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 AUTHOR
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 51
Marriage, Is it a must???Page 3 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

Point I am trying to make and not getting across, is that I don’t fear commitment. It is not that I fear compromise but that I don’t want that lifestyle. I am totally comfortable with the lifestyle I have. I don’t want anyone to change their lifestyle for me. If they enjoy cottage life for vacation and weekends, let them have their cottage. I don’t want to have the responsibility of chores at their cottage. I don’t want them to do any chores in my home in the Caribbean. Let me have their primary home and second home, the way they want it. I don’t want the boredom of joint property where paint colours become a discussion.


I do understand what you are saying, it's no FEAR, it's you don't want to compromise the lifestyle you enjoy. Which is why I said "WANT TO".

But you do require the other person to be COMMITTED to be in a relationship, which for me would be compromising / changing the lifestyle I enjoy. To avoid dating other women would be like trying to diet all the time for someone like me.

I can be COMMITTED if we are married, otherwise I am a free agent.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 52
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 8:03:14 AM
I like the idea of being married.
I like thinking that someone would marry me even with
the high divorce rates....that I'd be worth the effort I guess.

I was married 29 years, and I had an easy divorce. We
didn't go through any of the nastiness I see people talk
about on the forums. We just realized and agreed we had
out grown each other.

With that said, I don't expect I will get married again, and
that's okei. I think marriage is more of a financial commitment
than an emotional one. I think you need more trust with a
marriage only because it's not as easy to walk away if you
have to go through the process of a divorce.

I need to add that my marriage was really more of a partnership
in that we had our own hobbies, friends and things to do. I never
felt the need to ask to do anything...I did always call if I was going
to be late or I had a change of plans and I always let him know what
I was doing, but I did that because it was a courteous thing to do, I
didn't do it because I felt I had to ask permission. He did likewise.
I had a lot of freedom in my marriage...really the only thing I couldn't
do was sleep with other people.

But that's just my opinion of course.
The forums tend to have more all black or all white points
in regards to marriage, where I believe there are some grey
areas to consider.
 MS.ICENI
Joined: 2/3/2007
Msg: 53
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 8:55:04 AM
Our concept of "love" in marriage in a relatively new. I've been looking up online for the history of marrage (including the idea of a ring) and most of the time marriages were arranged by the families...the parties involved had little to say about it. Contracts were drawn up (prenups) and money/countries/other stuff were agreed upon for price/exchange. Royalty married countries, not the other person. All children/heirs needed to be legal to inherit or ascend to a throne. Divorce could cause world wide upheavel, and one might lose their head...don't believe it? Think Henry VIII. I knew someone from Kenya who had to get married to his prearranged partner and had to leave his love in America. It still goes on today. So, it's not an easy answer...marriage is more than how we think of it.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 54
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 9:03:21 AM
Getting back to the topic of having a pre-nup: What I find ironic is a lot of people are offended if their partner suggests having a pre-nup, because it means their partner are trying to protect their ass(ets) in the event of a divorce. Yet, what most people do now if both are working is both have separate bank accounts, and they will usually have one joint account where they each contribute a pre-determined amount for household expenses. The most common answer when asked why each partner has their own separate account is: If things don't work out, we aren't both broke. We both have our own money. So how is that different than the idea of a pre-nup? I know people who have been married for over 30 years who still have separate bank accounts, just in case their marriage doesn't work out.
 Ladyinred4755
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 55
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 11:13:43 AM
I can answer this question in two words. HELL NO!
 or_current_resident
Joined: 6/3/2013
Msg: 56
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 12:13:31 PM
moraima@
I hope that isn't a road you ever have to go down, but most of us have or will.
Grieving is a life changing process.


Yes it is, & I'm glad you have moved on to a peaceful place in your life to enjoy without your past pressures of keeping up with "the Jones"....^^^^^
As you now give new meeting to being the,"Marry widow"! ^^^^^^

Marriage has its place in the early years in the legal aspects & laws that protect each other. But for many they found out,say over 45 that the legal bond was not in the cards for them any more....or the freedoms you were not experienced living in the past relationships.

As I am in a LAT [ living alone together] SO relationship, & we find it works out very well.
And respect each others place etc... As we both trust,honor, respect, and love what we both have, doing a lot alone and a lot together. And free to say either way, but we both cherish our time best of all.
It called free to be ourselves & together ......yet your core beliefs & values are paramount in our bond. Which is imo the key in any relationship you both want to take to the next level.

And I'm sure many could not trust this kind of bond but it works for us being over 55. As we both love to share with each other our thoughts,experiences and look forward of doing new adventures.... as partners & confidants....

I being a man, and will honesty say for the most part..... two heads are better then one !
Yet for me.....As I was never meant live on a island alone. Well not too long anyway......^^^^^cheers
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 57
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 12:16:04 PM

If you don't want to live with a partner, how close would he have to live to make a relationship with separate homes work? Would he need to live in the same town as you or could you be in a relationship where your partner is 5 or 6 hours away in another city, and basically see him just on weekends-having a weekend husband?

I took this to mean living in the same vicinity, but different households - of course I can't be sure, only she knows what she meant - for me even a duplex situation might not be bad (though it is a bit close); buy one house, split it down the middle, have your own living quarters, set up a common area.
 Archiver
Joined: 3/10/2013
Msg: 58
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 12:23:16 PM
I don't think I would want to be married or even live with someone full time. After living alone for decades, I like my privacy and independence. Sharing a home might be tolerable in a large enough residence, with separate bedrooms and bathrooms into which we can retreat.

"Living alone together", i.e., separate residences, is a growing trend. I like the idea.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 59
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 1:23:34 PM
I joke that because I live alone, and don't have to clean my room today if I don't feel like it.

That's not a joke, that's a reality for me, lol. I don't clean my house at all, I have someone come and clean my house at least once a week, sometimes twice a week. The only chore I recently took upon myself, is food shopping, and even that, I limit to once a month. I go to a wholesale warehouse and buy everything I need for the month and cook meals for the week (if I have no dates scheduled). I'm not sure that a man would be okay with all that if we lived together.

@Belle, if, after getting your friend's "feedback" you think you need to change your style/outlook: You shouldn't be rude to a date, but I don't have the sense you were doing that, you were just calling these guys out on their nonsense.

Any feedback is good feedback, it invites us to reflect upon ourselves, observe our body language, what we say that didn't work out, etc. I wasn't trying to call them out on anything. I get the impression that my answer was not sufficient if they keep asking the same kinds of questions, so when I go in depth, I overwhelm them. As for Groupon guy, he deserved it, lol.

Would you want to be with someone who found you threatening?

What does that look like or sound like? You mean like they had a lot more going on than me? That would actually be good, there would be growth potential, we're both striving for something better.

You can fine-tune your demeanor, but if someone is annoying you it's best to listen to that.

I agree. If something about that person is causing for you to react in a way you usually don't, something is internally warning you about something.

It was pissing me off a bit and I kept my mouth shut but I wanted to say to her "if this loser is your BF, you need an upgrade".

awwww, I'm not sure I would have kept my mouth shut, lol. Maybe that's exactly the wake up call she needed or the little courage to leave the date (if it was a date).

On Topic....I still subconsciously want the whole lavish proposal, beautiful big wedding, the idea of having a partner-in-crime for the rest of life who I look forward to coming home to see, the idea of being pregnant and raising a child until he/she becomes an adult etc.

I like the idea of it all, but I realized after some time, that I like the event, not the reality of it all. Real life is a lot less glamorous than a piece of jewelry on the ring finger, a lavish wedding in which it becomes less about you and more about entertaining guests and feeding them, a contract hard to dissolve but easy to attain, dealing with the intricacy of raising a child and mismatching parenting styles and all that. I welcome no drama to my life, I don't see the worth in engaging in what most idealize.

I like the idea of someone wanting to spend the rest of their life with me, just not how it is traditionally done.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 60
view profile
History
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 1:24:52 PM
"Yes it is, & I'm glad you have moved on to a peaceful place in your life to enjoy without your past pressures of keeping up with "the Jones"....^^^^^
As you now give new meeting to being the,"Marry widow"! ^^^^^^"

Good grief. I have been widowed for 20 yrs. I spent 5 yrs., grieving. Then I worked very hard to create the single lifestyle I wanted both emotionally and financially for the next 15 yrs. I had a LTR, but we never lived together., Now is my time to live as I wish. Nothing “Marry widow” about it. My late husband was 7 yrs younger, and died at the age of 38, there were no bags of money to become a “Marry widow” with. Not that the “Marry Widow” lifestyle would have been a lifestyle that I would have embraced. Where do some people get their ideas from is beyond me.

“If you don't want to live with a partner, how close would he have to live to make a relationship with separate homes work? “
The same town would be ideal.

“Artist Frida Kahlo was born on July 6, 1907, in Coyocoán, Mexico City, Mexico. Considered one of Mexico's greatest artists, Frida Kahlo began painting after she was severely injured in a bus accident. Kahlo later became politically active and married fellow communist artist Diego Rivera in 1929. She exhibited her paintings in Paris and Mexico before her death in 1954.”
Frida lived next door to Diego back in 1929. Then it was a new idea. Almost 100 yrs later some people do it without bothering to marry. Frida and Diego’s relationship failed when he slept with her sister. It didn’t fail because they lived separately.
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 61
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 1:48:01 PM

Just to clarify, I didn't have a "nasty, bitter" divorce, it was more like I felt like a complete failure because I wasn't able to FIX the problems we had.

"I am just not sure I could stay committed without that piece of paper to keep me inline. It's too tempting to stray if one is single."

Now see dragon, I completely disagree with this. I think if a person still has the "desire" for others. ....they should NOT be getting married. Because really now, how much is that tiny piece of paper going to hold you back when the perfect opportunity presents itself for you to stray?


I felt a little of the failure feeling from my divorce, but more like why didn't we do this earlier and why did I get married in the fisrt place? It was probably good for me, but lasted too long.

There are mulitpe reasons for me to think I wouldn't stray. Being over 60 sure helps. :)

1) Most important, I wouldn't want to ruin my current relationship. I love her and I know how it hurts you to have someone cheat on you.

I often feel some level ot temptation, but I have never cheated when married even when the marriage wan't satisifing.

I have cheated when in a relationship. It isn't worth it, I had it done to me and I have done it, neither one is a good feeling.

But being married makes it a lot easier to ignore any temptation for varies reasons. I used a diet as an analogy. It's easier to not eat candy when it isn't on the table, when you have to make an effort to go out and get some.

1) There isn't likey to be any good chance to cheat, we live together and I work out of the home. I don't meet people except through the Internet, and I don't have a interest in having a few hours in bed with a woman for sex. Too much trouble, lying to my wife is wrong and I don't like to have to be deceptive, sex isn't likely to be all that good and I don't like rushing when in bed. So really, there won't be much of an opportunity.

2) I don't get horny / lonely, my wife is more than enough to keep me busy.

3) My own history, never did cheat, why start now?

Now I might not cheat in a committed living apart relationship, but I would be much more tempted to and think about it more. Hard to say, it was over 20 year ago that I used to be in LAT [ living alone together] relationships and I was working in a big company with a lot of people. And I used to travel all over the USA for work, which gave me plenty of opportunity.

I see a lot of posts about being in a LAT [ living alone together] relationship and how this is the new trend.

Maybe so, and if someone hadn't done this before in their life, maybe they enjoy the freedom. I can see this being attractive after being a parent, tied down, maybe having a husband or wife restricting their life.

But I been there done that (LAT) for over 20 years, and have been single for 30 years. I was previously married for 13 years, most of my life I have lived alone but been in a relationship. It's ok to do that, but it hardly holds any alure for me. I have had all the freedom I wanted.

What I have never really done is casual dating that lasts a few weeks to a few months, and not likely to do that now. Not sure it would work out well for me anyway. Never been a parent, never had much responsibility except to my work and myself, so this might be a growing experience for me.
 or_current_resident
Joined: 6/3/2013
Msg: 62
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 5:10:05 PM

But I been there done that (LAT) for over 20 years, and have been single for 30 years. I was previously married for 13 years, most of my life I have lived alone but been in a relationship. It's ok to do that, but it hardly holds any alure for me.


Fair enough as our times in being in a SO relationships is quite different indeed. As I did not marry till I was first over 30 plus years of age....32. her 23
And had a very good 20 year run, then divorced. and was married only once.
Did do the rebound thingy,etc,etc.....but did not remarried.... & have been single since 2001.

Went trough the transitional period for awhile but then,when you really stop looking for that one, she appears ..........

And as being 65 & finding someone who was not looking either is remarkable......

We know our love & trust is beyond being married.


I had all the freedom I wanted.


A wonderful quote! As like you, in my relationship, we accepted each another, and she accepts me.....warts & all........

Imo, Having wants anybody can have that, it's like punching a clock every day.....

But for some of us...... to have those special needs above & beyond which can only happen between a man & woman in love that really care, that make life itself divine to behold...... a lifestyle we both can enjoy together & alone......
 sigungq
Joined: 1/4/2013
Msg: 63
view profile
History
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 7:10:14 PM
To put a historical spin on it, the definition of a "license" is "Government conveying permission to engage in that which would normally be considered illegal." That said, one wonders what EXACTLY is illegal about marriage? Historically, it was illegal back in the 19th century for two people of different races to marry. So originally the "marriage license" was set up to grant permission to mixed race couples to marry. Of course as we evolved into a pseudo-raceless society, such a license would be looked upon as "racist". Of course, "big brother" would never want to "decrease" his little pieces of paper that tract the movements and activities of his subjects, so rather than do away with the license, big brother expanded it to include everyone. And now, even the gays and lesbians want big brother to track them. My statement to the gays and lesbians is: "Be careful what you wish for."

As far as the original question, I would have no problem devoting myself to the right woman for the rest of my life, and have no need of little "big brother" paper trails to show it.

On that note, I know of several churches that are NOT 501C3 corporations. They are not engaged in active commerce (blaspheming the house of God), and they DO pay their taxes (render unto Ceasar). As such, they are in no way tied to the government. When asked how they marry couples without the license, the pastor said: "We marry people under God, and God needs no license. If the couple wants to get license, that's between them and the county, but does not involve us."

Just a few AH-HAs.........

OH yes, and cautiouslove: I hope you don't mind my saying that you don't look nearly old enough to have been married for 20 years.
 slowitalldown
Joined: 1/25/2013
Msg: 64
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/5/2013 7:34:00 PM
I think at this stage of my life I wouldn't see any reason to marry. I wouldn't be starting a life with someone to have and raise a family. Even then I'm not sure marriage is needed, although it's what I did.

I think I'd like to live with someone, but I can see the attraction of also living separately. I like being with someone though, so I would need a lot of time together also in that case.

But, I do think everyone just kind of works that out as they go along, depending on who they meet and what situation they are in. If I had children living at home I don't think I would live with someone.
 LoneScottishBoy
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 65
view profile
History
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/6/2013 9:07:14 AM
Having been through a divorce, I am not exactly jumping to get married again. It was the division of assets that prolonged the process and was responsible for much more pain than I think I would have had if we were just living together.
But each situation is different as is each person.
Some people like the ceremony and the commitment. As one of my friends wives said “I made him put his money where his mouth is.”

Right now I am sitting on what little I have left and rebuilding.
My GF and I have discussed moving in together, but the children need to finish their respective schools.
That’s about four years.

Long enough for me to rebuild and get comfortable with the idea.

I’ll tell you though, having been through a divorce, I will most likely never look at a romantic relationship the same way again.
To quote a gal I dated “Wow…she did a real number on you.”
 Beauregard63
Joined: 7/15/2013
Msg: 66
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/6/2013 2:04:02 PM

I have never seen a poor person say they never wanted to get married


I think you will find plenty of young people who are poor who currently have no desire to get married ... my lack of desire to get married was probably stronger when I was in my late teens and early 20's when I had more debt than assets than it is now.

Just because you are poor it doesn't mean that getting married is going to improve your bottom line especially if you are a man. For many young people it is probably more cost effective to share a home with roomates or just continue sponging off the parents ( like so many kids do into their late 20's these days ) than it is to share a home with a significant other.

As we age we tend to have less tolerance for sharing a home with friends or acquaintances so from a point of view of helping with costs I would think that cohabitating would become more desireable with age if a person did not have the means to go it alone or the resources to have a rental suite in their home.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 67
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/6/2013 4:10:21 PM

To put a historical spin on it, the definition of a "license" is "Government conveying permission to engage in that which would normally be considered illegal." That said, one wonders what EXACTLY is illegal about marriage?


When a couple divorces, how come the court doesn't say: "Your license has been revoked. Hand over your license." What else are you going to do with the license anyway? Too bad there is no beginner's permit and test required first before getting the license.
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 68
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/6/2013 4:10:51 PM

There are plenty of people that do not see marriage as a financial decision, even if they are "poor."


And boy is that a mistake! It is every bit as much a financial decision as it is an emotional one.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 69
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/6/2013 7:19:04 PM

I'm amazed that some people consider this view to be hedonistic & actually kind of perverted. I tend to think chaining someone to your hip and demanding they remain with you, even if they don't want to... to be a complete perversion of what "love" is.

Yes!
 Xray86
Joined: 2/2/2012
Msg: 70
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/6/2013 11:01:48 PM
Here's a thought from the resident Mormon. I like how people want to play house and want all the romantic/social benefits of marriage but don't want to be married. If you're already pretending to be married, why not actually do it? Your relationship already has issues if things get "ruined" after a freaking ceremony or signing a piece of paper. You were just too blind to see the issues but quick to blame the concept of marriage as a convenient excuse. If I liked someone enough to want that committment, and she feels the same, I would be a fool not to prove myself to her by never marrying her. Yeah I'm biased because I'm Mormon and everyone knows we're all about marriage and families. But I would still feel the same even without the religious reasoning. It makes logical sense to me to progress the relationship like an adult and not keep it stagnant like a teenager.
 Crystal_Planet
Joined: 10/30/2013
Msg: 71
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 5:56:59 AM
I don't think I would want to be married or even live with someone full time. After living alone for decades, I like my privacy and independence. Sharing a home might be tolerable in a large enough residence, with separate bedrooms and bathrooms into which we can retreat.


What a ridiculously stupid notion. (Not you archiver, the idea itself). I'm all about separate residences, where you have sleep overs etc, but living in the way you describe is a dorm - not a home. Are there common areas? Communal kitchen? TV room? Sex room?
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 72
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 5:58:25 AM

If I liked someone enough to want that committment, and she feels the same, I would be a fool not to prove myself to her by never marrying her.


If the only way to prove you love someone is to get married, that is a recipe for failure. There should be no doubt about loving and committing to someone long before any talk of marriage, or other living arrangements. A big problem is a lot of people think having a wedding ceremony will solve all potential marital problems and the next phase is a fairy tale life and live happily ever after. That is not reality. Just ask people who are divorced how well a wedding ceremony created the fairy tale illusion of happily ever after.

Another very common problem among couples is one of the partners gives the other an ultimatum-marry me (within my time frame) or lose me. How is threatening to walk away from a partner because he/she is not following the other person's life schedule proving undying love for someone?
 Archiver
Joined: 3/10/2013
Msg: 73
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 6:24:19 AM

I'm all about separate residences, where you have sleep overs etc, but living in the way you describe is a dorm - not a home. Are there common areas? Communal kitchen? TV room? Sex room?


I think you missed the word "retreat"? I'm all in favor of sharing a bedroom until the snoring or CPAP or thrashing around starts. I'm a very light sleeper and need quiet and darkness. Separate bathrooms? What a luxury! No worries about smells or foggy mirrors or toilet seats left up. I can spread out my hair-care and make-up accouterments and not worry about being tidy. As for common areas--don't you have them in your own home? You share the kitchen, living room, TV room, etc. I'm an introvert; too much togetherness makes me squirrelly. Sometimes I need to retreat to a quiet space in order to recharge my batteries.
 Midwest_Southwest2
Joined: 11/1/2013
Msg: 74
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 7:17:20 AM

Another very common problem among couples is one of the partners gives the other an ultimatum-marry me (within my time frame) or lose me. How is threatening to walk away from a partner because he/she is not following the other person's life schedule proving undying love for someone?


^^^ But that’s really both making ultimatums. Each person is insisting on having it their way.

Think about what happens when one person wants to start having sex on one timelines and the other has a different timeline. If A wants to date for 6 months before becoming sexually involved and B doesn’t want to put in that much time before having sex, it’s not an ultimatum- or is it? And on who’s part?

You can view it as an ultimatum or as being consistent and authentic about what kind of relationship you truly want for the rest of your life. Viewing it as an ultimatum is victim-thinking and manipulative, in my opinion. Both want it their way.
 Midwest_Southwest2
Joined: 11/1/2013
Msg: 75
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 7:18:32 AM
typos and can't edit, "on one timelines" should be "on one's timeline."
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