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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywher      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 76
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Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to? Page 4 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
....but you specifically said:


disrespectful of our freedom to breathe clean air.


It quite sounds like a reference to 2nd hand smoke. The smokers next to you (in an open-air enviroment) were "polluting your air", hence it cannot be anything but "2nd hand smoke". If it was not 2nd hand smoke, then it was only a personally offensive odour to you, otherwise your open air would have been deemed "clean" by you during that episode, despite your similar suntan lotion and/or food//body//personal hygiene odours wafting towards others.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 77
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/13/2013 10:28:46 AM


Assuming it is a shorter life. It is also well known and documented of many people who smoked their entire adult lives and lived into their 90's and older.


There are also nonagenarians who have attempted suicide, or been struck by lightning, or taken a bullet, or been bitten by a venemous snake, or been involved in a plane crash. What is your point, exactly?


Actually I made my point quite clearly in response to what Coma_White wrote, but you missed it or don't get it.


Precisely. I'm glad you agree with me that when I was having a picnic with my son and his friends on the beach last weekend, the person who decided to plop herself down right beside us and light one up was being disrespectful of our freedom to breathe clean air.


Actually I don't agree with you, but you took what I wrote and interpreted it to suit you. Just like my equating drinking to smoking is ignored because you don't want your freedom to drink taken away from you but my freedom not to have to deal with drinkers is taken away from me. Since you are so sure you are right about your freedoms, did you ask this person to not smoke next to you, did you get angry with the individual?
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 78
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/13/2013 12:14:39 PM

My question was rhetorical.


But did you get my point or miss it?


You too now with the putting of words into other people's mouths?? If you reread what I wrote, you'll see that I acknowledged drinking to excess was not healthy.


I had already read what you wrote about excessive drinking, which is why I used the analogy between smoking and drinking.


I was annoyed by what happened; yes. But I didn't confront her. Why do you ask?

The majority of people I know who smoke have the consideration not to sit smack dab next to a group of kids who are sitting and eating - when there is plenty of space to spread out - and just light up a cig. I can't understand why you would think that's fine. (And I'm not talking about what's legal. I'm talking about basic human consideration.)


I don't think it's fine. How you came to that conclusion is beyond me. Here in Canada smokers are very considerate of others and don't infringe on the space of non-smokers. And why you chose not to confront her is your business.


I dislike militant *thisismygodgivenrightandtohellwitheveryoneelse* smokers.


That must come from where you live. I don't know any smokers like that. I know of a lot of non-smokers, and cyclists, and joggers, and drinkers, et al, like that.
 Kohmelo
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 79
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Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/13/2013 4:23:45 PM

I am not a cigarette smoker, therefore I can walk into a building, or someones house, etc, & detect the smell of cigarette smoke the same way an anti smoking crusader does. THAT DOESN'T MEAN ITS 2ND HAND SMOKE....But to a crusader, it is. I can also walk into a non-smoker's home and detect if they fried fish in the past week. I am breathing 2nd hand fish obviously.

The smell of fish isn't toxic. I work with all kinds of chemicals and you don't actually have to be able to smell them for them to be doing you harm. We have meters around our facility to detect leakage. I don't know where you get the idea that cigarette smoke has to be visible to be causing harm but I'm fairly sure you just made it up.


created by a brainwashing agenda..

You say you don't smoke. I would guess you have no idea how harmful smoke is. I have 20 years experience with first hand smoke so I'd love to hear who is running this brainwashing agenda and what their motives are. I need a laugh for today.


Here is a study, sitting can be more harmful than smoking,lol...

That's not a study, it's an article. It does not say sitting is more harmful than smoking, it says living a sedentary lifestyle is more harmful than smoking. Reading with comprehension.
Let's apply the logic
Laying on the street in traffic is more dangerous than sitting. Now sitting is ok.
Jumping off a cliff onto jagged rocks is more dangerous than laying on the street in traffic. Now laying on the street in traffic is ok.
Committing suicide is more dangerous than jumping off a cliff onto jagged rocks. Now jumping off a cliff onto jagged rocks is ok.
Good thinking.
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 80
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Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/13/2013 5:43:20 PM

The smell of fish isn't toxic



Oh,but it is. As I said, I can detect if someone fried fish in their house in the past week. I am breathing carcenogenic toxins at roughly the same level as trace residual cigarette smoke odour.


Identification of benzo[a]pyrene 7,8-diol 9,10-epoxide N2-deoxyguanosine in human lung adenocarcinoma cells exposed to cooking fumes from frying fish under domestic conditions.


http://www.occup-med.com/content/4/1/9



I work with all kinds of chemicals and you don't actually have to be able to smell them for them to be doing you harm. We have meters around our facility to detect leakage. I don't know where you get the idea that cigarette smoke has to be visible to be causing harm but I'm fairly sure you just made it up.



Thanks for the lovely diatribe, but I worked in a filthy steel mill - with all kinds of chemicals - for nearly 30 years. Yes,we also had a variety of EPA gas and particulate monitors everywhere. We also had required access to MSDA sheets for every chemical we handled. There was no law stating that the industry had to cease & desist putting that primordal soup of particulates, toxins & gasses into the air in MY work environment, nor any law that banned us from handling any harmful chemical. The only law concerning any of that was the UPPER threshold limit concerning any of these TOXIC gasses, chemicals and/or particulates. In other words, it was OK to breathe or handle ANYTHING, as long as it was within tolerable set limits for a set period of time.

Cigarette smoke was not part of any equation. I'm fairly sure you just made it up, because I am sure that any brief exposure to any upper limit of ppm cigarette smoke pales in comparison to any ALLOWABLE EPA limit of the myriad of cancer-causing agents that was deemed OK for me to breathe, ingest or absorb on a daily basis in a steel mill as per EPA allowable limit regulations.

For example, working in a steel mill, I am allowed to be exposed to 50 ppm of CO (carbon monoxide) for an 8 HOUR PERIOD, according to OSHA.

Typical air contains about 2 ppm of CO at any instant of time.

Prolonged concentrated second hand smoke exposure(not a whiff of smoke in an open-air environment) can raise those levels to a bit over 10 ppm, which is FAR below any concentration I was allowed to be exposed to in my work environment.

Thats 10 ppm is FAR below the EPA limit of 50 ppm of CO, or any threshold set by any agency.

I also am allowed to be exposed to 50ppm of a cancer-causing metal, hexavalent chromium, in my workplace. I was exposed to that nearly every day for nearly 30 years.

The list goes on & on & on & on.......there are tolerable limits set for virtually every toxin known to man, but somehow for anti smoking crusaders, tobacco smoke is magically different and instantly fatal. Perhaps we should make weapons from it.

The only answer I can give you is that anti- smoking crusaders believe they are allowed to create & play by a different set of rules than everyone else.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 81
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/13/2013 8:29:21 PM

All I can tell you is that if I'm around cigarette smoke, my asthma will act up and I will get hives. I'm severely allergic to it.


You, my friend, have a legitimate reason. Any smoker would be very considerate of you, more than they would be for others, because of the asthma and allergy.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 82
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/14/2013 3:58:45 AM

Luckily not all smokers are so self-important that they try to determine what is a "legitimate" reason not to impose on another. Most smokers I know have the dignity to respect others' preferences, just as they want their own preferences respected.


Gee, you think I think of myself as self-important. If I were you I'd reserve that thought for the non-smokers who don't return the courtesy of respecting others' preferences.
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 83
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/14/2013 5:32:41 AM

The list goes on & on & on & on.......there are tolerable limits set for virtually every toxin known to man, but somehow for anti smoking crusaders, tobacco smoke is magically different and instantly fatal. Perhaps we should make weapons from it.

The only answer I can give you is that anti- smoking crusaders believe they are allowed to create & play by a different set of rules than everyone else.


yeah, well. or just an infinitesimal possibility (that you appear to have overlooked) that it COULD be a matter of choice. you chose to work in the steel industry because you apparently deemed the risks of inhaling that stuff 'acceptable' in light of the pay and competing career choices.

if you had REALLY wanted to, or thought the risk was too high you could have chosen a 'safer' career path (less exposure to those chemicals.)

most people cannot choose to ensure that smokers won't light up in close proximity to them, unless they choose to stay in their house & never exit - doesn't seem very 'reasonable'

so the 'magical difference' might be that smokers choose to inflict their crap on others. while YOU chose to work int he steel industry.

others may well choose to get the training & education to work in a safer industry because they do not want to be exposed to those chemicals.

but a smoker makes that choice for others who do not want to inhale 2nd-hand smoke -makes the choice for them, or imposes his/her will on others. that's a horse of a different color
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 84
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Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/14/2013 9:02:07 AM

yeah, well. or just an infinitesimal possibility (that you appear to have overlooked) that it COULD be a matter of choice. you chose to work in the steel industry because you apparently deemed the risks of inhaling that stuff 'acceptable' in light of the pay and competing career choices.

if you had REALLY wanted to, or thought the risk was too high you could have chosen a 'safer' career path (less exposure to those chemicals.)

most people cannot choose to ensure that smokers won't light up in close proximity to them, unless they choose to stay in their house & never exit - doesn't seem very 'reasonable'


Nobody knew 30, 40, 50 years ago that these were deadly carcinogens. OSHA and EPA werent established until the 1970s, and didnt start widespread comprehensive regulations until years after their inceptions. Thanks for your concern.


You may as well have just said this to me:



Hello, Mr. Steelworker. I wasnt aware that you were exposed to dozens, if not perhaps hundreds of untold carcinogenic, possibly cancer causing toxins in the air of your work environment AND surrounding local communities! Thats a shame. With effort, foresight, determination, & creativity, it MAY be possible to rid your workplace and nearby urban areas of these dangerous substances.

But, unfortunately, its just not "easy" or "convenient" to do. It would require much too much effort, & frankly, we feel you're not worth it. Since Im not exposed to it nor will ever be, I really dont care about it very much. You chose to work and live there - I suppose you will have to put up with it. Sorry!!

On the other hand, I will do everything in my power to help a fellow anti smoker in his/her crusade to rid the one(1) REMOTELY possible carcinogenic cancer causing toxin from the air in THEIR workplace, or any open-air public atmosphere.

See...even though the air in your work environment AND surrounding city/community is far far worse, the bottom line is, I simply dont like cigarette smoke, so therefore its something thats dear to my heart & Im willing to do all I can to make this happen at whatever cost, even if that means pushing my agenda front & centre, effectively burying YOUR far worse problem, rendering it invisible, so that no action be taken, which would steal the limelight from our crusade . Its obvious that I feel their peace of mind in their workplace and/or surrounding community is far more important than yours, so preferential treatment is in order.

In the spirit of hypocritical double standards, I say to you...Good luck in your workplace and nearby polluted communities. Here...here's a respirator. Wear it in good health.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 85
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/14/2013 11:39:12 AM

Why aren't there any NEW THREADS for months in Off-Topics and Science/Phil?
Old threads are recycling.

Are we now scared of something?


To remedy that start a new thread yourself about an interesting topic.

Hozo wrote:

Thanks for your concern.


Time to give it up. Have you ever had one of those moments where you know it's a lost cause? This is one of them and this thread is dead because the one's you are talking to only see and hear what they want and won't/don't listen to anyone but themselves or others who think like they do.
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 86
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/14/2013 12:24:56 PM

Thanks for your concern.


don't thank me, I have/had no concern. don't drown in your tears though. no one likes whiners & crybabies . anybody with common sense knew there was risk there even 30 years ago. there was rick from physically getting hit with crap if not the chemicals.

you were likely young and could earn twice as much per hour with a strong union and good pay/benefits package compared to any other job you were aware of at the time, so you jumped on it. maybe being young you thought you were invincible at the time as many younger people do
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 87
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Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/14/2013 12:53:07 PM
Then practice what you preach and stop crying like a baby and running to mommy whenever someone lights a cigarette 10 meters away.

Again,I have no concern for 2nd hand smoke, let alone a whiff of smoke from a bystander in open air. It pales in comparison to what I breathed, absorbed, or ingested as a child or young adult in my own backyard or house located near a heavy industry. You can breathe a lifetime of this so called "2nd hand smoke". It does not even come close to what I breathed in 1 month on my job, or, even if I didnt work there, just growing up and living in my community. We could almost always "see" the air we breathed.

Our stained,once white home exteriors, dulled oxidised automobile finishes and non-smoking mothers, aunts and grandmothers with odd cancers and severe respiratory problems(who never set foot inside a steel mill) are testament to that.
 justagrlwithacat
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 88
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/18/2013 9:37:58 PM
They just did this last weekend here.
http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/708647/cigarette-butt-return-pilot-program-a-smokin-success-in-vancouvers-west-end/

and I heard some guy on the radio today talking about a dollar deposit per pack to be refunded when butts returned or something. That one I don't know about. but we do it with bottles, so who knows.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 89
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/18/2013 10:19:14 PM

the people participating in this forum who are bothered by cigarettes are actually the ones RESPONSIBLE for exposing you to all those very harmful substances over the years, since they hold the unique ability to impact and influence the lawmakers.


How naive of me. I always though the ones who had impact and influence on the lawmakers were the lobbyists who represents those with money and real power.
 L_LuuLuu
Joined: 8/2/2009
Msg: 90
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Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/19/2013 4:28:43 PM

quite sounds like a reference to 2nd hand smoke. The smokers next to you (in an open-air enviroment) were "polluting your air", hence it cannot be anything but "2nd hand smoke".


NO, the air belongs to EVERYONE. Please share it with consideration for others by not polluting it Thanks.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 91
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/19/2013 5:10:56 PM

NO, the air belongs to EVERYONE. Please share it with consideration for others by not polluting it Thanks


Better tell that to all the people driving their vehicles and the corporation factories polluting the air daily. Fair is fair.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 92
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/19/2013 6:03:58 PM

NO, the air belongs to EVERYONE. Please share it with consideration for others by not polluting it Thanks


Better tell that to all the people driving their vehicles and the corporation factories polluting the air daily. Fair is fair.



Which includes public transit and the "fumes" from buses. How about the shiat you ladies put on you to make you "smell" good. Stuff makes me puke and tear up. Yet, enough of that silliness, cause it's never ending the "stuff" that is out there that we breath into our lungs. If you sit back and think, for just a sec, "second hand smoke" SHOULD be the least of your worries but, like a couple have said, pretty easy to pick on a "visible" group.

On topic, like "justagirlwitha cat" stated here in Vancouver they actually offered $$$$$ for people to go along and collect old butts off the street or wherever. I'm a smoker, and personally haven't tossed a "butt" on the ground in over 25 years. I have to ask why does $$$$$$$ have to "offered" for people to reach down and pick up, whatever????

I quit "tossing butts" one day when I watched one of them float away on a river I was fishing after I tossed and realized how stupid I was. Ever since, I just flick the ash off when done, and put the butt in my jacket or pocket. And when I walk, I pick up. Butts,needles, plastic tops from bottled water, etc, all on my own free will. I don't go walking around telling people how stupid it is to buy bottled water, though, again, if you actually think about it, it's pretty retarded to even have such a thing, especially here in North America.

Sooooooo, shouldn't the original question be, why are humans tossing ANYTHING onto the ground?????? Cause, if you think about, there are less and less smokers, and more and more humans, which, by default increases the stupid shiat you non smokers are doing to our environment when comparing to the amount of "butts" around on the ground.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 93
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/19/2013 10:12:00 PM

Sooooooo, shouldn't the original question be, why are humans tossing ANYTHING onto the ground?????? Cause, if you think about, there are less and less smokers, and more and more humans, which, by default increases the stupid shiat you non smokers are doing to our environment when comparing to the amount of "butts" around on the ground.


I mentioned that point in Message 56 of this thread:


Which encompasses everyone, smokers and non-smokers, everywhere. The majority of people, 95% or higher, are slobs and WILL leave a mess wherever they are in public (parks, beaches, ferries) and there is always trash cans that they have to pass when they leave. But they don't use them. I would not like to see what their homes look like.


And the non-smokers got very defensive of this accusation. Go figure.
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 94
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Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/21/2013 6:22:17 PM
/\ /\ and neither were you at the beach, complaining about someone smoking in OPEN AIR near you,whilst the vapours of your toxic sunscreen, which contains oxybenzone and retinyl palmitate, known cancer-causing agents, hotboxed someone else's space simultaneously.
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/21/2013 9:18:21 PM
^ Ha, funny, I have to say this...and being in the sun, something that can benefit you, too long/without clothing that you need sunblock for...does you what good?
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 97
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Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/21/2013 10:55:33 PM
Of course he (and all others) missed it. He recommends staying indoors - in your toxic, highly polluted cancer- causing indoor environment, versus being in the outdoor vicinity of a smoker. This is the result of a brainwashing agenda that masks and buries all other health threats, whilst putting smoking front and centre in the limelight in this perverted one-sided crusade.

It is far safer being outdoors surrounded by 10 smokers than being indoors. Anti-smoking crusaders do not put anything into perspective. Cigarette smoke is the only deadly entity on the planet, according to their tunnel-visioned perspective. Ignorance and deliberate blind-eye denial deems everything else conveniently healthy and safe in comparison.



According to the EPA, indoor air pollution is one of the nation's most pressing personal health concerns. Peak concentrations of 20 toxic compounds - some linked with cancer and birth defects - were 200 to 500 times higher inside some homes than outdoors, according to a 5-year EPA study that surveyed 600 homes in six cities.

Residues of more than 400 toxic chemicals - some found in household products and foods - have been identified in human blood and fat tissue.

Left untreated, long-term exposure to indoor pollution can result in lung cancer, or damage to the liver, kidney and central nervous system. Young children are especially vulnerable to impaired lung function and respiratory infection.

The risk for leukemia increases by four to seven times for children, ages 10 and under, whose parents use home or garden pesticides.

The risk of childhood brain cancer is associated with the use of pesticide "bombs" in the home, pesticides to control termites, flea collars on pets, insecticides in the garden or orchard, and herbicides to control weeds in the yard, including exposure to two common pesticides available in garden shops - carbaryl and diazinon.

Methylene chloride, the propellant used in many aerosol products, is carcinogenic. Some products containing methylene chloride have been pulled from the market, but the carcinogen continues to be found in many consumer products such as spray paint and stripper.

Not a single cosmetic company warns consumers of the presence of carcinogens in its products - despite the fact that a number of common cosmetic ingredients are carcinogenic or carcinogenic precursors.

Some experts estimate that 20 percent of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma cases among women are attributable to their use of hair dyes.

Certain cleansers and many brands of cat litter contain the carcinogen crystalline silica. Some car cleaning products contain formaldehyde.


http://www.preventcancer.com/consumers/household/carcinogens_home.htm
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 98
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/22/2013 5:25:41 AM
Not here, but, in many places it has been pointed out that it's just an "easy" thing to do while pointing at an user group(smokers) and all the "bad" it is for everyone. Yet, our typical household in North America is full of crap we shouldn't be breathing, items that "mask" bad smells being one. Has anyone ever changed their furnace filter before????

But, but, I do believe this thread was about butts and why we, the smokers, shouldn't be tossing them on the ground. As a smoker, I agree but, let's not just do the "easy" thing and pick on "smokers" when out in the ocean there is island of plastic floating around.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 99
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/22/2013 5:52:59 AM
One thing I've heard about non-smokers is they are cheap, lousy tippers. For the longest time, the only patrons in the restaurants were non-smokers when the no smoking by-laws went into effect here years ago, and serving staff in restaurants noticed a sharp decline in the tips.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 100
Why do smokers feel they can just throw their cigarette butts anywhere they want to?
Posted: 6/23/2013 8:24:38 PM

Quite a few jabs you've been taking. Do you really despise all non-smokers?


No, just the self-righteous who think smokers think the world revolves around them when it's the non-smokers with that mindset. And I didn't know you were keeping count of my participation in this thread. Thanks.


It's a fascinating study you've alluded to. I would love to hear more.


I never alluded to any study. Reread my comment, "I've heard" which would mean I've heard and nothing more from people who worked in the service industry and the time and this is what they said. Many of those establishments had regulars who probably smoked and they stopped coming to those restaurants once the by-law went in effect; and those customers tipped much better.
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