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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > What would you do, if you were a god?      Home login  
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 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
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What would you do, if you were a god?Page 9 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)

but it's all a theoretical exercise.


I was being quite serious actually. Is it still considered a god complex if you think that everyone else is also god?
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 202
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/23/2014 7:28:12 AM

Exist "where"? In our universe, it'd be God before anything existing in our universe, hence, knowledge or any other concepts within.


exactly how would you "know" this..... if knowledge didn't exist before you did?

but anyway if I was God I would place everyone on their own planet and hope att&t u-verse live up to their commercials and give everyone universal internet access from galaxy to galaxy where they can text and chat unlimited for free

people can send their lifelike hologram projection through the internet connection to visit family and friends, you can get married, live together, have sex, launch nukes even get a surgical operation (an evolved version of obamacare).....and if you want a Divorce or tired of someone all you have to do is send a notification and de-friend them
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 203
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/24/2014 8:08:22 AM

If God were a by-product OF this universe, then he wouldn't be a supreme being,


can you explain how an entity with zero "knowledge" and therefore lacked "omnipotence"would justifiably be considered as being a Supreme Being?

such questions is why the existence of God could never precede the existence of knowledge,
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/24/2014 11:18:49 AM
^^^
^^^
There are three pretty simple paradoxes of logic going on here:

the universe has a beginning in time, at least as far as we can tell, and that is one of the few things that we're pretty sure we got right. If the universe has a beginning in time then one of three things must be true if a god(s) exist or not.

1) the universe is the sum total of all that can possibly exist (meaning the concept "outside the universe" or "beyond the universe" is completely meaningless). God exists within the universe or is the universe personified. If this is true then god either came into existance along with creation or manifested sometime afterward.

2) the universe is not the sum total of all that is possible to exist. God either exists beyond our universe, and thus may not be bound by the rules that we have discovered so far within this universe, or again, god came into existance along with creation or manifested sometime afterward, In which case, god is not a supreme power at all.

3) We are not smart enough to figure this stuff out yet, and ultimately there is a rather simple explanation for why things are the way they are (because the vast majority of the time that is the way things usually work with the universe: Occam's razor, path of least resistance, so on and so forth) but we simply lack a required perspective. This missing perspective may turn out to be something really simple, or it may turn out that our minds still need to do a little evolving before we become capable of figuring it out, or it may even turn out that no matter how much we change/evolve our perspective, we will never be capable of understanding it.

All of these are very good possibilities, along with the idea that god may or may not exist. The only thing we can truly say that we know about the matter, and still remain intellectually honest, is that we really don't know much of anything about the matter.

God, or the origin of the universe, is really fun to debate, but ultimately, from the practical stand point of a single human life, it is a complete waste of time, unless thinking about such things happens to be your job, like if you were a cosmologist or something. There is very little, at this point in time, that can be learned through the contemplation of these concepts, for the average human being. Some people will claim that, to some degree or another, a certain level of spiritual awareness can be attained. But there are so many differing opinion on what exactly spiritual awareness even is, let alone the fact that there is so little rational proof to distinguish any of these consepts of spirituality as anything more than nonsense.

There was a great speaker back in the 1970 named Allen Watts, who discussed many concepts related to the nature of existance, whom I consider to be really good:

http://youtu.be/dDCGL9tRDEc

My personal thought on the matter is that, it would be very healthy mentally/spiritually for every/any indevidual to spend a great deal of time, at at-least one point in life, in a serious attempt really try to tackle these concepts, but without any kind of bias or favoritism (or at least as little as possible) toward any definite position. Then either set it aside as something that you do not understand, and leave it at that and nothing more, or make an attempt to try and contribute to the total sum of human knowledge concerning the matter, once again with an attempt to abandon any kind of bias or favoritism for any particular idea (e.g. god, not god, spiritualism, materialism, etc) and then take even the idea that bias is wrong and through that out the window as well.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 205
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/24/2014 1:31:58 PM

There are three pretty simple paradoxes of logic going on here:

the universe has a beginning in time, at least as far as we can tell, and that is one of the few things that we're pretty sure we got right. If the universe has a beginning in time then one of three things must be true if a god(s) exist or not.


the question "Which Existed First God or Knowledge?.... doesn't dispute whether God created the Universe nor dispute God's existence...it merely challenges the notion whether there were no other existence before God's existences.. ....

to aligned the question with your post and keep on topic of this thread the question then becomes a paradox

THE QUESTION
if you were God explain how you could create the Universe with zero knowledge
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/24/2014 2:47:17 PM
the question "Which Existed First God or Knowledge?.... doesn't dispute whether God created the Universe nor dispute God's existence...it merely challenges the notion whether there were no other existence before God's existences.. ....


"doesn't dispute whether God created the universe..."

I never said it did.

"nor dispute God's existence..."

In what way is knowledge capable of existing independent of a being in which it is contained? It's a poorly formed/thought out question really. Your question is equivalent to did god exist before god existed, which is the very same paradox that I described: where does god exist EXACTLY and how/why, or is the concept god just a fallacy of logic, due to it's failure to resolve logically no matter how you look at it, or is logic inherently flawed some how, or perhaps our understanding of logic is not complete, in which case how can we make any claim to understanding knowledge at all. This is the very same paradox. For instance: if knowledge existed before god then where/how did knowledge exist, and not only this, but it also comes down to how you define god. Is god a old man with a white beard in a cloud, or the entirety of existence as a whole? Then if we are describing knowledge in terms of god as being the universe personified, in what way are we capable of defining knowledge. If knowledge supersedes god in what way should god even be able to truly grasp/comprehend knowledge?


to aligned the question with your post and keep on topic...


My post was already aligned with the topic: I cannot know what I would do if I were god, without first comprehending at the very least how we are defining god, and ideally what it would be like to be god. How can one be discussed without first discussing and coming to a satisfactory understanding of the other, and is it even possible to come to such an understanding, or is it a correct tract of logic at all?


if you were God explain how you could create the Universe with zero knowledge


I don't think that is a good question at all. What would cause god not to have knowledge? What would cause god to have knowledge?
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 207
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/24/2014 4:55:09 PM

In what way is knowledge capable of existing independent of a being in which it is contained?

the same way it existed before your existence


My post was already aligned with the topic:

I was referring to myself as to how I could change the original question I've asked and keep with the topic


I cannot know what I would do if I were god,

unfortunately that is the topic of the thread ....play like you control all the gold in the world..it's about the same


What would cause god not to have knowledge?

if God existed before knowledge....therefore God would not have knowledge


What would cause god to have knowledge?

if knowledge existed before God...God could then encounter knowledge through experience, teachings, realization, absorption, enlightenment, implants, watching television etc.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/27/2014 1:14:27 PM
...who came first...god or knowledge...what the hell? Is this even a question worth anyone's time?
 Etritonakin
Joined: 7/10/2014
Msg: 209
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/27/2014 11:19:48 PM

Is this even a question worth anyone's time?


I think so. Even if one does not believe in God, it is a good mental exercise.

Without a mind to perceive, record and process knowledge, you would just have "stuff".
Any mind would also have to be composed of some sort of stuff.
Recorded and processed knowledge is then used to change stuff -even one's own mind.
If both stuff and minds which can affect stuff now exist, at least the potential for both stuff and minds has always existed...

or... perhaps stuff and minds have always existed -not simply the potential for such. In other words, can it not be said that there has always been someTHING and someONE -even if not in their present states?

Can one exist without the other?

If there were no stuff to perceive, then a mind would not only be useless, but impossible -as it is necessarily composed of some sort of stuff.

Is it also true to say that without some sort of mind, no stuff would change?

Some see the existence of man's mind as a fortunate accident after the major accident called the "big bang" -others see it all as the intent of another mind.

Even if it were not the intent of another mind -would not then the human mind have been inevitable -not a chance occurrence, but the inevitable result of what was set in motion by the big bang?

Can anything that has been truly have been any different -or extremely different?

Can it not be said that if there were no other creative influences before man, the blueprints of not only the entire universe, but even our minds were contained within the big bang?

If there is anything that is truly random -not simply extremely complex -does it not mean that it can never be known or predicted? Is this the case -or can we conceive of a mind which could know, predict and process all?



If God now exists, has he always existed in his present state?

It is written that he can change his mind figuratively -but can he change his own mind/body literally -as we could possibly increase our own capabilities? -and/or has his mind changed with the changing of stuff and vice-versa? Has his mind affected all things and all things affected his mind?
Did he create his own body -can he change it at will? or...

If God is able to affect anything, anywhere, at any time by fiat -could it not be said that he is the mind and the universe (and beyond) is all his body?
 drinkthesunwithmyface
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/29/2014 2:06:28 PM
Yes. Good mental exercise. Well done fine sir.

But, God is supposed to be all knowledge. All knowing. Not even needing a mind though...he IS all knowledge, or something like that. So, does it apply to ask which came first, if there even is such a thing?
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 211
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/29/2014 5:32:19 PM

But, God is supposed to be all knowledge. All knowing.

God "supposedly"being All Knowing doesn't equate to God existing before Knowledge , some claim that Google is "supposedly" All-knowing


Not even needing a mind though...he IS all knowledge, or something like that

I guess "not even needing a mind" would be an indication that no knowledge existed to place in a mind ...


So, does it apply to ask which came first,

perhaps not to the religious since they are not "allowed" to perceive beyond the existence of God


if there even is such a thing?

might not some ask the same about God
 Etritonakin
Joined: 7/10/2014
Msg: 212
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/29/2014 7:17:41 PM
But, God is supposed to be all knowledge. All knowing. Not even needing a mind though...he IS all knowledge, or something like that. So, does it apply to ask which came first, if there even is such a thing?


A mind (not necessarily the human brain -but a mind of some description -and not necessarily of limited capacity) is necessary to sense -know -remember -plan, etc. -and a body is that which houses the mind and then carries out plans and actions.

I'm not sure where you got those ideas about God, but ....according to the bible, at least, God is very much like us in many respects. More correctly, we are very much like him -as we were created in his image and likeness (with the potential to be like him in almost all ways except in authority and power).

So -we're basically like God, but smaller/less capable.

Also -if he created us, he certainly had to do some thinking about it.
He is credited with the creation of the universe (though the Word who has existed forever with him and eventually became Christ actually did the creating and the "Father" did the planning), so his mind would have to be capable of planning, maintaining and directing the course of the entire universe -and his "body" would have to be capable of doing so.

We interface with our environment mostly by using our hands at this time -but God acts by fiat -a more direct interface.
Different methods and capabilities -same idea. Call it a "Universal" remote control, if you will (D'oh!).

He has power to manipulate even cosmic events simply by will -but it does not mean he does not have a "body" of some sort (the appearance of which may change by his will) -which is to say that he does have a mind and is able to move and act somehow.

Also -angels are said to be able to change form -and Christ also changed form -from spirit to flesh and then to spirit again.
It should also be noted that when he was young as a human he did not "know himself". That along with the description of our spirits returning to God -not knowing the passage of time -to be placed in another body later -means that personalities -or whatever they are -can be stored or suspended.

God communicates complex thoughts, etc -which requires a mind.

Some related verses.....

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Psa 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
Psa 104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
Psa 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
 CressB
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/30/2014 5:53:34 AM
I'm not sure where you got those ideas about God, but ....according to the bible, at least, God is very much like us in many respects. More correctly, we are very much like him -as we were created in his image and likeness (with the potential to be like him in almost all ways except in authority and power).


Ugh, if there is one thing that pisses me off about Christian it is their arrogance. What bullsh!t rationalization do you use to convince yourself that the bible has some kind of a monopoly on concepts related to what god is or isn't, or that the bible is anywhere near correct, or that the bible should be lent any more credence than the idea of Odin and Valhalla or Zeus and Olympus. Not to mention the thousands of deities that have been said to exist throughout history? Have you ever heard of Spinoza's rational proof of God?
 Baffalobill
Joined: 6/18/2014
Msg: 214
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/30/2014 8:36:11 AM
Religion / God / Satan... is all just based on mans fear of death....People go to pray... church / Mosques etc... Good deeds ... ...
5 mins later carry on like ...
Nasty ,Violent ,Primitive, Beasts...All 2 faced hypocrites !!!!
 Etritonakin
Joined: 7/10/2014
Msg: 215
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/30/2014 4:14:25 PM
Ugh, if there is one thing that pisses me off about Christian it is their arrogance. What bullsh!t rationalization do you use to convince yourself that the bible has some kind of a monopoly on concepts related to what god is or isn't, or that the bible is anywhere near correct, or that the bible should be lent any more credence than the idea of Odin and Valhalla or Zeus and Olympus. Not to mention the thousands of deities that have been said to exist throughout history? Have you ever heard of Spinoza's rational proof of God?


I said ... According to the bible, AT LEAST... meaning that the bible was one of many sources of ideas on the subject.

You apparently projected your anger onto my words -which in no way expressed arrogance or a belief in the bible's authority on the subject over other sources -regardless of what I may or may not believe personally.

I simply stated that I did not know where his ideas originated -I did not claim he was incorrect -and explained mine in more detail. Some of what I posted also related directly to the bible -some was just consideration of possibilities.

Have I heard of Spinoza's rationalinate proof of God? No-and am not interested in researching it at this time. Would you care to summarize it?
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/30/2014 5:35:45 PM
It angers me that people can't think beyond the religious texts that they were brought up with, or see them for what they really are: extremely out dated and terribly flawed first attempts at metaphysics, by humans. And everybody just keeps clinging on to that thousands of years old archaic nonsense. It's frustrating, especially coming from someone like you who seems to be a reasonably intelligent person, and then you start quoting the bible and that perception just falls through the floor.

The bible is nothing but a lie set up to make the ignorant masses behave morally during times (now ancient history) when maintaining law and order was very difficult, by means of the ultimate in reward and punishment scare tactics: BE MORAL AND LIVE FOR ETERNITY IN BLISS OR BURN IN AGONY UNTIL THE END OF TIME! why does the bible anger me? because it offends my sense of intellect and morality to the extreme: it is the biggest most immoral lie ever sold, and it is such an obvious lie that it pisses me off that humanity as a whole hasn't stood up yet and collectively abolished it practice, world wide. it is just another unnecessary system to control the masses in a time where the masses should be enlightened on a grand scale. it is the denial of reality (the true nature of things/the way thing are) and as such is the denial of important aspects of the human experience (self denial) and unhealthy both mentally and spiritually. In life, one should search for truth and find god, in stead, most people are brain washed from early childhood with a lie and MADE to believe it is the truth. Now if that isn't offensive I don't know what is.

Spinoza's Ontological Argument for the Existence of God, Part 1 of 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_ZHrKa5yI

Spinoza's Ontological Argument for the Existence of God, Part 2 of 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvXdywQUnJE
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/30/2014 6:33:54 PM
Let "God" = all-that-is.
All-that-is necessarily exists.
Therefore "God" exists.

I think that takes the prize as the most pointless mental exercise of all time. If I were a god I'd re-assemble Spinoza and make him take alternate shifts with Sisyphus for that.
 Etritonakin
Joined: 7/10/2014
Msg: 218
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/30/2014 6:46:00 PM
It is precisely that -YOUR perception falls through the floor.

Such a reaction at a mere bible quote is not universal -and has caused you to perceive me -and my intellect -incorrectly.

I do think beyond what I was taught -and also disagree with your perceptions of the bible.
Though your anger toward what has been associated with it throughout history is valid, after an extreme amount of research into the bible I am able to separate what it actually says from those things which are associated with it.
For example... Crusades, inquisitions, atrocities in the name of religion -all have nothing to do with the bible except that men used it as their excuse (as they do with other religious texts).....
Yet the bible actually speaks against such things.

Many who are taught "the bible" are taught many things which have nothing to do with the bible. They aren't actually taught the bible.
It is also true that many who speak against it have not researched it in any depth -or with an open mind.

Some of the common beliefs associated with the bible are not to be found therein -and I certainly do not agree with them. What the bible actually says makes perfect sense.
The bible does not say we go to heaven. It does not say we go to hell when we die or that there is no hope for any who have died. It seems -as with any false perception -to say many things -until further investigation shows otherwise -and even says of itself that it is purposefully written in such a way as to require in-depth investigation in order to avoid false perception. (See quote below)

I was taught certain things when I was young. People can only teach their young what they know and believe to be right at the time. I rejected much of it -did much research -and believed what I proved to be true (or what proved itself true).

I was wondering, though.....
I do my best to practice what the bible instructs -the commandments. Obeying God, not worshipping another or making likenesses of any as objects of worship, not using his name without reverence, keeping the original sabbath, honoring my parents, not lying, stealing, killing, having sex outside of marriage or wanting what is not mine....

and seeking to live peacefully with all -regardless of their beliefs.

What is wrong with any of that?

Furthermore... How might you go about -in a moral way -eradicating such things -or perhaps the people who practice them?

13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
 CressB
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/30/2014 6:59:25 PM
Ging:

There's a little more to it than that. If people need a place to say "ok I've thought about this a lot now and it will not resolve logically, so this is the place where I decide to attribute the things I don't understand to an actor beyond my capability to comprehend - and/or care to attempt to any further" and they decide to call that actor god, I think that this is much better than the alternative - and frankly I don't see any harm in it at all: I consider the ideas "the universe was conceived and persists due to a supreme intelligence" and the idea "the universe magically sprang forth from nothing" to be equally absurd. But people seem to need something. What they don't need is to be brain washed with terribly conceived ancient hocus pocus.
 CressB
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/30/2014 8:47:28 PM
I do my best to practice what the bible instructs -the commandments. Obeying God, not worshipping another or making likenesses of any as objects of worship, not using his name without reverence, keeping the original sabbath, honoring my parents, not lying, stealing, killing, having sex outside of marriage or wanting what is not mine....


This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about.


the commandments


Morality does not derive from the bible. There is no magical external being concerned with how we're interacting with one another. Life in the form of animal interactions is extremely violent, human beings are animals. Morality is derived from the reality that the individuals that comprise humanity must coexist in a confined space and compete for resources. We conform in a moral way because it provides the greatest possibility to be successful given the mandates for life that we have been instilled with by nature: survive as long as possible; reproduce; protect the next generation; expand when at all possible (this is of course taken as a popular average, many do not conform to one or more of these mandates). One does not kill others unnecessarily because doing so could bring death upon ones self. One does not steal unnecessarily because doing so could open one up to be stolen from or killed. Rape = death or harm. Adultery = death or harm. Cuvoting leads to thievery which is = death or harm, plus if it does not lead to thievery then it is still mentally unhealthy if taken to an extreme, though a little coveting is healthy, as it is usually a major factor, among others, that drives people to prduce/suceed. These are all natural/necessary aspects of life as a human being. Do you know anything about love birds? When two love birds mate they mate for life, and the bond between them is so strong that when one mate dies the other shortly follows out of depression. It is their nature and this nature manifests from the way the brain chemistry of any spacific group of animals is set up to function. All animals are subject to this, human-beings are no exception. We are communal animals, so part of our nature extends to not only ensuring the survival of the indevidual but also ensuring the survival of the group, which is where things like compassion for strangers, self sacrifice, and altruism comes from. These things may sound mistical and/or devine, but the reality is that, they are one of the greatest reasons why humans have been so successful in the game of evolution. It is nature at work and nothing more.


Obeying God


And can you give me a rational explanation as to why it is important to do this.


not worshipping another or making likenesses of any as objects of worship


Nothing but a bunch of hocus pocus designed to retain a following for the religion. Can you give me a rational explanation as to why it is important to do this.


not using his name without reverence


More nonsensical hocus pocus


keeping the original sabbath


Again useless hocus pocus


Honoring my parents.


My dad was very mentally and physically abusive to me as a child, what kind of honor does he deserve?


and has caused you to perceive me -and my intellect -incorrectly.


I don't believe it has.


I do think beyond what I was taught -and also disagree with your perceptions of the bible.
Though your anger toward what has been associated with it throughout history is valid, after an extreme amount of research into the bible I am able to separate what it actually says from those things which are associated with it.


Here you insinuate that you have a more superior understanding of the historical and interpretational land scape than I do. What evidence can you produce that proves that your interpretations of the land scape are superior to mine? I can give you many examples of my logic being superior to yours, but I'll leave you with just one really good one: out of all the religions that have ever existed or exist currently you believe that the bible is the only one that is correct. I know that this must be true because for you to believe otherwise would mean that you would the be guilty of the worship of false idols. Further, your only possible rationalization for this position of yours is exposure during early childhood: thus had you been born to Muslim parents you would be quoting the Koran to me now; if you had been born to Jewish parents you would be quoting from the Torah. You cannot possibly support this position rationally.

Really this subject is one of the most tortuously boring subjects I can think of to debate, but my own morality dictates that I try to help others when and where I can. The truth is that from a historical perspective, the the idea of a devinly inspired Bible is absolute bullsh!t. And if you think otherwise you are delusional: you have a major mental health problem an should seek help.
 Etritonakin
Joined: 7/10/2014
Msg: 221
What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 8/30/2014 11:27:12 PM
I actually try to avoid interpretation.

You are free to believe as you will -but you are making many false assumptions about me, and I really don't see any point in pointing all of them out.

"My dad was very mentally and physically abusive to me as a child, what kind of honor does he deserve?"

I'm sorry to hear that. Was he also religious? Perhaps not, but your aversion to the bible seems to be more than simply a disagreement with its teachings. I had wondered whether there was some personal experience which might be fueling the anger, but didn't want to bring up the subject. Perhaps you should work through that stuff rather than be angry with complete strangers you know nothing about. I seriously doubt the underlying issue is with religion, Christianity or the bible. I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but since you brought it up I thought I might address the subject.

To answer your question... it's not about what he deserves. It's about our selves doing the right thing regardless of the actions of others. Even if he has not earned honor, it does you -or anyone else -no good to dishonor him, and honoring him regardless can have many positive effects on him, yourself, others and future generations. Honoring him regardless could also go a long way to help you avoid being very much like him. Even if we hate that which we experience, it can take a lot of education and effort to be different.
Stealing from thieves still makes you a thief (unless you are just retrieving your own stuff, of course). Basing your morality on the morality of others is a bad idea.





Really this subject is one of the most tortuously boring subjects I can think of to debate, but my own morality dictates that I try to help others when and where I can. The truth is that from a historical perspective, the the idea of a devinly inspired Bible is absolute bullsh!t. And if you think otherwise you are delusional: you have a major mental health problem an should seek help.


That is in no way helpful -even if you had a valid point.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 9/2/2014 2:26:14 PM
gingerosity:

I think that takes the prize as the most pointless mental exercise of all time

Hehe...

I figure that a way to see all this is that everything simply is, in contrast to some kind of mind to "know" things. Everything being, independent of any entity other than it "knowing" of anything.

This might be termed a pantheistic god.
 basilisk123
Joined: 12/17/2011
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 9/10/2014 11:34:46 AM
If I was god...hmmm...
(Reads Attack on Titan manga, watches anime version again)

That will be your world. Not only do you have to deal with giant nearly indestructable monsters whose soul purpose for existance is to devour you alive, but you also have to deal with the darkest aspects of humanity on the large scale.

Basically I would give humanity a huge giant birdy and say "**** off".

That is only what half of me wants though.

The other half would be like the anime "No game, No life"

A world were violence and murder does not exist and can not exist, all conflicts will be solved by games only. So says the god of play (me)
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 9/15/2014 10:31:54 AM

Spinoza's Ontological Argument for the Existence of God


any argument for the existence of God would only result in a paradox

FOR EXAMPLE
if everything had a creator, then wouldn't that also include God?

if nothing can simply pop out of nothingness or exist without first having a creator or deriving from something that had already been created ...therefore even the creator would have had a creator..to place it in layman's terms it would mean that God had parents

but anyway when it comes to Spinoza he tried to argue that God was a "Substance" that everything else in existence or perhaps in this "Universe" derived out of necessity and that everything that existed within this substance lacked "Free Will" and was just a puppet of this Substance, an example of this is the fact that this Substance or God constantly drains energy from your body and therefore makes you dependent upon needing food and water

Spinoza was also suggesting that God as a "Substance" was about as mindless as Mother Nature but added Metaphysics to the equation in an attempt to explain where or how this substance obtained the Knowledge to create, which does nothing more than bring it back to the question that I've asked earlier .."Which existed first God or Knowledge"?

.......according to Spinoza's views it points to "Knowledge" existing first
 CressB
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What would you do, if you were a god?
Posted: 9/15/2014 12:18:51 PM
but anyway when it comes to Spinoza he tried to argue that God was a "Substance" that everything else in existence or perhaps in this "Universe" derived out of necessity


Spinoza defined his own terms, so the traditional understanding of the word substance should not be taken here, but Spinoza's definition instead:

"By substance I understand what is in itself and is conceived through itself”; “By attribute I understand what the intellect perceives of a substance, as constituting its essence”; “By God I understand a being absolutely infinite, i.e., a substance consisting of an infinity of attributes, of which each one expresses an eternal and infinite essence.”


and that everything that existed within this substance lacked "Free Will" and was just a puppet of this Substance...


That is not true. Spinoza argued that there was only one will in existance. So you are unnecessarily adding separation to entities, where by Spinoza's definition, none actually exists:

"In propositions one through fifteen of Part One, Spinoza presents the basic elements of his picture of God. God is the infinite, necessarily existing (that is, uncaused), unique substance of the universe. There is only one substance in the universe; it is God; and everything else that is, is in God."

"Proposition 1: A substance is prior in nature to its affections.

Proposition 2: Two substances having different attributes have nothing in common with one another. (In other words, if two substances differ in nature, then they have nothing in common).

Proposition 3: If things have nothing in common with one another, one of them cannot be the cause of the other.

Proposition 4: Two or more distinct things are distinguished from one another, either by a difference in the attributes [i.e., the natures or essences] of the substances or by a difference in their affections [i.e., their accidental properties].

Proposition 5: In nature, there cannot be two or more substances of the same nature or attribute.

Proposition 6: One substance cannot be produced by another substance.

Proposition 7: It pertains to the nature of a substance to exist.

Proposition 8: Every substance is necessarily infinite.

Proposition 9: The more reality or being each thing has, the more attributes belong to it.

Proposition 10: Each attribute of a substance must be conceived through itself.

Proposition 11: God, or a substance consisting of infinite attributes, each of which expresses eternal and infinite essence, necessarily exists. (The proof of this proposition consists simply in the classic “ontological proof for God's existence”. Spinoza writes that “if you deny this, conceive, if you can, that God does not exist. Therefore, by axiom 7 [‘If a thing can be conceived as not existing, its essence does not involve existence’], his essence does not involve existence. But this, by proposition 7, is absurd. Therefore, God necessarily exists, q.e.d.”)

Proposition 12: No attribute of a substance can be truly conceived from which it follows that the substance can be divided.

Proposition 13: A substance which is absolutely infinite is indivisible.

Proposition 14: Except God, no substance can be or be conceived."


suggesting that God as a "Substance" was about as mindless...


I do not see where it makes any such suggestions? You are unnecessarily separating things again: if we have mind then "god" necessarily has mind (and to the exact same degree) because there is no difference between the two. The problem is that you are limiting your point of view of "mind" to the human brain and perception.
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