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 house_full_of_bullets
Joined: 8/22/2011
Msg: 26
Dustin Hoffman's interviewPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
To all of you applauding Hoffman's interview: let's say you heard the same thing from a person you were dating on say, the second date. Would you be applauding him/her then?
 theanswerguy2
Joined: 4/3/2013
Msg: 27
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/11/2013 6:46:20 PM
and if he had met her at a party he would never have gotten a chance to know her; because of his being told what was appropriate in public;



that people don't "see" because of what we're told we're supposed to want.


Apparently I missed that memo back in "1984" from George Orwell's "thought police".
 moonbeamlover
Joined: 1/22/2013
Msg: 28
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 12:15:53 AM
wow.. apparently this particular topic is REALLY good at evaluating people's mindsets regarding cynicism.

The cynical (he's acting; he's full of sh*t, he's just trying to get people to approve of him)

The want nothing to do with hollywoods (he's an actor; who does he think he is telling us what he thinks?)

The people who agreed with him who did not turn away because an actor happened to say the words

Those who don't get what he was trying to say (it was not on dating; it was on how powerful the media's driven sales of what is supposed to be attractive to people overall that more than some people buy it without making up their own mind; and don't bother to see a person who is right in front of their face in a one on one situation (not 7 million people, but one). Again, not for dating; but for even bothering to exchange a few sentences with.

Those who didn't get that he wasn't lamenting that he didn't look pretty. He was lamenting the fact that he, in becoming a woman, realized firsthand that she (the woman he became for the duration of the movie) would not be looked at, listened to or heard by many people, because of the averageness of her looks; and he realized how many "Dorothys" he had in fact missed out on getting to know... maybe I am a gullible idiot, but I honestly believe he was feeling both regret and shame for lost opportunities, and his wasting of them.

He was not saying people had to be dated; that was not what it was about. It was about people being invisible, who had a ton of worthwhile things to say.

For those who think society does not dictate what people consider beautiful, look at the magazines for youth, look at what people say about dancers on tv shows who are size six who are called fat cows... those who make jokes about the short bald men in tv shows... it is not an accident that one in four girls has an eating disorder growing up now. It's an incredibly chronic problem. And if people think that MANY people are not colored by what society says is attractive, well, they maybe aren't themselves, but a very good majority very much are.

If Hollywood is one of the huge entities who is helping set the trend, can I (and a few other non cynical souls out there) appreciate someone from Hollywood saying hey wait a minute, we are selling the wrong product...

To those cynical souls who think he's offering a crock of whatever, cool, more power to you thinking it. But just because you believe he's either selling himself, wasting space or are completely misunderstanding his point, doesn't mean that we can't appreciate the message behind the words. Even if it did come from an actor.

I loved what he said. 100%. Even if he is an actor. I can appreciate your cynicism. Your choice. But you need to offer me the same respect to appreciate how I took his message that I offer you in turning your nose up at it.

You hear tomato, I hear tomahto.

peace.
 Howdy_From_Harry
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 29
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History
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 3:20:24 AM
.
I think women have trouble believing this but Hoffman learned what most men learned at a much younger age. Don't forget too, he's an actor. You don't know if he was for real or not. I think he was. He's pretty much my choice for best actor I've ever seen though, and it doesn't have anything to do with this interview.
.
 JGirlSD
Joined: 1/25/2013
Msg: 30
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 5:53:53 AM
I agree Moonbeamlover

Nothing to do with dating at all. He may have been dramatizing it, but I think he really meant what he was saying. I am one of those average and invisible people. I have a lot to offer, not only in dating but in friendship and other things. But I am not what the media pushes as attractive or what people have come to feel comfortable with, so I go on with my life with the people who do find me pleasant to look at and who are smart enough to go beyond the looks.

We all have our little circles, so perhaps we are shielded from this, but I agree with him. And YES, I am guilty...no one is immune. But we can learn. When I am out and about, I now try to pay attention to people who smile at me and when a man approaches me I am friendly even if he isn't 'perfect'. It's amazing how many wonderful people I am meeting .. since I took off the blinders.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 31
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 6:45:41 AM

To all of you applauding Hoffman's interview: let's say you heard the same thing from a person you were dating on say, the second date. Would you be applauding him/her then?


Of course. Did you even watch the interview?
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 32
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 7:18:30 AM
I get what the message is all about, lots of people do look through others and do not engage in conversation etc. And I am glad that posters are reiterating that this isn't pertaining to dating, it is a generalization of people not naturally engaging in talking to whoever, regardless of status, looks etc. When I talk or engage in conversation with someone, I am in that moment and not looking at their status, looks or anything else other then the stories being told or listened too. This is where society fails on the whole, lots of people are only about "them" and you see it all the time when the so called conversation is always one sided, and that side is the other persons. So if Hoffman was talking about people in general not engaging in conversation and looking past others, then I get it. I subscribe to that theory all the time. Not sure if the thread belongs in the online relationship dating forum because, like a few have said, it has absolutely nothing to do with dating. Problem is I think there is some underlying reasons why it is in here and I will leave any further opinions I have on that until I hear more about this thread.
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 33
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 7:39:21 AM
I get what he is saying and have been trying to not judge people solely based on how they look for a very long time now.

It is sad that it takes an actor to share his growth in order to get others to have a dialoge about these things.

We see it daily...the hobo who saved a woman from being mugged...gets stabbed himself and people walk right by him bleeding to death on the sidewalk...not knowing he was just a major hero...because he was dirty and poorly dressed. (even if he wasnt a hero, why ignore a life that is slipping away right under your 'clean' feet?? Because he isnt as good as you are, that is why and that was all based on how he looked and nothing else)

Yes...I can see being afraid to approach, it could be a set up and he may lunge at you and attack. So slip into a store/use your cell and tell them to call 911 for gawds sake. At least.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 34
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History
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 11:24:42 AM
I don't really care about heartfelt interviews from stars or other celebrities. Hint...they are actors and never stop acting when there is a microphone in front of them. They are pros at manipulation.

I agree with a comment above...in real life hopefully most women would not fall for a liar, deceiver who dresses in woman's clothes.
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 35
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 12:34:13 PM

You miss the point. Because you were good looking, you had the opportunity to meet people. The Opportunity was yours to do with as you pleased. You could choose to be vapid or deep, but you had the choice. People not so similarly situated lack even the choice because the opportunities are fewer and further apart.

The above is why I have a hard time understanding DH's perspective.


The same sort of thing occurred to me. Apparently up to age 50 DH treated average looking women like mindless autotrons that were more like servants than equal human beings.

Then he had an epiphany that you can be average looking and still be a worthwhile person to talk to and get to know.

Of course not date, but you can talk to them.

I thought he was genuinely surprised about this.
 BorderCollieMix
Joined: 7/4/2013
Msg: 36
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 1:01:35 PM
And yet, let's remember that DH is hardly "attractive" by objective standards. Were he not an actor--say, he was just another fishy--I wonder how he would fare on POF? I don't think he is at all handsome, not what bit. But boy, is he attractive! And if I only saw a still photo on a dating site, I'd never know that about him!
 DoubleParked
Joined: 10/22/2008
Msg: 37
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 2:04:05 PM
A little OT, but awhile back on some morning talk show the guest being interviewed was a man who underwent a sex change operation and was now a woman. As a man he was quite tall and sort of averagely handsome. He worked as an accountant and was very competent, his coworkers looked up to him, considered him quite intelligent and capable.

So after all his surgeries, he was now living as a woman. A tall woman, handsome and statuesque...She had relocated to a city where no one knew her history and found a job similar to the one she had before. Except now, her input in meetings was routinely dismissed, she was expected to 'get coffee', overlooked when promotions came up, all the usual stuff 'invisible middle-aged women' deal with all the time. His/Her brain had not atrophied, s/he still retained all the knowledge and experience gained from the previous years spent in his/her chosen field, but NOW because the outside 'package' had changed, the way s/he was perceived by the world had changed.

Perhaps Mr Hoffman was experiencing the 'invisibility phenomena' simply because he was perceived as a female, and his 'prettiness' or lack of ,had nothing to do with his experience. He just got a little taste of what a lot of women deal with every day---being dismissed simply because we are female.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 38
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History
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 3:55:17 PM
No doubt, a part of my seeming skepticism about Hoffman's epiphany, comes from having read many many such interviews and emotional stories of "understanding and insight" from a lot of different actors.

I have no doubt that Mr. Hoffman is a caring and genuine person. However, I have read many such stories of how this or that person dressed up as a persecuted or commonly rejected or ignored person for a while, and upon finding that they were no longer able to vamp with the "hot crowd," they genuinely believed that they'd gained some great empathetic insight to what it is to be someone other than who they'd always been before.

I read where the white guy who disguised himself as a black man, back in the fifties, felt he had learned a great deal about being black. I read where Gwyneth Paltrow felt that she had gained tremendous understanding of what it was to be overweight and plain looking, while she was making the movie Shallow Hal in 2001. I read many stories told by politicians who said that they limited their expenses to match what the poor people had available to them, in order to gain deep and meaningful insight into what it is to be poor in the United States.

What all of those interviews and stories had in common, were that everyone who was telling them, had no past, and no future as the kind of person that they thought they had experienced so much in common with. All of them had spent their entire lives up until that moment, as whatever and who ever they actually were, and all of them were able to wipe off the makeup, and unleash the checkbook, and go back to their original lives again.

I do very much support that they did try to improve their understanding of things, don't misunderstand. But none of them really changed their lives. Hoffman might or might not begin to show more consideration for the less 'hot' people of the world because of his insight. I would hope that he would. But as I said, I also know that it is an essential part of modern actor training, that the actor "immerse themselves" as thoroughly as possible in the kind of life that their character had to lead. In the case of Paltrow and Hoffman's somewhat similar claimed epiphanies, that meant thinking a lot , and noticing a lot, that they were getting ignored by the world, now that they weren't "with it." Believing that "everyone ought to appreciate everyone regardless of status and so forth" is an essential part of immersion in that sort of character.

Hence again, I can only be marginally moved by this particular deep and meaningful comprehension on this one person's part.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 39
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 4:42:38 PM

Perhaps Mr Hoffman was experiencing the 'invisibility phenomena' simply because he was perceived as a female, and his 'prettiness' or lack of ,had nothing to do with his experience. He just got a little taste of what a lot of women deal with every day---being dismissed simply because we are female.


Interesting.

I’ve never thought this way. I don’t remember ever feeling invisible. I’ve never perceived male employers as being somehow better than I am, simply because they’ve signed my paychecks and were male….and if he is signing my paychecks, he’s the boss and I’ll cheerfully bring him a cup of coffee. Feeling “dismissed,” or angry or any other negative way only hurts ME. I don’t believe in letting someone else control my emotions.

Being dismissive of other human beings is not an enviable, esteemed trait, IMO. A job is a job, it pays the bills but it doesn’t define me, unless I allow it to.

I don’t give ANYone that much power over me.


I think women have trouble believing this but Hoffman learned what most men learned at a much younger age.


I believe it. …..to me this is one of those things we all should have learned in kindergarten.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 40
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/12/2013 8:03:35 PM

And yet, let's remember that DH is hardly "attractive" by objective standards. Were he not an actor--say, he was just another fishy--I wonder how he would fare on POF?


If he was a regular peon, he wouldn't stand a chance of landing a date. His height is listed as 5 ft 5 3/4 in. He doesn't meet the minimum requirement of 6 feet tall that most women demand. Plus he doesn't have a gorilla on steroids physique that a lot of women also demand.
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 41
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/13/2013 9:32:28 PM
But again, like so many women have said, this thread has nothing to do with dating. In fact, it really doesn't belong here, belongs in another section. I think you could put anyone in front of a microphone and if they truly were sincere, they would say the same thing that DH said. This is about human beings treating others with dignity, not about dating.
 moonbeamlover
Joined: 1/22/2013
Msg: 42
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/14/2013 2:17:36 AM
^^

It goes both ways for both genders... the most beautiful people in the world stop being beautiful early on if they are entitled, arrogant and people who might not be conventionally attractive initially can become extremely attractive once the sense of humor, kind heart, wit and confident respect combine along with the physical. Keep knowing you WILL be appreciated; not all women are that shallow and self destructive that they latch onto someone who treats them bad because they are just a pretty face and attitude. Some of us are evolved from that.



But again, like so many women have said, this thread has nothing to do with dating. In fact, it really doesn't belong here, belongs in another section. I think you could put anyone in front of a microphone and if they truly were sincere, they would say the same thing that DH said. This is about human beings treating others with dignity, not about dating.


You have made reference twice now to where this thread was put. But you keep calling this online dating relationships topic... where in the name of this topic is dating? I don't see it anywhere. Dating is two topics down. This one is relationships.

A relationship can be dating, it can be friendship, it can be casual acquaintance, it can parent/child; it can be many things, only one of which is dating. Dating is a different topic up here; and that topic I did NOT put this thread in. This one to me is the relating one person with another, whether in a short term or long term,romantic or friendly, strangerbecoming friend (if noticed) or acquaintance that was he felt missed out on by many people because they had in his mind been brainwashed to literally not see a person, to interact with or become friendly with in any way solely based on societal's rules of what was noteworthy. And he felt that those who passed by those opportunities were depriving themselves of something special. So yes it people being treated with dignity; but more than that. It as people being seen and recognized as having value worth learning.

So yes the location was on purpose; though I confess I'm more than a little curious what big bad reason you thought it was put in here for. I'm fine with it being moved but I honestly don't get why it's such an issue where it is.


 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 43
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/14/2013 9:02:47 AM
"So yes the location was on purpose; though I confess I'm more than a little curious what big bad reason you thought it was put in here for. I'm fine with it being moved but I honestly don't get why it's such an issue where it is. "

There are posters who are relating this thread to dating, pure and simple. And like you say, it isn't about dating. Under the "relationship" forum, there are lots of threads about dating so it isn't like yours is any different, I am just pointing out that people need to separate what the topic is about.

For me, I am cordial with anyone that I come in contact with. Some are people that come and go in your life, that is a natural occurrence. Respect is what I give to anyone.

Saying we are brainwashed is kind of like making excuses. I don't disagree that we are shown lots of mistruths that are fed to us. The thing is, once we become adults, we are responsible for the way we act, the way we see or don't care to see how a person is. We are responsible to ourselves to decipher what the media, what other venues are saying, and what we ourselves inside as humans should really be.

DH is admitting he was wrong and that is great. Whether he, as an actor is "acting", it doesn't matter. The point is what is important and OP, I think we both would agree with the point.
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 44
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/14/2013 9:10:53 AM
^^^^When I say your thread is no different from other dating threads, that is not what I mean. You put it in the relationship forum section and other people have put threads in the relationship forums about dating. The point about people separating your thread from dating is still what I am talking about.
 moonbeamlover
Joined: 1/22/2013
Msg: 45
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/14/2013 4:53:06 PM
^^^

I think I understand. Some people might equate it to dating. In his case he said he literally did the movie as a way to illuminate to people what they may have been missing in not seeing someone in front of their own eyes. i will confess that is something I have always done so it was not important to me because I learned from it; but because someone I respect who has a little more platform in an arena that is one of the worst offenders so beautifully expressed something that I personally think is incredibly important.

There is a show about finding incredibly valuable antiques in garage sales and flea markets; can't remember what it's called... but I will confess I have always striven to do that with people; finding the person who comes across as angry, hostile, closed, maybe a little disheveled, and see if I can discover the inner "treasure" in them in my interacting with them. One of the people I have come across that I most appreciate meeting was an escaped political prisoner from Uganda who was literally still running for his life; being hunted by Ugandan authorities, and yet he was in the states trying to help people HERE. He was covered in scars, strong thick accent, absolutely physically a mess, and yet he had a beautifully magical smile and an incredibly kind spirit, and was all about other people and their pain and joy; not acknowledging the fully 12 years of constant torture and isolation he had been subjected to. He was one of the most beautiful people I have ever met; even though in terms of physical perfection he was scared, dishevelled, skinny and someone most would literally run from in a dark alley as terrifying.

So I agree with you that it is more than dating; but also say it is more than civility; it is finding the inner treasure in the people we bump across every day; and keep ourselves open for something special. Because those exposures can lead to acquaintances, friendships, and possibly even more; ith people that we will never get the joy of discovering; if we don't bother to see them when they are in front of our face.
 ChocolateSugarRush
Joined: 7/9/2013
Msg: 46
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 7/29/2013 8:39:31 PM
Op my big sister told me about that interview. I for one have always been over looked because I have very strong African features and a chubby body. I never have been a person to not give a guy a chance. I've dated very heavy men before. I've messed with a guy that had his whole top grill missing. I can honesty say that I've turned down attractive men because of the way they talked or behaved themselves.
 fieryredhead77
Joined: 12/17/2012
Msg: 47
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 8/1/2013 7:59:55 PM
I wonder what is worse: to be one of the 'unnoticed' or 'noticed for the wrong reasons' As an obese person, I find that I can't go a day on these forums without someone having to put in something about fat people. Whether they are undate-able, gross, or even if referring to themselves as to why they can't get date (I'm not fat!! So why can't I find a date?!)

Even on this post, a guys makes a comment about Jewish actors and several people chastise him for being racist. But people on these forums make fat comments constantly, and everyone just agrees.

Or, you know, how fat girls are just to be used for sex to gain experience, as they all put out, right? (I hear this on the radio pretty regularly too)

The people who believe that they aren't being let to think a certain way are fooling themselves as well. American's really detest fat people. (and many other types, I am just using this as an example that I have experience with) I can go to another country and being fat is just another character trait, like having blue eyes. It really depends on what the media and culture tells you to believe.
 house_full_of_bullets
Joined: 8/22/2011
Msg: 48
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 8/4/2013 5:53:44 AM
^^^Maybe because folks on this continent don't eat as healthy as others. Many folks are discriminated against in the dating world every day - colour, nationality, religion/non-religion and the list goes on - it's not just weight. The nice thing about weight is that it is something one can change - some of the others - not so much.


Or, you know, how fat girls are just to be used for sex to gain experience, as they all put out, right? (I hear this on the radio pretty regularly too)

What idiotic radio stations are you listening to?


But people on these forums make fat comments constantly, and everyone just agrees.

No they don't. Plenty of threads out there where folks get called out over stuff like that.
 Jerilyn
Joined: 1/13/2012
Msg: 49
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 8/8/2013 3:15:50 PM
How many of us get a taste of what it would be like to be the opposite sex.. be made to look like the real deal? If we could all have an experience like DH who was transformed into a very convincing looking female for this movie... we'd all be in for an "epiphany" I'm guessing. I can believe it hurt to find out that as a woman the way he looked was the best he could be... that he couldn't be beautiful... and that so much of who he was would have been overlooked, and dismissed if he really was that woman... a humbling and powerful experience, I'm sure.
 ChocolateSugarRush
Joined: 7/9/2013
Msg: 50
Dustin Hoffman's interview
Posted: 8/17/2013 4:12:00 AM
I agree with you. I wrote a paper about this in school. The media tends to point out heavy/fat people as monsters. The media gives us all these weight loss commercials and things like that.


you know, how fat girls are just to be used for sex to gain experience, as they all put out, right? (I hear this on the radio pretty regularly too)



I've heard this as well. Most men tend to think heavy women are desperate and naïve. This is what the media and all cultures tell us believe. Loose weight you'll look better. SMH
Another thing about the media is there are very few dark skinned black women. Just pay attention to what I'm saying then your television. The NEGRO'S social status is so low that you barely see any black women, especially if they are dark skinned.
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