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Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 58
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Friend zone Page 4 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I'm not sure how old you are but if young, you may have to wait until you are appreciated for your "parental" ways by someone who isn't lead my her hormones. Most young women want "studs" for the most part. It's a bio thing. (they'll later complain about their "choice" because the stud doesn't behave like a good "parent" though, usually to their friend zoned "friends").

Get this and quit pining.

Can you wait till she's over menopause? Over 40? lol. Because until at least then, she will NOT settle for someone she is not attracted too. Hormones rule in the sexual department.

That is why relationships should not be taken too serious until we mature. Sadly, (for some) they can't enjoy themselves and just appreciate their youthful ways.

Young people should concentrate on their life and learn to be the best person, healthiest, fun, happening, aware person they can be. Loneliness is not an issue for those that do. Neither is desperation. These mature types don't pine for an unavailable woman.

OP< if she wanted you, she'd be all over you by now- sexually, she's not. (even if she's "slipped" before and you managed to cop a feel). I hope if this did happen, you pushed her away.

Just because she is single, that doesn't make YOU attractive to HER. Simple. You don't turn her on. She deserves that.

If she ever did give you a chance, chances are in 3 weeks you'd be back on here again saying...

"My girlfriend doesn't want to have sex with me anymore!"

Do you really want her to "fake it" just because you are too dumb to just appreciate being her friend?

Can't you "man up" and look for someone who is into you? If you quit feeding your fantasy you CAN.

Back off, she doesn't WANT you. No matter how great you think you'd be for her.

Leave your friend alone, she's made herself clear and she's going through relationship withdrawl's.

If you don't, you're not a good friend, never mind boyfriend material.

Get a life. A REAL one.
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 59
Friend zone
Posted: 9/6/2013 4:19:41 PM

I disagree, technically. You believe you cannot create/increase attraction, but you can kill/decrease attraction. Although I agree it's much Easier to kill it than create it, I believe someone can "create" it. I believe that because "creating" attraction is the same as increasing it, for all practical purposes.

No, I believe you cannot "create" - "increase" is different, IMO.

This doesn't mean I'm saying one can create/increase attraction with anyone or even at any time.

Good. We agree on this.

Someone can lack enough attraction to "be into them". But, as time goes on, they develop an affinity to them. You're saying they couldn't have played a conscious role in that, to increase attraction to the level to be into them? People want to be in total control of how they feel, what they like, etc. They don't want to be told that some guys you're not that into, under the right circumstances and applied methods, can play the role to have them like you -- and it not being serendipity, fate, just-happened, *I*-changed-my-feelings (all me!), etc.

I'm saying if it ain't there - you can't put it there. If someone's sort of attracted you can build on that - but I wasn't addressing that. Also, I don't agree that people want to be in control of what they feel - however if they don't feel anything someone can't apply a formula that will make it different.

However, of course one can increase or decrease the level of attraction one has toward them. The person in question doesn't have total control. Neither person does.

You can control killing attraction, just be offensive and insulting or gross, or something similar. You can also increase an underlying attraction by not screwing up that attraction with stupid behavior.

EX: Girl at a bar doesn't really like meeting guys at the bar. She's very cliquey. If you're someone who doesn't know anyone she knows, unless you're like famous or modelesque, pretty much, bye-bye (isn't she so cool??). A guy walks up and starts talking to one of her friends and she's rolling her eyes. The guy's buddy smiles, waiting alongside as she is while the two talk. This girl is not attracted to the buddy. He then tries to start convo with her and she's barely talking, trying to be polite... then something clicks. Oh, they both went to the same private college... and had that same teacher.... OMG, you were the guy in the other row always asking those questions... omg. They banter for a while... she opens her eyes and yeah, she thinks, he's kinda cute and seems really cool. Now she has some attraction. How he presented himself could have made her Run, it could have kept her patient & semi-polite, or it could have made her open her eyes.

This is no indication there wasn't ever attraction - there may have been a perceived lack of common interest and a wall up initially that came down with conversation. But if she's totally not attracted no matter what, that's going to be the end of it regardless of conversation.

Just like someone may cut off their mindset of being attracted to anyone (who doesn't scream Hot) due to uncomfortable circumstances (like being at a [gasp] bar), they can also open up to be attracted to someone due to a very comfortable circumstance to them (omg, we had the same class! you're making me feel so comfortable now talking since that guy's stealing my friend's attention!).

Attraction isn't a choice. What you do about it is. You either react to someone physically or you don't. You don't change your mindset to suit your lifestyle when it comes to attraction. You may ignore attraction when the person isn't what you think you should be dating - but the attraction will either be there or not with neither person having much choice.

Anyway, point being, yes, you can increase attraction. Sometimes attraction is locked away due to circumstances or unlikeable impressions/vibes that they can dismantle. Again, it doesn't mean there's any magic tricks -- it's reading people, adjusting to the right gear to appeal in the right way, etc... in some situations. Low % shot? Usually, yes.

My post was on create, not increase, so we don't disagree here.

And you can only increase attraction so much. How much depends on the reason they're not attracted.

Joined: 8/21/2013
Msg: 60
Friend zone
Posted: 9/6/2013 6:01:13 PM
I've had similar thing. I liked and cared for her a lot for years, eventually told her I had feelings for her. And the friendship only went down from there.... though later I found out that she also had feelings for me.. doesn't matter now though, don't be so stuck on her, she knows what she wants and if the truth was known, there are better women out there than her.
Joined: 6/9/2009
Msg: 61
Friend zone
Posted: 9/6/2013 6:44:32 PM
Yes , but the main problem is the players and pick up artists are the ones the women keep selecting . For some reason they just keep going back to that well over and over etc .
Joined: 10/13/2010
Msg: 62
view profile
Friend zone
Posted: 9/8/2013 9:51:36 PM
Hey proteaus why would you want to be with a woman that keeps going back to the same dirty well over and over again? The goal is to find a woman that knows what is up and can make sound decisions. Those type of women are rare!
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 63
view profile
Friend zone
Posted: 9/9/2013 8:54:12 AM

No, I believe you cannot "create" - "increase" is different, IMO.

You can "create" - as long as you aren't UN-attractive. Most people are some variance of 'average,' so most people have the potential to change themselves to a point to be attractive or unattractive to multiple people with simple grooming/personality changes.

The easiest example of this to use is that an overweight woman/man can lose 100 pounds and be attractive to people that were not attracted to them at all before.

As another example, my base personality is hugely introverted (not shy, just introverted), prefering to just observe situations or leave them in many cases. Without the more "attractive" aspects of my personality on display, many won't be attracted to me. But, if they were to see my extroverted side first, many of those same people would be attracted. So, part of it is situational, as well.

The main issue is that if you're consciously trying to force attraction, you're already doing it wrong, as in doing so, you almost always showcase unattractive parts of yourself. Self improvement for self improvement's sake, on the other hand, is attractive in itself, and leads to body and personality changes that would make you attractive to people that wouldn't find you so otherwise.
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 64
Friend zone
Posted: 9/9/2013 12:31:18 PM
No, I believe you cannot "create" - "increase" is different, IMO.

Creating is the same as increasing. Creating is increasing it from Zero to at least something. Yes, there's attraction one could Not be able to "create", if one's so unattracted to them that it's far into a negative. But "zero" meaning they're not into them doesn't mean they're repulsed on a physical scale shared with most other humans. Zero meaning they're not into them. It's a fact, although not incredibly common, that people can go from Zero->substantially positive in their attraction to someone. Attraction was created, by increasing from (for all practical purposes) zero to something notable.

Also, I don't agree that people want to be in control of what they feel - however if they don't feel anything someone can't apply a formula that will make it different.

First, people don't like being told what they like and what they don't, let alone being told things can be done to break a seal to have them like someone in a particular situation when they didn't before. It makes someone feel like some pet animal. Folks generally do not like to hear or believe that. It's unempowering.

I'm not saying there's some textbook formula to woo someone to like you when they don't. But there are various things one can do, which can have success in some situations, and it's not a "formula", where they can have someone who wasn't into them start to have some interest (and build from there). It happens. It's a fact. People like to say the other person didn't make adjustments (like a football game), just that the attraction came to them (insert fairy dust here).

You can also increase an underlying attraction by not screwing up that attraction with stupid behavior.

That's not increasing it necessarily. Many times that will just make it hover where it is, if all one does is not do anything stupid. If a peer within a social group that Sally's attracted to just doesn't do anything stupid, one can't bank that it'll increase her attraction in him ("that's all you have to do, man!"). If she's already attracted though, yes, he doesn't need to woo her or do anything to really turn the other cheek in how she looks at him. Nothing drastic required.

This is no indication there wasn't ever attraction - there may have been a perceived lack of common interest and a wall up initially that came down with conversation.

In that example I gave, I think you're being dogmatic with your POV. You're saying since she did become attracted to him, she had to have had attraction in the first place, which I disagree with. Although that May be true, it is certainly not, necessarily. People's walls can make them truly not attracted -- even explicitly turned off. Their walls can perceive people differently, unfairly, etc. Just like one's wow-factor toward someone across the room can make them perceive that person differently and over-favorably.

There are many instances where girls will share stories about the guy they've been dating, where they say they weren't attracted to him, but later on, they were. And everyone in the social circle could see that leaf change. Call it childish, call it immature -- that's a whole other story. But sorry, it happens. And not limited to 18-21 year olds, either. I've experienced it myself with a 40+ yo woman.

Attraction isn't a choice.

Never implied it was. Yes, you can't consciously "will" yourself to like someone just-because. People try that when they meet someone who's great on paper and great for parents to meet and "try to like them", when they don't and causes issues. Someone having a helping hand in increasing the other's attraction, whether it be from zero or very little, to something notable, isn't about that.

What you do about it is.

And what you do to help increase attraction from nothing-to-something, or not-really-much-to-something-significant, too.

I think our main difference is that you believe that if someone isn't attracted to someone, it's on the same level (of attraction) as being repulsed beyond belief... and that if they're not attracted, they can & never will be under any circumstances that the other person can have a hand in. I disagree with that. And from what I wrote above, one can create attraction where there merely wasn't any. Can -- as in possibly.

More Clear Example: Sally's not attracted to Bobby who comes home to visit everyone every holiday. Bobby has had a crush on her before, she's made it clear years ago she's not into him. She thinks his personality is just fine, his looks aren't Bad really -- she's just not attracted to him. Bobby went on an awesome diet and workout regimen, and 6 months later she sees him and he's ripped. She's attracted to him. It's not her "choice". It was his doing. Betty might not be that into him regardless. But Sally is. His "scheme" created attraction.
Joined: 6/9/2009
Msg: 65
Friend zone
Posted: 9/9/2013 8:07:43 PM
@ msg 76 : I hadn't thought about it that way before , thank you . That gives me a whole different angle to look at things from .
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 66
Friend zone
Posted: 9/10/2013 8:39:55 AM
actually, "creating" isn't the same as "increasing", b/c increasing means working with what's there.

If we could create something from nothing, we'd finally explain how the universe was created from nothing :)

people want different things from relationships. Some want validation, some want company, some want a sexual score, some want a healthy sharing of life experiences, some will overlook looks in order to get their type of personality, some want children before the biological clock rings its bell, et cetera. thus, you may be what someone is physically attracted to, but you aren't the conquest (b/c you're obviously interested) they need to feel good about themselves by winning over, so you stay on their back burner. Or maybe you aren't serious enough to be the life partner they're looking for so they can feel they are finally a success in life (home, 2.3 kids, picket fence, etc). or maybe she's comfortable with her sexuality, and you are still stuck in feeling uncomfortable about being sexual with a woman, so she knows the sex won't be as good as she would want it to be.

as for bobby and sally...she was already interested. she could enjoy his personality, his looks weren't bad, it was just his body shape. he clicked two out of the three important to be relationship material. so, he built upon the interest already there. He "increased" what was already there, rather than "created" what wasn't there.
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 67
Friend zone
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:50:26 AM
actually, "creating" isn't the same as "increasing", b/c increasing means working with what's there.

Technically a different word, yes, due to it applying to different circumstances, whether the circumstances being very close to the same or very different. I put "creating" in quotes to note that it is increasing -- because a LEVEL does exist -- it being "no, I'm not attracted" or possibly even "no, I'm grossed out" (solidly negative). It's all increasing -- but that doesn't mean there was some actual attraction there. When there is merely no attraction there, it's essentially at Zero. Hence, you apply the term "creating" when they then have some attraction, because they didn't start out with any in the first place. Both are increasing -- it's just what it applies to. The thing that's always there is the Level. Level being Zero or lower, "creating" is applied. You "create" it when it increases from Zero or less, that's all.

as for bobby and sally...she was already interested.

I disagree. If I walk into a bar observing... and Bobby's 60lbs overweight and girls aren't into him... he's kind of a lazy slob, etc... Betty & Sally both say that they're not attracted to him, and it's no surprise obviously. Okay...

But if I think "Wait. If he goes out on a workout & diet regimen and gets ripped, gets a new wardrobe and gets his self esteem back because of all that because of the rewards he'll get... Sally could be attracted to him, and maybe Betty too." So I can tell Sally "You ARE attracted to him." Let's say he never changes his body type and everything else. A year, 5 years, 7 years, etc later she'd be laughing at me and kind of wigged out that I think her tastes are so sub-par.

But say he does. And a year later Sally is attracted to him. I would be Incorrect to say that Sally WAS attracted to him in the first place. Heck, she could have been UNattracted to him in the first place and then become attracted -- a steeper climb of creating attraction he did.

Attraction levels Can change. Just because it's not the norm and usually existing in people's hopes rather than reality doesn't mean it doesn't happen. People end up losing attraction in their bf/gfs over long periods of time. It doesn't mean they never had any actual attraction to them. And people end up becoming attracted to someone they Never had ANY attraction toward.

Just because there's always a Level of attraction -- negative, zero, or positive -- doesn't mean there's always some attraction. When we say there's no attraction -- it's at Zero (or lower). When we say they're Not That Into You, it means it's a bit in the positive, but, it's stopped at a level where it's not enough for them to Really Be Into You.

We call it "creating" when there is none (Zero), or worse -- but then later, they are. Whether it be only a bit but that's about it, or possibly given some time building up higher into them Being That Into You.

You can make the argument that they always were attracted to some level if Bobby never really changed. That may be true when the person in question didn't change anything that would change his attraction level to the masses (but not necessarily).
Joined: 1/22/2013
Msg: 68
Friend zone
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:09:04 AM
There is a huge difference between attraction and spark.

A person can feel that a person is attractive but not have an attraction

A person can feel a spark with someone they don't necessarily find physically attractive as much as they are attracted period (usually there is physical attraction; but sometimes it's chemistry pure and simple; and it can be overhwelming sometimes)

Usually if a person feels zero chemistry in the beginning that stays the same.

But if a person does not find someone attractive in the beginning; that can frequently change (or go in reverse if the person was attractive but a boring narcissistic dolt LOL).

A person's level of attraction can frequently grow from 0; but if a person is a negative (if the person overwhelmingly repulses another person; that is usually not just based on physical featres; it's usually a "vibe" that produces a strong disconnect.

So a person who strongly runs away will not change their mind. But a person who maybe finds a person boring, not worth a second look, non interesting, can actually change their mind if something catches their attention and intrigues them.
Joined: 5/23/2013
Msg: 69
Friend zone
Posted: 9/10/2013 1:53:03 PM

I told her I had feelings for her about 3 years ago and she said she just cared for me as a friend.

I came upon a situation of this nature, and dissolved it rather quickly. This is the point you go with your gut, not your hearts. Your desires are either the same or they are not. It is self defeating to continue this journey of disappointment. Bail sir, bail now.
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 70
Friend zone
Posted: 9/11/2013 9:08:03 AM

There is a huge difference between attraction and spark.

Depends on the context in which "attraction" is used. Not necessarily a huge difference or really any difference, but there can be a distinct difference, yes. Again, the context. Some people will say "I didn't feel a spark" but still see attractive qualities about the person -- but really, They are not attracted to the person, definitively. Many times (no, not all) there wasn't a "spark" is because They weren't attracted to that person -- whether they saw attractive qualities or not.

A person can feel that a person is attractive but not have an attraction

Yes, I totally agree. Again, the context, right? :) I can look at Sally and think "She's got a nice a$$, keeps in shape... nice eyes and all... for some reason, I'm just... not into her." I'm not attracted to her.

Just because I find things attractive about someone, doesn't mean, as an Overall Accurate definition, that "I'm attracted to her". That's just PC bullsh!t if I claim that I am, but many people push to do so.

Usually, there's no "spark" because they don't at the end of the day, have an attraction toward that person. Many times this is realized well before the end of the day (lol). Sometimes not.

It's usually the attraction first that helps allow that "spark" to occur. And many times, all "spark" means is that they are definitely attracted to that person AND things went well (which kept it or increased it).

Yes, someone can find someone not-so-attractive, but then there's a "spark" -- not that they went to the bathroom, changed clothes, bathed, lost 25lbs, and shaved. But a banter that makes them hum on the same frequency... not very often when they're not really attracted to them. Usually they end up finding them somewhat attractive and/or trying to be nice and make a pleasant experience out of the date, but still not enough, while the other person thinks "they're in". But yes, once in a while -- bingo -- it makes them actually have enough attraction to gain some traction.

But again, usually, if they're not attracted toward them, there's not going to a "spark". If they were attracted to them initially but that got lost because that person had horrible communication skills or talked about things repulsive or revealing in a very negative way -- in the end, they're not attracted toward them -- no "spark".
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