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Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  > My family is very important      Home login  
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 CynthiaSM
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 51
My family is very importantPage 3 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

It is simply a truism that if your family comes first then your partner must come second.

Umm, by the time I use the word "partner" to refer to the significant adult in my life they ARE my family. So this quote/thought is not a truism.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 52
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 7:31:19 AM

When the shiat hit the fan and things were looking decidedly bad my family was there for me in spades and all three of them wanted me to move in with them.


But, are you there for them???? Seems you are more worried about what people can do for you, instead of the other way around. Thus the reason for post, correct???? Your scared that if someone puts "My family is important", you are gonna be playing second fiddle. It's obvious by the words you are choosing, that, yes, you are lonely and looking for comfort, and a "guarantee". There are no "guarantees" in most of our lives but, family can be one of them.
 ArtisteRoyale
Joined: 11/5/2013
Msg: 53
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 7:47:24 AM

But, are you there for them????


Of course I am and there for my partner's family too. You are confusing emergencies with everyday life. The only person to use the word "guarantee" is you. You then transpose this word to me and then criticise me for wanting it. There is a word for that kind of debate. I can't think of the word but it is a dishonest technique. You want me to defend myself against something I never said. Nice try but no cigar!
 ArtisteRoyale
Joined: 11/5/2013
Msg: 54
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 8:08:01 AM

Umm, by the time I use the word "partner" to refer to the significant adult in my life they ARE my family. So this quote/thought is not a truism.


You are using semantics and begging the question. By defining "partner" your own way you make your statement true.
My definition of "partner" makes my statement true. You may have a good point that "partner" needs to be defined and I'm quite sure we will disagree on that definition. I would first debate that the definition is moot since the subject is too general to be submitted to specific definitions. I also think you have your tongue in your cheek because you know very well what I mean.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 55
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 8:18:28 AM
So what you are looking for is validation of your opinion and anything other than is wrong. Buddy you came to the wrong place for that!
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 56
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 8:23:55 AM
So what you are looking for is validation of your opinion and anything other than is wrong. Buddy you came to the wrong place for that!

+1

You are using semantics and begging the question. By defining "partner" your own way you make your statement true.
My definition of "partner" makes my statement true.

In other words, your definition a person who is significant enough to you for you to refer to them as your "partner" and place them ABOVE/AHEAD OF your "family" is NOT part of your "family"?
Then what is your definition of partner and definition of family? Do you expressly disclose this to the women you date?
By your definition you will never be as important as her kids, siblings, parents, cousins, dog-children-replacements, or 50 cats. Give up all hope now. Date only women who sprang fully formed from a seashell.
To your attempted critique - in a topic where each poster's opinion is dependent on their definition of the terms they use, then yes I define partner and family as I use them and vice versa.

If you have posted this in your profile please explain what you mean by it.

Now I guess OP will come back with I can't have an opinion on this topic and shouldn't even post here because I do not have that (insipid and so ambiguous as to be meaningless) line in my profile.
 ArtisteRoyale
Joined: 11/5/2013
Msg: 57
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 8:39:24 AM

So what you are looking for is validation of your opinion and anything other than is wrong. Buddy you came to the wrong place for that!

Except that I arrived with a question and got answers. I didn't have an opinion (except that something was fishy). I have received numerous " answers" and many of them ring true. This is sociology and there will never be a definitive, one and only answer to any one question but lots of posters have submitted good answers and I managed to deduce one of my own from a posters comment. I go away from this debate with a lot of good insight. It was a fishy statement and can mean a lot of things (most of them bad). One poster said words to the effect that this was not happy families but a dating site and I thought that summed things up very well. If you didn't learn anything from this thread you should go back and read it all again there was a lot of good insight into relationship problems involving family.
I came away impressed by the general level of posters here. To be perfectly honest about it the dating part of this site sucks pretty bad but the forum is extremely good. There is probably a whole new thread right there!
 ArtisteRoyale
Joined: 11/5/2013
Msg: 58
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 8:46:35 AM

In other words, your definition a person who is significant enough to you for you to refer to them as your "partner" and place them ABOVE/AHEAD OF your "family" is NOT part of your "family"?
Then what is your definition of partner and definition of family? Do you expressly disclose this to the women you date?
By your definition you will never be as important as her kids, siblings, parents, cousins, dog-children-replacements, or 50 cats. Give up all hope now. Date only women who sprang fully formed from a seashell.
To your attempted critique - in a topic where each poster's opinion is dependent on their definition of the terms they use, then yes I define partner and family as I use them and vice versa.

I have no clue what you are saying. Might I respectfully suggest you calm down and express yourself in plain English.
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 59
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 8:51:33 AM
Sorry, I'll use small words.
You disagree with my definition that partner = family.
Therefore, your definition of partner must mean they are not family.
Do you tell the women you date (I assume you actually have had a date) that even if you someday refer to them as your partner they are not your family?
 Midwest_Southwest2
Joined: 11/1/2013
Msg: 60
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 8:59:15 AM

My last relationship was 24/7 and it was just great. We did everything together (I work at home). In terms of hours spent together we often joked that we had been married for 30 years compared to the hours spent together by an "average" couple.

I think that your definition of “partner” and the type of relationship that “worked for you” is essential to your perspective. 24/7 is what you like whereas that would be suffocating and boring to me. Also, I never experienced a romantic relationship in which I compared or ranked my position or importance in a hierarchy with other things that were important to him. I don’t feel like a second class citizen if my partner has other priorities, interests and relationships, in addition to our relationship.
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 61
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 9:04:38 AM


OP-It is simply a truism that if your family comes first then your partner must come second.

Me: Umm, by the time I use the word "partner" to refer to the significant adult in my life they ARE my family. So this quote/thought is not a truism.


OP - You are using semantics and begging the question. By defining "partner" your own way you make your statement true.

You got the exact opposite interpretation in your rush to disagree with anyone/everyone who does not validate you.
My point is that my meaning of "partner" and of "family" is NOT mere semantics; there is a living-qualitative-relationship difference than the way you (apparently) use those words.
Someone I "meet", "date", or read their profile is not a "partner." By the time I know a person well enough and we have established a relationship that is deep enough, connected enough, meaningful enough, supportive enough that I use the word "partner" to refer to them, then they are my family. *I* do not reserve the word "family" only for my kids, parents, siblings, cousins, related by blood or marriage, etc. "Family", to me, is a person who is close in my heart.

I think OP doesn't get that.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 62
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 9:17:19 AM
Except that I arrived with a question and got answers. I didn't have an opinion (except that something was fishy).

So you did have an opinion and it was negative regarding the statement that family was important.


I have received numerous " answers" and many of them ring true.


Yes you did receive numerous answers and you disagreed with all of them except for those posted by the group we like to call the "bitter bros.



This is sociology and there will never be a definitive, one and only answer to any one question but lots of posters have submitted good answers and I managed to deduce one of my own from a posters comment.


So of all the people that answered, you "deduced" your own from a poster who agreed with the opinion you had coming in.


I go away from this debate with a lot of good insight. It was a fishy statement and can mean a lot of things (most of them bad).


Holy h3ll, the majority of posters told you that it did not mean anything bad and was not fishy at all and you are saying you got insight from this? No you didn't, you told the people you didn't agree with that we were wrong and you received your validation from the bitter bros and will carry on from there.


One poster said words to the effect that this was not happy families but a dating site and I thought that summed things up very well.


That is right, it is a dating site, but if you are looking for a LTR, family is going to come into play.



If you didn't learn anything from this thread you should go back and read it all again there was a lot of good insight into relationship problems involving family.


I think you might need to go back and read it all again so that you can see that there are not nearly as many relationship problems involving family as you seem to think there are.


I came away impressed by the general level of posters here. To be perfectly honest about it the dating part of this site sucks pretty bad but the forum is extremely good. There is probably a whole new thread right there!


Hmm. sucks for some, not so much for others. Why is that? Nobody seems to really know.



I think OP doesn't get that


I am sure the OP doesn't get it.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 63
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 9:38:52 AM

You want me to defend myself against something I never said


Kinda like, when you say things like,


It looks to me that these women are really saying "You will always be second to my family, get used to it!" I have no idea how they expect to be treated with respect to my family but is this a code for a relationship that will never be close? A partnership of convenience?


You don't understand, and you won't when dismissing what people say to you here, when YOU asked the questions that you have. You haven't stopped, since you started. There is a word for that too. It's called being ignorant and arrogant at the same time. They don't mix. You can either be one, or the other. You choose.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 64
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 9:54:48 AM

To Fleuron: Your quote of my quote "It is certainly a problem and I think it needs to be thought through because I have no intention of ever becoming a second class member of anything ever again."
You assume too much. I was referring to a situation when I was a second class citizen because of race in another country.


Oh brother, right. You think women who put “my family is very important to me” is “code” for their family comes first and always will, because you were treated like a second class citizen because of your race in another country. Wow that’s lame, even around here.

It’s pretty darn obvious some woman paid too much attention to her family to suit you, so now all women who have “my family is important to me” will all pay too much attention to their families to suit you. Seems to me those women wouldn’t want anything to do with you anyway, so what’s the problem.

You ignored my questions, so I’ll post them again:


That’s quite a leap. Do you make that assumption if a woman states that her dog is important to her, or her job, or her hobbies, or her activism, or anything else in her life? Are you looking for a woman with nothing in her life but you?
 Ladyinred4755
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 65
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 10:12:20 AM
I now get it. "family is important" is code for "I have a lot of important family commitments so I can only accommodate a part time boyfriend/girlfriend." This sounds sleazy so a euphemism is invented. I'm quite sure those who use this euphemism have no idea what they are saying or why and yet they say it. It all makes perfect sense now. I get it.
NO NO NO OP, you DO NOT get it! IMO you twisted, spun around a few times, omitted the meaning or simple truth of what I wrote previously in this thread. I can not speak for others. I can only speak for myself. The content of my profile is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The words I use and my pictures ARE ME. The opinions or contributions to this thread by Doremi Fasolatido, DragonBits, AND Walts are virtually "spot on". THEY GET IT! .................Just a suggestion OP, be openly honest in your own profile. Be direct in conveying to the reader the type of woman you seek. If you need a 24/7 type woman, then say so.........................I could say more here, but I'm biting my tongue. (Oh crap, I'm dripping blood on my keyboard)
 ArtisteRoyale
Joined: 11/5/2013
Msg: 66
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 10:26:22 AM
A lot of response but I will start with you since you are first. I will have to get back to others later;

Sorry, I'll use small words.

Very much appreciated.

You disagree with my definition that partner = family.

No I don't. I thought the whole thrust of my point is that the original partner was definitely family (husband/wife) and that a subsequent partner must be given the same status ie. family. In the same way that your children's father relates to your children then the new partner must have the same position. Exactly as you would want your position in relation to your partner's kids. Any other arrangement and the kids are highly likely to sabotage the relationship. Not necessarily but probable and you or your partner must not subordinate yourselves to anybody and that includes kids.

Therefore, your definition of partner must mean they are not family.

See above, do you usually assume answers without actually getting one? Need I go on? You are setting up straw men all over the place it is quite silly.
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 67
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 10:35:32 AM
Oh puleeze OP, you can't even remember what you wrote. Go back to your OP (that I quoted in msg 53) where you say it is a truism that if family is 1st, then partner is second. Then by definition partner and family must be different entities that you rank separately.

And with that I'm out. No fun discussing or debating with someone who constantly claims they said something other than they actually did.

There's a name for that but I can't think of it right now. Disingenuous would be charitable.
 ArtisteRoyale
Joined: 11/5/2013
Msg: 68
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 10:47:56 AM

That’s quite a leap. Do you make that assumption if a woman states that her dog is important to her, or her job, or her hobbies, or her activism, or anything else in her life? Are you looking for a woman with nothing in her life but you?

Surely the whole point of posting interests, hobbies, pets etc. is to find someone who likes the same things that you do. If these things do not match your interests then there is simply no match. Are you seriously suggesting that if a woman's interests etc. are different to mine that I should date her anyway. Just exactly what are you saying? If a woman's primary interest is her family, what exactly is my role? Going a little further what will be her involvement with my family if her family is so important? Surely there has to be a sharing here? I see posting the family thing as redundant and therefor odd. What is obvious to you is made up nonsense. You know nothing about me and making up my history to satisfy your debating position is pretty sad.
 ArtisteRoyale
Joined: 11/5/2013
Msg: 69
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 10:56:16 AM

Oh puleeze OP, you can't even remember what you wrote. Go back to your OP (that I quoted in msg 53) where you say it is a truism that if family is 1st, then partner is second. Then by definition partner and family must be different entities that you rank separately.

You don't see the difference in what I say on my own behalf and what I quote others as saying? If I refer to a partner she has the same status as family. The whole thrust of this thread is that many profiles either suggest or outright say that their family comes first. This is the opposite of my own position. You don't see that?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 70
view profile
History
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 11:35:47 AM
I'm reading a lot of the back and forth on this, and I think I'm seeing a lot of people arguing from confusion. I still think that solving this conundrum for the OP has to start with his figuring out exactly why "my family is important" sets him off so much.

The definitions of individual words and concepts is tremendously important in this, and I think that a lot of people are getting hot under the collar more because they are working from different definitions, and unspoken principles, than because they actually disagree.

"Family" in particular needs both an objective definition (i.e. who is and who isn't family), and even more important, it needs a TEMPORAL definition. That is, it seems that everyone agrees that once a person has BECOME a mate or "esso" (Significant Other), then they at least SHOULD qualify as nearly equally " family" as a genetically linked person is. The thing is, that when we are looking at profiles, we haven't reached that time yet, so the fact that a potential mate might COME to see their mate as family, doesn't apply yet.

This is all about the showing of, and the sensing of, value and importance to one another. I suspect that what MIGHT be upsetting the OP, is that the rather bland and meaningless phrase "my family is very important to me," COULD mean that before he even initiates contact, that the person in question is already putting up barriers to his BECOMING important to them. It's what a lot of female commentators refer to as being "emotionally unavailable."

While "my family is important to me" goes right through my own "sensitive freak out" alarm systems, there are some other phrases that would set off my duck-and-cover sirens. They have to do with my own past emotional injuries and thus areas of extra sensitivity. The phrases that will set me off, would appear mundane and even adorable to some other folks here. So though I don't share the Op's exact sensitivity, I do recognize the general situation.

But now other people are fighting from their own points of view, and arguing at cross purposes with each other. Ire is rising without much actual disagreement at it's base, all because the exact details as to what each person is actually talking about, haven't been defined.

Op, getting back to the start of all this, I think that two things are true:

1) the phrase you are upset about IS just a mundane thing that people like to say, and really SHOULDN'T upset you as it does. HOWEVER...

2) this does NOT mean that what you ARE actually upset about, is without validity.

What it does mean, is that your problem with people using that phrase will only be resolved, after you completely work out your personal concern that led to it setting you off. After doing that, you will be able to recognize that not everyone who uses that phrase, is either identical to whoever did you wrong, and nor are they in any way giving public support to the person who did you wrong. Therefore there really IS no reason to attack people who use what really is, just as meaningless and obvious a thing to say as it appears to be.
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 71
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 11:40:32 AM
OP, IMO the only women that will want to spend 24/7 with a partner are those that for whom family is very important to them. Whether they state that or not, excluding orphans / those without any family.

I would tend to think those without any family aren’t likely to prefer such close relationships. They may have never had that close of a relationship. Those who don't think their family is important to them are likely very independent or have a strained relationship with family. IM experience those from unhappy families have other habits that makes them less than happy mates. They tend to always be compensating in some way for past problems.

My wife is very much someone that wants to spend 24/7 with me as much as possible. She being Thai also values her family highly. This is typical of Thai culture.

When she is with her family, she wants me with her. She wants to spend time with her family, which always includes me. She values my mother and myself because we are now part of her family.

As CynthiaSM said, a partner becomes part of family, and family is very important.

Upon thinking about this, I believe you will have to date those that in someway say family is important to them. When dating them you would have to determine whether they are someone that will include their husband / partner as a part of their family.

It's likely you will get two types that say family is important to them. Ones who will always put a man into second place, and ones who want to include a man into her family.

Do you want to spend time with your partner visiting and interacting with her family? Even if they are children, grandchildren, can you treat them like your own family? Spend time together?

However, if you only want someone that wants exactly the same things you want, then that seems to be a different problem. You seem to say you only want someone that wants the exact same things as you do? What do you do about any differences of opinion? Surely no one is an exact clone. That implies you want someone subservient to you.

Additionally, it's likely someone that wants to spend 24/7 with you wants to get married. Not something you have metioned, so I assume you are looking to get married.

IMO one of the biggest problems with online dating is that people chose to peruse the wrong type of person because of some preconceived notion of who they are compatible with.

BTW, saying your family is important to a woman isn't the same as stating family comes first. Though I wouldn't get too hung up on sematics as most people aren't careful about exact wording. I would look into it to see if they really mean that a partner comes in second place.
 ArtisteRoyale
Joined: 11/5/2013
Msg: 72
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 12:16:39 PM
to Igor:

I'm reading a lot of the back and forth on this, and I think I'm seeing a lot of people arguing from confusion. I still think that solving this conundrum for the OP has to start with his figuring out exactly why "my family is important" sets him off so much.

As with your previous post I have to say you are a breath of fresh air. Everything you say is quite correct but to answer your direct question as quoted above: I have no previous personal experience with family problems but I have friends who do and I am anxious to avoid falling down the same rat hole that they are in right now. I can't give details because I am quite well known in my own community and I don't want to embarrass my friends. I have only three previous relationships of any note and none of them had family oriented problems ( I do have to admit though that for two of them their family was not resident in the same country so maybe that is cheating a little.) My issue is totally avoidance and there is no actual experience.
Jeepers Igor, you are such a cool, sensible and intelligent guy, what on Earth are you doing on here? What's a nice guy like you doing in a swamp like this? No I am not gay! So many are quick to anger, I like to make a point of passing on kudos. You got any sisters?
 ArtisteRoyale
Joined: 11/5/2013
Msg: 73
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 12:31:55 PM
When she is with her family, she wants me with her. She wants to spend time with her family, which always includes me. She values my mother and myself because we are now part of her family.

Exactly. I see nothing wrong with being together all the time with both families. However I see around me how it is not always so pleasant. There are those who put their kids, often grown, first and that is what I want to avoid. You are right that there are two types and I am just trying to identify the red flag.

Do you want to spend time with your partner visiting and interacting with her family? Even if they are children, grandchildren, can you treat them like your own family? Spend time together?

Absolutely, I see no other way and I love kids anyway. I see no problem with that arrangement, the only way to go actually. Marriage is also the only way to go in my books but the law makes things difficult with property ownership etc. It can be worked out though and if it can, I think marriage is a statement of commitment that is necessary. Anything less is really telling your partner that you will go along until something better shows up.
Similar kudos to you as to Igor (but he is better looking)
 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 74
view profile
History
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 12:42:34 PM
OP I haven't read all of the posts.

So, let's break this down a little:

you're curious about this
a very large percentage of women declare that their family is very important in their lives.


you answer your own question with this:
It looks to me that these women are really saying "You will always be second to my family, get used to it!"
Of all the possible answers why this???

of all the possible reasons (listed by numerous folks in this thread) your reject most of the answers.

So, there is something about your own answer that seems to resonate for you. The statement has a rejecting edge, a pecking order, my way or the highway ultimatum. I'm curious if on an unconcious level you experienced in your past someone who rejected you, made you feel second rate and your natural self protection mechanism is on the look out for such a future situation - when you read the 'family first' line - this activates this experience and you have a negative reaction to it...but it also seems very perplexing to you that someone who has such an unappealing attitude would be looking on-line for a potential mate. So you are curious about this contradition - being rejecting yet seeing a mate.
I think this is what you are trying to figure out on the forum it just doesn't seem to be going very well.

What do you think?
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 75
My family is very important
Posted: 11/10/2013 12:56:17 PM
I think people who say this are trying to let potentials know they won't shelf their family for a new person - perhaps they were told by an ex that they expected to be put before everyone else in the picture (or in some way the message was conveyed that they were to be revolved around).
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