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 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 76
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Are there any gentlemen out there?Page 4 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
All of the flood of messages generalizing about "all men" or "all women" are bunk. Humans are diverse and varied. You can see that in every thread of responses to an "all men" or "all women" lament.

I've certainly never propositioned anyone for sex on a first date, or any time when things weren't already comfortable with snuggling and kissing at least. On the other hand, I've been contacted by Fishies who seemed incapable of talking about anything else - usually people with no real photos on their profiles (just cartoons or the like and the excuse that they had to put one up to message me) who were out to sell me some dubious "services."

As far as the insurance thing - as others have noted, if you're married and the premium's paid, you're insured. You're MARRIED. Love has nothing to do with the legal consequences of legal partnership. You don't need love to have a marriage any more than you need a marriage to have love.

I have certainly known quite a few people - especially Americans, who often have serious health insurance issues - who have stayed married for health insurance, vehicle insurance, mortgage, school access and other benefit issues. Some because their work and social lives demanded that they have a presentable Spouse Doll. One for the free air travel, too. People in the process of breaking up are often financially stressed or unemployed (both of those are big CAUSES of breakups, too!) and unable to assume full funding of a separate life.

Judging people by how other people act is never a useful plan. Pay attention to THEM - what they say, what they do and what they have done.
ED BEAR
 Princess12524
Joined: 12/23/2013
Msg: 77
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 8:04:42 AM

Any man who understands that health insurance is important and that is the only reason why she is married, can cope with the situation. After all, unless said person is planning to propose, I don't think the whole "married" status should matter. People you plan to be with should bring something to your life, not take something you need, away. She has a very valid reason to want to hold on to the insurance. The only person who should have a say in the matter (of it being fraud), is the husband. If the husband is cool with it and doesn't see a need to go through divorce (and possibly lose way more), be it.

Bazinga!
And frankly my healthcare is no one else's business & if I ever dated a man THAT stupid, it would be over lickedy split!
 EricTheBrave
Joined: 12/31/2013
Msg: 78
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 8:23:17 AM

I understand some folk down there do marry just to have medical coverage but still, I would not be telling anyone and taking the chance the insurer may look at the arrangement as some kind of infraction on the conditions of their contract.


There is NO RISK. The contract addresses only one matter regarding marital status -- are you married. Circumstances, surrounding facts, motivations ... all irrelevant. You pay the premium, you remain married, the contract provides for spousal coverage ... you're covered.

You can marry a stranger off the street for the sole purpose of obtaining health insurance coverage, and it jdoesn't matter. This is the reality of the health insurance contract world in the U.S., and will remain that way until policies are written differently.
 Bebedeleau
Joined: 2/25/2013
Msg: 79
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Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 10:31:27 AM
I lived with someone who worked at GM for 7 years. He put me on his healthcare. He just brought home a piece of paper stating we shared a house, a bank account, etc. and I signed it.

Three years after separating, having my own healthcare, I had a baby (with another person). When I got the bills in the mail, his insurance covered what mine didn't for the delivery and hospital stay. I mentioned it to him (not that he cared) and he called them because I wanted to make sure that wasn't fraud and I'd have to pay it back sometime. Nope ... the papers we signed were a common law marriage and for me to be taken off of his insurance I would have to sign papers releasing that.

I would think married is married until you are divorced as far as health care. Wouldn't you have to show divorce papers to drop someone?

BTW, no, I never the heath care after we separated, but if I hadn't gotten pregnant, he agreed and we would have used it for fertility testing. Even though we were no longer together, he was willing to go through the testing to see if the reason 'we' never got pregnant was him or I or chance

It's disheartening to hear that people would drop someone out of spite if it didn't cost them anything (a family plan).
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 80
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 10:37:08 AM

I would think married is married until you are divorced as far as health care. Wouldn't you have to show divorce papers to drop someone?


Yes and no. If you show you are no longer married, you no longer are under the obligation to carry such in your insurance. If your spouse's workplace has option for insurance, the spouse can show proof that she/he is covered at the other workplace and does not need additional coverage.
 Princess12524
Joined: 12/23/2013
Msg: 81
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 11:18:51 AM

I would think married is married until you are divorced as far as health care. Wouldn't you have to show divorce papers to drop someone?

Yes and no. If you show you are no longer married, you no longer are under the obligation to carry such in your insurance. If your spouse's workplace has option for insurance, the spouse can show proof that she/he is covered at the other workplace and does not need additional coverage.


I did this for a living...
as long as you are NOT LEGALLY SEPERATED, you should be covered if you were covered during marriage. And common law marriages are also recognized. Some divorce decrees state that the spouse is to continue to provide coverage & in that case, the guarantor would be obligated to pay extra to keep the divorced spouse covered.

And some people have a primary, secondary & even a tertiary policy, if you are married & have your own insurance that would be primary & your spouse would be the 2ndary...
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 82
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 12:02:47 PM
^^^

Something got lost in translation here...you and I are saying/meaning the same thing, except I didn't say anything about it being part of a divorce.

I'm not saying you cannot have primary AND secondary insurance. What I'm saying..............

Here's an example:
Let's say I'm married and my husband's insurance is less beneficial to my needs, than my own insurance. I can provide proof that I am covered under my employment (therefore have coverage), and do not need to be carried under his. After all, no one is obligated to carry the spouse (when the spouse has their own coverage). Yeah you can have both, but in the case that the insurance is sufficient for one or the other, there is nothing obligating you to an additional deductible where it is unnecessary.

Remember that each state has it's own governing state regulated policies about insurance. It is not a Federal thing, it's not universal, so what you're saying and what I'm saying is equality valid.

About divorces, I don't really know, I've never heard of someone being entitled to health coverage after a divorce is granted. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I have not heard of such or know of such.
 Princess12524
Joined: 12/23/2013
Msg: 83
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 12:35:29 PM

Something got lost in translation here...you and I are saying/meaning the same thing, except I didn't say anything about it being part of a divorce.

I'm not saying you cannot have primary AND secondary insurance. What I'm saying..............

Here's an example:
Let's say I'm married and my husband's insurance is less beneficial to my needs, than my own insurance. I can provide proof that I am covered under my employment (therefore have coverage), and do not need to be carried under his. After all, no one is obligated to carry the spouse (when the spouse has their own coverage). Yeah you can have both, but in the case that the insurance is sufficient for one or the other, there is nothing obligating you to an additional deductible where it is unnecessary.

Remember that each state has it's own governing state regulated policies about insurance. It is not a Federal thing, it's not universal, so what you're saying and what I'm saying is equality valid.

About divorces, I don't really know, I've never heard of someone being entitled to health coverage after a divorce is granted. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I have not heard of such or know of such.

Correct. I like to be clear when posting about ins. etc as so many people have so many misconceptions- I've seen so many scenarios over the years...
A person can be SEPERATED but if not LEGALLY seperated, the ins. company cannot deny claims, etc. I've known people who got divorced but the judge put in their decree that the employed spouse who had carried the insurance during the marriage must continue- so that person had to pay to add the divorced spouse onto the policy. ( I had a friend w/ that situation- I had told her to stay seperated not divorced)

Since I am covered under my estranged spouse's policy, they kept checking to see if I had my own coverage so that they would just process any of my claims as a secondary.

Depending on the policy some secondary's were not really of much use, but some 2ndary's picked up 100% of copays & deductables. Plus a disabled or retired spouse may have medicare, now throwing a tertiary into the loop...
 beth414
Joined: 1/26/2014
Msg: 84
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 1:44:41 PM
Forumfiona
I am not committing fraud that is ridiculous! We are married legally and we got married because we were in love. Things turned sour and the divorce is eminent but neither has filed yet. There is no way I intend to stay married to him! I am thinking that you have not read all of my posts because I have clearly stated my situation.
 usmale6
Joined: 9/14/2013
Msg: 85
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 2:34:28 PM
Why do I get the feeling that any minute now, somebody is going to try to sell me an insurance policy?!
 SunshineAngel99
Joined: 10/13/2010
Msg: 86
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Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 2:51:19 PM
If you are a woman over the age of 30, have kids and/or separated/divorced you will have a difficult time dating men that you deem acceptable. With that said, you are closer to 50 where most men and women tend to be on equal footing by then as they have established themselves by then. However, it seems that you are not ready to date so take a break.
 sigungq
Joined: 1/4/2013
Msg: 87
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Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/6/2014 4:59:25 PM
OP, Yes, there are gentlemen here. No, you are not crazy. Unfortunately, women never bother to answer messages sent by gentlemen. It's like a time paradox.
 Bebedeleau
Joined: 2/25/2013
Msg: 88
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Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/7/2014 6:19:56 AM

One way women can overcome this is to be more proactive with their picking. Instead of waiting for men to approach or message, take a chance at asking the guys out. ....... If you like someone or think they are interesting, take the chance. The problem is that the non-assertive guy is a lot like the average women, afraid of rejection!


Yep, that's exactly what I did and it might be a solution to your problem OP

After getting "slammed" by emails resulting in conversations that were often covertly or outright sexual, some rudeness when I declined, and too many 'obligated politeness' conversation (because I felt it was rude not to respond) I deleted my first profile, took a break, and when I made a new profile it was private and remained that way. I realized that my screen name at the time, which you couldn't change back then, was 'taken the wrong way' by many.

With a private profile you can browse and make contact with whomever you want and it weeds out the more aggressive men (not always aggressive in a bad way, but you know what I mean). It also weeds out the people browsing for sexual chat and such (which was an issue back when they had messenger, which I wish would be put back in, tho).

You can choose to let it be seen if you viewed someone's profile or not even if you are private.

In that way, you only contact who you are interested in getting to know. Of course, you take away the ability for others to do the same.
 usmale6
Joined: 9/14/2013
Msg: 89
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/7/2014 9:31:44 AM
^^^^^^^^^ some women will do that, and online dating sites are making this more popular because the rejection on women who pursue is much softer - people who aren't interested don't write you back and you tend to forget about them.

However, men are still expected to be the pursuer, particularly offline.
 LoneScottishBoy
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 90
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Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/7/2014 10:05:26 AM
OP, yes there are gentlemen out there.
I prefer not to use that term as it sounds like your passive.

I consider good men to be a rare thing and all of the woman I have had that discussion with agree. The problem is that the term gets thrown around a lot. I have met men who call themselves gentlemen and they were just posers once you got a few drinks in them. A lot of them are.

Each man has to find his own mixture of agressive pursuit and gentle persuasion.
If they take the time to do that and use respect, they would probably find they dont need the moniker of gentleman...
...just man.
 Midwest_Southwest2
Joined: 11/1/2013
Msg: 91
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/7/2014 10:23:28 AM
I agree with Scottish here, except on one point: “Each man has to find his own mixture of agressive pursuit and gentle persuasion.” Another alternative is for people, men and women, to enjoy and discover who a person is rather than pursue or persuade. Agenda can cloud judgment, for men and women.
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 92
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/7/2014 11:54:37 AM
'Gentlemen' want sex too,they just don't ram it in your face to get it. :)
 TOaks91360
Joined: 11/22/2013
Msg: 93
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/8/2014 10:02:18 AM
I can handle being a gentleman for 3 dates max:)
 TOaks91360
Joined: 11/22/2013
Msg: 94
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/8/2014 10:40:55 AM
Who would have thought that nice people have libidos too?
 Vertical-Man
Joined: 11/9/2013
Msg: 95
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/8/2014 1:40:51 PM
Hi Beth,

No you are not crazy. As I see it, the real problem is that there is a serious lack of men and women whose level of emotional and moral intelligence is above the norm. Most men fail miserably in realizing just how far removed they are from knowing what it means to evolve as a man and a human being. It seems you witness this firsthand yet you were not sure how to address it. But such men need to be called out when they behave this way. They need to realize that it gives ALL men a bad name. The problems you shared with us is all too familiar. It is as if a script was given to us, respectively, and we keep playing it over and over again -mindlessly- as if in a trance. The man you encountered is an ignorant one and the sad part is there is no one telling him just how confused and alienated he is from himself -hence others . Your better self, the one that yearns for a legitimate relationship said, "I will have none of this".
Your concern reminds me of a book I'm reading by Dr. Ruti who is creating quite a stir regarding the way self help books on love actually undermine women's understanding of themselves as women. Says she

The French philosopher Simone de Beauvoir famously states that “one is not born a woman, but becomes one.” What she means is that none of us enters the world with an instinctive understanding of what being a woman means. We gather this understanding gradually, through being immersed in a cultural environment that holds particular views about men and women. We begin to learn how to correctly “perform” our gender well before we learn to speak. By the time we are adolescents, the codes of appropriate femininity are so deeply ingrained, so automatic, that we consider them as innate. We don’t recognize them as cultural constructs, but rather take them to be an accurate reflection of our “nature”; they are simply who we “are.”

While Dr. Ruti is addressing women, men too are culturally conditioned to behave in certain ways. It's quite obvious the man you referred to has been conditioned below the norm but even the norm is now been put into question.
There are men, -few though they may be- who are aware of all the above because they feel as you do. The problem is finding men and women who want out of this madness.

On a funny note, and when Dr. Ruti talks about the way in which we perform our gender programming
Jenna Marbles has captured it in one of her videos called "Things Girls Lie About" in which she discloses a laundry list of things women say that obviously do more harm than good. It's not that she's criticizing women, rather, she's deconstructing the deeply engrained cultural constructs that Dr. Ruti pointed out.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 96
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/8/2014 3:00:29 PM
/\/\/\/\/\/\ Referencing both Simone de Beauvoir AND Jenna Marbles in the same post. Well played. It shows the depth and variety of information just out there at our fingertips. It's scary sometimes how people find things to support their point.
 Vertical-Man
Joined: 11/9/2013
Msg: 97
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/8/2014 3:42:30 PM
Hi Sweet Danimal,

You mentioned,

"It's scary sometimes how people find things to support their point"

I'm not sure what you meant by it. But as far as scary, we all should be considering the way things are between men and women. Had I known amorous love was going to be so complicating and misguided, I would have made far greater efforts in understanding gender issues when I was much younger. Dr Ruti is among the few who finally revealed quite clearly the way in which we are deeply entrenched psychologically to think and feel in ways that alienate men and women far more than we realize. The issues is not men vs women- it never was. It's the culture we live in. I can now see why many people go to meditation retreats to get away from our cultural surroundings that keep us in bondage. It's heartbreaking to see that we all want to love and be loved in return yet we are confused as ever. Just reading the profiles from men and women sadly and clearly demonstrates that the level of maturity needed in a healthy relationship does not make its presence felt in what they say. Oh, I've people tell me I'm being too serious about it but I believe we are not being serious enough and THAT is scary! lol..
Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/8/2014 4:39:10 PM

Gentlemen' want sex too,they just don't ram it in your face to get it.

....hearty smooth rolling chuckling...nose snorting snickering...oh holy hell...

Hey now, any face ramming on my part, I promise you, is accompanied by the most gentlemanly treatment. Until she doesn't want it to be so gentlemanly anymore...
 Bebedeleau
Joined: 2/25/2013
Msg: 99
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Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/8/2014 6:20:14 PM

It's heartbreaking to see that we all want to love and be loved in return yet we are confused as ever.


That reminds me of a line in a song I've listened that is partly about need/disconnection. At the end of the song, he says:

She sends a boat out on the sea with a little note from me and says, "Why are all the girls so hungry, and why are all the boys so lonely? Why can't anybody see me"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWmsjWnQ6VI
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 100
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Are there any gentlemen out there?
Posted: 2/9/2014 3:50:48 AM
Folks, there are PLENTY of married couples who don't cohabit, and their marriages are not invalidated. People off at school, taking foreign jobs, in the military, up in space, or in long-term care. No reason to challenge their marriage, even if the only reason for separate rooms is snoring.

Now, the REAL injustice is the common-law compulsion - it's illegal to NOT be married and enjoy cohabitation, of course, because very woman "deserves" to be a wife.

Poppycock.
ED BEAR
(Not attacking those who WANT a common-law relationship, guys. I'm all about choice and not hurting other humans.)

(I'm a humanist - so sue me.)
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