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 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 26
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dating a 10Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
If a 10 is pure physical perfection, then no. But I have dated men that I thought were a 10 due to the way they treated me and others.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 27
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dating a 10
Posted: 6/25/2014 8:28:41 AM
I don’t know that I’ve ever dated a “10,” which shouldn’t be surprising since I am a zero, but I’ve dated a couple of modelesque women, meaning most men considered them to be very attractive (and in one case, actually did some minor professional modeling), and I’d have to say there were two primary issues that made them different from most other women I’ve dated:

A) I refused to believe they were seriously interested in me and spent our entire time together waiting for the punchline or for the hammer to fall and walking on eggshells and waiting for them to just mysteriously disappear one day, and certainly never gave myself fully to them.

B) Other men refused to believe they were seriously interested in me and would hit on them with me sitting or standing right next to them. Which is different from what most of you describe – the hitting on behind the back. I mean, I was RIGHT THERE, sometimes holding her hand or with my arm around her. Meant nothing to most men – they just saw right through me, like I was a ghost. One of the women said to me after the guy hitting on her finally gave up and left, “God, I thought I was going to have to climb into your lap to get him to go away.”

Nevertheless, I’d take that experience any day over dating someone that NO ONE else finds attractive (including myself), which has been the majority of the dating I’ve done. That doesn’t mean I would fold to peer pressure and stop dating a woman I found attractive and no other guy did. I mean, that’s middle school stuff. But it’s kind of funny – I had issues with BOTH of the modelesque women in which some of my friends kept telling me I could do better, not because they didn’t think they were attractive, but rather because neither were exactly Rhodes Scholars, and I’m one of the smartest people they knew, so I guess we seemed mismatched both ways. The last two women I dated were both fairly pretty and pretty smart and I never heard anybody say anything like that (which is not to say I didn’t hear tons of “This is a bad idea” but that had nothing to do with appearances or personalities – it was because they were right, dating those two was truly a BAD IDEA).

I would like to feel like some others in this thread, that anyone I was in a relationship was a 10, but I've never felt even remotely like that with someone I was actually dating -- there was always something seriously wrong with every situation. Last week, a woman that was a 10 in every possible way (my best friend had her mouth wide open when looking at her brilliantly written profile and her incredible appearance) actually responded, and positively, to one of my POF emails. At first, I tried to keep reminding myself that it was just one response and there was a high chance that we'd never even meet, or that I would even hear from her again. But a few hours later, I started thinking to myself, "I can't date someone like that being like this -- I gotta get back in shape, I gotta get a better job, I gotta get better friends, I gotta get a better car, a better place to live, I gotta be a better person!" Seriously, the first time in many years I've ever reacted like that to anyone, online or in real life. Two days later I never heard back from her and went right back to normal thinking: "I wonder where I should go to lunch tomorrow." That's the kind of effect a real "10" has on someone like me.
 NoBuddies_Fool
Joined: 6/10/2014
Msg: 28
dating a 10
Posted: 6/25/2014 8:32:17 AM

I think the biggest problem with this whole "ten" business, is a matter of perspective and perception

Absolutely...been proven by one of my friends or even my daughter...going on about someone...I'm looking at them thinking...say what??
I do have to say...I've noticed the biggest difference with a mans perspective than women...imo.

On the positive side, the sex is usually great with gorgeous men(in their minds) due to a high confidence level

IME...I found the opposite to be true!

I AM dating a 10. So is he. At least that's what WE think, which is really all that matters

So true!!
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 29
dating a 10
Posted: 6/25/2014 9:25:49 AM
sometimes, it depends upon their childhood. I used to be friends w/ someone who was a 10 with makeup. without, they had a great body but a so-so face. as a child,she had a heavier build, so they developed their personality in order to get attention their looks failed to get. But, when she was fully "kitted out" and in public, she of course got attention she didn't get "normally". She got breaks others didn't. if you could get away with little things, like a celebrity...would you? On those days where you're impatient or woke up on the wrong side of the bed...why not take what's handed to you?

I've known "9"s who thought they were "10"s b/c they lived in a small town, and so didn't feel like it was a big deal being a "10"--and of course, they were right. But, going to university with 16,000 students, one of course got to see women with bodies so perfect, you'd swear surgury was involved. and they did act like it was their job to get out of bed and look good. they knew they got attention, so dressing poorly or bad hair or whatever would get more attention, and more catty comments, than if they looked "average". Like a celebrity who knows they will get chased by photographers just going out to buy groceries.
 LanaTownsend
Joined: 5/27/2014
Msg: 30
dating a 10
Posted: 6/25/2014 12:01:27 PM

Not that I was ever a 10, but I remember getting eyef#cked on many occasions by random men. It must be ten times more tedious for someone who's really beautiful. You'd have to either buy into the illusion and become just as obnoxious, or you'd want to kick everyone in the nuts before you finally settle on some happy medium that basically means walking around in a bubble and ignoring anyone and everyone you don't know.


Yes! I'm not anyone's "10" either but I've been on dates when the guys made it pretty clear that they just wanted to smash, or gotten leered at in public. I'm glad that I'm more on the "cute" side than 'HOT' because that must be annoying with the constant harassment, sexual advances and attention. Your post reminds me something my good friend told me. He said that he prefers NOT to date the "super beautiful" women because often times, they are the most damaged and insecure.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 31
dating a 10
Posted: 6/25/2014 12:59:12 PM
I'm not a 10 to everyone, but I'm certainly a 10 to some.

I don't really have the need to be attractive to EVERYONE...
I pretty much have to carry around a bat as it is.

I think if you're with the right person, he'll think you're a 10.
I know quite a few men I consider 10's even though they aren't
model material or everyone's cup of tea.
 kj521
Joined: 8/8/2012
Msg: 32
dating a 10
Posted: 6/25/2014 2:43:14 PM
I am sorry but I will just never get this 1-10 attractiveness rating scale........too many variables for me!

Could also be that I see the true beauty of someone in their imperfections, too!

For me......that's the good stuff! :)
 AddHomonym
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 33
dating a 10
Posted: 6/25/2014 3:14:00 PM

That's one of the two places where "leagues" are real. If in your mind, you are in a different world than the person you are trying to turn into a partner, you're going to have problems.


I think you make a good point Igor, overlooking the "leagues" thing is simple in terms of getting a date but over time, it can play a bigger role where relationships are concerned. Clearly I was never cut out for dating "10"s long term.

When I use the term "10" (something I do reluctantly), I'm specifically talking about physical beauty. Halle Berry IS more physically beautiful than Whoopi Goldberg just as Grace Kelly IS more physically beautiful than Roseanne Barr. These are objective truths. Physical beauty is only one factor and maybe not a very good one when it comes to finding a mate but when you try to call everyone a "10" it becomes even more useless than it was to begin with.


Which is different from what most of you describe – the hitting on behind the back. I mean, I was RIGHT THERE, sometimes holding her hand or with my arm around her. Meant nothing to most men – they just saw right through me, like I was a ghost.


Chances are this is on you. Based on the way you seem to see yourself from a number of other comments in these fora, you probably gave other men "permission" to disrespect you like that by avoiding eye-contact, etc. You describe yourself as a "zero"? I don't believe such a thing is possible any more than a "10" is anything close to perfection. From what I can see, you are a handsome fella who is in pretty decent physical shape. You have more going for you than the majority of guys in here. The day you figure that out, women will take notice.

I'd say you need to develop an A-game. Not some phony charade but true confidence that comes from knowing yourself and your capabilities. It takes time but you can do it - anyone can. Everyone has unique gifts and strengths, when you know what yours are and you own it, the rest will take care of itself.
 FullMoonGuy
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 34
dating a 10
Posted: 6/25/2014 6:28:01 PM

Lots of people think that someone who is THAT attractive, is not really human in the same way that they are.


Science can be weird sometimes.
 TuMuchFun
Joined: 9/29/2008
Msg: 35
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dating a 10
Posted: 6/25/2014 9:08:50 PM
First off there is no such thing as a "10." That being said I don't do a thing different based on the hotness level of the date, equal treatment for all.
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 36
dating a 10
Posted: 6/26/2014 9:40:02 AM
Had one date with someone I thought was a 10... BIG mistake

Someone like that, it's easy to suddenly gain a few insecurities. It takes a really strong mind. Becaue you know she's getting hit on all the time. If you've ever had any trust issues, any insecurities, they're all going to come back.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 37
dating a 10
Posted: 6/26/2014 3:10:44 PM

First off there is no such thing as a "10." That being said I don't do a thing different based on the hotness level of the date, equal treatment for all.


Okay, now we're talking. This statement is the best so far.

Having worked in the business, where I had to hire very attractive models, and seen them before make up and after make up, before retouching and after retouching, I have to say that most Attractive women are between a 6 and an 8. Everything else is an optical illusion created through surgery, clothes, make up, stylist and attitude. I've seen curvy women that are absolutely gorgeous and sexy the way they carry themselves and by any standard are 10s. I've seen women that are attractive, but because of lack of self esteem, or care for themselves, look like scarecrows with no better numbers than 4.

With that said, I have to say that ALL the women I've dated in my life have been somewhere a 7 and a 10. The problem with the so called 10, is that their sense of worth most of the time is derived entirely by the way they look, not by the substance of their personality and actions, so I find those women repulsive.

I prefer a natural 8 or one that is satisfied with a 9, well knowing that tomorrow, after running a marathon, climbing some mountain and sleeping in a tent, and snot running from their nose, they don't care how they look at that moment.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 38
dating a 10
Posted: 6/26/2014 8:44:02 PM
for the math geeks in the audience, if you wish to get a general idea of "where you rate": Enter an event with a large audience, say an arena concert with a few hundred. how many check you out? if its a slim majority, that would be around 60%, which makes you a 6 out of 10. If it seems more like three-quarters of the sample are checking you out, that would be more than 70%, making you a 7 or an 8. If nearly everyone's checking you out, making "dayum, you saw that, right?" looks to each other as you go by, and when you cut them off in line they suddenly turn into southern gentlemen and act like they're glad to do you the favor of letting you in...congratulations, I don't even have to explain that.

and yes, its based on looks. appearances are what get your proverbial foot in the door. If people like what they see, they are willing to investigate further, just like a product on the shelf. but hey, our purpose in life is to procreate anyway, so it makes logical sense we approach relationships this way. if we didn't care about your looks, you'd be our friend.

someone who's hot on the outside may be ugly on the inside...but that brings us back to the question, is dating someone who's hot on the outside and POTENTIALLY ugly on the inside different from dating "other" people.
 Flurr
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 39
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dating a 10
Posted: 6/26/2014 9:19:21 PM
^^^^ assuming you're in a population within your age range.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 40
dating a 10
Posted: 6/27/2014 8:06:58 AM

someone who's hot on the outside may be ugly on the inside...but that brings us back to the question


My experience has been that being attractive in the outside does not necessarily means you're ugly in the inside. I've dated a ton of gorgeous women. The more consistent thing is that many are simply insecure. I think that may apply as well to the male super attractive guys, who when they develop a better sense of self, become narcissist. Why? Because they can get away with it.

I have always been attracted to emotionally dark women. They are artist, going against the grain, non-conformist, introverts, so in a way I have gotten very lucky. Do these women have issues? Yes they have, but no different than an ugly woman, or anyone for that matter.

If anything, attractive people have the advantage of getting away with their narcism as opposed to the rest of the population, simply because they are beautiful.

My current gf gets approach by photographers to see if she models. She is quite a natural, even without the make up. She doesn't give a sh it about it and has only considered it as a means of getting extra income. But because she is an intellectual first, a tomboy second and a mom, the beauty thing to her is a strange thing that feels awkward to her.
 ForRumOnly
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 41
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dating a 10
Posted: 6/27/2014 10:35:11 AM
Either or both of you can be a ten, and still have a deep and fulfilling relationship. Average and ugly people can be shallow - they have no big advantage due to their lack of attractiveness. This idea you present, OP, sounds like it would be said in compensation by someone who isn't that attractive.
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 42
dating a 10
Posted: 6/27/2014 12:32:16 PM
Either or both of you can be a ten, and still have a deep and fulfilling relationship. Average and ugly people can be shallow - they have no big advantage due to their lack of attractiveness. This idea you present, OP, sounds like it would be said in compensation by someone who isn't that attractive.


Bingo, we have a winner here. I've also observed a pattern where formerly average or unattractive people do something to their appearance to make them perceive themselves as being a ten---e.g. having dental work done or becoming more physically fit, and suddenly they lose all their humility and become self-entitled narcissists.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 43
dating a 10
Posted: 6/27/2014 1:38:34 PM
Fluff, you can be attractive to people of different age ranges--MILFs, for example--or you can only be attractive to only your peers. If you're a 40 something dude attracting attention from younger ladies--and I've seen that happen--then you can assume you've got "it".

InnerGorilla, thank you for proving my point.

halcyon, I can't speak for men, since I don't check 'em out, but working in a small town, I watched 3 women who grew up heavy, lose weight (due to drug use or exercise or surgury) and become "more" physically attractive...and use that to hook up with the playas in town who didn't give them a look before, and couldn't get much of a date from all the bridge burning the guys had done. the ladies simply wanted to enjoy what they couldn't at a younger age.

some people have grown up w/ good looks, and noticed that life treats them differently. they have options not offered to others. they CAN tend to think that looks are a sign of success--there's plenty of scientific studies, from teachers treating attractive students as if they could be more successful, to businesses hiring attractive people more than average looking job seekers, thinking that beauty and success are mutually connected.

after all, if you have something that works...why not think it has something to do with success? it may not in the grand scheme of reality, but for you...its doing the job well. in your world, appearances matter, maybe more than substance. you may not have to be highly skilled at your job, for example, if guys keep running in to help as an excuse to stand behind your chair and look down. all you have to do is ignore them doing that, and the job gets done.

for some...that result is enough. how they got there is just...an annoyance.
 BLoNDeANGeL845
Joined: 6/10/2014
Msg: 44
dating a 10
Posted: 6/27/2014 2:15:48 PM

Bingo, we have a winner here. I've also observed a pattern where formerly average or unattractive people do something to their appearance to make them perceive themselves as being a ten---e.g. having dental work done or becoming more physically fit, and suddenly they lose all their humility and become self-entitled narcissists.


OR a former doormat stops accepting the shit that's been shovelled at them & the people around that person are pissed...after all that pile of shit stinks & the shovel is quite heavy...

No, I do not think I am a 10 but I'd be stupid & a liar & blind to say I do not think that I am an attractive woman, esp. factoring in my age range. And now I have more confidence/leverage. So, if I was looking to meet a man online, & he contacts me, lives further away & expects me to put gas in my car, drive out his way, pay tolls, etc. for a cup of coffee, he is an azzhat. I'm not a sexual pizza that gets delivered for free. A person with options will choose the one that's best- who is most respectful & considerate if they have half a brain. Doesn't make anyone a narcissist etc. In fact, this post should illuminate some, maybe an attractive person just wants someone kind, respectful & really doesn't place too much stock in their looks up to a point.

Besides, I want to be the pretty one in the relationship...LMFAO
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 45
dating a 10
Posted: 6/27/2014 3:13:44 PM
LanaTownsend- Sorry, can't get past thinking about Bo Derrick and Dudley Moore, Bo with her braids, running along the shore :D
Apologies, carry on, debating this one ;)
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 46
dating a 10
Posted: 6/27/2014 5:09:47 PM
@ message 51:

My statements were general and not intended to be gender-specific. As my observations relate to me personally, and my own dating experiences, I was making reference to some men I have known that turned c0cky, self-entitled, and narcissistic after they got buff and had their teeth fixed. If you choose to internalize my statements and take them as a personal attack, that's on you.

As far as beyotchiness goes, you are projecting, and your misplaced vitriol says more about you than it does me. Good for you if you lost weight and improved your self-esteem--however, I had nothing to do with your getting mistreated by others when you were heavy. I don't even know you---I don't know what you look like, nor do I want to know.

I'm all in favor of people making self-improvements, and feeling empowered, but when they go too far and start adopting an "I'm entitled to this, that, and the other because I'm an attractive man/woman", that's where I draw the line.

I don't care if you're a man thinking women owe you sex, or if you're a woman thinking men owe you free meals. I believe people who brag and tell others that they are owed certain things because of how attractive they are (or how young they look) are very insecure and are totally obnoxious.
 BLoNDeANGeL845
Joined: 6/10/2014
Msg: 47
dating a 10
Posted: 6/28/2014 5:16:02 AM
but when they go too far and start adopting an "I'm entitled to this, that, and the other because I'm an attractive man/woman", that's where I draw the line.

I don't care if you're a man thinking women owe you sex, or if you're a woman thinking men owe you free meals. I believe people who brag and tell others that they are owed certain things because of how attractive they are (or how young they look) are very insecure and are totally obnoxious.


Go too far? Each couple decides it's own dynamics, so unless a person is in a relationship w/ you, making demands on you, it's not your concern.

Entitled? Every man & woman is entitled to respect (unless they act like an azzhat), kindness, mannerly treatment, etc. REGARDLESS of whether they are attractive or not- besides, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. HOWEVER, when a man CHOOSES to pursue a woman who is traditionally attractive in an area where there are not that many available women, he would be dumb if he didn't realize he had competition & IF HE wants to court her, negging her, being selfish/self-centered (I live 100 miles away but I like ur pix, drive out to my house to _____) would drive away a sane woman w/ even a miniscule amount of self-esteem. IMO, a woman should NOT ask for anything, but if a man or men make offers, she can say "yes" or "no"...she can pick & choose, & a smart, self-preserving woman will choose from among that, based on many factors, INCLUDING his willingness to share...a player is going to try to get many women to come out his way for coffee, ice tea & sex, he is meeting so many women...A sincere man who wants a real relationship will invest his emotions, time & yes his discretionary income. Even Dr. Phil used to say people spend their $ on what is a priority to them. For me to be in a relationship, I need to be a priority as much as make him a priority. But he must INITIATE.

A friend recently said she saw how hard I worked before surgery & after, & basically if anyone had a right to brag it was me. I do not think I am bragging, but I won't be coy either. And yes, we all have insecurities, myself included, particularly when our identities change, when people respond & react to us in such a strong way in a short period of time. Sometimes the truth sounds like bragging...in the last couple of months, I've had men literally pounce on me INAPPROPRIATELY like predators, including a semi-assault in broad daylight in a public place-WTF? I've had other females who I've known for years flip out & even admit they were jealous cuz I lost weight & they remained heavier, as though I won a lottery, not worked hard & subjected myself to many difficult situations in order to attain that goal.

Obnoxious? TY, better to be obnoxious for a day, a week, a month or a year & happier & healthier, than a schmucky doormat for life. At least I had the courage to change, unlike many people who keep doing the same thing over & over & expect different results-insanity!

As far as free drinks & dinner...I never ask for it...well, I cannot drink alcohol or eat very much at one sitting, the last time I ate out, I ate 1/2 of a cobb salad that was maybe $10 + a $2 ice tea! What a gold digger...

I take back a previous post- Maybe I am a "10" not for how I look, but because I was WILLING to WORK TO CHANGE, & worked hard, focussed on myself & made many changes in my life that many or most people would not even consider. And I want to be around people like THAT whether it is a female friend OR a man I date. Those are the true 10's!

So dating a "10", regardless of how you score a person, can be about having to rise up to being a person who works on things inside & out because that other person does so, & therefore the relationship with them would be a constant experience of growing as a person!
 TuMuchFun
Joined: 9/29/2008
Msg: 48
view profile
History
dating a 10
Posted: 6/28/2014 7:21:56 AM
The question begs to be answered "Do those (men or women) who make life changes to better their looks or standing in the world, be it by better health, fitness, life changes or by spending $$$ to fix a body part turn into narcissist's? From what I'm reading here about what people have said about themselves or about someone they know/knew many do.

Well I'm off to the gym to work with my $100 per hour trainer, then I' m off to get my teeth whitened followed by some hair restoration capped off by a trip to the tanning salon, see you "5s" later.
 BLoNDeANGeL845
Joined: 6/10/2014
Msg: 49
dating a 10
Posted: 6/28/2014 8:17:28 AM
The question begs to be answered "Do those (men or women) who make life changes to better their looks or standing in the world, be it by better health, fitness, life changes or by spending $$$ to fix a body part turn into narcissist's? From what I'm reading here about what people have said about themselves or about someone they know/knew many do.


http://www.winning-teams.com/recognizenarcissist.html

since some people equate feeling good about oneself after working on themselves as narcissism in the pathological sense, here is some info:

Can you recognize a narcissist?
It is difficult to recognize a narcissist because he (or she) spends all of his time acting, protecting his ego by presenting to the world a mask, a false image of himself. As a result he becomes a master of deceit. But it is extremely important to be able to recognize people whose behavior can damage you, your family, or damage an organization's performance.

A narcissist is not capable of putting the organization's needs before his or her own [ego] needs.1

Researchers have found that a narcissist reacts much more emotionally than a non-narcissist, sometimes with "narcissistic rage" when his (or her) ego is threatened.2 Social comparison information is especially salient as the narcissist processes social information in terms of its relevance to the self, that is, he reacts to negative feedback with more anger and aggression and lower self-esteem than a non-narcissist. In fact his mood and self-esteem fluctuations can usually be attributed to social comparison information.

"Overall, individuals high in narcissism displayed amplified responses to social comparison information, experiencing greater positive affect from downward comparisons and greater hostile affect from upward comparisons."3
For example, it has been recognized for some time that narcissists prize intellectual performance above almost everything else,4 so a better qualified work colleague would likely evoke a hostile affect through upward comparison.

A narcissist wants you to feel like you are losing your mind, keep you guessing and doubting yourself. Then you become dependent on him and he is in control. Eventually, you see him for what he really is. You are now able to be free!

Because of a propensity to internalize failure, the narcissist's emotional response to failure is to feel shame, as opposed to guilt felt by people without the disorder. So in order to avoid shame, which the narcissist feels must be avoided at all costs, he externalizes blame for negative events.5 As he feels someone must be guilty, he almost always attributes blame to others. Only when his self-esteem is particularly high, perhaps through some positive feedback he has engineered, does he accept blame, and only then if it can be seen as a magnanimous gesture.

A narcissist is someone who is overtly or subtly arrogant, exhibitionistic, vain, manipulative, and greedy for admiration.6 Narcissistic rage, character assassination and projection are some of the overt ways in which the narcissist expresses himself. For example, she may envy a work colleague's beauty, and project her feelings into her colleague by accusing her of being envious. Projection in teams is particularly prevalent.

The denial of remorse and gratitude by the narcissist are two of the more subtle ways used to protect an internal sense of grandiosity.7 An example of a narcissist's ability to be subtle might be when he arrives late for a meeting. Rather than offer a sincere apology, he may blame someone else for keeping him talking, thus externalizing the fault ("It's not my fault") and maintaining his sense of grandiosity.

Despite tending to be exhibitionistic, it is very rare to hear a narcissist brag or boast. Instead, he (or she) tends to 'drop' information in the form of an ostensibly ordinary matter-of-fact report, which appears to be intended to elicit admiration without asking for it. For example, rather than say, "I was so please to meet our CEO, Peter Smith", he will casually allude to "...lunch with Peter", in a way that induces a sense of distance and inferiority in the recipient of the information; again maintaining his sense of grandiosity.8

A distinction must be made between 'normal' or 'healthy' narcissism on the one hand and 'pathological' narcissism on the other. We all have some degree and variety of narcissistic delusion which, if it is not too great, is normal and healthy. But the pathological narcissist has a level of delusion that is divorced from reality.9

Kernberg used a theoretical frame to differentiate between 'normal' and 'pathological' narcissism, combining ego psychology and object relations theory. Normal narcissism refers to well integrated representations of the self and others, whilst pathological narcissism relates to an impaired intrapsychic structure with grandiose self-representation and a severe pathology in object relations.10 Lubit compared 'healthy' and 'destructive' narcissism in relation to their long-term impact on organizations. The following is an extract from his comparison table.11

Characteristic Healthy Narcissism Destructive Narcissism
Self-confident High outward self-confidence in line with reality Grandiose
Desire for power, wealth and admiration May enjoy power Pursues power at all costs, lacks normal inhibitions in its pursuit
Relationships Real concern for others and their ideas; does not exploit or devalue others Concerns limited to expressing socially appropriate response when convenient; devalues and exploits others without remorse
Ability to follow a consistent path Has values; follows through on plans Lacks values; easily bored; often changes course
Foundation Healthy childhood with support for self-esteem and appropriate limits on behaviour towards others Traumatic childhood undercutting true sense of self-esteem and/or learning that he/she doesn't need to be considerate of others

It is rare for a narcissistic individual to be diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder because those who really should be don't seek help and so don't get clinically assessed; it is usually members of their family or work colleagues who seek help to cope with them.

Here are a few pointers that may help you identify one:
Their lack of empathy colors everything they do. They may say, "How are you?" when you meet, but they are working from memory. They are not interested in how you are.
Virtually all of their ideas or ways of behaving in a given situation are taken from others, people they know and perhaps think of as an authority (mirroring).
Their sense of self-importance and lack of empathy means that they will often interrupt the conversations of others.
They expect others to do the day-to-day chores as they feel too important to waste their time on common things.
Listen for the constant use of "I", "me" and "my" when they talk.
They very rarely talk about their inner life, for example their memories and dreams.
They feel that the rules at work don't apply to them.
They will always cheat whenever they think they can get away with it.
If you share workload with them expect to do the lion's share yourself.
They love to delegate work or projects, then interfere by micro-managing it. If it goes well, they take the credit, if it goes badly they blame the person they delegated it to.
There tends to be higher levels of stress with people who work with or interact with a narcissist, which in turn increases absenteeism and staff turnover.
They get impatient and restless when the topic of discussion is about someone else, and not about them.
Another frustrating aspect of the narcissist's behavior is how he (or she) will cause an argument just to protect himself from a perceived ego threat. Behind the Narcissist's Mask is an extract from the book Narcissism: Behind the Mask12. It is an argument between a typical narcissist and his wife. The narcissist had forgotten to pick up milk from the shop whilst his wife was at work, as agreed that morning between the two of them. It then goes on to explain the real meaning behind what the narcissist says. The behavior of the narcissist is typical of how a narcissist will create and distort an argument solely to protect his self-esteem. Click here to read the argument.
 Like2dance
Joined: 4/13/2013
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dating a 10
Posted: 6/28/2014 1:11:18 PM
Most of the women I have dated I first saw as at least nines. Over time they became eights, then sevens ... and so on.
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