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 Out_of_the_Ash
Joined: 3/1/2009
Msg: 51
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Managing Political Views in Couples/RelationshipsPage 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I can't be with someone who leans differently than I do, because those who lean opposite of myself are the types who would interfere with a woman's reproductive choice, and those are NOT the types of people I want anything to do with, certainly not if they are to be my best friend = spouse.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 52
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/1/2013 6:20:05 PM
I think a lot of people misunderstand political leanings (left and right) and confuse them with other ideologies.

Both liberals and conservatives can be advocates for women's rights, the environment, pro-choice and both side of the political spectrum can be on the other side of the issues above. We often assume that particular ideologies are tied to political leanings when they aren't really.

Just look at some of the people on this forums. I am a lefty way far left and there is a poster who on here who proclaimed herself to be a capitalist (normally right wing) and we agree on virtually everything but socialism/capitalism.

My conservative/capitalist guy and I agree on many of life's ideologies and have many other things in common. We do talk politics sometimes and then stop before it gets out of hand with an agreement to disagree. As an avid environmentalist, I don't even own a car, live in an apartment (smaller footprint) and he has given up on trying to change those things about me, just as I will concede and go places in a car that on my own I would take the bus or ride my bike. And when I visit him, he has given up on giving me the keys to the car in the driveway because he knows I won't use it while he is at work. He did however buy me a bike.

So I can live with the different political view, we don't push our view on each other and we respect the other view point. We have lively discussions and I do regularly tell him that someday he will move away from the dark side. (It is a joke)
 mjinict
Joined: 8/13/2008
Msg: 53
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Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/1/2013 9:16:31 PM
The guy I have been dating and I differ considerably in our politics. We can get into some heated debates but try not to resort to personal attacks. Fortunately, they have lessoned since the election. I try to find common ground, but he has his 'ideology'. I would just like for him (and others) to follow reputable news sources and not just parrot the devisive talking heads, only watching certain news channels and never any others (tunnel vision)... to keep and open mind, and willing to adjust beliefs accordingly.
 35brock
Joined: 3/20/2013
Msg: 54
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/2/2013 12:23:59 PM
It would only be a dealbreaker if someone's political views were extreme on either end and/or they were unable to respectfully disagree with anyone that had different views.
 jlynn1955
Joined: 8/24/2012
Msg: 55
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Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/2/2013 12:29:49 PM
I do not talk politics, religion, or football with other people. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and I've never seen anyone's opinion changed by discussing/arguing about these things. When people ask who I voted for, I say that is private. When I was married, we generally agreed on these things, but there were times we didn't. In those situations we agreed to disagree and didn't talk about it anymore. The only exception was when he joined the KKK for about 10 minutes....I almost divorced him then. Luckily it ended up just being one of his passing interests and it passed very quickly...
However, I could not be involved with anyone who is an extremist in either direction.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 56
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/2/2013 12:38:45 PM
My roommate and I are on total opposites of the political and
religious spectrum.

I have two items on my list that are honestly not up for debate....
he knows better than to bring them up. Anything else we can
debate about, sometimes get loud and pissy about...but it's all
good.

I think in a relationship, it would be the same...at least for me.
I have two dealbreakers that I can not negotiate or possibly see
another side.

It's possible my two dealbreakers could be a problem for someone
else, but I can live that and without them.
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 57
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Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/2/2013 2:40:05 PM
two thumbs up, deere_rancher.

I've heard too many folk exclaim that they are, say, economically conservative and socially liberal. No, you are not. One has to make concessions in one for the other to work, and vice versa. And in so doing undermines one for the good of the other.
Scripture made it clear millennia ago: you cannot serve two masters.

How a person acts, what they say, who or what they support, the sacrifices they make in their life - these are all a reflection of the inner person; the inner nature of the person. You do not gravitate in one particular direction over an infinite number of other directions without that one direction (choice, person, etc) saying something about you.

It is for that reason that I have a hard time understanding the Matelin/Carville marriage. What you do to support the family has to be an integral aspect of family life and I just do not comprehend how those two can have any discussion that includes the question, "What did you do today?"

I do not want to look my lover full in the face and know I have contempt for the things she believes, supports, or even what she did during the day. I would also like to know that we are on the same page re: those things we support and donate our time and materials.
I am not looking for a clone (actually, that would be a homosexual relationship, but you know what I mean) nor a lover with whom I cannot have a healthy disagreement - but there has to be a commonality of core values.

As the grandson of a Marxist Communist involved in the IWW, the son of a Socialist Statist, I've seen these ideologies up close and personal: I've seen the damage they've wrought, I'm familiar with their end goals.
No Thank You.

TK
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 58
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Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/6/2013 1:15:22 PM
There is too much politically that says too much about a person's ethics to be ignored.

Yes, there are negligible issue that don't matter. But then again, those things don't cause true arguments either, more like debates. People don't typically get into heated arguments on a personal level about "should we zone this area for the school or a business?"

However, when you're talking things on the broader political spectrum, yes, this makes a HUGE difference in a relationship. For instance, many fiscal conservative policies either don't understand huge portions of human sociology, or simply don't care. If I'm someone that cares about people and those sociological conditions, I'm not going to get along with someone that doesn't care. Therefore, no relationship.
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 59
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Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/6/2013 1:21:57 PM

I do not talk politics, religion, or football with other people. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and I've never seen anyone's opinion changed by discussing/arguing about these things.


Thinking people's positions are CONSTANTLY changing if they're brought new information, and, yes, that includes debates. Arguing on a losing side of a debate, and realizing it, will also change a thinking person's opinion over time.

Either you don't know any reasonable people that think with reason, or you're misunderstanding the effect debates have. They don't normally cause a person to change RIGHT THERE, and there's often a lot of saving face involved, even when they know they're wrong, but if you talk to them a year later, they may have shifted or different views, all stemming from that.
 Della D
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 60
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/6/2013 3:10:25 PM
First off, I never have and never would be in a relationship any type of hardliner, somebody who has any radical political/religious views, as those types usually have extreme difficulties to respect any views that don't fit in their small little world in the misguided belief theirs is the only truth there is.

Therefore, the worst that can happen in a relationship is that on some issues concerning politics/religion, we would not quite see eye to eye, but then after discussing the matter being adults we agree/d to disagree.

Same goes for actual friends, with social friends and acquaintances I simply avoid politics and religion if they feel in any way extreme about.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 61
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Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/6/2013 8:26:29 PM
Woman, visible minority are just two descriptors of who I am. They are not the most important things to know about me, but as they help define me, and as I'm partial to 'me', they are consequential---they matter.

Someone who is driven to support a party that denigrates people who share these descriptors, loses me before 'hello'. Actually, there's no chance of even 'hello'...not even a tiny bit. When a person's politics support disenfranchising and invoking a 2 tier system that blatantly disregards the realities of millions (who are just like me), it's a no-brainer to say 'not interested'. It would be impossible for me to find anything attractive about an individual whose politics suggest that who I am doesn't equate.

Intimate relationships are successful when one realizes in the other a degree of connectedness and experience a degree of authenticity that brings one closer to the other. For those that can gloss over the details of someone's political belief system by not looking too hard at the grainy detail, more power to you. For me, this gives me pause.

And yes, while I get that some are tepid about politics, I also see that politics drills down in infinitesimal ways we each go about in the spheres of our lives. I don't believe we are separate from our political selves and in meaningful ways we each articulate and give voice to our views by action or inaction, by support or derision, by tolerance or has someone else stated, 'incivility'. I, like many, want a more peaceful co-existence. A match with political kindred spirit is an optimistic place to start.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 62
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Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/7/2013 6:20:44 AM
^^^i knew many black co workers who voted fOr Obama simply because of race. This was even though his views were contrary to the political views of our profession.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 63
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/7/2013 7:55:46 AM
I know when I was a kid I remember my Mom openly admitted she voted for President on just ONE issue that she was vehemently against in the election, and picked the candidate/party that supported her view. Talking to her about it recently, she said in hindsight the other party (over time) supported most of her views and voting the way she did probably wasn't the wisest decision. She's pretty much 'for' the other party nowadays.

Maybe that begs the question - do you think your views for politics (or your significant other's) COULD change over time? I'm sure several people will say 'No', but it DOES happen. - What then? I'm assuming some reforms would happen gradually over time and may not be all that conflicting, but could a significant life event make people swing their views to be contrary of their spouse? If it happened to you - what happened?
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 64
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/7/2013 9:57:05 AM
I'm realistic enough to know that whether or not a president "supports my
views" doesn't mean much when it comes to actual events happening or
changing. Also parties have been known to let down their constituents and
to vote the opposite of what they say they stand for.

I think my views will not change about what is important to me.
I'm still adamant about a few things and I will not vote for anyone who
has an opposite view point on those few things....I don't care what party they
belong to.

I'm pretty flexible in most things and I try to see both sides of most issues, and
I can talk rationally about most anything. Except my two unchangeable views.
I have no clue and cannot understand anyone's resistance to coming around to
(what in my mind) is a simple and common sense point of view.

I guess it's just a chink in my perfect armor, but again, it's something I can live with.
 TuMuchFun
Joined: 9/29/2008
Msg: 65
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Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/7/2013 10:31:35 AM
Great thread, I can rule out all women who think your either with me or against me. This country was made great by those having different viewpoints, I think it can have the same effect on relationships. I love to hike, in fact I log about 35 miles a week picking up trash along the way. That being said, I also love to hop in a 4x4 and rip thru the desert, both are extremely rewarding to me and those people having two view points have made this all possible. Life would be a bore with just vanilla ice cream in my freezer.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 66
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/7/2013 10:44:31 AM
^^^ I see your point.
There's a difference between hiking and ice cream and abortions
and gay rights though.

I see you're a lot like me...you like to keep things simple too.
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 67
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Posted: 8/7/2013 12:05:55 PM

I know when I was a kid I remember my Mom openly admitted she voted for President on just ONE issue that she was vehemently against in the election, and picked the candidate/party that supported her view. Talking to her about it recently, she said in hindsight the other party (over time) supported most of her views and voting the way she did probably wasn't the wisest decision. She's pretty much 'for' the other party nowadays.

Maybe that begs the question - do you think your views for politics (or your significant other's) COULD change over time? I'm sure several people will say 'No', but it DOES happen. - What then? I'm assuming some reforms would happen gradually over time and may not be all that conflicting, but could a significant life event make people swing their views to be contrary of their spouse? If it happened to you - what happened?


There are some issues I'm back and forth on, partially due to education of those issues in particular. Even stuff like gun rights I'm iffy on, going back and forth because of the contrast between ideal and practice in those situations.

However, I doubt I'll ever change on human rights issues, or understanding why, say, "bootstraps mentality" doesn't work in a capitalistic society due to inevitable disenfranchisement. Those are things that are based on education and empathy, and not things that will necessarily shift much over time, unless I just lose my human empathy as I get older, or someone figures out how to shift capitalism so that it doesn't work like it does now.
 BabblingBrookes
Joined: 2/14/2013
Msg: 68
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/7/2013 12:34:02 PM


Maybe that begs the question - do you think your views for politics (or your significant other's) COULD change over time? I'm sure several people will say 'No', but it DOES happen. - What then? I'm assuming some reforms would happen gradually over time and may not be all that conflicting, but could a significant life event make people swing their views to be contrary of their spouse? If it happened to you - what happened?


I could see it adjusting over time in terms of minor issues, but not the big ticket items. If we're lucky, we'll all grow and change over time to some degree. I think it depends largely on the motivation behind your beliefs. Are they an ideology with no basis in reality...were they inherited...have your experiences molded them...etc. Your beliefs likely weren't established in a vacuum.

As I've gotten older, I've understood opposing viewpoints more clearly. My stance has never changed to the point that I would vote for another political party though. I honestly can't see it happening. The other party is presently too far from my moral compass. If the dynamics and stances of the party changed to a more moderate stance...maybe. Eh, only time will tell, but I doubt it.
 TuMuchFun
Joined: 9/29/2008
Msg: 69
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Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/7/2013 2:58:26 PM

^^^ I see your point.
There's a difference between hiking and ice cream and abortions
and gay rights though.


Just trying to keep it close to "non" political...weather it's abortion or gay rights or ice cream life would be a friggin bore without opposing points of view. Kind of like the Prince of Zamunda telling Imani Izzi (Coming to America) to bark like a dog. As I remember he fled to America to find someone that had their own thoughts. Two people can agree on Abortion & Gay Rights, Ice Cream and the Gnatcatcher and still be plenty miserable. I would be horrified to be with someone that would think I had to agree with them on "major issues." To me day to day issues are far, far, far more important in a relationship.
 Della D
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 70
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/7/2013 3:20:38 PM

Maybe that begs the question - do you think your views for politics (or your significant other's) COULD change over time? I'm sure several people will say 'No', but it DOES happen. - What then? I'm assuming some reforms would happen gradually over time and may not be all that conflicting, but could a significant life event make people swing their views to be contrary of their spouse? If it happened to you - what happened?


Not sure how old your mother was when that voting thing occured? While the very young voters (till mid, late 20's) usually do feel stronger about their views, they tend to soften over time and even change some. For the mature crowd, basic political and religious beliefs do generally not change drastically any more as they are based on the personal ethics and value system (except maybe some death row inmates suddenly claiming they discovered God or something, smile).
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 71
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Posted: 8/7/2013 3:30:10 PM
Just trying to keep it close to "non" political...weather it's abortion or gay rights or ice cream life would be a friggin bore without opposing points of view. Kind of like the Prince of Zamunda telling Imani Izzi (Coming to America) to bark like a dog. As I remember he fled to America to find someone that had their own thoughts. Two people can agree on Abortion & Gay Rights, Ice Cream and the Gnatcatcher and still be plenty miserable. I would be horrified to be with someone that would think I had to agree with them on "major issues." To me day to day issues are far, far, far more important in a relationship.


Without saying anything about my or anyone here's beliefs in particular or the "right or wrong" of any of them:

Abortion rights, gay rights, how to handle the poor/welfare etc. are things that bleed into how people will handle and interpret every day things. The logic (or lack of) used in determining their stance on these things, combined on which side they stand on ethical issues bleeds down on a more personal level into every day things, and factors in HUGELY when it comes to super important relationship things like child-rearing, etc.

And when you're talking human rights, "opposing points of view" can at times make other people suffer in points in time. Slavery was a political issue, after all, as was a woman's right to vote, just as examples. I'm not sure that having an opposing point of view to alleviate your personal boredom should override human suffering...
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 72
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/8/2013 7:27:01 AM

Just trying to keep it close to "non" political...weather it's abortion or gay rights or ice cream life would be a friggin bore without opposing points of view.


I don't think life would be a friggin bore if we didn't have to deal with any sort of human right issue.

I don't consider these "major issues" political. People who disagree on human rights, women's rights, or any other
right to live freely see things differently. It's basically part of the dynamic that makes up your personality and defines who you are.

I don't care what kind of ice cream someone likes, or whether they like hiking or biking or jumping out of planes, but I do care about what the people I love think about others and how they treat them.

I can see both sides of most issues. I can disagree with them and still understand the opposing view. But human rights
issues, women's right to choose...nope. I don't get it. Human rights issues ARE day to day issues.
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 73
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Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/8/2013 7:41:08 AM

But human rights
issues, women's right to choose...nope. I don't get it.


Oh, this is an easy one. The issue is a perspective issue in itself. The perspective is "what makes something human (in a philosophical sense)" combined with "at what point does that something override the feelings of the person it depends on to survive." Federal law has that line at, what, 24 weeks of development now?

Some people believe that as soon as fertilization occurs, even before it has organs, it is "human," and needs to be protected. Others believe that it might be human, but isn't at a point where it should be protected over the wishes of the person carrying it due to lack of awareness and development. And others don't believe something is "human" until later on.

The whole Schiavo ordeal was a different expression of this same split in philosophy, on the opposite end of the development spectrum.

Both sides use weighted phrases and buzzwords to make their side seem better, but the basic issue comes down to this.

Where someone stands on this issue normally says A LOT about the person though. Because it's an unanswerable question, as it -is- strictly based on opinion (unless there's a God out there to judge things that overrides human thinking), that opinion is shaped by certain influences and certain worldviews that spread down into how every day life things are handled.

That's why I don't understand people that say that politics don't matter (over large stances like reproductive rights, gay rights, or social-economic issues). How someone feels about these things asserts itself in how they think, period - it's inseparable.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 74
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/8/2013 7:52:02 AM

That's why I don't understand people that say that politics don't matter (over large stances like reproductive rights, gay rights, or social-economic issues). How someone feels about these things asserts itself in how they think, period - it's inseparable.


+1.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 75
Managing Political Views in Couples/Relationships
Posted: 8/8/2013 12:48:17 PM
I'm not going to disagree with the idea that a person's individual values strongly color their political leanings, and vice versa - but 'getting along' with a significant other means cooperation and/or compromise on just about EVERY level. I guess I'm more curious how you 'deal' with the other half when you don't agree.

I see many taking the extreme side and getting hung up on the 'If You're Not With Us You're Against Us' mentality - isn't that ALWAYS an immediate fire starter? How do you deal with people that always seem to have their boiler steaming about certain issues?
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