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Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  > Is the "friendzone" even real...      Home login  
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 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 57
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Is the friendzone even real... Page 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Aaiiicggheeghcg. This whole thread reminds me of the "that depends on what the definition of the word "is" is." thing.

The challenge for people here isn't the definition of "friendzone," the challenge here is the definition of "REAL."

No, it isn't REAL in the scientific sense of the word. There is no measurable, predictable, quantifiable substance to it of any kind. If there were, then anyone who wanted to could break out of the "friend zone" WITHOUT the cooperation of the person who put them there.

Yes, it is REAL, in the same sense that anything people put a name to is. It is a label someone came up with (probably in the fifties or sixties, out of the popularity of the old Twilight Zone TV series) to vent their frustration about REALLY finding themselves out of the running with someone they continue to want. But then, you can take two identical closets with a toilet and a sink in them, label one "mens room," and the other "womens room," and it wont cause the porcelain colors to change to pink in one, and to blue in the other.

Yes, its a real label, and a real concept. No, it isn't a real place.

One thing I can tell you for sure, I've never even HEARD of someone saying "Oops! I really wish I could boink that person until their eyes pop out, and marry them, but unfortunately, when I first met them, I put them into the dreaded Friend Zone...and once I did that, there is no way to save them ever again, because the Friend Zone is a magical prison with no key!!"
 nyceguy85
Joined: 1/11/2013
Msg: 58
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/6/2014 11:17:06 AM

Most men are friend zoned right away because the male is serious way too soon after meeting the women. Slow down and let the female get a chance to know you and for you to "really" know her, not an illusion of perfection you may think she is based on her looks alone.


That is a catch 22. If a man is too serious too soon, he is friendzoned in an effort for the woman to avoid being the bad guy. If he is takes too long being serious, the woman may perceive that as him not being interested. Do you know how confusing that can be to a guy? The woman knows good and well what it will take for her to be committed to the guy she is dating, but instead of her sharing that information with a guy, she allows him to put himself out there, blindly might I add, and the chips fall where they may. Women typically dont know how disrespectful the friendzone is until they become friendzoned by men they have an interest in.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 59
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/7/2014 1:09:13 PM

Most men are friend zoned right away because the male is serious way too soon after meeting the women. Slow down and let the female get a chance to know you and for you to "really" know her, not an illusion of perfection you may think she is based on her looks alone.

Going slow is NOT "friend zoning". There IS no pace -- there IS no goal. It means Not Interested, but, as a person, you're cool, we can be friends. It's a mentality -- not an official announcement. It's just how they feel.

It's not Bobby "taking it slow" with Sally. If you're "taking it" anywhere at any "pace" -- you're not just friends... you're outside the friend zone.

Friend Zone = JUST a friend with no attraction/interest level of being anything more than that.

EX:
Sally is just a friend. When we hang out, and once in a while it's just us, I can get the waitress' number. Sally and I are just friends -- purely platonic.

Martha is a friend who's more than just a friend. We're taking it slow. We're not just friends. It's different than that. Because we're "taking IT" (slow). It being non-platonic.

Friend Zone = Feeling Just Platonic for someone
 PlentyofThis123
Joined: 11/23/2013
Msg: 60
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/7/2014 2:11:42 PM
I think the "Starting out as friends" is a bit of a misnomer or perhaps not the most accurate way of putting , though we see it countless times on dating profiles. It should say something along the lines of, "Starting off in a friendly fashion" or "keeping it light".
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 61
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Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/8/2014 10:50:14 AM

The friends zone is very real.
I will translate this into English, your getting used by some woman in some way. Here is a typical scenario. Giving her free dinners or diving her around shopping all the time, eating up your valuable time, etc. She will be leaching off you in a variety of ways yet never willing to give herself to you, she feels she has better options. Usually this will involve guilt or sympathy manipulation. User women like this are typically very insecure followers who are unable to critically think, they will do this kind of stuff to you for years and put out for a thug on the first date who will never do any of those things you were doing.
You DO NOT have to accept this behavior.
Just refuse to give what she wants no matter what. If she is stuck in the desert with no water leaver her there to die, that's the attitude you need to take (she would likely do the same to you - promise help and do nothing out of fear). Every time she hits you up tell her your busy with your girlfriend and its none of her business. Basically end the abusive relationship no matter what kind of BS manipulation is tried.
There is no easy way to fix this.


You have confused the idea of the rather comedic "friendzone," with a cross between gold-digging and prostitution. Even at that, your proposal to deal out death-by-neglect to people who upset your ego, is just a wee bit "off." I hope you recover your wits someday.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 62
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/8/2014 1:36:12 PM
I think the "Starting out as friends" is a bit of a misnomer or perhaps not the most accurate way of putting , though we see it countless times on dating profiles

It's definitely an eye-roller. Even crazier when one puts that + saying "I don't play games". Uhhh, "friends first"/"start out as friends" IS playing games. It's hiding behind obfuscation. If it was clearly truly being friends -- you could hit on the waitress and kiss her in front of the other gal -- and you're not covering any bill for her either, because you're just friends at first hangout.

It should say something along the lines of, "Starting off in a friendly fashion"

Yeah, I agree. But that'd be kind of odd to say, though. I mean, who doesn't have that aim? You start it off in a friendly way, then what? By 5th date you start antagonizing each other? :)

or "keeping it light"

Yeah. A side note that they don't want to be wined & dined, but more like hanging out, little expectations, taking the casual approach at first. Some truly just mean that and don't give the saying "Friends First" or "Start out as Friends" a second thought and instead just spout it out ala advice from their peers. But many actually want the (non-sexual) benefits of "just being friends" + the (non-sexual) benefits of a Date.

While on outing #x, if the guy finds out she's seeing some other dude and scampers off with him because he coincidentally showed up -- hey, he's not supposed to be "wtf". They're just friends!

Always best, as you point out, to say something different, which actually has a different meaning: Keep it light & casual. OR at least "take things slow", if that's what they mean (although that is overly abstract; one can only take that as not rushing things, which most people don't anyway by default).
 bass_fish
Joined: 8/11/2012
Msg: 63
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/16/2014 7:25:20 PM
Lets just say its real...Can you get out of it once youre in it? People can reivent themselves and change the initial impressions that women/men had on you. Myth?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 64
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/16/2014 8:51:43 PM
Can you get out of it once youre in it?

Don't expect to at all. Pretty much assume No.

People can reivent themselves and change the initial impressions that women/men had on you. Myth?

As much a myth as "You can do whatever you want in life!" -- No, not really. :)

The best shot (still small) to get out of actual Friend Zone (being seen as Only-Platonic by female friend):
- Don't try to get her. At. All. Do the opposite. Give her less attention than you previously had.
- Don't spend much time around her -- keep the length of time between the # of times you're around her large
- In the mean time, increase your Looks up a Lot. Gym helps. Takes many months, but it's not just good for that, but for other things.
- Essentially, at Least one of her friends she hangs with with will notice "Hey, Gary is looking really good these days..."
- Once you at that point, do not flirt. The vibe you send out? You can do better than her -- you friend-zoned Her.
- Be seen with a very feminine gal who's about as pretty as her at least. But not an airhead or seemingly one -- that's very key... unless the girl you want to de-friend zone is an airhead.

In essence, she isn't around you frequently -- so she notices the changes in your looks, as others will at least make a mention or two over time when you do run into her. Her also seeing you with pretty gals who seemingly aren't ditzes -- all while you're charming & cordial with her but not flirty, treating her the same way as you do her ugly friend -- if she's single -- yes, she may end up wanting you if you're more or less in her league.
 activemelaney
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 65
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Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/16/2014 9:57:19 PM
^^^
No idea. What I do know is that some guys just never get it. They think some master plan or strategy (see above) is going to realign the stars and our hormones. Reminds me of all those cheesy books on 'How to get the girl of your dreams'. Just send off $9 plus postage.

Hint to guys. . We get a crush on a fellow just like men probably do on a woman. A man can stand on a unicycle and juggle and its not going to add to any chemistry. Enjoy being a good friend or move on. If you do things to win us over, all you will get out of it is a pat on the head. If you have some dignity and accept that you have a good friend, then perhaps a woman can help introduce you to female friends. I've always been pleased to play matchmaker if a male friend is a nice person.
 Nj2ut
Joined: 11/5/2012
Msg: 66
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/16/2014 11:10:41 PM
^^^ that's all well and good IF she is legitimately interested in being friends with the guy. What a many guys find is that " let's just be friends" isn't a real offer of friendship or many women don't follow through on the friendship end of it.

In the real world most guys don't hear " there's no chemistry between us, let's just be friends, and let me set you up with my friend Carla...she teaches Zumba ".
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 67
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/17/2014 12:51:29 AM

What a many guys find is that " let's just be friends" isn't a real offer of friendship or many women don't follow through on the friendship end of it.

Yep. Mainly Friend Zone = 100% Platonic Only... it's the Zone in which one would, if they so wanted, to be just friends in actuality. Declaring "Let's just be friends" is different -- you're telling them you'd like to start a friendship if none was established yet. But yeah, guys shouldn't take that literally -- she's just trying to be nice. If a guy says that and he's not out of your league and he's not getting involved with or chasing another girl it Could also mean "... but if we get drunk, I wouldn't rule out hooking up though."

Same with "Friends First" when meeting a stranger from online or in RL. Friends is some sort of on-going relationship -- you actually don't know yet if you really want to follow through on even formulating an actual friendship. You're not friends on a 1st meetup. And unless you're allowed to hit on her friend or a waitress in front of her without any angst or disappointment -- you're not "just friends" (platonic).
 PlentyofThis123
Joined: 11/23/2013
Msg: 68
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/17/2014 2:20:48 AM
Yep. Mainly Friend Zone = 100% Platonic Only... it's the Zone in which one would, if they so wanted, to be just friends in actuality. Declaring "Let's just be friends" is different -- you're telling them you'd like to start a friendship if none was established yet. But yeah, guys shouldn't take that literally -- she's just trying to be nice. If a guy says that and he's not out of your league and he's not getting involved with or chasing another girl it Could also mean "... but if we get drunk, I wouldn't rule out hooking up though."



But most times if a woman says she wants to be just friends, it means that she won't literally be friends with you, don't expect to be spending any time with her whatsoever, don't expect her to invite you to any Christmas parties, she may post an occasional Facebook comment on a picture you upload, but that's about it. lol.

Typically, when they do this, they really don't want you in their life or at least keep it at bare minimum.


If you do things to win us over, all you will get out of it is a pat on the head. If you have some dignity and accept that you have a good friend, then perhaps a woman can help introduce you to female friends. I've always been pleased to play matchmaker if a male friend is a nice person.


Right, I had someone tell me "Well, if you wind up being friends with her, she can introduce you to her other single friends".

Or establish somehow get you into her social circle. Though I've known this to happen, it's rather rare.
 activemelaney
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 69
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Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/17/2014 10:05:49 AM
^^^^. You are getting dating advice from a comedian? Adds meaning to 'too funny'.

Re what we tell a man. I never answer a knock at the door that I'm not expecting. Some of us women are ALWAYS aware of our safety. It's always on our mind whether going into a public washroom, when getting into the car, or, yes, rejecting a male's advances. I don't think most males past the age of 10 think too much about looking in the closet or under the bed. The 'let's be friends' and variations on it are a social skill some of have learned over the years to diffuse awkward situations that might otherwise escalate. Most men are fine but there is the quirky passive aggressive fellow that ruins it for other guys. Most guys get angry when rejected but they are mature and know how to deal with the anger.

Anyways, we don't always want to be friends even when we say it. We don't usually say it to lead a guy on but to tap dance out of an awkward situation. I've known what seems the nicest guy ever to start professing his love for me after I've politely declined his advance and then suddenly switch to monster mode.
 DiezelPhoenix
Joined: 5/15/2013
Msg: 70
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/17/2014 10:35:04 AM

You are getting dating advice from a comedian? Adds meaning to 'too funny'.


What's funny is I just read another thread where women are taking Steve Harvey's advice about sex to heart.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 71
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/17/2014 10:56:43 AM
But most times if a woman says she wants to be just friends, it means that she won't literally be friends with you, don't expect to be spending any time with her whatsoever,

And if you weren't friends with her before -- the LJBF line -- don't chase to be friends. Or even Want to be. I mean, a guy has to be honest with himself, right? Why would you want really-cute-Barbara to be friends with you? Consolation prize underneath it all. Never aim for that.

Right, I had someone tell me "Well, if you wind up being friends with her, she can introduce you to her other single friends".

If you see that potentiality and she Does want to be friends by swinging you into her social group of her cute gal-pals, sure. You essentially can have her be an Acquaintance, if the situation happens to be suitable for that. She'll notice you're not wanting to be around her, but if you end up bumping into each other at a bar or whatever -- sure, you briefly chit-chat, shake hands with her cute friends -- and any real attention would be directed at her friends and her friends' friends, not her much.

Anyways, we don't always want to be friends even when we say it.

I think the laughter at the LJBF line is that a gal Usually doesn't want to be actual friends. Yes, guys do need to understand that Even If she didn't say that, he still shouldn't try to befriend her... and even if she does want to befriend him upon saying it, he should internally reject that notion and just be Acquaintances at most.

I've known what seems the nicest guy ever to start professing his love for me after I've politely declined his advance and then suddenly switch to monster mode.

I understand caution and err'ing on the side of it, definitely. But as a side note, if that tends to be a trend for you with nice guys -- most likely you're doing something bad leading up to that (like leading them on).

Not to say that's an excuse for a guy to get into "monster-mode"... but just like a guy shouldn't try and befriend a gal as a consolation prize Even If she said it and meant it... a gal shouldn't flirt with a guy she's not interested in, nor give too much attention to a guy she's not interested in. Many times good people (yes, sometimes guys) don't understand they're leading someone on when they are. Seeing a pattern of the opposite sex "friends" get really pissy when they're into ya is a litmus test for that.
 activemelaney
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 72
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Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/17/2014 2:53:22 PM
^^^^....

That's not acceptable in 2013. No man has any 'reason ' any time to act in a threatening way to a woman. There is no misunderstanding of the word 'no' that any man with social skills uses as an excuse to not be civil. It's akin to excusing away an sexual assault because the guy claims he couldn't help himself because a woman enticed him in some way.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 73
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/17/2014 3:20:34 PM

That's not acceptable in 2013. No man has any 'reason ' any time to act in a threatening way to a woman

There is nothing in my post remotely coming close to threatening. Quite the Opposite. It's laying off and Not Caring, actually. It's giving out the vibe of "No" to a woman, instead of "Please like me". :)
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 74
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Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/18/2014 8:00:04 AM
Check this out all you people that cant be upfront in what you want....

http://jezebel.com/dudes-stop-putting-women-in-the-girlfriendzone-1508177054
 Nj2ut
Joined: 11/5/2012
Msg: 75
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/18/2014 8:13:40 AM
[The 'let's be friends' and variations on it are a social skill some of have learned over the years to diffuse awkward situations that might otherwise escalate. ]

Then why would you go out with a guy if you think he's going to react badly So he's good enough to pay for the date but not good enough to get the truth?
 Nj2ut
Joined: 11/5/2012
Msg: 76
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/18/2014 9:27:52 AM
Check this out all you people that cant be upfront in what you want....

http://jezebel.com/dudes-stop-putting-women-in-the-girlfriendzone-1508177054


The problem with that article is that it's trying to attack three concepts of he "friend zone " at the same time.

1. When a woman tells a guy that she doesn't have a pre existing friendship with that she just wants to be friends after a date or few dates.
2. A woman who has been friends with a guy for a certain period of time and rejects his offer to date or have a romantic relationship.
3. A woman who has been friends with a guy for a certain period of time and rejects his offer to have a sexual relationship.

The article brought up why do men stop associating with a woman after she rejects him. My follow up question to that would be...what woman is going to want to date a guy who has a harem of other women who romantically rejected him as "friends"?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 77
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/18/2014 10:26:24 AM
http://jezebel.com/dudes-stop-putting-women-in-the-girlfriendzone-1508177054

Interesting read...

Many an internet whine has been wailed over women who, for some ungodly reason, do not reward the men who are nice to them with sex.

I wouldn't say that. Not whining at women for not putting out by being nice, but whining at the inaccurate adage that many still cling to that you can truly garner a woman's Interest by being Nice. Guys aren't whining about not getting sex with girls they've been Friend-Zoned by. The sexual frustration will be a push when he can't over some time of course. But it's about Actual Interest not obtained -- that's supposed to be obtained by what many women's "tips" are -- while other guys without a nice shiny sword of "Niceness" as a primary weapon, do.

It's an incredibly self centered and self-pitying way to externalize one's own mistakes or shortcomings, to blame the complex mystery of fickle human attraction on a woman's agency, and makes about as much emotional sense as showing up to pick up your dry cleaning at 3 am and becoming so enraged that they're not open that you throw a brick through the window.

I agree that a guy who's chasing a girl and settles to be in her "Friend Zone", and thus, be an orbiter, filled with both jealousy toward other guys entering into her non-platonic zone, and her over time, for not becoming interested -- is self-centered and pretty Pathetic. I have little sympathy for such guys. The only room for that is when a gal puts one foot in the friend-zone and one foot in the non-platonic zone and does the hokey-pokey between the two. Then that's the only time to have blame toward the gal and more understanding for the guy to be caught up in (for not too long a time though).

But I also don't have respect for women who want to keep an "orbiter" guy-friend, who was friend-zoned because he liked her and she didn't like him -- they're both wack if she's going to want to keep him around for that.

girlfriendzoning .... it's when guys "only see a girl as a potential girlfriend and not as a friend (or a human, really, in my opinion)." ...how some men completely lose interest in women as people once it's clear she's not interested in them sexually

Basically, bitterness for rejection. And yes, when anybody, girl or guy, is all about someone -- no, they're not wanting to be merely friends if they never were before. Then you'll have that jealous "orbiter" guy-friend -- who wants that? Oh - women who like attention. :)

It's just as self-centered for a guy to Want to be friend-zoned and be an "orbiter", as it is a gal to pine & whine about a guy not wanting to be an "orbiter" guy-friend. Again, both are idiots. BUT, I do understand -- if a guy gets too pissed off outright when the girl isn't into him -- yeah, that's dumb & wrong.

But to be mad that he doesn't want to hang around her and become her friend? Ummm, that's just as bad pining & whining as guys b!tching about girls not liking them.

It's something done by a man who was never interested in anything but a sexual relationship in the first place, and tried to use faux friendship as a way to achieve sexual ends.

Actually, it's not to achieve merely sexual ends. Usually when guys get really upset -- it's more than finding the gal merely attraction (for purely sexual needs). There's plenty of them to watch roaming around. It's when he has Real feelings.

The author of the article could have done a Way better job if her goal was to bark at idiot guys who whine about being in the friend-zone. And as a side note, the "girlfriendzone" is for guys who more or less want a girlfriend and nothing less -- not a hookup and nothing more -- she got that totally wrong there.
 activemelaney
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 78
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Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/18/2014 2:00:16 PM
^^^Njut

Why go out with him? This is a decision after you go out and see what he is like. Have you never had a date and then decided that it was not the woman you would want to marry? I personally would never assume that a man is Mr Wonderful just from a profile or witty messages...I save the judgement for after we meet in real life.
 PlentyofThis123
Joined: 11/23/2013
Msg: 79
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/22/2014 4:05:10 AM
Funny thing, I had recently someone post somewhere "In a TRUE relationship, your partner is also your best friend".

I think this is where that "blur" between the friend zone and a relationship lies. Men, who are sometimes put into the FZ, have this quote in their head". So they kind of hang around in hopes she'll come around. Sometimes he'll attempt to talk her into this by quoting such a phrase. "Well, you may think of me as a friend, but...usually the best relationships starts off as friends".
 rod1919us
Joined: 11/3/2011
Msg: 80
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Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/23/2014 12:27:45 PM
YES of course the "friend zone" is real. The friend zone with women is when a woman decides she doesn't want to be with a guy, have sex with a guy, or anything of that nature, but she feels you're an asset to keep around. Often the guy may hope by being her friend will result to boyfriend status. When in reality it's usually never the case. I've seen too many dudes play nice and try to be friends with a female they wanted to be in relationships with, only to have their pride hurt when they find out she gave up the goods to a guy who never even bought her a soda.

But one thing women fail to understand is that men have a friend zone too. Except ours usually come with benefits. Hence FWB. When women are in the FWB zone they usually stay there. Not many guys I know wife a broad they've had casual sex with. To us, FWB is just that...FWB and nothing more.

So in essence today's society is in one big friend zone. Girls put the "nice guys", the "boring guy", the "lame guy", etc in friend zones chasing dudes who have them in the FWB zone. Fear is one of the main reasons why many guys don't commit to relationships anymore. Funny how this all works out. lol
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 81
Is the friendzone even real...
Posted: 2/23/2014 1:39:02 PM
But one thing women fail to understand is that men have a friend zone too. Except ours usually come with benefits. Hence FWB.

True, but that's not a real friend-zone. The friend-zone is an emotional/feelings state of 100% platonic. Most guys see most women who aren't fugly, related, or going out with a buddy of theirs -- as only somewhat platonic but under the right circumstances for him, would pork. It's less likely, as you point out, that a guy's going to put a gal in an Actual friend-zone.

www.laddertheory.com -- I think it's a bit too black & white and overreaching, but for the most part, I believe it's more or less correct, and I understand/believe the concept of it.

Women have TWO "ladders". A friend ladder and a dating ladder. The higher up on the friend ladder, the closer of a mere friend you are. Anyone on her friend ladder is the same as her gal-pal Barb -- she's not sexually interested. Some guys will THINK he's on her dating ladder because she wants to hang out. Why? Because if HE wanted to hang out with a gal, he'd have at least SOME attraction to her.

Guys have ONE ladder, for all women, pretty much. The one thing I disagree with is that some guys (me included) DO have a friend-ladder. It's just isolated to relatives, significant others of buddies, and the (not merely not-attractive, but) fuglies. The site's overreaching, but I think it's to drill in the basic concept that so many refuse to accept.
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