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Joined: 5/24/2009
Msg: 26
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Worst Valentine's Day everPage 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
I don't understand your boundaries.

You go out with a guy who's over two hours late, because he begs you to? He violates your personal space, has boorish manners, manipulates you, and you don't leave?

And then you engage in a texting argument with him, because?

You were complicit in this entire mess. I would ask myself why.
Joined: 3/25/2013
Msg: 27
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 7:58:53 AM

+1 I agree. - and for someone who works as a therapist in the Human Services field of all places.....

and needless to say, my eyes were BLEEDING after reading that wall of text.
Joined: 9/16/2013
Msg: 28
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 8:50:08 AM
Well...Valentines Day or not...The whole date sounded agonizing to me.
He was way past the acceptable "late"....for me. No more than an hour would I have waited....done!
That's when you should have quit all far as I'm concerned.
I think, there may have been a whole lot of miscommunication happening....other than being late and trying to get a too tight of a hug.....It sounded like he was trying...balloons,teddybear....
You were already p.o'd.... so the rest was a disaster.
You're calling him a "player"...what??
He calling you a "gold digger"....again...what??
Move on....
Joined: 10/13/2013
Msg: 29
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 9:05:47 AM
I had a first date / meeting on Valentine Day before. It was the only mutual free day we had that week. I would do it again under similar circumstances. I don't postpone dates because of a holiday. Valentine's Day had nothing to do with the OP's date. Bad dates can happen at any time of the year.

If they are more that 15 minutes late, consider the date cancelled

While I wouldn't wait 2.5 hours for a date, I think this is being too rigid. Provided that the other person called to let you know that (s)he would be late. I had dates where myself or the other person was 20-30 minutes late because of traffic among other reasons.
Joined: 2/25/2013
Msg: 30
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Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 9:33:33 AM
I'm going to play devil's advocate here, because I think considering his age his actions were more inexperience/hopefulness and excitement, not that he's a "creeper'.

1). Lateness. That WAS extreme. So is the weather. I don't know what it was like outside where everyone else was, but coming home that day on the interstate, the time sign read 45+ minutes to move 14 miles. Cars off the road every few miles, every moving 2o mph. Because it was too bad to go out, we decided to go get a pizza (not wanting the delivery guy to have to drive in it) because he has a 4-wheel drive. A 20 minute trip took 1 1/2 hours. We fishtailed at least 5 times. We almost got hit head on by someone who thankfully regained control. A car in front of us did a complete 360 into a snow bank going under 20mph and we couldn't help get him unstuck. You are in NY. The weather was similar? He actually drove in that instead of cancelling?

2). He didn't plan his time well at all. Getting the haircut, picking up flowers and balloons the same day were probably not the best idea. See the intent and his excitement instead of being so disastrously late. Yes, it should have been cancelled, but there was already so much effort into it which I think you both realized. How do you explain being 'stood up' on Valentines day and how do you go home after you've told people about this "big date" and say she cancelled.

3) The fact that it was Valentine's Day made most of this problem I think. The fact that he was more ambitious (haha) than you created a problem even BEFORE you went on the day (the predate phone call you didn't want), and IMO, those problems (the mindset created for you and him feeling your tension) carried right into your date.

4) There's more, but it would take a long time.

5). Because you've mentioned it before, yes, men should get out of the car to help and open the door on a first date, if they want to appear gentlemanly, but remember that's an appearance/manners/learned. I wouldn't be using that as your first hard and fast judgment of a person. Some people just don't know, some people might think you would freak out if a stranger walked up to you unannounced if you didn't know who it is. Some people may not be sure that it's 'you' walking up to the car. Doesn't excuse bad manners, but, on a rare occasion it could be a different way of thinking or simply the fact that no one ever taught them that it was good manners. They would be clueless as to why you were upset.

5) After all that effort, no matter how bad it went, you blocked him without even a "thanks, but we didn't hit it off". Gotta say that wasn't cool hun. A complete disregard for his feelings and effort.

6) You intended on leaving his gifts in the car. Did you not consider how it would feel to him to have to take them home or to have to stop somewhere to throw them away before going home? Not cool either. A gracious thank you and toss them in the trash on your way home would be better.

This was bad ... both that he said it/thought/expected it, and that you didn't text back to correct what you expected and let it hang for a full 2 hours ...

Him: I'm saying today a day of amor and kissing. 6:10 PM
Him: Just forget it Hun. 6:10 PM
Him: Sorry I I offended you love. 6:10 PM
Me: How much longer? 8:12 PM

I suspect you posted this because you are wondering if it was really just meant to be a bad date (nothing you could have done) or if you contributed to it or handled it wrong. I think you handled it the best you could have with the exception of letting him know before the date you didn't want to be called "love" or have a "love' date and kissing, etc.

Joined: 2/25/2013
Msg: 31
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Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 10:12:54 AM
Oh, and I think you were amiss by not offering to pay your half, especially since you probably knew by then this was not someone you wanted to date. I would have INSISTED on paying my half knowing that.
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 32
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 10:25:42 AM

The the date 2 weeks ago, did not work our apparently, he never contacted me again. He invited me to his gym (at home), but that was about the only hint he dropped other than the conversation about our similarities. I wasn't about to push it.

Lateness is also a pet peeve of mine but he begged with such insistence, I didn't want to hurt his feelings. I already knew it wouldn't work out but to leave someone stranded when it seems they just lack the ability to keep it together, is not my style. There was snow on the ground, some lateness was expected bit not this kind of lateness. I thought that to the time, we would probably end up at a nearby fast food place, just to get the date happen, and drop me off home.

I don't agree with the snow climbing, no matter the whole feminist crap or the equality crap talk. If you care about someone, for some unknown reason, you want to meet me, seeing me possible get hurt (AND cancel the date) is not the way to go.

I agree, hugs are a bit much on a first date, and so is a kiss (in my perspective). Like, can we even talk about mutual interest before the touching is introduced?

So you aim for a kiss before dinner takes place, to measure interest? The date hadn't even taken place and you're already thinking of splitting the bill if they didn't allow you a kiss before dinner takes place?

You're right, I shouldn't replied to the text.

That's why I don't think I'm accepting a date on VD, it is more appropriate when already in a relation of when a couple dates have already taken place and relation is so what in sight.


I cannot carry weapons, I work in a venue where weapons are not allowed. If I were to forget to take it out of my bag, I'd be fired. I do carry a spray of alcohol (to clean my glasses), I can use that, lol. I'm also trained in MMA, kickboxing, and jujitsu.


I agree But I didn't want to completely disregard his concerns like I don't give a f*ck about other people's feelings as a whole. I didn't know it was gonna get absurd, I was hoping to end it amicably. I don't know anyone who ever messaged me after being blocked, except for this one. The block should have been enough to convey the date didn't go well.


I didn't know if was going to argue with me about that too, so I just took the stuff, he insisted. I didn't see a trash can near by, to dump it. I did not need a VD date.

Dude is not Hot, he is even from a race I don't date, this date is further confirmation to not even try to date outside of my race, the expectations are way different.


#1, the whole winter is not a holiday, lol, just a few days are.
#2 reason why I didn't understand why after such lateness, he chose to drive the distance instead of stay local.
#3 I get in people's car all the time, I'm not really scared about that.
#4 will do, as I've done in the past. No more flexibility regarding lateness and no pity for beggars neither.

Yes, recipe for disaster.


Other than not bearing gifts, this is probably how he operates on dates. Come with expectations of getting a relationship from the get go and wanting to get all touchy touchy even before a meal.

It is indeed a lesson, I should have dismissed it and stood my ground. Agreed.

Lol, I had snow boots on, if he would have come out the car, I would have noticed he lied to me about his height, would have claimed to feel bad, and gone home, lol.

I was not upset with him, it just didn't work out. Just because you don't end up liking someone, doesn't mean you have to be upset with them. I was not about to have another argument with him, I was already out of the car, I wasn't about to stand there and argue. He insisted that I take the stuff, and I did, I didn't want him to come out of the car and possibly follow me home forcing me to take the stuff just for him to go away. I didn't owe him an explanation about blocking him, I didn't think he'd question it. I thought we both had an awful time (him feeling rejected that I didn't welcome his advances, and me being weirded out he would even touch me and expect a favorable response).

Why do feel like I have explain to someone why we're not a match, prior to blocking them? Blocking is one of those "enough said" responses.


I so wanted to have a drink, but I wanted to be in my right mind if there was more BS to come. Next time, I'm packing a flask, I would have warm, drats! Lol


Yep, that's what bothered me, the implication that I have no heart, when it is simply something I consider inappropriate from the onset.

The meet/date was in a public place
Next time, I'm meeting him at the place, not be driven to it
Will cancel for lateness

I realize, I could have changed the course at any time, but chose the path of least resistance.
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 33
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 10:31:34 AM
Belle, Belle, Belle, Yikes!
We know, you know, what you shoulda', coulda', woulda', done differently, for ANY first date. ( Regardless of the holiday. ) Don't choose to participate in bad behavior.

Remember, be safe, be smart and move on! MEH, this was just a minor speed bump!

LOL If need be, buy more balloons and have at it girl! (or should I say cat lady) :) :) :) :)

BTW, must have been "something in the water."
I had a really bad meet date myself, LOL, MEH
Joined: 12/9/2012
Msg: 34
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 10:45:24 AM
well darn - I was hoping all the drama because he was hot.
I trust you aren't going to reply to any more of his text msgs?
Plus side, one day you'll look back on this and shake your head
Joined: 5/28/2006
Msg: 35
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Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 11:08:57 AM

You have my sympathy for your awful experience.

It appears that your date had unrealistic expectations and clearly interpreted your response to his hug as misplaced, inappropriate rejection, effecting his psyche on a very deep level.
The depth of the experienced rejection was indicative of the intensity of his deep emotional needs.
His self loathing (low self esteem) is glaringly evident.
In an attempt to self preserve, he projected his inadequacies (ego defence, egocentric) onto you to the extent of being borderline abusive for the duration; horrible.

Don't take it personally, this is how he deals with perceived rejection and it is no reflection on you, whatsoever.
As far as I'm concerned, he owed you that meal for making you wait a ridiculous 2.5 hours!

It is most appropriate to cease all contact with this emotionally needy, dysfunctional individual.
This date was doomed from the start.
Joined: 10/13/2013
Msg: 36
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 11:49:27 AM

Dude is not Hot, he is even from a race I don't date, this date is further confirmation to not even try to date outside of my race, the expectations are way different.

I had dates with women that were from groups that I usually wasn't interested in. Besides some exceptions. My expectation level didn't change because of that or because the date was on a holiday.

Why do feel like I have explain to someone why we're not a match, prior to blocking them? Blocking is one of those "enough said" responses.

IMO blocking should only be used when someone is unable to take no for an answer or sends you a rude email. Not as a preemptive strike simply you weren't interested in him/her. If a person gets blocked a certain amount of times, his/her profile can be deleted from POF.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 37
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Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 12:06:32 PM

Dude is not Hot, he is even from a race I don't date, this date is further confirmation to not even try to date outside of my race, the expectations are way different.

This is just a lack of experience and worldliness. Race has nothing to do with personality as a default - only sheltered and clueless people think that. Culture does, to a degree, but cultures throughout the world cross over in every aspect (and those cultures include all races).

As for the (long) date story, reading it all together, it's obviously a case of subconsciously, or even consciously going into a bad situation just for the drama of it due to craving the attention that comes from the drama.
Joined: 6/23/2013
Msg: 38
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 12:07:40 PM

he is even from a race I don't date, this date is further confirmation to not even try to date outside of my race, the expectations are way different.

Belle, when I saw this comment, my reaction was "huh?"
To each his/her own regarding dating outside/inside of race, but I am curious, about "expectations are way different" comment as it pertains to race. Your expectations? His expectations? Because his race was different, there was different expectations for the date? Just curious :)
Joined: 10/9/2013
Msg: 39
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 12:29:19 PM
Yikes, this date sounds awful. But at least you'll probably avoid Valentine's Day first dates in the future and (hopefully) he learns not to be over 2 hours late and expect his date to be happy.
Joined: 12/23/2013
Msg: 40
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 12:52:23 PM

#1, the whole winter is not a holiday, lol, just a few days are.
#2 reason why I didn't understand why after such lateness, he chose to drive the distance instead of stay local.
#3 I get in people's car all the time, I'm not really scared about that.
#4 will do, as I've done in the past. No more flexibility regarding lateness and no pity for beggars neither

Belle- I have a son ur age & I too am a NYC gal, born in St. Vincent's Hospital, raised in the Uki part of the Lower east side, etc.

I am gonna talk to you like u r my own daughter...

Yes the whole winter is not a Holiday- BUT the Holiday season starts around Halloween? Thanksgiving (Google Halloweenie please) & ends after Valentines Day.

You need to have a window of time that you deem comfortable w/ for lateness- I recommend 10-30 minutes unless extreme duress like blizzardy weather.

YOU ARE NOT SCARED ABOUT GETTING INTO THE CAR W/ A STRANGER???!!!Yes I am shouting...don't u watch the ID channel? somebody please cyber slap Belle about this one...
Joined: 1/30/2014
Msg: 41
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 1:45:11 PM
Belle, I read your entire post and wondered several times if this was some kind of joke. Or, some sort of test to see who could recognize the most "red flags" in each paragraph.

Please bear in mind that I've read hundreds of your posts here in the forums and simply didn't recognize you as being the same woman who was describing this boundary busting/red flag flying marathon. The words I've read from you in the past simply don't match up to the woman you are describing in your post.

That being said, we all make the mistake of not being true to ourselves in order to "people please"........usually with poor results. Live and learn. This azz-hat serves as a reminder to never lower your boundaries or standards for anyone!!

Personally, more than an hour late (unless it's an emergency of course) means no date!!!

And from one Bell to another, Be good to yourself sweet deserve it!!
Joined: 5/25/2011
Msg: 42
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 2:21:16 PM
Wowsers, that's quite the date there Belle, sad that you had such a terrible time. It reaffirms how glad I am to not be dating, seriously. I also couldn't have possibly started the date at the time you did, I'd be half asleep by then!

Better luck next time lady.
Joined: 8/28/2013
Msg: 43
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 2:32:28 PM
Wow that's quite the story. I read the whole thing because it was pretty entertaining.
The guy right of the bat sounded a bit awkward in general. First of all I'm shocked that you waited for him as long as you did. That also, like others here, gave me the impression that he might have had a date earlier in the day and if he did im positive that didn't go well for him either.

The fact that he was a mute at dinner , but then went in for a kiss and a tight hug shows that he wasn't very comfortable with himself and didn't know how t relax and get to know you, but at the same time he tried forcing some kind of chemistry or connection hoping his hail mary move might save the night.

Agreeing to have the date on the Friday was a bad call. Should have waited for the following evening so that there was no pressure in that regard.

The gifts he bought you were in my opinion inappropriate. That's too much for a first date. Seems like he was trying too hard.

Lastly, I'm amazed that you texted so much with him after the date. You should have just blocked or ignored his messages because no good comes from that kind of exchange, though it did show a bit more insight into his mindset.

He seems like the kind that has a history of overdoing things and faces rejection a lot.

Good story though! I enjoyed it.
Joined: 6/27/2013
Msg: 44
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 2:38:07 PM
Are you the same one who posted in Over 30 who let some poor chap waste over $100 on you for a first date, then you blocked him as soon as you got home because you thought he used a Groupon and gave you over $150 value but spent less out of his own pocket?

POF should put back the link to a poster's forum history in profiles, making it faster to decide whether to message someone, whether or not to answer.
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 45
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 3:33:32 PM
Belle, belle, belle,

First of all, thank you for the entertainment value of your story. If anything, you sacrificed yourself to provide your Forummite junkies with another piece of life to slice and rip apart. Hehehe.

I do have to say that you're a much nicer human being that I am. Let me show you what I would have considered HUGE red flags.

Him: Let me get your address ill be there at 7:30pm 5:57 PM
Him: You home or still at work 5:57 PM
Me: Pick me up at XXX street and XXX avenue 5:57 PM
Me: I'm home, taking a nap 5:58 PM
Him: Okay cool love 5:58 PM
Him: Alright no problem. 6:06 PM
Him: Umm someone needs there rest for v-day. Lmao 6:07 PM
Me: What do you mean? 6:08 PM
Him: I'm saying today a day of amor and kissing. 6:10 PM
Him: Just forget it Hun. 6:10 PM
Him: Sorry I I offended you love. 6:10 PM

First of all, when he said to pick you up. And well, I don't live in NY so this may be a NY thing. I would have told him to meet at the place. In fact, I would have set it up from the begining to meet at an specific place. Which takes us to rule number one. Each person arrives at a public place through their own forms of transportation and leaves with their own forms of transportation. That means, no ride home, no pick me up, no pick me up at such street, ZIP.

Second, the moment that he goes into HUN or I offended you LOVE. I would have cancelled the date right then and there. "WHO IN THE FVCK YOU THINK YOU ARE!!!" I would have said.

Third, what was his excuse for being late? Not that it really matters, but, if a woman is late for my date 30 minutes, and there has not been any communication, I am gone, even if she finally shows up. I am serious here. I've done it before. Particularly with prima dona Venezuelan women that think they are the most beautiful sh it in the world. You needed to tell the guy to fvck off.

Fourth. Why, why on earth you continued to feed him and text with him after the date? Why? I would have just sent one email and said. You are about to be blocked. Goodbye. But, I know why you didn't. You are trained to listen, to care, to keep caring for people that are whack jobs. So you let them over extend their boundaries because you deal with people that have boundaries issues. Call it a professional hazard.

If anything, do what I do. Since I am a writer, whenever sh it happened to me, and a lot of shit has happened to me. I call it research. More stuff to put in that palette of ideas to write stories. And it works because then you can see stuff not as shit happening to you, but as experiences that make you a wiser person.

So, thank you for not only providing us with some entertainment, but for allowing us to then Ad nauseam to comment. LOL.
Joined: 9/4/2013
Msg: 46
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Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 4:09:15 PM
You are kidding? Right? First date, a dinner date on Valentines Day?
Joined: 8/18/2013
Msg: 47
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 4:38:37 PM
I wanted to slap you while reading that text conversation. You kept taking his bait. You'd both say "bye " and he'd throw in a dig and you'd reply. Ugh. It was frustrating!
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 48
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 4:59:28 PM

I get that feels like a victim and all that, but just because you accept a date, does not mean "it's on" in every aspect. Nice guy? It's murky territory to claim to be nice, then blow up because the other didn't go along with the intimacy he worked so hard to provide *rolling eyes*


No more VD dates for me.

*I exactly, the whole instant chemistry is mind boggling
*I was trying to be nice and forgiving, instead of being my usual self (rigid and dismissive of BS).
* the snow is ridiculous out here (we've never gotten 5 snow storms in a row). 2 hours is more than ridiculous, lol.
*lol, I was trying to deescalate, no need to have a full on argument.
*agreed, these holidays can be a nightmare for the non-festive
*will do


I had a similar date to yours last year's VD. Very plain and simple.

LilMarleen & dpwesu,

I am indeed looking at the role I played.

That I'm in this profession does not mean I'm perfect, let's measure our own expectations, first.


Sorry, not gonna take time off from any activity, we all learn from our mistakes. It is precisely because we go through sh*t, that we are able/willing to offer advise to others.


I didn't want to end it on a bad note, after he texted me with his concerns. I had no idea it was really gonna hit the fan, I thought he would go through his little rant and tell me "don't text me again" a lot sooner.


Yes, I would have saved me from what took place thereafter. I didn't call him a player, I said "if" he were, he is not a very good one. It was in response to having possibly double booked me and someone before me (as cause for his extreme lateness).


I had a non-VD themed date last year's VD, but I'm gonna sort of see how I'd manage to make sure nothing is expected if I ever dare to go out on VD again.

Yeah, that's reasonable.


1. Weather is really bad, black ice everywhere and heaps of snow off and on the sidewalk, I wore snow boots.
2. That's what I was thinking, like I'd be a b*tch if after he said he'd been through hell and back, to not even meet him for a little bit.
3. I agree
4. Lol, I know the feeling
5 #1: hm, you have a point there.
5 #2: actually, I thanked him while in the car, and when I got off too. I didn't tell him it didn't work, because he even acknowledged that it all started off wrong and that we're arguing and just met. I assumed (you already know) that it didn't work out for both, so no big deal in blocking. Again, my assumption of his acknowledge
6. That's why I took the stuff, because he insisted, I didn't have the heart to say "no thanks".

I thought he realized it was inappropriate and that's why he apologized. He called me around 7:15 to advise of lateness, so it wasn't a 2 hour wait for communication. Thanks.

Yes, but I wasn't even hungry or wanted anything at that point, I was just accompanying him, and ordered, for him not feel even worst. I should have paid, but if I had to suffer through that, the least he can do is pay.

Lady inbred,

Yes, will do.

*making a cross with my fingers*, noooooooooo no cats, lol

We must be getting water from the same river, lol


Lol, if he were hot, then......nah, no difference, he lied to me from the onset, like how the heck do you put 5'5 -5'7, and when you get out of the care, we are shoulder to shoulder? He went from a 5 to a 3 right there, lol.

I will not reply to any more messages, he is blocked from texting me anyways.
I'm already shaking my head, lol. I'm laughing it off right now with my mom and sister, we're all celebrating my Mom's birthday so we're sharing stories. Even my 2 year old is laughing and don't even understand what is being discussed, lol.



What you're saying is even more evident in the texts that followed.

That's how I feel, like the least he could have done after all that, is pay for dinner.

I agree.


I didn't change my expectations, just like you.

Based on the texts I got after blocking him, the communication was not going to cease, since he would have still maintained contact, even when I express am not interested (by blocking). I'm aware that profiles get deleted after a number of blocks, but I didn't want the chance of him keeping in contact by POF. You don't think he would have done the same when he saw it was "deleted"?


It wasn't a dig at that race, but since I'm not of that race, the expectations (cultural expectations) may be different.

I'm not about drama, so I'm not sure why I'd crave it, it just seemed like the right thing to do at the moment.


The balloons were cute, that's why I have away for others to enjoy.


Race goes along with culture, upbringing, beliefs, and all that. I'm simply introducing the idea that the expectation may differ due to culture.

For example: when I'm in Europe or dating someone straight from there, I can expect sex to be an option on the first date, because sex and dating go hand in hand.

Purple Zebra,

Yeah, I hope we (him and I) both learn something from this.
Joined: 9/14/2013
Msg: 49
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 6:10:20 PM
Sorry you had a bad date Belle... what an idiot! With all that waffling, I'm surprised you actually met him... sounds like it was a sympathy date.

You should not let guys like that take advantage of you, you are too nice.

I really like they way you were so helpful when setting the date - coming up with three different possible date nights - very classy.

But this was the first time you met him and you let him pick you up in his car? Is that a wise move? Well, I'd have to check your profile again, but I think you are in NY, so perhaps it's reasonable? Do you have mace, a gun, or know Karate?! - is momma packin'?! While I have picked up a woman for a first meet before, it's rare and not something I recommend.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 50
view profile
Worst Valentine's Day ever
Posted: 2/16/2014 6:35:39 PM

It wasn't a dig at that race, but since I'm not of that race, the expectations (cultural expectations) may be different.

What was being said/pointed out was that race literally tells you nothing about anyone or their culture on an individual level. So, for instance, Indian immigrants and first generation children Indians TEND to carry over a lot of cultural expectations from the cultures of India. However, when you meet an Indian person, they might be from England or Canada or have been in the U.S. generation-ally longer than your family and be from a completely different culture than you'd expect. There's literally no way at all to make a race-person correlation on an individual level. That's why making snap race judgments or expectations is always stupid.

The drama thing was that, given that there were like 15 different ways to avoid this situation going on as long as it did, there must be some subconscious basis of not mitigating it. For instance, who lets someone pick them up for a first meeting in 2014, especially when they had negative feelings about the way the meeting was going? It doesn't make any sense unless the possible drama is what you were actually craving.
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