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 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 4
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Agree with the above. We don't know the facts yet but it's fairly safe to assume he had sex with her against her wishes and then killed her to prevent being caught out. Even at that point he had a choice to take the rap for rape.

That bloke over in Wales is trying to get off murdering April Jones saying he tried to find help for her after running her over....blah. Her DNA was found in bloodstains around his wood stove and a piece of human child's skull was found there too.

Like every other bloke on this forum I'm sure, what do I see when I see a 12 year old girl? I see a 12 year old girl. I don't see a sex objec t.

Compassion. Not even the slightest glimmering.
 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 12
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/10/2013 4:36:02 PM
thanks for the summary jackner, saves me the trouble of reading through it myself.
claims it was an accident (a headline i saw on google news) dont you normally seek help for the victim?
rather than hide em and make up stories.
if he's being tried for murder they must at least believe they have enough proof to justify it.
the prisons are full of innocent people, if you are willing to believe "them"
 ~Hams~
Joined: 9/18/2008
Msg: 15
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/11/2013 3:16:23 AM
It sounds to me from reading his letter that all he wants is for his dad to send him some money so he can buy some fags.

I don't know all the details from this case but I could never show any compassion to the likes of Mick Philpott or the April Jones murderer however much remorse they showed.

In the church they say you must forgive those who confess their sins so they can go to heaven but surely there are some crimes where hell should be the only destination.
 DAFT_DOG
Joined: 4/23/2011
Msg: 17
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/11/2013 4:33:46 AM
The main issue i have with "remorse".. ( be it genuine or otherwise ), is that its a case of .."well its a bit late for that now is`nt it ? "..... who does it help exactly ?, the victim ?...the victims loved ones ?....

knowing the person who killed my sister,brother etc was "sorry" would`nt make a blind bit of difference to how i felt about that person, but, the next person may feel otherwise .
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 20
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/11/2013 8:05:52 AM
I can see that we might have some compassion for the person in Jacknhers post but should we really? He again had the chance to do something about the situation but then found himself in a position where he committed murder? (or was it manslaughter?)

I think I could have compassion or maybe respect for someone who demonstrates their sorrow for what they've done. A great example would be Profumo,
After his resignation, Profumo began to work as a volunteer cleaning toilets at Toynbee Hall, a charity based in the East End of London, and continued to work there for the rest of his life.


Philpott said the first thing he wants to do after he gets out of jail (don't hold your breath sunshine) is to have sex on his childrens grave.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 23
If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/12/2013 4:41:50 AM
An interesting question, IMO Dora.
First of all, the word "deserve" is a difficult one (IMO), who "deserves" what exactly..?
Life doesn't always give people what they (or others) might imagine they "deserve".
Life is quite random. People die when they didn't "deserve" it, as in the case of this young girl, with (potentially) her whole life ahead of her. (I'm not familiar with this case at all).

IMO if this man really feels remorse for his actions, then there really is only one "honourable" solution, which would adequately convey/demonstrate that remorse. - That doesn't involve asking for tobacco.

The letter to his father doesn't really convey any "remorse", to me, at all.
I don't see him begging for forgiveness, or trying to explain how this "mistake" came about.
Neither do I see any empathy for her family.

So in this case, I'd have to say that the OP is inapplicable.

In more general (hypothetical) terms, I understand what you're saying (I think), we are all fallible.

In the case of murder though, particularly for some sort of sexual gratification, I think most people's ability to feel "compassion" would stop with the victims, and their families, unless they happened to be close to the perpetrator, or knew some salient facts, which rendered the verdict to be an "injustice".
(This can happen, and is mainly why I oppose the death penalty.)

I think we should treat the guilty with humanity, we are only each responsible for our own actions, not theirs.
I understand grief, and anger, and the "need" for revenge, but the problem with "revenge" (IMO) is that it's often targeted at the innocent. (Eg Afghanistan).

We shouldn't let the people who do "bad" things, define how we behave, or we are 'sinking to their level'. - ^^ We are only responsible for our own actions, not theirs.


Note to self. Remind Jo van at every opportunity Profumo was a Tory.

Truly Otiose
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 24
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/13/2013 4:50:39 AM
Well Hazell has finally admitted to the murder, now the truth comes out.



The prosecution said Hazell had a sexual attraction to the schoolgirl.
The jury had been show an image of a child alleged to be Tia, dead on a bed at her grandmother's house.
Blood could be seen on the bed linen in the picture, said to have been taken in the early hours of 3 August, when prosecutors say Tia died.
Jurors heard two memory cards were found in the house, one in the kitchen and one, hidden on top of a doorframe, which contained "extensive pornography" featuring young girls.
There were also three video clips of Tia sleeping in her bedroom and 11 still images of her sleeping.

Hazell had a reputation for violence on the estate where he lived and three years ago he was convicted for threatening pub landlord Peter Wilson with a machete.
"He was a horrible man, a horrible man," Mr Wilson told the BBC.
"He was a bully, not very popular at all on the estate I would say."


Hope he get's a lot more than the 18 years he's expecting.
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 29
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/13/2013 10:20:37 AM
There's no doubt a stable and loving home is vital for emotional well being and is most important in the first year of a child's life. If everyone had that opportunity I am sure we would see a lot less violence and anti social behaviour.

It will be interesting to see if Hazell claims to have been abused as a child as so many abusers do. How many of those claims are true and how many are jumping on the bandwagon.
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 33
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/13/2013 4:16:58 PM
I don't have a scintilla of compasion for where the guy is now.

But if he'd been brought up in a normal loving home where sex, drugs, violence, prostitution and abuse are normal he probably would have been a very different person.

I'm not sure if compassion is the right word but I do feel regret that we as a society don't seem to be able to stop kids being put into and enduring these awful situations.

Right now, there are thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of kids living in abusive situations. Most of them will do OK, carry the scars but do OK despite it. But 5, 10, 20 years down the line we will hear of stomach twisting murders, kidnaps and abuse we keep thinking can't happen.
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 36
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/14/2013 4:35:53 AM
Minimum 38 years for Hazell before he can apply for parole. That will take him up to 75 before he can think of getting out.

Should have been a whole life tariff to protect other potential victims in the future.
 Chuzz16
Joined: 3/26/2011
Msg: 40
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/14/2013 8:01:35 AM
The only good thing he has done is to finally admit it to save the family going through anymore hell,


I'm not even sure if he admitted it to save the family, or to save everyone from knowing even more of the facts of what he did to the poor little mite, and therefore saving himself. Maybe there was even more to be told and he just didn't want it all to come out.

I do wonder what goes through these twisted minds.

I'm afraid when I read the letter, my thoughts were he was only concerned with himself.


It doesn't bear thinking about does it? I can't even begin to imagine the hell that they now have to live with. I can't think of many things that could come close to that kind of pain.
vvv
 Chuzz16
Joined: 3/26/2011
Msg: 43
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/14/2013 8:57:55 AM
^^^^^

I had the odd clip when I was a child. Only now and again and never in real anger.

When I had my son, the last thing I would have wanted to do was hit him, slap him, clip him (whatever you want to call it) and I never have.

My mum used to tell me I would have 'trouble' with him, cause she thought he wouldn't learn right from wrong without a little 'tap' now and again.

Over the years there have been many times in my life where I wished I had 'listened to Mother', but that wasn't one of them.

I didn't feel the need to smack, swear or shout, but to listen, talk, reason, respect and love him. I'm happy to say it has paid off.

Sorry to also stray from the op.
 GeordieColin
Joined: 10/18/2012
Msg: 44
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If you are really remorseful for murder, do you deserve some compassion?
Posted: 5/14/2013 4:03:20 PM
It may seem pretty callous but how many are attracted to bad boys ? Too often it is a case of like attracts like. First he was with her mum then her gran got involved with him. It seemed like he was excepted by a number of the family despite his record and reputation.
Just because a person had a raw deal from an early age it does not justify what they become as a mature adult .
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