everyone has the right to be stupid but you abuse the privilege.
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