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 AUTHOR
 AquanGold
Joined: 11/22/2010
Msg: 26
Pre-qualifiying quality menPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Op,
Yes, that pretty much sums up what every man is seeking. 3 strikes and you`re out,huh?
If we don`t receive intercourse by the 3rd date, we`re going,going gone!
I truly wonder how a mature woman like you actually believes what she`s saying. After all, we feed you, bought you drinks, maybe took you out dancing, a show and now its your turn to ante up! After all isn`t that what we`re all here for?!
As a man, seeking to find someone,not a One night Stand, i find your commentary pretty vile.
I often wonder what a woman thinks when a man is attempting to form a relationship your opinion pretty much sums it all up..Sorry..
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 27
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 11:50:20 AM
Well, I might be a POS for wanting to find out about sexual compatibility in less than 6 weeks (without drawing an arbitrary line at making out). And much like you I'm also upfront about it.

But this POS also declined two dates on the grounds that I'm seeing somebody for nearly two weeks (only two dates yet) and wanting to focus on one person at a time while others prefer dating concurrently.

This POS is for the most part consistent and polite in the forums, if sometimes a bit harsh. Most of my harsher statements are in retaliation to somebody else's harsh words.

This POS has never made a date bad or uncomfortable for the woman. I dare you to have anybody report a dating horror story about me.

This POS represents himself as accurately as possible in words and pics in hopes of finding the right one.

So other than disagreeing on our m.o. in dating, what makes me a POS?

Edit:
Where did you get the lying from and that misrepresentation to 25+ women? I don't even think I messaged 25 women since I joined. You quoted me, so I guess you are talking about me... (msg 31)

Another edit (msg 39):
Ok, I feel better now. :-)
 A_Intersect_B
Joined: 3/11/2013
Msg: 28
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 11:53:54 AM
It's really funny in a way. I know three other guys who are on this website that actually have this kind of attitude. If the woman isn't putting out they will pretty much tell them off.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 29
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:01:25 PM

I’d send a generic cut and paste message to about 100 girls. Over the next 24 hours, I’d collect about 15 – 25 phone numbers. I’d start every week with at least 15 girls (usually 20-25) that I wanted to meet up with me. This made me way less needy and certainly gave me a lot of options. Needless to say, my 30 or 40 approaches went really well.


I look at this effort and seriously wonder if this loser ever came up for air. Way less needy? Good Lord, the most I've EVER messaged in a week is maybe 20 - and if I had e-conversations with even three at a time I'd get confused.

I also seriously wonder what this dude considers 'Hot' f*kbuddies - I assume someone with a pulse would make them 'Hot' enough - makes you wonder if there was any 'Cold' dates, too....
 AquanGold
Joined: 11/22/2010
Msg: 30
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:03:46 PM
Wolftxusa,
Could you envision a woman, actually paying for let`s say 2-3 dates, much less not want anything in return?

I find the Op`s opinion hard to believe...
Suddenly, all men on this site are looking to score and will leave after 3 dates if they don`t get their way. Interesting, huh?
What happened to consent? It does take two to tango, the last time i checked...
If, i`m taking someone out, the first date is to try to find a commonality and hopefully, if we click go out again go further and have fun!
I like taking someone out for dinner and drinks, because its more comfortable. I expect nothing in return. if the person wants to kiss, make out or do whatever, i`m not forcing the issue..
On the second date, i enjoy going out to a comedy club or dancing, again, its so we both enjoy ourselves. Never any pressure...Its called mutual respect.

I`m really trying to figure why the OP is demeaning men in general, who are seeking a quality GF...
Very Sad..
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 31
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:13:01 PM
I'm sure there are quite a few POF Members of both genders who are not honest in their profiles

if you want to argue that more men are dishonest, so be it. more males lying does not make the lying females "more honest" in any way.

they might *in general* be dishonest about different things..(though there will be overlap).. quite a few women explicitly state they are NOT looking for someone to pay their way , support them, or be a dad for their kids, when in fact that may well be what they want. some guys also want someone to support them, more or less, or be a new mommy to their kids (but may say otherwise)

many men want quick sex but state otherwise. some women also want NSA sex, but due to social pressure may state otherwise.

basically I think many people lie, just like in the real (off-line) world (well, more really because it is easier here) ..not even counting the more 'minor/'white' lies of fake/old misleading photos, false info about AGE, height, body shape, pastimes, hobbies, interests, income levels, career, etc.

how many people present themselves as active, athletic when in reality they are couch potatoes, more or less. the most 'active' thing they do is to press the remote control and watch wide world of sports on TV. ?

women (and some guys) who present as BAVs (born again virgins ) who are in reality DTF on the 1st or 2nd date ?

I'm also convinced there are a number of females who have multiple profiles on here at the same time -probably about the same as the number of males who do that too
 In_Gratitude
Joined: 4/1/2013
Msg: 32
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:13:05 PM
Thank you all for your insight. I had not expected so much emotion as I meant "no judgements or generalizations" in my question. Let me add some clarification to a few points that must be digested as a whole and restate my question:

My question is purely about the general characteristics of POF male population on average. I was looking for an opinion from women regarding their experience as a whole with regards to the timing expectation for sex from the POF population of men who are seeking a relationship. (Men can not comment unless you have actually dated men from POF)

Not saying that A is better than B
so....If men who want relationships and believe that relationships take time for all aspects to develop = A
If men who want relationships and want to prequalify via sex within the first few dates = B

So ladies - On average is POF full of more A or B men?

My personal points of consideration:
With regard to the semantic arguments around the word quality - quality is not always a synonym for good or bad. Quality is essentially the properties and essential nature of something. I state that I am looking for a relationship - which to me would mean a man who possesses the necessary skills to build and maintain a long-term satisfying relationship which I base on the following:

A) I agree that sexual satisfaction is associated with relationship satisfaction and stability. It is scientifically proven that sexual satisfaction had stronger links with relationship satisfaction for men than for women, so there is nothing wrong with men or women seeking to satisfy their curiosity regarding sexual compatibility - in fact it is essential

B) Although there are always exceptions to every situation - multiple scientific studies have proven that overall relationship longevity and satisfaction has a direct correlation to the time a couple takes to get to know one another and the delay of pair bonding via sex.

So, specifically for me - a man who has the qualities for building a long-term satisfying relationship = a man who wants sex but wants to explore the whole picture beyond 3 dates before introducing sex.
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 33
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:18:41 PM

I was looking for an opinion from women regarding their experience as a whole with regards to the timing expectation for sex from the POF population of men who are seeking a relationship. (Men can not comment unless you have actually dated men from POF)


and you cannot by the site rules address questions only to one gender or dictate who "may" respond to your OP- you do not 'own' or control any thread whether you start it or not


Free site full of mouth breathers who do not understand female sexuality.


yes, because we all know that 100% of each gender have identical opinions, thoughts, and drives..factory made

if it is so bad you are free to leave this terrible 'free site' full of mouth breathers, I don't think anyone is compelling you to remain ?
 That_girl*
Joined: 9/29/2008
Msg: 34
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:20:08 PM
@Completely_Incomplete

the cherry topper is ya know right now there probablyare many others from here right now probably taking down the good looking loser advice as if they are direct prayers from God himself..


you would be shocked at the amount of emails come flooding from men who list themself under longterm looking for love if women switch thier profile to intimate encounters all of sudden the real truth comes out that they just put that up to attract women an are really only looking for 1niters or a quick fling,,the number 1 answer well if they would have out front said they just wanna hit it an quit it most women arent going meet them or wouldnt reply back..

ive changed my profile from different catagories alot on here to keep the dust off it but when i had it under IE it was amazing at the doubling amout of confessions of all the married/attached men pretending to be single an the single men who spoke up an said they really just want a fwb or fling or 1niter..

an as for the rest of the men who are really wanting companionship an want to date an find love well its like sitting in the nose bleed seats if you squint your eyes you might catch a glimsp of 1 but with the amount of fakes out here pretending and taking over you cant see the real ones who are trying to stand out in the crowd...it all becomes 1 big blur.
 LoneScottishBoy
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 35
view profile
History
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:24:14 PM

Men can not comment...


Mmmmmmmmppphhh mmmummph, mumph... mumph mumph mumph....mumphffff??????
 In_Gratitude
Joined: 4/1/2013
Msg: 36
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:36:30 PM
My bad - I just wanted to know what women were experiencing - didn't think that men would know what women were encountering.
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 37
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:49:19 PM

Could you envision a woman, actually paying for let`s say 2-3 dates, much less not want anything in return?

Well, I'm old-fashioned. I pay for the first 1-2 dates, and 'in return' I expect her company. Haven't encountered any bathroom window Houdini action yet. Around date 3 either she can pitch in, cook or settle for a cheaper place, and if she never shows any need to help out it will fizzle. However, I don't tie that to any expectation of sex. She will clearly know when that comes up (pun intended), and she is free to leave if she doesn't feel like it. It only comes up when there's mutual interest, so it's never been an issue for me.

I still believe that dating is a game of sorts, but not to get laid. It's a playful way of getting to know each other, and you can make good or bad moves.

OP, can you post a link to that study? I'm interested in the wording of the article.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 38
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 12:51:48 PM

So, specifically for me - a man who has the qualities for building a long-term satisfying relationship = a man who wants sex but wants to explore the whole picture beyond 3 dates before introducing sex.


I think the main reason for the three-date rule was that most people know INSTANTLY if there is any of that animal attraction that motivates sex, but they give it three dates/evenings worth of conversation for the guy to talk himself OUT of being eligible. It's well known the more a guy says, the deeper the grave he digs - so even the 'quiet' guys after three dates would have said enough to prove something - good or bad.

"Better to remain silent, and be thought a fool... than to speak and remove all doubt."
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 39
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 1:05:54 PM
such a delicate balancing act.

I would assume that is the guy you dated showed not the SLIGHTEST hint of attraction to you or sexual interest in you..but instead was lovingly checking out the body/azz of the male servers..you would also be rather disappointed?

or would you then be happy, feeling he would not 'pressure' you or 'make a move' you didn't want, or that would be 'too early'

you could seek gay guys, problem solved, many like to go out with women at times. be a 'f*g hag'
 LoneScottishBoy
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 40
view profile
History
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 1:20:30 PM

If I yank the duct tape off your mouth its going to pull out your face hairs. That could sting a bit.


You never know...I might like it.
 In_Gratitude
Joined: 4/1/2013
Msg: 41
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 1:54:56 PM
There are several sources in which you can find this information- they are scholarly published studies and do not have article direct links.

Journal of Marriage and Family - Volume 72, Issue 3, pages 557–575, June 2010
you need to read the entire article but a layman's summary can be found at
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2012/12/fools-rush-sex-early-relationship

In general, the findings supported the hypothesis that having sex early (defined here as within a month of dating) was related to poorer relationship outcomes for men and women. These four additional findings flesh out that overall conclusion and point to some sex differences as well:

1. Couples tend to move quickly into sexual relationships.
Over one-third reported having sex within one month after they started dating. This percentage was slightly higher than that observed in previous studies. The researchers weren’t sure if this finding reflected something unusual about the sample or that people just aren’t very good at estimating how long it takes for relationship to progress to sexual intimacy.

2. The slower the sex, the better the relationship.
For women, but not men, the longer the delay between dating and sex, the better the perception of the current relationship quality. Slowing things down for women, but not men, meant paying attention to other factors that would ultimately improve the relationship such as commitment and emotional intimacy.

3. Early sexual activity symbolized relationship commitment.
Again for women, but not men, having sex early in the scheme of things signified to them that their partner was committed to the relationship. For men, having sex early in the dating period didn’t actually have that same meaning.

Other sources
Journal of Sex Research
Journal of Family Psychology
“Premarital Sex in America,” Mark Regnerus, PhD Oxford University Press.
 In_Gratitude
Joined: 4/1/2013
Msg: 42
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 2:19:35 PM

I think the main reason for the three-date rule was that most people know INSTANTLY if there is any of that animal attraction that motivates sex, but they give it three dates/evenings worth of conversation for the guy to talk himself OUT of being eligible. It's well known the more a guy says, the deeper the grave he digs - so even the 'quiet' guys after three dates would have said enough to prove something - good or bad.

"Better to remain silent, and be thought a fool... than to speak and remove all doubt."


Thank you - I have never heard it put that way before - interesting perspective.
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 43
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 2:26:27 PM
Thanks, OP. I'll have to read the link when I have a moment.

About what you posted, I wonder how 'outcome' is defined. Intensity? Length? Regret?


For women, but not men, the longer the delay between dating and sex, the better the perception of the current relationship quality.

This is what I suspected, and I believe it is part of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If mostly women do the delaying (which I assume for the majority of cases), how willing are they to admit that it might have been just as good if they hadn't waited? Wouldn't such an admission concede that their dating philosophy was wrong? It may even be a subconscious thing: There is an incentive for her who established the rules (of no sex) to justify her behavior. If you ever bought an overpriced cup of coffee or piece of cake, wouldn't you judge its quality - assuming it's not significantly better or worse - higher rather than realize (or even admit) you spent too much? If the quality of the relationship were truly greater, shouldn't the men who didn't insist on that rule feel the same way? They got their sex one way or the other, so they don't have an incentive to skew the perception.
 In_Gratitude
Joined: 4/1/2013
Msg: 44
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 3:20:28 PM

This is what I suspected, and I believe it is part of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If mostly women do the delaying (which I assume for the majority of cases), how willing are they to admit that it might have been just as good if they hadn't waited? Wouldn't such an admission concede that their dating philosophy was wrong? It may even be a subconscious thing: There is an incentive for her who established the rules (of no sex) to justify her behavior. If you ever bought an overpriced cup of coffee or piece of cake, wouldn't you judge its quality - assuming it's not significantly better or worse - higher rather than realize (or even admit) you spent too much? If the quality of the relationship were truly greater, shouldn't the men who didn't insist on that rule feel the same way? They got their sex one way or the other, so they don't have an incentive to skew the perception.



I understand your reasoning above and why you might think that way, but that is not how a research study is approached - they create a survey which removes any bias like you mentioned above. Also, the recipient does not even know what the research is about, so they cant skew their answers.

You actually need to read the entire academic article to understand the full study and the methodology- this summary is a sort of simplified version. They actually do statistical regression and correlation analysis studies that take into account several different variables, age, race, income, religion, geography, educational attainment - many things that might or might not affect overall relationship satisfaction.

In another words - the participants do not know the hypothesis -both men and women were just asked several questions = how old are you, what is your income, what is your race, how long have you been together, how many partners have you had in the past, whats your favorite color, are you right handed or left, etc....

They do not ask questions like how does your income affect your satisfaction, or how does your race.....just general questions. Then when the statistics are done they can determine which variables have the greatest affect on the general outcome.

And if you read the actual study - it concludes that both men and women were happier in the long run with the overall quality of their relationship if they had waited longer before having sex. It just was a stronger correlation for women than for men.

But then again - this is just an average - there are always exceptions to every rule.

And I know for me, that I want the initial attraction, progressive physical activity, but I need to feel like I know someone, trust them, and that there is a reciprocal affection and exclusivity before I can have fun with sexual intimacy

I just wanted to know if I was in the right place for what I was looking for is all....can't find a blue crayon in a box of red ones - y'know?
 RandomDAK
Joined: 1/4/2013
Msg: 45
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 4:26:45 PM
I think the problem with studies and research like this is that other underlying factors are seldom taken into consideration. In the study you are referring to specifically, did they ask about sexual satisfaction in relationships leading up to the one in question? There are SO many factors that keep relationships working or failing, and sex is a fairly small part of it in the long run. Just basing the length of a relationship on how quickly you started having sex is like basing the number of car accidents in people 40 or older on how young they were when they got their license. Sure, I bet I could do a survey and find a boatload of data that suggests the longer you have been driving the better of a driver you are, but it doesn't change the fact that most people who get into a lot of accidents are just crappy drivers.

Take this one: A scientific study showed that cows tended to face north or south in the mornings, and the results the scientists derived from this was that cows must have some innate compass built in, it was just too compelling, based on the data, to arrive at any other conclusion.. why else would cows face due north or due south, and not somewhere in between? Made perfect sense until a rancher said "maybe they are turning that way to get the sun on their sides and warm up.. " See, if the study had included taking body temperatures, or something like that they would have figured it out, but they weren't studying that, they were studying the tendency of cows to face a certain direction.

I agree with men who say that they don't want to wait too long to discover if one important component of a relationship is going to work. Sure, there are men out there looking for hookups.. and women as well. Talking about sex early on and having it fairly early is NOT a sign that they just want a one night stand. The fact is, if you are not comfortable talking about sex and they are, you probably are not going to work out together.

A relationship needs to have certain components match up. You have to be in the same place emotionally, and looking for the same thing emotionally. You have to have things in common, not everything, just enough so that you have a reason outside of sex to spend time together. You have to be intellectually compatible, if one of you talks on a whole different level than the other, it probably won't work. And you have to be physically attracted to each other on some level and compatible sexually. If the guy (or gal) is looking to settle into something with sex 3 times a week and the other is thinking more along the lines of once a week, there is GOING to be problems. No question about it. As time goes on, sex might become of less consequence in a relationship, but early on you need to bond intimately.

A romantic relationship is different from a friendship on one level: there is intimacy involved. If there is no intimacy, it is a friendship. Doesn't necessarily have to be physical intimacy, but most forms of intimacy involve physical contact. If you deny the relationship any kind of intimacy, it is going to fail. You have to be compatible here. It doesn't mean you have to be sexually active, just that you have to be on the same page about it. And how do you find that out if you can't talk about it?

Yes, I believe it is a waste of time to pursue a relationship and leave one component out completely until everything else is in place. Have you ever started a conversation on a dating site where you didn't have a picture of the person? Have you ended up REALLY liking their personality? Then have you seen a picture before meeting (or met blindly) and had no physical attraction whatsoever? Didn't end up working out did it.. Unless you were both looking for a friend, you just wasted your time. You don't go to a dealer and buy a car without driving it first, regardless of how good your history with that brand is, or how well the dealer sold it to you.

Here is the REAL problem here: You meet someone, and there is chemistry. You have sex early (1st, 2nd, or 3rd date). You have GOOD sex. So you keep seeing them. You start to have a relationship. You start to see them more, and maybe take the next step. Then something happens, she isn't in the mood, or he is stressed and busy, or whatever, and the sex stops for a few weeks. You realize that without sex in the relationship, all those feelings you had aren't really real. You break up and you're hurt. Yes, this happens. Easily. So if you start trusting your "feelings" early on, and ignore the basics of a relationship, and allow the chemistry and passion to override getting to know each other, and EVERY date ends in sex, then you will probably NOT last long.

However, this is the same with ANY aspect of a relationship. Just that sex is the more powerful one because it actually dumps chemicals and hormones into your system that give you the same feelings as love. You can ignore sex and end up in a relationship with someone based on your shared love for a sport, or a hobby, or for intellectual talk, or whatever, and if the sex ends up being bad, the relationship will still fail sooner or later. So have sex when you are ready, but don't hold off on it for months unless you like to gamble.

Just ask yourself this: Are you going to be more hurt if the guy stops calling after a few dates where you had sex, or if you fall in love with his personality after 3 months and then have sex and he stops calling.. ? Bad sex will kill it just as fast as anything else. If you don't believe this then you are fooling yourself.

One final word in this long post: Men feel the most loved when their woman gives them sex. Women feel the most loved when men show it in other ways. It is a generalization but pretty universal. Sadly, most relationships fall apart when sex slows down, men start to feel unloved and stop showing it in other ways (ie no romance), which just makes the problem worse. In my opinion, the best way to keep a relationship going is to have great communication. If you start from the beginning not wanting to communicate about sex (whether you are having it or not), then you are pretty much making sure you will not survive past a certain point. If the subject comes up, confront it head on. If you want to wait a while, tell them, in no uncertain terms. If they aren't OK with waiting that long, then you know right now you are not cut out for each other. Pretty simple really.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 46
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 5:29:01 PM
And if you read the actual study - it concludes that both men and women were happier in the long run with the overall quality of their relationship if they had waited longer before having sex.

I would agree with that... it just goes to show the ladies that one shouldn't desire or expect to start a relationship just because you decided to hop in bed with the guy. That should be brought to women about playing the whole "We have to be a couple now!" card. :)

All semi-kidding aside, I agree that of the happier relationships, you'll find a higher % of couples who didn't have sex too soon. However, I also think that you'll find a higher % of couples who were friends in a social group or in a workplace, etc. for a while THEN deciding to date (thus sex). I think that's probably a very good portion of those who "waited", because they didn't really "wait" -- they just waited before actually Dating (which leads to sex, emotions, etc.).

The known higher % of success when you're friends first instigates some people to play the "Friends First" game with Strangers -- which is a sad, illusionary role-playing game. You can't pre-emptively set it up and hang out 1-on-1 when you're already revealing the outcome you're aiming at (being more than friends, ie Dating). But that's a whole other topic.

Anyway, point being is that if you know the person beforehand, and then start a relationship, there's a higher % that the relationship will be fruitful. I'm sure you'll find those that didn't know them prior to beginning the actual (pre-relationship) Dating phase had sex around the same time as those who did. In essence:
- It's not so much the timeline of 1st Date->Date-with-Sex
- It's more timeline of knowing the person->Having Sex

People who know each other already with the intent of going down Dating alley and do, I would bet, would have a higher % of fruitful relationships than those who didn't know each other beforehand.... and also that they don't hold back on having sex either, since they already knew each other. When asked "How long did it take you two before you had sex?" I'm sure many in that camp didn't count when they had their first real Date, but when they mutually knew they liked each other.

When you meet a stranger, sure, you can hold off on the sex for a while and that will increase your chances that if you get in a Relationship, that it will be more fruitful IF you get in one. Why? It's easier to "end things" when you're not in a Relationship yet. When you rush things with sex, it can only speed up getting in a Relationship, and with many people they do -- and it's harder to "end things" and they just go with it, despite compatibility issues.
 no_1_bby
Joined: 5/3/2006
Msg: 47
view profile
History
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 6:29:41 PM

I think I'm a pretty quality man, but when I was dating I had a two date rule: no kissing by the second date = last date.

Having lived with a woman for 21 years who was not demonstrative physically, I vowed never to get caught in that night mare scenario again.

I can provide enough demonstrative physicality to prove I'm not your ex without having to remove my clothes or work a deadline I'm not comfortable with.


Add to that;
Making a person wait to have sex doesn't automatically make you a 'quality' match.

I don't disagree with that.


'Quality' Guys DO have levels of tolerance, just like women do. If you become enough of an azzhat, guys are going to leave no matter if sex is in the equation or not.

Yup. Feel free to move along if I don't move at a pace suitable to you. However, that doesn't mean I'm an a$$hat for not putting out before I'm ready.


In my experience, the 'spark' of sexual attraction makes it's presence known early in a relationship, even if the 'act' does not occur within the first few dates. That being said, the 'spark' can disappear just as quickly - for just about ANY reason. If there is no spark, there really IS no romance - you're just friends. I'd rather test that 'spark' than ignore it - because until I'm too ancient and fragile to have sex, sex IS GOING to be part of any long-term romantic partnership I have. If I claimed anything less than that I'd be a liar, and anyone else inside this dating site that thinks I'm fine being 'just friends' is a fool.

I don't really disagree with this.

The part I DO disagree with is the whole "I want sex when *I* want sex, and if I don't get it *right then* than she is stringing me along and/or worthless in bed" attitude I'm hearing. Again, perception being what it is and all that.. but I sure as f*ck hope that you're not meaning that as how it's coming across, which is to say not in a nice way.

If there's no spark before the sex, there's not likely to be a spark for me after sex. Whether that sex happens within 30 minutes of meeting, or 30 weeks.

Here's the other aspect that I realized wasn't a shared factoid... sex for me starts in my brain, not between my legs. Perhaps that the bigger difference between us.
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 48
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 7:27:43 PM

If there's no spark before the sex, there's not likely to be a spark for me after sex.

Nobody is trying to convince you to have sex when you don’t feel like it. It’s my understanding that the discussion is about ‘quality of men’ and ‘early sex as an indicator of no quality’. Or in other words, how having sex early influences the chance of success in a relationship. If there is no spark, what’s the point of musing about the ‘relationship’?

Being a programmer, I thought about what a simplified model tells me. Here are my assumptions:
o Either – despite mutual interest - neither sex nor relationship (which is my term for everything else here) works out (N), sex works out (S), relationship works out (R) or both (B).
o For simplicity I assign an independent coin toss likelihood for S and R. That leaves 25% for each N, S, R and B.
o For simplicity I put 4 days on checking out the sex (roughly in line with the 3 day rule) and 40 days for checking out the relatitionship (a bit over a month should be more or less sufficient). Adjust the numbers to your liking.
o I list the type (see first point), whether sex was had, the number of days until it is clear and the result whether it works overall.

Here is the result for checking sex first (early sex):
- N, sex, 4, fail
- R, sex, 4, fail (relationship works, but sex fails)
- S, sex, 44, fail (sex works, but relationship fails)
- B, sex, 44, pass
Average likelihood 25% of overall success, average elapse time 24 days. Sex was had in all four cases.

Here is the result for checking relationship first (late sex):
- N, no sex, 40, fail
- R, sex, 44, fail
- S, no sex, 40, fail
- B, sex, 44, pass
Average likelihood 25% of overall success, average elapse time 42 days. Sex was had in two cases. In one of the two 'no sex' cases, it would have been good.

So if you always go for it, you know in nearly half the time on average, but the trade-off is more sex. Neither method is more successful or more reliable as an indicator.

Other than the likelihood and duration values, am I wrong in my model? Is there an advantage to either method when the numbers are tweaked? Of course, I missed the boat completely with my model if waiting MAKES you more compatible or successful.
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 49
Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 10:46:14 PM
can't find a blue crayon in a box of red ones - y'know?

Perhaps most of the women who have found their blue crayon have left the site. The women who could give you positive responses are no longer here to answer the question. And according to the Cornell survey, they won't be back (grins).
 gentleplus
Joined: 9/8/2008
Msg: 50
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Pre-qualifiying quality men
Posted: 4/12/2013 10:47:23 PM
As a general rule... at least t first
men are capable of and may prefer sex without intimacy
women are capable of and may prefer intimacy without sex

when each gender chooses to set side their predispositions and make authentic exploration of the others needs, goals and desires at every level and topic.... this is the foundation of an abiding intimacy

failure to have frank, mature, detailed discussions about physical intimacy, goals, personal needs, desires, concerns, past issues, etc early in the exploration is a basic mistake people can make very often.....

this strategy excludes, users, players, perverts, criminals, gold diggers, liars, mentally, emotionally immature, nutters etc.... these are to be filtered out quickly and without rudeness, anger, shame or apology...

OP.... yes this is a good place to do these things... just be careful, reasonable, and articulate in your process....

ps... an authentic man would have zero issue with a background/ credit check as well.... so get one... they are low cost... but be prepared as a courtesy to provide the same documentation for yourself to them

I have come to understand that physical intimacy is a tangible celebration of emotional and relational connections.... that being said the most difficult part is finding a partner that is mutual to your preferences to express it... ie frequency, type, kinks, preferences, fantasies, health limits, etc
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