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 AUTHOR
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 51
They don't want to be friends...Page 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
If two people who went on a date have no romantic or sexual feelings for each other but enjoy each other's company enough to stay in touch and do stuff together, a friendship WILL develop organically.

Sure... but that's a big "if" for most people. More importantly, "let's be friends" -- something that ends up developing organically over time -- doesn't apply any more than if two people meet for a 1st meetup and have attraction say "Let's be Boyfriend/Girlfriend." That would be weird, would it not? Again, that develops organically over time, too.

That's why "let's be friends" on a 1st date is silly. It's more applicable to something where you've already bonded over time already by seeing each other some (but one of them doesn't want to be an "item") -- but when it gets to that point, usually one person likes them and the other doesn't -- so fat chance in that happening without one aiming to "win back" the other.

So on a 1st date/meetup, "let's be friends" is as odd as saying "let's be boyfriend/girlfriend". It'd be more realistic to say, "I want to let you know that I'm not interested in you at all in-that-way (because of [x/y/z])... and if you don't have a crush on me or anything, we can keep in touch and maybe hang out again with each others' friends..." If they did follow through on that, sure, they could end up being real friends -- or end up dating or becoming real friends with one of theirs, etc.

But to expect that would still be kind of silly. It's the exception, not the rule. You don't go on a matchmaking site to make platonic friendships. If a girl knows she's not interested in the guy in-that-way Before the meetup, she should tell it to him Immediately -- even if their 1st date/meetup was to be casual and non-romantic. I could see a guy, if during or at the end of a 1st date is given a legitimate "LJBF" speech, he'd want to know why. After all, if they both saw sufficient pictures and talked a decent amount beforehand -- what threw her off? Was she just looking for friends in the first place and just wasted his time? I'm sure most women would not like it if the roles were reversed, either.
 nyceguy85
Joined: 1/11/2013
Msg: 52
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/21/2013 8:42:40 AM
Why would a guy want to be simply friends with someone who can give him a stiffy? Put yourself in the guys situation. You meet a guy who is almost as fine as me, he makes you weak in the knees and turns the inside of your panties into Water Country USA. You want to be with him, but he is not attracted to you and suggest the two of you just be friends. Would you be his friend while being subjected to conversations involving him seeking advice about approaching women he is attracted to?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 53
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/21/2013 9:50:47 AM

And I agree that most offers of "let's be friends" probably aren't serious which is why I don't take them seriously

But then why this, after the LJBF after a 1st meet...?

if a girl says she just wants to be friends and then contacts me to meet for coffee ..... I assume exactly what is presented - I am meeting a friend for coffee

If it was a few weeks later, I wouldn't rule out potential interest. Or what may seem like it when there isn't any there. Some want male attention out of loneliness or getting her ego back in the game. But why meet for coffee? She's not interested in you. The same question would be asked of her, too. You're not real friends at this point. She's not interested in you. Why go out of your way to develop a 1-on-1 friendship?

I could see a gal texting you later on and saying "Hey, my friends and I are over at such-and-such brewery after the hockey game... you and your friends should show up." Basically, increasing your social pipeline if/when that situation happens. Alright -- one shouldn't use a matchmaking site for that; that's silly -- but yeah, sure, that can be a positive by-product from time to time.

But why a 1-on-1, if I'm not new in town or lonely as heck? Putting myself in the opposite position... I meet a girl, she's okay looking... after the date I'm not feeling it, I'm not interested in her in-that-way. But I can tell she really digs me. Why in the world am I going to want to bond 1-on-1 with her to aim to develop a real 1-on-1 friendship, even after rejecting her to her face in a nice way (which would make most people walk entirely anyway)? I'm not her (real) friend. What's motivating me to do so?
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 6/25/2013
Msg: 54
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/21/2013 3:38:02 PM
Hey, moonbeamlover: I'm typing really slowly this time, so if you move your lips to understand the words, no-one will see...

This is a dating site. People are looking for dates, not fourths for their Euchre night...
 moonbeamlover
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 55
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/21/2013 3:44:18 PM
ah, arlo. I will type slowly in response too. While this is a dating site; there are different STYLES people choose.b

If it was everyone hard core dating why would they have the choice of not single not looking. why are they on here? why IS there a friends choice if they are not allowed on here? SOME people jump into romantic dating right away; some people casual or friend date while they get used to being back in the water after LONG relationships (and I know a TON of people both genders this is true of; so are they not allowed in the pond because their style is not to some guys' definition liking?) AND to those who ARE looking to romantic date and are exposed to a person they would not have met in real life since they don't hang out on the same side of town, if that person has an especial lot in common and they are missing sexual chemistry but they click as people, what law is there that they can't change focus? It won't work with everyone but why CAN'T it work sometimes?

Different strokes, different folks. Not one size fits all.
 Nj2ut
Joined: 11/5/2012
Msg: 56
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/21/2013 9:31:20 PM
And Olive Garden serves beer and wine and plays music in the background. That doesn't exactly make it a bar or a night club.

Look if a guy sets his intention as "friends" and states he's clearly looking for friends on here, that's one thing. But in reality the vast majority of guy join dating sites to find dates. Unless he's anti-social or brand new in town, chances are he has plenty of platonic female friends which makes joining a dating to acquire new ones pointless.

If a guy clearly identifies that he is here looking to find someone to date and he's taking you on dates, then why the shock and disappointment when he turns down your offer to be only friends. You knew from the start that his intention was to date you not be another one of your platonic friends. Just because you changed the rules in the last inning doesn't mean he has to go along with it.

Instead of nurturing some puesdo new "friendship" with some woman that doesn't see him as dating material, he should really be putting in time and effort in finding and nurturing a relationship with a woman who DOES see him as dating material.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 57
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/21/2013 10:03:19 PM
Wordsmith,

Because in those two instances, they were serious and made good on it. I didn't chase - they did.

No, but WHY (for either party, not just you)? :) Just because you didn't have to chase them for a friendship? I would hope not (for anyone)... But why reach out to start a 1-on-1 friendship? New in town? They like doing things that's hard to find anyone else doing?

she (the single one) is neither lonely nor new in town. Maybe she (the single one) is interested in me - I don't know but as she offered the "LJBF" it will be down to her to say something or otherwise make her feelings clear if she wants more - I'm not a mind reader.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. :) But it goes both ways, for each person... why would I want to reach out (whether I'm initiating it or accepting it; both are time consuming processes) to Immediately Start a friendship with a gal who I was sexually interested in but she wasn't to me -- or vice versa? I guess if I Really Like her, and hey, if she's the motivator to be 1-on-1, that means there's likely some potential interest -- low % chance of things being more than platonic, but hey, throw the long ball once in a while with one you really dig, right? :) But, that's dealing with sexual probability... not 100% aiming to be Just Platonic Forever. Otherwise I wouldn't -- and there would need to be a Good % of sexual (non-platonic) probability of something developing Combined with a High desire for her at the same time, for me to roll with Just Friends.

So my attitude is... if they are serious about staying in touch and seeing each other from time to time, why the hell not?

Ummm, a very possible waste of time if there's no reason that sticks out? Again, if there's Zero Hope for anything Ever developing beyond platonic between you two, for either side, what is motivating you to Immediately Start a 1-on-1 platonic-only friendship with a gal you don't know too well besides she's not interested in you, or she wants you but you don't want her? Again -- a why not: Even mild drama... little to gain if ya have enough friends, if she's aiming to be 1-on-1. With nothing sticking out for a benefit if one's busy enough in life -- beyond lightly keeping in touch with a gal in an uncommon situation -- why, not why not. I would think the burden of explanation would be on the side of immediately starting to develop one -- not on the side of why not develop one.

moonbeam,

If it was everyone hard core dating why would they have the choice of not single not looking.

It's clearly set for matchmaking, whether it be serious or casual/laid-back. Read all over the site. There's age restrictions on writing someone (14 years), regardless of one's own age settings! It's just as much aimed for Non-Platonic as Match.com or eHarmony. It's purely for what it is -- non-platonic.

Now, why would there be "not single / not looking"? The forum site which isn't a match-making engine... one could still want to keep their profile open but use the forums. Not Single / Not Looking. OR not delete their profile, but keep it off the radar, but still browse on the site. The site thrives off of traffic w/ ads. That's something important to remember.

Again, age restriction in writing others. You can only select one gender. Not Single / Not Looking won't come up in searches. All the site's explanations & writings in what it's FOR. It's obvious as dirt. :)

why IS there a friends choice if they are not allowed on here?

Again, why can't you write someone more than 14 years in age? Why can you only select one gender? It's not a perfect site, and I would agree "Friends" is off, but trust me -- write guys with "Friends". It doesn't mean 100% platonic. There's benefits that come along for the ride. :)

if that person has an especial lot in common and they are missing sexual chemistry but they click as people, what law is there that they can't change focus?

You can. That's not the argument. Just don't bank on it. Don't use the site for it, is all.

For instance, I could go to a book club meeting off meetup.com. When going there I could be like "Ehhh, I'm not into books so much. I mean, there might be one here that might be cool. It's an interesting place. But I'm really here to pick up chicks," and people would tell me I'm in the wrong place. I could counter with "Whoah -- who says you can't meet someone romantically from here? So I'm going to be here for that! I'm not stopping you from reading books!"

Again, someone can come on POF or Match or eHarmony looking to be Just Friends and-thats-it. They're in the wrong circle, if that's the case. They could end up, oddly enough, find a job or a friend or someone to mow their lawn -- but that's not the intention.
 NewYorkFan1
Joined: 6/30/2013
Msg: 58
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/22/2013 8:19:32 AM
I have noticed a lot of profiles I have read lately state that they want to start off as friends first and see what develops from there. So for the people stating that they aren't looking for friends but a relationship, is this someone you would be willing to meet and see if a friendship could turn into a relationship.
Personally I would be ok with meeting someone wanting to start as a friend and see where it goes, but I am also going to be meeting other people and not stopping my life for that person. And I would also expect to know within a reasonable amount of time whether or not the relationship is heading anywhere. But I also know that when I first meet the person and I don't feel the attraction that needs to be there for a ltr, then it wouldn't matter because I wouldn't want to waste her time or mine trying to find something that isn't there. And I would expect the same consideration from someone that didn't find any attraction in me to not go into a friendship knowing there is no potential for anything more then a friendship..
 LoneScottishBoy
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 59
view profile
History
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/22/2013 9:09:37 AM
Picture this.
You’re a guy, reasonable looking and you are on a dating site.
Let’s say for the purpose of this situation that they are both “good looking and have no serious flaws.
All is fairly equal.
A nice girl calls ( or emails…) and you start off on a conversation about dating.
You do some “getting to know you” and then agree to meet.

As a guy, his expectations are focused on a potential companion/mate/sexual conquest.
He prepares for, and arrives at his date with these expectations in mind.
After all it was what his environment told him.
He was on a dating site, a woman on the same site approached him or vice versa. They are on a date.
Friendship was never mentioned.

Then he gets told LJBF.
This is where things can get complicated depending on how many assumptions and projections are being made.
He may, for instance, feel that she was tentative all along and wasn’t completely honest with him.
He may feel “played”.
He may take it very personally and assume it’s a fundamental flaw with him and be upset that he can’t see it.
He may even feel on a very base level that he isn’t good enough to mate with.

Any way it goes, most men can’t help the feeling that they were misled in some way, either by themselves or the other person.
It’s a wakeup call that shatters the previous mindset and has very good potential to set him into defensive mode or salvage mode.
Defensive will get you a flat out rejection.
Salvage mode will get you a “Sure, we can be friends.”…But that is only so he can sleep with you eventually.

Some men are capable of seeing and dealing with this and CAN actually forge a friendship. Sadly, most are not.
Add the woman’s possible projections and expectations, good or bad, and there are bound to be some hurt feelings.
Both sexes have their own ways of dealing with things but the bedrock is still the same.

Nobody LIKES to be told they aren’t the best thing since sliced bread.
Granted their reaction is their own, but it’s a possibility that they won’t deal with it well enough to not feel hurt.

It’s a shock because no matter how you approach it, it’s like being told you are going to a steak dinner and then missing out and being offered McDonalds instead.
It’s disappointment no matter how you slice it.
It wasn’t what you were looking for.

They don’t want to be friends because they have friends and they went into this expecting to find a mate.
Doesn’t get much more simple than that.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 60
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/22/2013 10:32:20 AM
Why not? What if there is no sexual attraction and that feeling is mutual, but at the same time an acknowledgement that you both get on incredibly well and a mutual desire to spend time together on occasion?

If you both get on incredibly well, and both have a mutual desire to spend time together 1-on-1 after your first meet, stemming from a match-making platform, where you share no friends or colleagues -- while nobody's new in town or in position where they need to meet new people -- it begs the question as to how is there not any at least mild non-platonic attraction on any side, if that's ALL there is to go on?

I could see bonding a ton via being pen-pals for so long before ever meeting (with romantic/sexual/matchmaking aim)... then when meeting, you both see each other as not the person you thought (visually) thus both having ZERO attraction. I would say for most situations, at least one would be ticked that they turned out looking inaccurate as portrayed. Why looks be the reason you have no attraction? After all, you've talked forever and ever, gotten to know your personas well, and in person with romantic intentions were great -- so personality's not it. But as you put it, you both (allegedly) get along incredibly well when meeting -- with a desire to get together again. That's a Really odd combination if you were stemming from a matchmaking arena with matchmaking intentions when meeting.

So it boils down to a reason more than "just because" if there Truly is, Suddenly, in fact No attraction from one person to another, when everything was building up to that. It would put into question that there wasn't any at least mild attraction if you got along great when you met, wanted to hang out again, and were bonding non-platonically leading up to it -- but wanted to hang out 1-on-1. Unless there was some exception that stuck out as to Why, IF you claim there is 100% ZERO attraction (like, aunt Sally or Bob) for both parties.

I would say virtually every time, there IS (some) attraction or desire for opp-sex attention by one person if it's just as "simple" as you put it, without any stark reason jumping out, to reach out to build a 1-on-1 relationship of any sorts.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 61
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/22/2013 11:04:45 AM
I agree with C.R.: If there was enough physical attraction from pictures (profile and/or sending recent pictures) that are accurate in the real life meet, and your personalities match enough for friendship, why would you automatically rule out dating? I guess some women have the attitude that if there isn't instant fireworks and instant chemistry right from the first millisecond they meet, it won't work out as a romantic partner.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 62
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/22/2013 9:28:18 PM
I don't know how else I can explain it really... though I am not pining for her (the single one) I am open to the possibility of more (apologies if I have not made that clear, I thought I had) with her.

OKAY... makes a bit more sense. You're NOT ruling out dating and there is no Zero Sexual Attraction. Now, if it's not ruled out, and it's just "being more than friends at this moment in time", essentially you're going the friends first route (on the lesser side of optimism). Which is a great tool for a gal to use because:

(a) She can cross the platonic zone a bit here and there but still call it "just friends", even though that'd be inaccurate -- but she just means expectations and roughly-speaking, but will apply it as if it is 100% accurate (unless you make out with the waitress in front of her after building up sexual tension beforehand).

(b) She can turn it into solidly more than friends at any time she wants (assuming he's game too)

(c) She can assume she can treat it the exact same way as "I do not find you attractive, it will never work", despite leading him on for male attention (whether he minds that or not in the end)

I can say the same thing for guys, too, who may play that game. Usually more than a crossing "a bit" in (a), and usually not applying (c).

All in all, it is different than Just being Just Friends, if that door is open and wanting to hang out 1-on-1. Just saying. And dude, don't even think of paying for her coffee or drinks, etc. Or impressing her. Talk about other chicks, if that's what it is. Flirt with the waitress if the opportunity arises. Just friends, right? :)

I don't ultimately see a point to forming any friends, it just happens that way with my male and my female friends. Why should there be an extra layer, an extra reason or an extra anything to one male and one female spending time together and talking about the heaps of stuff they have in common?

No, I agree -- it just happens. But this is a different scenario than one forming thru natural order (even though 1-on-1 through that is not too common among two single folks without one liking the other). We're talking about arriving through a matchmaking site, with expectations that way, and one not liking the other -- but stepping forward to Start Creating a 1-on-1 friendship. It's a sudden right-turn, even if the feeling is somewhat mutual with the other party. What's the motive? You're not social-group friends or work-friends...

It's the sudden right turn -- from one venue to another. I could see if you already bonded to be seeing each other, it was always light and both weren't that into the other but always had great conversation rarely found among others -- and with a little talk, both decided to be buddy-buddy with a sigh of relief to avoid the awkwardness of the partially-existent romantic portion of things between you two... and introduce each other to each others' friends, etc. I get that (although not common scenario).

But when I'm single and scanning the scene, I have friends... I have work... and heck, I don't even have kids. If there was some build up with Sally, and when meeting her she's not interested in me, and/or I to her -- that's a bummer, man. It shifts things. Even though it's not chasing per se, why am I going to schedule appointments to see her 1-on-1 periodically -- even if what would have been a "damn, that sucked" 1st meet turned into "The upside is we had great conversation, she's a cool gal." I could see being group-friends with her. Maybe another friend may like her... and maybe she has some cute friends, etc. Sure... but why aim for 1-on-1? I would naturally not want to, unless there were key reasons that stick out (I think she's real cute & door's open to be more than friends; I'm new in town and she has cute friends so it nay start off as 1-on-1 but I'm aiming on it being a group-friend scenario with hers).

In many scenarios one's going to think that you like the girl or you're open to crossing the platonic barrier, aiming to be 1-on-1 from scratch with a gal that you met in a matchmaking process. That's why. :) I know I sound like a new GF of yours (lol) who would be asking this. I'm sure if you whipped up a new GF real quick who you hit it off with, she'd be scratching her head as to why you'd be aiming to Start being 1-on-1 "friends" with a girl who you met once from a matchmaking site (where you're friends, "for now").
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 6/25/2013
Msg: 63
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/23/2013 4:44:49 PM
(mbl) ah, arlo. I will type slowly in response too. While this is a dating site; there are different STYLES people choose.b

If it was everyone hard core dating why would they have the choice of not single not looking. why are they on here? why IS there a friends choice if they are not allowed on here?


They *ARE* allowed on here; but, stop pretending to be unfamiliar with the concept of Bait-and-Switch, and how people can feel resentful/hurt if they feel they've been played (whether the "player" did it intentionally or not).


Different strokes, different folks. Not one size fits all.


Right. So, why are you getting your cute little button nose out of joint over the fact that *SOME* guys may decide that remaining friends after a fizzled date isn't something they're interested in?
 moonbeamlover
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 64
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:50:26 PM

They *ARE* allowed on here; but, stop pretending to be unfamiliar with the concept of Bait-and-Switch, and how people can feel resentful/hurt if they feel they've been played (whether the "player" did it intentionally or not).



A person can't play someone unintentionally. They either play them on purpose, or they when they got in person had a different vibe. The one is someone callously manipulating someone and I don't think there are as many doing that as people assume; the other one is having the in person and discovering the vibe offline is way different than it was previously. That's why people should never ever promise romantic before meeting; because you don't KNOW what the in person vibe is going to be like. Either direction.



Different strokes, different folks. Not one size fits all


Right. So, why are you getting your cute little button nose out of joint over the fact that *SOME* guys may decide that remaining friends after a fizzled date isn't something they're interested in?


I didn't. If they decide they don't want to be friends more power to them. They should only be friends if they WANT a woman who they have stuff in common with that they can pick their brain on future dates, get female point of view and have fun having out doing things if either have an off evening and want to do something; or just yak on occasion.

If they DON'T want that because they are hurt she didn't feel a spark and they did (even though she didn't consider it a fizzled date; just a different vibe)? Then they shouldn't be friends. They should only do what they are comfortable doing; but the irony is; people make it that the female is the only person to benefit from the said friendship.

But having a woman to bounce ideas off of with potential dates, ideas for approach, having a female point of view can help the guy a TON. People are so quick to assume she's "using" him to "bolster her ego" and say he should talk about future dates to "keep her in her place". But that's my point; he SHOULD talk about future dates; she can help him a ton become someone empowered to find someone that HAS that spark both ways. It can be a casual acquaintanceship; but if they have a ton in common and have a strong mental connection but zero physical sparks; they can benefit each other in a lot of ways and enjoy the heck out of spending time with each other on occasion and yakk occasionally. Anyone who says cross gender friends can't stay friends are missing out.

But if both people don't want to be friends, then they shouldn't be friends. No one can make a person do it if they find no beneficial reason for doing so. Has to be a win/win for BOTH.
 moonbeamlover
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 65
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/24/2013 5:40:12 AM

Perhaps you can answer me a question, one that I raised earlier (message 53) that nobody responded to - is that many men feel a woman's friendship is only good while she's single. So why offer a man friendship if you'll drop him like a tonne of bricks when you're no longer on the market only to be wanting his attention again when you're single again? It happens.


when that has happened to me it's the GUY who backs off. I have not chnaged things with my male or female friends if I"m in a relationship though don't have much "prime" time to hang out; it's more a lunch or an occasional happy hour or a phone call; but I don't disappear. But I have had a couple guy friends disappear on me; I figured they were uncomfortable and didn't want ot intrude or something; and I tried to be sensitive to that and just let them come back out after the relationship was over. One thing I don't ever do with guy freinds though is talk about my relationship stuff with them. I don't think that's fair to a friend or a guy i'm dating seriously; I wouldn't like it if a guy did that with me with a female friend. We more talk about THEIR dating stuff.
 moonbeamlover
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 66
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/24/2013 6:54:43 AM

Had you ever considered that they though that you would no longer want them around? Did you ever reach out to them? The fact that you didn't react could have confirmed (in their mind) that they are surplus to requirements thus maintaining the notion that "she only wants me around when she's single".


actually, I"m a volley kind of gal. They email, I email back. They call, I call back. When my "call back" goes unresponded and the email goes unresponded I WILL send one more and if that one goes responded, then I don't assume they think I don't want them around. I assume they don't want to be around me during.

I don't disappear; and I DO send a text or an email saying hey, miss ya, what's going on (or leave a message)

So yes, I have reached out to them when they have disappeared. They even admit when they come back around after that they were uncomfortable.

And I would never want to make a person feel bad being around me. Like I said, friendship is supposed to make BOTH people feel happy; if they don't feel happy around me for whatever reason if I am in a relationship; then it would be the height of selfishness by me to try and force myself on them if they would rather have some space. Again, people seem to have this thing that women "use" friendship.

For me friendship is very real, and I care how they feel. It's not how they make me feel. If people could understand THAT? They would I think dramatically change how they feel about female friends. The assumption of prima donna attention needing and spoiled ego bolstering (it may be true for SOME, but I guarantee not for MANY women I know who have good guy friends), kills potential great chances for some guys to not only have a potential friend but get a GREAT support system in their dating life. It does a lot more good than strangers in a forum that try and answer generalities; because friends know what a person ACTUALLY does in person so their advise is not general, it is tailored to the person specifically. we WANT them to find someone that floats their boat; not keep them to ourselves on a string. But if during a relationship it makes them feel the lack of their own person, they want space they should be able to get it.

Though in some people's cases they drop ALL friends in a relationshp; not just guy friends. Some people "go under" :) I suspect in the case you're talking about/ There is more of that going on than anything. She isn't using the guy for convenience, she is using ALL her friends for convenience. :)
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 67
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/24/2013 8:15:50 AM
I talked about the dates I had previous to her and those I had after that. If she was feeling even the slightest twinge of jealousy, she wasn't showing.

Decent move when you get the (solid) vibe that the girl's not interested in-that-way (to sense reaction). But what I meant was talking about a girl you think is hot, and asking her for girl advice about obtaining them. Great way to diffuse things into a friend zone, if she likes you or you notice she doesn't like you but want to make it more comfortable for her.

Who pays was never an issue either - even when we were dating she was more than happy to pay her way. This is a true independent woman we are talking about here who doesn't feel traumatised at having to open her purse and remove from cash from it :-P

Well, even if she's not -- if you're just friends -- you wouldn't pay her way any more than you'd pay a buddy's way. It shoudn't be an issue with ANY girl if she pulls out the friend card. Even if she's a dependent, traditional lady. She's now hanging out with a cousin. When a gal pulls out the friend card, it doesn't fit into the "who pays/how much" debate, because it's not a Date anymore or anything close to it. Agree?

I am open to it is not the same thing as accepting LJBF in a hope of being with her eventually. The "Friendzone" is on my terms and I'll only accept "LJBF" from the sort of people that I could be friends with anyway

No, I agree, it's not the same thing. However, when the door is knowingly not closed and very possibly remains open, I think the "why" is sort of answered. No, it doesn't mean you're ga-ga about her and scrambling to "get her", although that could be a case in some scenarios. I get it -- you'd be cool being friends with her "anyway". But if there was no sexual attraction on your side, you would Not At All ever want to be more than friends with her.

My "why" question is a bit the same as a similar scenario: If you have been BF & GF with a gal, but you end up breaking up -- even if you both wanted the breakup -- why would you want to Immediately be 1-on-1 friends with her, even if she's initiating it? "Why not" being the response and left at that would be giving everyone a sound reason to believe that you still liked her -- whether or not you were chasing her to get back together.

I'm scratching my head in the same way, but instead, it's between two people who talked online with non-platonic intentions & aspirations (serious or no-big-expectations).... and Only meeting because of that. Then Immediately, it Falls Through... but then Immediately aiming to cultivate a 1-on-1 friendship? Same motivation as above, unless there's a good uncommon reason sticking out -- Why? Otherwise, someone likes the other to some degree -- whether or not they're plotting to "get" that person.

many men feel a woman's friendship is only good while she's single. So why offer a man friendship if you'll drop him like a tonne of bricks when you're no longer on the market only to be wanting his attention again when you're single again? It happens.

For a 1-on-1 relationship? Yeah. I think many girls, wisely, will shift gears in their friendship with a 1-on-1 guy-friend, usually the ones who weren't lifelong childhood friends but guys who may have liked them but 'became friends' -- into a more group-friends. I think that's a GOOD thing. Why? For the same reason as I've been picking your brain about your situation -- why be 1-on-1 in the first place??

Now, if she drops him like a ton of bricks as a friend altogether -- yeah, she was very possibly just wanting guy-attention as her motivator. She can do that while still thinking of you as a good guy, and was an actual friend.... but just like a guy may befriend another guy because he has connections to bartenders or ticket people, she may be in the same way. Even when not All-Out "using" him, it was just what started it and kept it going. And unless the friendship had time to blossom and exist for a good while, yeah, her true motivation will surface due to that.

However, she will many times distance herself from several (female) friends who aren't close to being her BFF. So it may be that. Look to see if she's 'dissing most of her gal-pals, too. If not, that's not the reason. :)

Again, it boils down to: Why 1-on-1 specifically VS opening the door to being group-friends, after the matchmaking process suddenly fell through (but both got along decently well)? I would (and do) go out of my way not to be 1-on-1, unless there's something that sticks out specifically as to why. Many people reach out or accept being 1-on-1 friends after matchmaking fell through "just because", because they do actually Like them -- even though they don't realize it! MUCH more common that one may think. Especially among those who want 1-on-1 friends with the opp-sex that stemmed from matchmaking processes.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 6/25/2013
Msg: 68
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/24/2013 1:25:29 PM

(mbl) A person can't play someone unintentionally.


Which is why I said "whether the player did so intentionally or not". I figured you were swift enough to realize the point I was driving at. Was I wrong?
 Nj2ut
Joined: 11/5/2012
Msg: 69
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/25/2013 6:11:41 AM
[But having a woman to bounce ideas off of with potential dates, ideas for approach, having a female point of view can help the guy a TON. People are so quick to assume she's "using" him to "bolster her ego" and say he should talk about future dates to "keep her in her place". But that's my point; he SHOULD talk about future dates; she can help him a ton become someone empowered to find someone that HAS that spark both ways. It can be a casual acquaintanceship; but if they have a ton in common and have a strong mental connection but zero physical sparks; they can benefit each other in a lot of ways and enjoy the heck out of spending time with each other on occasion and yakk occasionally. Anyone who says cross gender friends can't stay friends are missing out.]

Most guys already have plenty of females in their lives to bounce ideas off of....mothers, aunts, female cousins, sisters, female co workers, neighbor down the street, female bartenders etc. Why does a guy need to keep a woman around that doesn't think he's good enough to be her man for that purpose?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 70
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/25/2013 1:48:27 PM
(mbl) A person can't play someone unintentionally.

I actually disagree with this. Someone can unintentionally be playing someone, for sure. One can't go off scott-free because they "didn't mean it" (whether that's 100% true, 50% true, or not true at all).

Many people "look out for themselves" without being 360 about how they affect others, via bad advice from many times decent family members & peers. For instance, a guy could be playing a girl without trying to "play" her as his goal, or even think about whether he's playing her -- he's just focused on himself. Those who go with the me-me-me/i-deserve-i-deserve attitude in life should never get an ounce of sympathy in common situations when they're played. The other person, commonly, isn't trying to screw them over or to play them. They're just "looking out for themselves", even though it doesn't do themselves any better service in many of those situations -- it's just a lazy man's way of taking on life.

EXAMPLE: Bob, a nice guy, has been talking to a gal named Sally for a 1st meet, from a matchmaking site. They get things set up, and right before he goes to the date, he learns that Sally's Christian Reformed. Sigh. He has friends who are like that, they're cool, but he can't date a gal who's like that. He decides he can only be friends with her. But he doesn't tell her -- he doesn't want to ruin the situation or just cancel a date without other plans. Besides, she seems like a cool girl anyway, and his 1st "date" isn't much of an official date anyway -- her friends are going to be there too. So he goes up to meet her, she's great looking, he really likes her company & attention.... he's not trying to harm her -- quite the contrary. But he also doesn't like confrontation. He's a fool where he thinks he doesn't have to tell her he just wants to be friends, even though she's going on about talking about being with him and their compatibility, and possibly not seeing other people. The outing finishes at the end of the night, and they have tentative plans to see each other again -- but again, in Bob's mind, he's going to be just friends. So this continues for a length of time, then Bob's peers tell him he's got to tell her, even though he thinks that's "weird" to tell her and doesn't feel obligated to. Yes, Bob's an Idiot Ba$tard (lol). BUT, he's a nice guy and was meaning no harm -- he's looking out for himself. He's not trying to play Sally -- he thinks that because they're not boyfriend/girlfriend he doesn't have to say anything. Sally finds out on outing/date #3, and Sally's understandably upset and says he was playing her. Bob says he didn't mean to!

Yes, he did mean to do what he was doing -- but he didn't mean to "play" her. He didn't see it as playing her, even though that's exactly what it was. He's just an idiot, and didn't think that he was obligated to tell her. He doesn't like confrontation, he wanted to hang out with Sally and telling her would very possibly make her not want to hang out, he didn't want to get into the Whys (to possibly bring on religious debate)... he was just going with the flow and what his comfort zone wanted!

He still played her... the flavor: Stringing someone along.
 moonbeamlover
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 71
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/25/2013 4:07:54 PM

EXAMPLE: Bob, a nice guy, has been talking to a gal named Sally for a 1st meet, from a matchmaking site. They get things set up, and right before he goes to the date, he learns that Sally's Christian Reformed. Sigh. He has friends who are like that, they're cool, but he can't date a gal who's like that. He decides he can only be friends with her. But he doesn't tell her -- he doesn't want to ruin the situation or just cancel a date without other plans. Besides, she seems like a cool girl anyway, and his 1st "date" isn't much of an official date anyway -- her friends are going to be there too. So he goes up to meet her, she's great looking, he really likes her company & attention.... he's not trying to harm her -- quite the contrary. But he also doesn't like confrontation. He's a fool where he thinks he doesn't have to tell her he just wants to be friends, even though she's going on about talking about being with him and their compatibility, and possibly not seeing other people.



This is where i disagree with your example. In the above example, if she has been talking about being with him and their possibly not seeing other people and he does not at that POINT tell her that he is not at that place and might not be at that place? Then he IS intentionally leading her on. Nothing unintentional about it.

If both people are not at a casual meet place and one of them has expectations and the other one KNOWS that there is zero probability something will come of it romantically? If they don't say something at that point they are knowingly playing with someone's feelings.

No one should ever lead anyone on.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 72
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/25/2013 4:33:32 PM

He's a fool where he thinks he doesn't have to tell her he just wants to be friends, even though she's going on about talking about being with him and their compatibility, and possibly not seeing other people.


Regardless of her religious orientation, if she's talking about being exclusive on the first meet, that's reason enough to bail and forget about any thoughts of just being friends. I would imagine she would start making wedding plans by the second date.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 6/25/2013
Msg: 73
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/26/2013 8:45:45 AM

(springfish) You said it well, and those who walk away from that offer don't know how to be friends, one would not want these types in their life as a friend, or a mate.


Please do tell how not wanting to be friends is the same as not being able to be friends?
 Nj2ut
Joined: 11/5/2012
Msg: 74
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/26/2013 9:08:11 AM
[moonbeamlover #58...................You said it well, and those who walk away from that offer don't know how to be friends, one would not want these types in their life as a friend, or a mate.]

I agree Arlo..I want to hear how a guy who probably already has plenty of friends (including female ones) doesn't know how to be friends just because he he rejects an offer of friendship from someone who doesn't want to date him.
 CallmeKen
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 75
They don't want to be friends...
Posted: 10/26/2013 9:31:00 AM
Isn't it interesting how often women who just want to be friends will still want you to pick up the check?

If you're using guys as supplemental income for your social outings, spending money that they could have spent on, I don't know, developing a real relationship, that's not being a friend. That's being a dinner whore.

Do you really need me to explain why that's frowned upon by men?
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