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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Marriage, Is it a must???      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 lowmiles2
Joined: 6/5/2007
Msg: 76
Marriage, Is it a must???Page 4 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Interesting thread and well thought out. I wrote a similar thread and was scolded to think that another woman would even want to marry me. At least you presented it in a way that civility holds the line.

I married at a very young age and we raised two fine children to adulthood. We were married over thirty plus years . When the divorce came I told myself that I never wanted to be married again. Six years later I feel the same as then.

For me once is enough and have no plans to tie the knot again. If it ever came down to an ultimatum either you sign this document or I'm gone. Well... don't let the door hit you on your behind.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 77
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 12:19:52 PM
Good point caribbeanmoon. If people are in a pretend marriage because they don't use the standard church circus route, and things don't work out, they can get a pretend divorce, and fight for custody over pretend children.
 naysaying_knicktwist
Joined: 11/19/2009
Msg: 78
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 2:01:09 PM
cosmic_rocker
I've kind of discovered that the act of falling in love is rather like discovering something that is eternally there, and there was never a time when it wasn't. (I hope that makes sense...)


Makes sense to me. :-)
 strawberryrippleicecream
Joined: 10/29/2012
Msg: 79
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 3:35:02 PM
If you don't marry, it makes any of your children Illigitimate.

Look up the serious concerns we should all have, regarding Illigitimate'' babies.

Do the right thing, marry support your children, you dont have to live with them, but do the right things, and they deserve to have a paternal name, with 2 parents on their birth certificates.

 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 80
view profile
History
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 4:31:35 PM
"If you don't marry, it makes any of your children Illigitimate."

Why the assumption that people in this thread are planning to have children?

" marry support your children, you dont have to live with them, but do the right things"

You don't have to live with them?

Whether or not people marry, the two parents are required to support the children. Marriage doesn't mean you will end up with two parents who support their children.

I haven't seen one person in this thread promoting living separately or together while breeding children.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 81
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 4:38:17 PM
And your children being illegitimate matters why? Because all those single mom's out there aren't getting child support? hmmm, marriage doesn't change that statistic.

Btw, both names are on the birth certificate whether the parents are married or not.

Unless you are religious, marriage is an outdated social convention. Means nothing, means nothing to the children born of the relationship. Means everything to the government in the form of fees and tons for lawyers for prenups and divorces.

Would I marry again? Not in my plans, however...

If the person I love says it is marriage or nothing, then I would marry them. Why? Because it really doesn't mean that much to me one way or the other.
 Xray86
Joined: 2/2/2012
Msg: 82
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 4:42:15 PM

If the only way to prove you love someone is to get married, that is a recipe for failure. There should be no doubt about loving and committing to someone long before any talk of marriage, or other living arrangements. A big problem is a lot of people think having a wedding ceremony will solve all potential marital problems and the next phase is a fairy tale life and live happily ever after. That is not reality. Just ask people who are divorced how well a wedding ceremony created the fairy tale illusion of happily ever after.


Ah, so you're saying that people don't need to prove their love to another person? Just being the boyfriend/girlfriend for life is enough? Why would someone want only that? There's no progression in that. That's why I call it stagnant. Now I do agree that there are people who think being married solves everything and I do see that a lot in my own faith. That's also wrong because they're marrying the idea, not the person.


As "the resident Mormon," perhaps you can explain why, under your logic:
Why wouldn't people of the same gender who co-habitate be encouraged to be married?


Thank you for demonstrating that religious programming appears to be consistently inconsistent.


And thank you for demonstrating that secular programming appears to be consistently hostile to percieved religious "programming."

To forumreaderisall: Okay, forum reader. Since you have great reading skills, how is bringing up the cost of your divorce factor into anything I typed? Read my response above regarding proving oneself. And what ship you get off your high horse with accusing me of being naive and inexperienced? You think me being twenty seven somehow makes me dumb like a child? I don't need decades of experience when I see everything others around me do. Marriage is constantly changing/evolving/whatever because the people involved are changing, that's recognized and accepted. But come on, how can you have that if you're just the boyfriend or girlfirend. How can anyone be content with that? And like a typical Protestant, you immediately think that me being Mormon puts me into some bubbled existence where I can't concieve of anything non-Mormon. How do you figure I think others don't value marriage and family? And at what point did I indicate that it only takes religion? I only question why not take that leap of marriage if you're already "pretending" by co-habitating? I refuse to believe a couple that co-habitates all the sudden have "issues" as soon as they throw a party or sign a document.
 Post_PrepatoryLIFER
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 83
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 4:42:20 PM
I'm still a believer in Marriage. Its about the ultimate team of two people unifying and working together and with this, have no qualms about declaring it to the World- that they uphold the values and standards of what marriage should be about- loving one another and working to be selfless. Its about Family. I pass down these teachings and beliefs. IN the end; yes its a choice like anything else, from brushing your teeth, flossing, taking the bus to work, commuting or driving- just its a longer term decision of a life of hard work. I think that is what undoes most people today. The word work vs fun. Or selfless vs selfish.

A Read from this Week:
A Loving and Wise Father's advice to his Son:

My dad giving his response to my concerns was such a moment for me. With a knowing smile he said, “Seth, you’re being totally selfish. So I’m going to make this really simple: marriage isn’t for you. You don’t marry to make yourself happy, you marry to make someone else happy. More than that, your marriage isn’t for yourself, you’re marrying for a family. Not just for the in-laws and all of that nonsense, but for your future children. Who do you want to help you raise them? Who do you want to influence them? Marriage isn’t for you. It’s not about you. Marriage is about the person you married.”
http://sethadamsmith.com/2013/11/02/marriage-isnt-for-you/
 Post_PrepatoryLIFER
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 84
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 5:35:59 PM
I think being a person that lives with hope and joy and believes in the good of others over being a person that makes decisions out of fear, anger, and resentment- tend to be better off in life in General. They press forth, pick themselves up, brush themselves off, and begin anew. There is nothing sickening in this. Or should make anyone want to vomit. If it does- well may you always carry a vomit bag and something for upset stomach. ;)

“It is a risk to love.
What if it doesn't work out?
Ah, but what if it does.”

― Peter McWilliams
 or_current_resident
Joined: 6/3/2013
Msg: 85
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 5:49:39 PM

I married at a very young age and we raised two fine children to adulthood. We were married over thirty plus years . When the divorce came I told myself that I never wanted to be married again. Six years later I feel the same as then.

For me once is enough and have no plans to tie the knot again. If it ever came down to an ultimatum either you sign this document or I'm gone. Well... don't let the door hit you on your behind.


imo, those who were in successful relationships as long as yours & it takes more time to get attracted to someone again, let alone someone of substance for sure. And the quality of life you enjoyed for the most part, from a successful family etc....

I understand where you are coming from and now being older. And their are women over 50 who would still love to have someone in their life without demanding a legal doc to make them feel you are the real deal on love & commitment.

As life is short, but your character last longer..... and trust,honesty & commitment is what we bring to table, being older & wiser.

And if that don't convince them, then don't let the door hit u on the way out.... good luck, as their are still some women out there who will still value you, with your words & actions.....
 Xray86
Joined: 2/2/2012
Msg: 86
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 6:25:50 PM

How am I hostile just because I pointed out some flaws in your "deductive reasoning" about "all the romantic/social benefits of marriage" (which you still have not explained).

And where do you get off implying that the "perception" of your religious programming is on my end?

Dude, don't you remember YOU were the one who came on here, waving your flag, advertising your "programming" (everyone knows we're all about marriage and families) AND presuming to speak for the LDS community. Remember this?


What's there to explain with the benefits I mentioned? If you seriously need a list, that would be affection, sex, co-habitation, child-bearing/rearing. Why did that needed to be explained? And I'm pretty sure that saying religious programming is consistently inconsistent is where I deduced that that was a perception that YOU had. Do you really think I'm so feeble-minded that I need religion to tell me how to think? Maybe I already think in such a manner that correlates to LDS teaching. And the only reason I was waving a flag is to make sure people know where I'm coming from. And no, you're the one presuming I speak for the LDS community. I want you to show me in anything I typed where I specifically stated that I speak for all Mormons. Becuse I honestly don't see where I did. I do see where I mentioned being one when I talked about my ideas on the matter of marriage versus co-habitation. And for the record, I'm assuming this thread is not talking about people merely dating.


Gawd, how do you know you are the only Mormon around? Mormons get divorced, too, you know.


Yes they do. And your point is...?
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 87
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/7/2013 7:31:29 PM
^^^(Xray86) Here's a general question about religious beliefs and marriage. There are a lot of people in non-Christian religions (Sikhs, Muslims, etc.) who marry within their faith with their own marriage rituals, and they don't worship the Christian version of God. They have a different belief system about a higher power that controls the earth. Do Christians believe they are living in sin, or have an unholy, fake marriage because it wasn't sanctioned by God in a Christian ceremony? And do people in those non-Christian temples feel the same way about Christian marriages?
 Post_PrepatoryLIFER
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 88
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/8/2013 10:53:19 AM
Life- I was not promised that life was going to be easy. My parents said Life is about choice.

We choose to make the most of it. Since we value Free Agency; we have to understand that there are Billions others that are exercising the gift of free will and this will often, have us at the mercy of others, exercising their free agency. In a Marriage, it absolutely takes both to say WE promise to do this, live this, be this, and just one to say Goodbye.

Attitude, Hope, and Enduring is what makes each day joyful for me. I'm happier than I have ever been in my life. Many are prepared. And there are plenty of good men out there that believe and desire the same life goals. Thank goodness!
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 89
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/8/2013 11:22:17 AM

“Seth, you’re being totally selfish. So I’m going to make this really simple: marriage isn’t for you. You don’t marry to make yourself happy, you marry to make someone else happy. More than that, your marriage isn’t for yourself, you’re marrying for a family. Not just for the in-laws and all of that nonsense, but for your future children.



I've often heard it stated that for any long term relationship or marriage to work, the relationship is dysfunctional, it has to be to work. When one partner decides to stop the dysfunction the relationship falls apart. This blogger, IMO, has received some very bad advice. It's making marriage sound like a whole lot of sacrifice that no one should have to make.


I would only get married because it made me happy. Of course I want my spouse to be happy also, otherwise I will end up miserable.

I am not sure I agree with the dysfunctional statement.

I can see where they are coming from if you have major level of dysfunction , maybe your mate complements you by filling in where you fail.

But we all have some level of dysfunction, so perhaps this is a non-statement?

I agree I need to put my needs on a par with my wife. It we can compromise to meet both of our needs, or if our needs match with need for compromise, then I think a marriage can be successful.

BTW, I got married because that is the only way I could get a Visa for my wife. Additionally, being married gives her my future SS benefits, and if we have children and I should die before they are 18, she can collect benefits until they are 18 years of age.

This made it an easy decision for me, in my mind it was either break up or get married. It wouldn't be fair to her to live apart and visit a couple of times a year to Thailand. It would work OK for me, though it gets too expensive to do on a regular basis.
 Xray86
Joined: 2/2/2012
Msg: 90
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/8/2013 12:58:52 PM

Because you stated, " If you're already pretending to be married, why not actually do it?" I gave you a reason, no divorce cost if you split up. Does this connect the dots for you?


Well now that you explained it, yeah it connects the dots. I'm not going to pick up on something like that if you give some random example and not tie it to what was being said with some explanation of why it's being mentioned. Different thought processes. But it brings up a sort of selfishness if you worry about divorce costs or asset allocation. If I was with a woman and the only thing holding us back from marriage is her worrying about that stuff, that tells me she doesn't trust me regardless of her reasoning.


"Yeah I'm biased because I'm Mormon and everyone knows we're all about marriage and families." Read your statement again and see if you don't see implications reeking from it. Who's all about marriage and families? Well, according to you, Mormons must top the list since "everyone knows".


I still don't see the implications. What I meant by the statement was that since we as a religion are about marriage and families, that my opinion and attitude is biased towards supporting marriage.


The problem is, vows aren't taken seriously. Trust can vanish in a moment after decades of existence.


I'm sure a balance here needs to be struck but I find this mindset in the younger group of the baby boomers and the Gen X generation. The ME generation did wonders to undermine marriage and what sacrifice and commitment meant, (four letter words instead of honorable ones). What I find really funny is the advice to do volunteer work to get out of one's funk after a divorce to feel better. What? This same group of people who suggest doing this is the same group that thinks it's 'gagging' to do things for your spouse. How contradictory is that?


Both these I agree with and it goes back to what I was typing about when it comes to suddenly ruin things. For one, I just can't see how going from one state of the relationship to a greater state ruins it for the people involved unless they weren't ready. And second, this tells me that this is a personal problem for one or both people. Marriage itself can't be bad. It's the people involved that make it bad. How do you explain the MANY relationships that (seemingly) did fine if marriage really was a bad thing?


Here's a general question about religious beliefs and marriage. There are a lot of people in non-Christian religions (Sikhs, Muslims, etc.) who marry within their faith with their own marriage rituals, and they don't worship the Christian version of God. They have a different belief system about a higher power that controls the earth. Do Christians believe they are living in sin, or have an unholy, fake marriage because it wasn't sanctioned by God in a Christian ceremony? And do people in those non-Christian temples feel the same way about Christian marriages?


I can't speak for the other Christian groups and honestly don't care to. I can tell you what the LDS faith teaches about that. We believe that people are only guilty of sin based on their personal knowledge of the world. Basically you can't be punished for something you know nothing about. We also believe in free agency, which is the right to choose. It's up to the individual to choose for him/herself what they want to believe in whether it's Christianity, Paganism, atheism, whatever. We recognize that people don't believe in the same things we do because of the afformentioned beliefs that we have. As far as how non-Christian groups view Christian marriages, I don't know. I'm not a theologist but I would hope that they see things like us and not condemn us for not having the same religious beliefs. For me personally, marriage is marriage and it doesn't matter if you made a circle holding hands, ask some guy to sprinkle water on you, or go to the judge with papers. You do whatever you want to do to be married.
 Theme_Pack
Joined: 5/3/2013
Msg: 91
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/9/2013 3:53:45 AM
I think God forgot to mention a few things when he was scribbling on that piece of rock...just some little things, like slavery etc.
On Topic; I won't get married again especially by some charlatan....who thinks he /she knows more than I know.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 92
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/9/2013 7:49:42 AM
For a relationship to truly work, you have to have full commitment to the relationship. That means that when the going gets tough, you stick to it and work through it. That is something that in our disposable, instant satisfaction, ADD present society does not exist, with and without the piece of paper.

So, I think marriage is important only when kids are involved and you want the benefits that come with that.
I was married twenty years, and the first 10 were awesome, the next five were rocky with ups and downs, but well worth it, but the last four to five years, were kept together simply because of that institution called marriage, not because we still had passion for each other.

I would almost prefer to have 5 year contracts, in which at the end of that period you make an assessment, and decide to stay together or be done with it. The big problem I see as well, is that after people get married, everything becomes an assumption, "you are supposed to do this," "you're supposed to do that." People stop working at creating intimacy until they get to the point that all that is left is resentment.

So whether you have a paper or not, you should make a promise that you will work at the relationship, at being intimate, at telling and expressing your love for the other person ALL the time, and for nurturing what is good in the other by supporting them in the pursuit of their dreams and aspirations.

There.
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 93
view profile
History
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/9/2013 8:05:00 AM

Marriage, Is it a must??


This is your brain...This is your brain on drugs...Any questions?
 Xray86
Joined: 2/2/2012
Msg: 94
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/9/2013 3:24:58 PM
I think God forgot to mention a few things when he was scribbling on that piece of rock...just some little things, like slavery etc.


What about slavery?


YOU anointed YOURSELF as "THE RESIDENT Mormon."


Really, if you do not understand the difference between "a" as in any and "the" as in unique - i.e. the difference between calling yourself A Mormon; and calling yourself "THE RESIDENT Mormon," as in a singular example of such, there is little hope for our educational system.

You are saying you are "the" Mormon ... one, singular, etc. As if you are the only one to represent or speak for such.

You presume to be the only one on these boards, by calling yourself the RESIDENT Mormon ,as if you believe to be the unique representative. How arrogant and presumptuous.

Feel free to speak as "A" Mormon, because that is all you are qualified to do, unless you are in some "official" LDS position of which we are unaware.

Don't blame me for your lack of understanding on how to properly construct your "thoughts." You painted yourself into a corner with your own words. It just sounds silly and reeks of hubris.


ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS?!? You're going to jump all over my case because of a choice of words??? First, you know nothing of my educational background and I know the difference between "a" and "the" as well as their conceptual use. Second of all, just because I called myself "the resident Mormon" in no way implies I'm the only representative and certainly not arrogant or presumptuous on my part for using an identifier. And third of all, I don't see anyone else on the forums saying I'm only qualified to speak in a certain way because of one word I may or may not have used. If anyone has an issue, they can always say something. And for the record, my title is Elder in the Church. That's all the qualifications I need to speak for the church since I'm the only one doing so at this time till someone with greater authority comes along and say otherwise. We clearly have very different backgrounds in word usage.
 lostnfoundluv
Joined: 1/10/2009
Msg: 95
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/9/2013 4:48:21 PM
This world is going to have lots and lots of single people dying single in the near future. Lots of single parents . lots of deseases especially sexually transmitted deseases. From civilization to cave men era !
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 96
view profile
History
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/9/2013 5:13:41 PM
"This world is going to have lots and lots of single people dying single in the near future. "

Some single people choose to remain single from now until they leave this world. If it is what they want there is no problem with that. Nothing uncivilized about it.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 97
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/9/2013 8:49:33 PM
1) relationships work only when you have a healthy mindset. as a result, you will find like minded individuals, as unhealthy-minded people also find like-minded individuals. Unlike them, however, your healthy mind will drive you towards dedication, while the unhealthy mind shrinks away from it in fear.

2)lots of animals die alone-dogs try to do it on purpose, when they know its coming. my parents died separately, not in each others' arms. Then again, with dementia, I figure they "left" years before their bodies got the notice.

i used to agree with Thomas Paine's sentiment on the evils of inheritance, but now I'm practically set for life as a result, so I can't be so hypocritical :) Will I die alone? likely. Like the last doctor to take care of my mother stated, life is a book, and death should be written as well as any other chapter in it. I've got 50/50 odds of getting the dementia my mother had, so I wouldn't wish that on any partner (its never the victim who suffers this disease, its the caretaker).

I won't really know what's going on, and if there's enough left for the state to take, so be it. I'm enjoying what I have now--retired at age 43, I won't ever be saying, "Wish I spent more time at the office!" on my deathbed :) Does that liberty make up for not being married? well....like chicken soup, it doesn't hurt :) If a lady in my area has the brains to realize she should be spending time w/ me instead of someone who treats her poorly, then great. If those who are that smart are already taken, oh well, I still have my time free--and its a hell of a gift, in my book.
 Theme_Pack
Joined: 5/3/2013
Msg: 98
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/10/2013 4:20:50 AM
MSG 107: What about slavery...Religons built their empires with slavery. Just maybe that man(because it was a man that wrote them) could have included (on that tablet) the fact the people should not be owned, kept or ruled over by other people.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 99
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/10/2013 11:51:14 AM

This world is going to have lots and lots of single people dying single in the near future.

Many people that die are single, divorced, widowed, etc. What does this have to do with getting married? You can be married for years and unless you die on the same day someone's going to have to outlive the other and go it alone. Plus, of course we all die alone anyway regardless of who is with us.

Lots of single parents . lots of deseases especially sexually transmitted deseases. From civilization to cave men era !

What does this mean and how does it relate to the topic and previous sentence?
 elmuchoburrito
Joined: 8/27/2013
Msg: 100
Marriage, Is it a must???
Posted: 11/10/2013 12:15:39 PM
Marriage is completely and wholly avoidable; and certainly not required.
(unless the government wants to mandate it - thus giving me one more reason to hate the meddling of the Central Govt)
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