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 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 2
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Income Tax and benefit transparencyPage 2 of 2    (1, 2)
the Norwegians do this too. Didn't stop some of the very richest from paying very little when I was there back in the eighties.
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 5
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Posted: 7/18/2013 1:16:19 AM
Excellent post.

However, the total value of all gold ever mined would exceed US$8.2 trillion at $1500 an ounce. There simply is not enough gold in all the world to back the dollar.

I can't agree that tax dodging is a red herring, the loopholes should be closed, it would not be that difficult if the government wanted to.

A few years back someone managed to lose a disc with the details of 22 million people receiving benefits. Shock horror that this could happen. My shock was that nearly half the population were receiving benefits.
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 6
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Posted: 7/18/2013 1:30:35 AM
Billy have no fear, Mr Reynolds of Pennsylvania can solve the problem all by himself should he so wish.

Paypal have credited the lucky chap with $92,233,720,368,547,80. ($92 quadrillion)

Mr Reynolds reportedly said when he opened his statement that it had been "quite a big surprise".
 GeordieColin
Joined: 10/18/2012
Msg: 10
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Posted: 7/19/2013 2:22:35 PM
^^^ Um. Somehow I get the impression that you do not always take things seriously?
How depressing!
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 11
Income Tax and benefit transparency
Posted: 7/20/2013 7:07:39 AM

Basically we should all be brought up to believe that contributing to society, whether that means financially or maybe in some other way, rather that taking from it is the right thing to do.

I concur.
How very left-wing of you.

And since when was it a crime to work really hard all of your life and become rich ?

It isn't. (HTH)
Most people work really hard for all of their lives, but don't become rich.
Try emptying bins for 35 years.
It sounds like you're believing the 'spin' of the wealthy, who like to perpetuate the myth that we do live in some sort of 'meritocracy', and that their accumulated wealth is simply a reflection of their inherent "superiority", and "hard work".
We don't.
It isn't.

I heard some 22-year-old millionaire 'rock-star' expounding about how "hard they've worked", for what they've now got, just the other day. "4 years on the road" apparently, the poor love, I almost cried for his hardship.


It seems like there are a lot of jealous lazy spongers who spout on and on about these people believing that they're the devil or something.

Mr Cameraman seems keen to have us look at what our neighbours do, and stir up hatred by demonising the unemployed, but when we look at the 'landed gentry', it's called "the politics of envy".
It sounds like you'll do exactly as you're told.

50% of the land in this country has been in the hands of the same families for over 500 years, much of it for 1,000 years.
IMO many of our problems (in this country anyway) stem from continuing to let dead people determine the future of the living.
Those people don't work, they don't have to, because the rest of the population pays them rent, either for accommodation, or as part of the price of the food they consume, which is grown on land owned by them.
It's a form of "existence tax".

The "aspiration" of most working people, is to win the lottery, and never have to work again.
This laziness "trickles down" from the top, (contrary to your first quote above, with which I agreed), there isn't a 'work ethic' at the top of our societies. We still live in a largely feudal theocracy, which has a vested interest in perpetuating the existing 'status quo', indefinitely.


Shouldn't we be inspired by such people, like we are top athletes and footballers etc ?

No.
You're perfectly entitled to be "inspired" by whomever you choose, probably Jordan, and "Posh Spice" also...?

For some people, striving for excellence or improvement is it's own reward, and they do that, regardless of how wealthy it may or may not make them. That's true of the arts, science, and athletics, and always has been.
Footballers and athletes were still good, and still 'inspired', long before they were sponsored by Barclays, or 'Nike'.

I think people have lost sight of the wider meaning of the word "profit", and it's use has become restricted to the context of individual payments, and the accumulation of personal wealth, rather than it's more abstract uses, like quality of life, improvements to the environment, reduced risks of robbery and violence, or the benefits of improved medical (and all other) knowledge etc.

You can't 'insulate' your offspring from a truly shitty world, with massive personal wealth.

The best thing you can leave them, (from the perspective of a selfish interest in the perpetuation of your genes) is a better, safer, fairer, less unequal world. (IMO). "Guilded cages", and all that...

Until people begin to realise that, and 'buy-into' that concept, nothing will change, because I don't think it's possible to force people against their will. It needs to be voluntary IMO

I like the sentiment behind the OP though, the recent tax revelations of 'Google' and Starbucks, and Jimmy Carr, have (hopefully) been financially detrimental.


Maybe though the loony left are enjoying this dumbing down like what seems to be happening in our education system.

Yeah, that's right, like what you said...

Ad hominems, courtesy of the Daily Wail, do nothing but emphacise the paucity of any rational counter argument.
Try starting to think for yourself, don't be a stereotype.
As ever,
JMO
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 12
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Posted: 7/20/2013 8:09:56 AM
I felt this big black cloud coming over me.

I thought I had entered the house of the doomed.

I'd read JV's post. Twice. And nothing could I find that I essentially disagreed with.

What had happened? Had I been turned? Was life as I knew it, over?

I read it again. No mention could I find of Maggie being responsible for The Norman Conquest, Hiroshima or Tottenham not winning the League, again.

Then I realised what had happened. JV has finally seen the light.

The sun is out and all is well with the world once more.
 daver987654
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 13
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Posted: 7/21/2013 2:44:43 AM
I can't pretend to understand how a gold backed currency is any more stable than what we have and shall just assume you are correct.

I absolutely agree re Hodges and all politicians. I see the world has jut agreed to close all the offshore loopholes. Again.

I don't understand how these so called loopholes are allowed to exist. Mr Green pretends his wife owns his business and he is just a lackey. We all know that's not true, so why doesn't someone just bang on the door and take the dosh. Ecclestone is wandering around saying that he didn't bribe the German lawyer but the 20 million was just for him to not raise the potential tax liability of 2 billion with the UK tax authorities. This has been known for years, why is Bernie not under arrest in this country? And we have a great example in Italy of barefaced corruption. Berlusconi has been convicted so many times and is still free. The Italian statute of limitations is about to run out on him. Shame on the Italians for voting for him yet again. If blatant theft is allowed how do we stop the not so blatant?

We do need a new broom but we aren't going to get one. Anyone I asked to join me in my march on London, apart from Linda, just says that it ain't gonna change a thing.
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 15
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Posted: 7/21/2013 3:21:24 AM
IMO the solutions to most problems that are economy related are quite simple but sadly difficult to see for many people. Whenever a discussion on economic matters crops up, in RL or on t'net, people, from politicians to the man in the street, invariably resort to 'their' favoured solutions be they politically or otherwise motivated. And yet, every single one has invariably been tried and tried again and has never ever acheived what it was that was hoped for. For example, let's take unemployment.

What is it that has been tried so far to address the problem of unemployment?. Just giving a few moments thought to what has been tried I came up with.....

Tax breaks for employers, employer / union co-operation, minimum wage, increasing GDP / growing the economy, better education & training, in work benefits, reducing out of work benefits, higher wages, lower wages, no wages at all, public investment & subsidy, job creation schemes in their hundreds and yet unemployment has doggedly persisted since the war, sometimes up, sometimes down but always there regardless of what governments have tried.

It can be argued, and often is, that there is no 'magic bullet' and that it is a combination of some or all the above that will eventually provide a solution. Well after almost a centuary of trying one combination after another and getting nowhere you would think the penny would finally drop. Even if we had another 100 years, or 200 years or 300 years of doing the same things and trying the same fixes we have always done we are always going to get the same outcome we have always got in the past, ie, continued unemployment.

So if we are to accept that the employment model we currently have cannot be changed to give us what we require, ie full employment, then we have to change the way we do things. Stands to reason dunnit?. IMO, the most simple but effective way to bring about that sea change would be to immediately introduce a 30 hour week and make everyone self employed. These two simple, but powerful changes, by themselves, will be transformative to our society, in a good way, and the list of benefits to each of us would, were I to try and list them here, probably make this the longest post in the history of on-line posting.

However, in terms of just a few of their immediate impacts on unemployment we would get, an immediate reduction in the unemployment rate to virtually zero, a welcome end to both PAYE & National Insurance (both very costly to collect), an almost overnight change from having more workers than jobs to more jobs than workers, it would reduce out of work benefits costs to practically zero, end long term unemployment for ever, deliver reductions in NHS costs by billions every year, lead to the inevitable creation of a 'living wage', deliver higher productivity and profitability for employers and better health and wellbeing for us all etc. etc. etc.

As we are bombarded by the our media and politicians on a daily basis we being asked to believe that solutions which have been tried any number of times in the past, and all of which have been proven to have failed, will somehow one day give us what we desire just so long as we keep trying them again and again. Tis madness, as Mr. A. Einstein, the worlds smartest geezer used to tell us. Once you take a step back from the problem and look through the smokescreen of solutions being offered to you simple solutions to complex problems often become clearly visable. It shouldn't be too big a step from there to then realise that the introduction of a 30 hour week and making everyone self employed will result in hey ho bingo, everyone happy and all our economic problems sorted, simples...............GP
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 16
Income Tax and benefit transparency
Posted: 7/21/2013 3:40:36 AM
As far as "benefits Transparency" goes, I think that about 30% of the benefits are being paid to people who are actually in work, but don't get paid enough to live on.

The state subsidises the profits of Companies like Top-Shop, and Sainsburys, and Tescos, by allowing them to continue paying "Minimum Wage", despite being massively profitable.
So Mrs Green can have her 1.2 Billion Pound "dividend", Tax-Free of course, in Monaco, while "hard-workers" have their wages topped-up by the state, to enable them to live. (Just barely)
Incidentally, the £384 Mullion Pounds of tax thus avoided, (but not "evaded") is roughly the same amount "saved" by the "Bedroom Tax", which imposes hardship on thousands of disabled people.

The Secretary of State for Defence, Phillip Hammond, has done the same thing with his shares, transferring them to his wife, with tax savings running to hundreds of thousands of pounds.
He also abused the second homes allowance.
IMO The entire Tory Cabinet is corrupt.
HTH
"Transparency"..? Don't make me laugh....


Edited to add:
Of course, when Labour introduced "The Minimum Wage" Legislation, The tories opposed it, and warned of the dire consequences, mass unemployment etc.
They even took out full-page ad's in the press, and trotted out the 67 "Top Industrialists" (?) to warn against it, saying it would be a "disaster" for this country.
Cameron is such a twunt.
 ellymyosotis
Joined: 3/29/2013
Msg: 17
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Posted: 7/21/2013 7:46:58 AM
Agree with some and disagree with others.

The UK we choose to live in is not always the UK we are proud of.
 DAFT_DOG
Joined: 4/23/2011
Msg: 18
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Posted: 7/22/2013 9:54:46 AM
oooh ! can i be behind chuzzy please !! :O)

i ermm..... i mean with my guitar of course ! :O)
 Chuzz16
Joined: 3/26/2011
Msg: 19
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Posted: 7/22/2013 10:29:51 AM
Good goal Billy. Sorry about jumping on you and snogging your face off but I couldn't help myself. I'm only human and it was a great goal. :))


Ducky, I hope yours isn't as long as that David chappie's, you could have my eye out. :)

OT.

No...nothing I'm afraid. :(
 Nottinghamfellow
Joined: 4/5/2012
Msg: 20
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Posted: 7/22/2013 11:39:31 AM
I have bought two tubs of carte dor ice cream this evening, one strawberry and one a chocolate type of thing, but I have no idea what the tax element is. . .
 Chuzz16
Joined: 3/26/2011
Msg: 22
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Posted: 7/22/2013 12:36:44 PM
^^^^^^

If we are going to Spain Billy, I will be playing in my bikini as well as my heels. It's hot down there.

OT..


Milk first always. No tea bags. It has to be leaves in a pot and warm the pot first. Always drink from fine bone china. That is the topic now isn't it?
 Nottinghamfellow
Joined: 4/5/2012
Msg: 23
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Posted: 7/22/2013 1:09:18 PM
Speaking as a private person, I do not drink tea, or any hot drinks for that matter, and never have done. In fact I can't abide the smell of it and have no notion how it tastes. However, when I make it for others it is in a brown betty tea pot, usually with yorkshire tea bags. Served in bone china, mugs or cups. I like to leave it to those drinking it to decide but if left to my own devices, milk first in a cup and last in a mug. On the rare occasion I make it for someone in a mug, tea bag first, then sugar then water, stir, let it brew then milk, after removal of the bag. Tea bagging is of course another topic. I have not tried the ice cream now i know the government have had some of it already :-( finally, as a party piece I can play the recorder through my right nostril.
 Chuzz16
Joined: 3/26/2011
Msg: 24
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Posted: 7/22/2013 4:34:27 PM
I'm sorry Bill that our attempts at having a bit of fun has annoyed you so much. It wasn't my intention to upset or annoy anyone.

Apologies to any one else who's threads were ruined by our silly behaviour.
 DAFT_DOG
Joined: 4/23/2011
Msg: 25
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Posted: 7/23/2013 1:20:56 AM
"What a moronic bunch of clowns you people are "

"Lightshift, Nottingham, I am surprised at you. The others are just mindless idiots."

At least we`re having fun on the forums, their dreary enough as it is, plus, we`re keeping them moving, and if our interlect does`nt fit in with your idea of how it should be, then i`m sure there`s plenty of sites that would suit you, the bottom line is, the old saying, if you dont like it, then skip it and dont bother reading it.
 ellymyosotis
Joined: 3/29/2013
Msg: 27
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Posted: 7/23/2013 4:22:05 PM
I have not seen this sort of quarrel before but hope each and every one of you will reply to the thread and personally in an apology for the disrespect give to the OP
 Chuzz16
Joined: 3/26/2011
Msg: 28
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Posted: 7/24/2013 8:10:18 AM
Oh Elly,

We may all have behaved in a childish manner but none of us are children. I'm sure if people feel the need to apologise for doing nothing more than having a bit of fun they will ( see post 36). I don't think anyone needs to jump on Bill's bandwagon to tell us off.

We jumped in on a few threads, that's all. We didn't drown a sack full of puppies.
 Nottinghamfellow
Joined: 4/5/2012
Msg: 29
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Posted: 7/24/2013 12:49:39 PM
I think old bill is right and have apologised on another thread, as I was stuck on the 2 in ten comment jobbie whatsit...
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