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Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  > To reply to generic messages or not??      Home login  
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 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 176
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To reply to generic messages or not??Page 8 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

So you do something that guarantees that you'll only get a 1-2% chance of a reply; then claim you're doing it because you only have a 1-2% chance of a reply.


You're missing the point. It takes about 20 minutes to write a creative well thought out message. It takes a few seconds to send a generic one. The success rate between the new methods expressed as a percentage of messages that get replies is about the same. Honestly I think the creative ones would be higher, but would take 100 of them at 20 minutes or more each to see that.

So think of it this way, he has an hour. He cranks out 100 generic messages. He gets two replies. Or he cranks out 3 creative messages and gets no replies. Which hour was better spent? Now maybe after he's invested 2000 minutes, the 100 creative messages might get four replies, double the rate. But, in 2000 minutes the 3333 generic messages he could have sent would get 67 replies at a 2% response rate. Get a reply for every 30 minutes of effort or one for every 500 minutes, (8 hours, 20 minutes) of effort?
 Iam_RFSF2014
Joined: 9/4/2014
Msg: 177
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/21/2014 6:52:46 AM
Wow, does it REALLY take 20 minutes to send a creative, well thought out message? I'm surprised by that estimate.

I think of messages I've sent that got responses... Well? I tend to write a few sentences with a tip of my hat to something in a guy's profile, attempting a dash of humor if there is anything there to work with. I think it probably took me a minute or three.

And when I think of the messages I've responded to - many of them were only a couple sentences, again, with SOME acknowledgement of some fact on my profile that perhaps struck a chord with them (examples -- a football reference, a race we both ran, a shared love of ethnic food....) I can't imagine it took 20 minutes to come up with that!

Now - and perhaps here is the key - if you can't FIND any fact on someone's profile that strikes a chord, because you actually have nothing in common, but you think the person is attractive? Then maybe the chances they'll respond to anything is low for a reason?
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 178
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:03:41 AM
Not true. Your chances of getting a response back will be much better with a creative opening message.


That hasn't been the case in my experience. I have sent various types of first emails. My positive reply rate remained the about the same. However I often got more emails and "winks" from women when I added new and better photos or a lesser extent when I made changes to my profile.
 basilisk123
Joined: 12/17/2011
Msg: 179
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To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:09:23 AM
Iam, back when I wad looking, I did exactly as you said. It was totally not working. Some men will spend a lot of time narrowing down their longer messages and make revisions so that maybe it will be replied to. I usually spent a MINIMUM of 20 minutes writing and rewriting messages for women. All for that 1-2% percent chance to get a reply. What women sees from guys who put effort into their message is just the finished product. Which of course was very fustrating, but that's life I suppose. Just a long list of fustrations.
 TuMuchFun
Joined: 9/29/2008
Msg: 180
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To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/21/2014 10:31:30 AM
My emails 2 minutes max to write, I took more time to look at the profile of the person I was emailing to come up with something original and genuine. The bottom line is if they like the email and like the pictures/profile they will respond no matter how much time you invested in the email. It's a three legged endeavor, if you have all three you get a reply, two of three chances are good, 1 of 3 not so good and 0 of three close to nill (a courtesy reply to keep them in the most likely to reply link.)

That being said the pictures hold the most weight followed closely by grammer/spelling (that sic was my funny ;) but for guys writing women as most guys could care less bout grammar if they like the pictures and think you're hot.) But guys some women will diss Channing Tatum if they can't spell...

So if you're wrining something brief, make sure it's grammatically correct or at least respectful with some effort (I'm a perfect example of far from perfect but at least I try.)
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 181
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/21/2014 2:17:53 PM

Nothing wrong with a generic first message. I can email 100 girls and get maybe 2 replies if I'm lucky no matter what kind of message I send. Once I get a reply then my messages get more creative, but I really don't understand the point of getting creative on a message that only has a 1%-2% chance of getting a reply


By this logic you send 100 emails with the same crap to 100 girls. You get 2%. But the problem is, that you cannot email those 100 girls again EVER. And 89% of them discarded your email as being a form letter, while may 21% opted for checking out your profile and out of that 2 of them went for it. So you go out with these two girls. Let's even say that you bang ed both of them. Then what? One didn't one anything to do with you after that, the second fizzled into three dates and it's done. Next hundred girls. So you device a different message and find the 100 new girls and message away.

In three weeks you run out of prospects in your area, or women that are attractive enough.

So welcome to the sharp shooter system instead of the shotgun system.

You spend more time reading their profiles and only send an email to those that you found the golden nugget in their profile. Start with those you find the best to fit your criteria. Send only messages that are specific to that girl and only that girl can get. So no "Hi, I think you're interesting" type of crap. Find the nugget and send a message that says "I see that you were in the Costa Brava, did you also go to Barcelona or Nice?"

When you use this approach instead of sending 100 genetic emails to get 2 responses, you will send about 7 emails before you get a response. And while before you had to crossed off the other 98 women that saw through your generic email, now you still have 93 women to pursue.

Life is good.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 182
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To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/21/2014 2:53:04 PM

TuMuchFun
My emails 2 minutes max to write, I took more time to look at the profile of the person I was emailing to come up with something original and genuine. The bottom line is if they like the email and like the pictures/profile they will respond no matter how much time you invested in the email.

That being said the pictures hold the most weight followed closely by grammer/spelling

This is the correct answer, just in case anyone was in doubt.

InnerGorilla
So welcome to the sharp shooter system instead of the shotgun system.

You spend more time reading their profiles and only send an email to those that you found the golden nugget in their profile. Start with those you find the best to fit your criteria. Send only messages that are specific to that girl and only that girl can get. So no "Hi, I think you're interesting" type of crap. Find the nugget and send a message that says "I see that you were in the Costa Brava, did you also go to Barcelona or Nice?"

The problem with your system is that it will get responses from women who do not wish to date you, and will never date you. Back when I first started OLD, and was learning the ropes, I learned to look for profiles with some “meat”, some real content. And I would then use that to hook their interest. Say she mentions that she likes “the Blues”. You go with:

I see you like the Blues. Are you a member of the Houston Blues Society? A bunch of us who are members were down at The Big Easy last Saturday night to see xxxxx, and it was really a great show.

Now if she is really into the Blues, she is almost certain to reply. And when I first learned how to do this, I was ecstatic that I was actually getting responses. But I soon learned that a response from a woman who only wants to be a pen pal is really worse than no response at all.

I want responses only from women who might one day go out with me, not just talk online about “the Blues” or whatever other interests we might have in common.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 183
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/21/2014 5:29:04 PM
You make a good point Ohenry. However...


I see you like the Blues. Are you a member of the Houston Blues Society? A bunch of us who are members were down at The Big Easy last Saturday night to see xxxxx, and it was really a great show.


One thing you learn is NOT to create a pen pall and to create an image of a place the two of you would have a great time together. So the above thing, instead of talking about your group at this point I would have said something that ended up painting a place you can go and asking her a question.

Now as you mentioned, you are going to hit a lot of misses, but that is part of the process. And while a lot of guys are complaining that nobody responds to their emails, YOU are engaging. The other crusial thing is to quickly introduce the idea of a date.

I drink. And I hate coffee dates. I just don't do them. If she suggest that I shoot her down right away. So in the process I ask her if she prefers reds or whites. A lot of women like sweet wines, and it's a good place to make fun of them in a non-threatening sort of way. But that also introduces the idea of a particular type of restaurant where you may want to take her, something in the likes of "Oh, wow, so you do like Super Tuscans. I still prefer Tempranillos, but there's this Neapolitan Pizza Place that has some really good wines, and their Marguaritas are out of this world. On Thursdays they have Tango night, and a tango school goes there and dances between the tables. It's fun to watch even when you do not do any dancing."

You get her thinking and visualizing what it is to be in this sort of date that is pure fun, and all you need to do is ask her for the date.


I soon learned that a response from a woman who only wants to be a pen pal is really worse than no response at all.


I don't think they are worse than no response at all. I would rather spend my evening communicating back and forth than just sending blind messages. And once they open the door, then you can work on your skills at closing the deal.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 184
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To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/21/2014 6:00:53 PM

Wow, does it REALLY take 20 minutes to send a creative, well thought out message? I'm surprised by that estimate.


It's the entire process starting with combing through profiles and ending with proof reading a message. I may be over estimating for illustrative purposes, but even at a few minutes it would illustrate the point that was made. It's the difference between being selective and broadcasting. Seems life on this planet tends more to the later than the former.

Then again maybe I'm just a slow writer.... but if I don't take that time the tone ends up all wrong all too often.
 NDTfan
Joined: 6/5/2012
Msg: 185
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/21/2014 8:40:48 PM

You're missing the point.


No, you're missing the point. The biggest problem with men who use this approach is that they're not taking into account the woman in question. You can up your response rate by messaging the women most likely to message you back; and realizing that sometimes it's just not gonna happen.

If you like Nascar, pizza and tailgating parties where you drink until you puke up your breakfast do you really think you're going to get a message back from a woman who reads, doesn't drink and hates sports? If you're 70 and she's 20, who's wasting whose time really? If she's slim and active and you're so big you're immobile do you think a "bed date" at your house is in the cards?

Of course not, but that doesn't matter to a lot of men. All that they seem to think is necessary for a relationship is that he'd totally pop a boner and stick it in her. If I got a message from a man and he had nothing n common with me at all I just figured that he was illiterate. If he was delusional about his body type, I figured that he has some soft of a mental issue where he has to live in fantasy because reality is too hard to bear; and that I would have to put alot of work into tip toeing around the truth.No thanks.

And that's where the whole "you won't win the lottery if you don't take a chance" bullsh*t comes into play. It's fine if you're content with the results you get; it's not if you spew your disappointment all over her (or hers plural). It's also not fine when a WHOLE LOT of the bitter bros decide to retaliate by becoming abusive or by disparaging the competition; since they have so little going for them sabotage is the only thing they have left. And it's REALLY not fine if you use it to justify ruining someone else's OLD experience because if you're not going to get what you want, then nobody else is either.


Now - and perhaps here is the key - if you can't FIND any fact on someone's profile that strikes a chord, because you actually have nothing in common, but you think the person is attractive? Then maybe the chances they'll respond to anything is low for a reason?


You've nailed it, but you're being too subtle. I think men who don't pay attention to profiles and message on pics alone aren't actually interested in that woman as a person; he's only interested in a pretty toy to sleep with. And they're pissed because women catch on to that right away.
 spot4username
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 186
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/22/2014 6:19:24 AM
I actually just wrote about this on another forum. I have been doing this OLD for a decade. I used to answer the Hi! and How are you? messages because I still thought that was the right thing to do (respond to EVERY message). I quickly learned that it was only the very rare case where it led to any sort of actual correspondence. Why waste everyone's time?

You answer with a hello to them or tell them how you are and perhaps pick something out of there profile and ask a question about it. Most of the time you don't get a response. If you do get a response it is just as lame. One of the favorites of these types is to ask how OLD is working for you/if you have had any luck. *yawn* That has to be one of the most overused initial or follow-up messages.

A man that would be able to interest and intrigue me in real life would also be able to write a short message that did the same. I don't care for a novel or to have a man's profile copied onto the message. Pick one thing based on my profile and mention it or ask a question about it. That isn't hard. It is what I do when I write to men. If you can't find anything to ask about or mention then... why are you messaging me? If I read a man's profile and all he has is a nice photo(s) but nothing that I can ask about I don't bother. I don't understand the argument of "but her profile was blank/lame". That is on you. Why would you write someone who has no content? What were you expecting?
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 187
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/22/2014 6:34:08 AM
You answer with a hello to them or tell them how you are and perhaps pick something out of there profile and ask a question about it. Most of the time you don't get a response. If you do get a response it is just as lame. One of the favorites of these types is to ask how OLD is working for you/if you have had any luck. *yawn* That has to be one of the most overused initial or follow-up messages.


I have responded to "How are you? initial emails and got subsequent emails that were longer and contained more information. I have also responded to well written first emails and never heard from that person again. I don't think the type of initial email is a general indicator of how articulate or lazy or interested someone is.
 gingham7
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 188
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/22/2014 7:32:37 AM
If I was using OLD, "Hi" or "How are you?" or some other generic message wouldn't bother me for the first email. My decision for initial interest would largely be based on his pictures and what is written on the profile. But if the follow up emails don't have more substance, then I would lose interest.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 189
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/22/2014 8:42:43 AM

A man that would be able to interest and intrigue me in real life would also be able to write a short message that did the same. I don't care for a novel or to have a man's profile copied onto the message. Pick one thing based on my profile and mention it or ask a question about it. That isn't hard. It is what I do when I write to men. If you can't find anything to ask about or mention then... why are you messaging me?


Bingo!! And right here above is the simple formula to getting women to respond to guys. Of course if the guy uses the "Hi.." with nothing else, he better be good looking and then have a great follow up email.
 NoBuddies_Fool
Joined: 6/10/2014
Msg: 190
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/22/2014 9:03:12 AM
This is the correct answer, just in case anyone was in doubt


Bingo!! And right here above is the simple formula to getting women to respond to guys

I don't think there is a correct answer.
My experience is on any given day...I may repond to a "hi" if the pictures look great or if the profile reads sincere.
But on another day..maybe I won't...even if the guy looks great and same circumstances...It may come across as arrogant or the lack of effort would p.o. me....TIMING is of the essense...somedays!
I sometimes think men try to be funny...which never comes across well...in most circumstances.

Plus an individual response is going to vary... depending on ones age, wants, needs, mindsets, self esteem, desperation, options, politeness.....etc.
So....it's all up to you.
 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 191
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To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/22/2014 5:26:14 PM


This is the correct answer, just in case anyone was in doubt


Bingo!! And right here above is the simple formula to getting women to respond to guys

I don't think there is a correct answer.
My experience is on any given day...I may repond to a "hi" if the pictures look great or if the profile reads sincere.
But on another day..maybe I won't...even if the guy looks great and same circumstances...It may come across as arrogant or the lack of effort would p.o. me....TIMING is of the essense...somedays!
I sometimes think men try to be funny...which never comes across well...in most circumstances.

Plus an individual response is going to vary... depending on ones age, wants, needs, mindsets, self esteem, desperation, options, politeness.....etc.
So....it's all up to you.


This is how I feel. I know on they have this feature in which they'll "Great message" or something to that extent whenever someone sends a well thought out message but I don't think it really matters. A chick on there sent me a cool message asking me about the Coast Guard but my interest in her didn't go up because she sent me a well thought out message.

Personally offline I'm going to tell a girl "Hey what's up?" when I want her attention and vice versa. We're both going to get the other's attention with a greeting. It won't be "I see you're wearing red, I like the color red, it's my favorite color too." It sounds wooden.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 192
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/23/2014 6:11:45 AM

This is how I feel. I know on they have this feature in which they'll "Great message" or something to that extent whenever someone sends a well thought out message but I don't think it really matters. A chick on there sent me a cool message asking me about the Coast Guard but my interest in her didn't go up because she sent me a well thought out message.


Exactly. A possible exception is when a woman mentions something about herself on the first email that isn't on her profile. But has been rare.
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 193
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/23/2014 6:16:55 PM

That hasn't been the case in my experience. I have sent various types of first emails. My positive reply rate remained the about the same. However I often got more emails and "winks" from women when I added new and better photos or a lesser extent when I made changes to my profile.


Actually, my most successful conversation starter on here, was thanks to Swype's habit of only working when it feels like it:

7

After the immediate conversation started, I tried it out a little more, it actually worked. And it wasn't just asking why i just sent them one number, it was actually good conversations. But that was also in an area where for some reason I'm amazing to those girls, but sadly the most dull places you could ever actually live.

Your first message is meaningless if she doesn't want to talk to you. The best message ever written won't suddenly make you hot. If she wants to talk, she'll talk. The length of your message is just the scapegoat to get around the common habit of refusing to actually reject someone. It's a way to make it your fault she doesn't want to talk to you, and not because when she looked at your pictures, you didn't look good enough for her. So that she can just blow you off and go to bed happy at night because she didn't have to do anything at all to hurt anyone's feelings.

But when every message is a dull one word thing, then yeah, I completely understand.
 patchjoker13
Joined: 8/24/2014
Msg: 194
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/24/2014 1:29:13 AM
I will just say this. I have never sent a "Hi" message for my initial attempt. I always include at least one aspect of the woman's profile into my first message. It still get very few if any responses. You can't say it's my profile because very few if any ladies bother to look at it. It is very simple, they look at the picture and decide that I don't have the face they find attractive. I do not send messages to women that are super attractive because I know that they are getting bombarded with messages already. I have dated two ladies I met online and they were really the only two women that agreed to a date. I have some success IRL but I seem to only attract girls that are in their 20s, and I am getting too old for that sh*t. The bottom line is, if I can get them to agree to a date or even a few phone conversations, I can usually win them over. The problem with OLD is that it limits the guy's skill sets he needs to draw the women in. If you are not the best looking guy in the world you need to rely on other things to spark the interests of women. A few pictures and paragraphs are usually not enough to overcome the pure physical attraction barrier. This is especially true because the guys are usually the chasers and they have to bring something to the table that sets them apart from the others. The ladies then usually sit back and pick the one that most interests them. I would bet my whole pay check that if I used a pictures of a classically handsome man and sent out "Hi" messages, I would get some responses. This is just that way it is. Anyone who cannot understand that is just being delusional.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 195
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/24/2014 8:36:57 AM

The problem with OLD is that it limits the guy's skill sets he needs to draw the women in. If you are not the best looking guy in the world you need to rely on other things to spark the interests of women. A few pictures and paragraphs are usually not enough to overcome the pure physical attraction barrier.


Another guy who is in the right track. And your concerns in terms of the weaknesses of OLD are well founded.

I am not photogenic at all, and I realized that when I smiled, I looked like a freaking chipmunk. So little by little all my photos were rather serious, or when I took some photo with my brother and I had a pleasant smile, I used that photo. So it's an uphill battle in that area. Also, be selective in what you put on your profile. Do not be the Jack of all Trades. Include things that FILTER the type of girl that simply would waste your time. I used to indicate that women with very poorly written or very short profiles not to contact me. Why? Because they are boring and eventually all they will want if for me to be their monkey and make them laugh. So you use attitude, but not negative attitude.

The other thing. You are not sending emails to the more attractive women because you have already assumed they will not be interested in you. Four very attractive women that I know through facebook, their boyfriends look just like you. NOT HOT, but average. Like Normal dudes. So I would say, pursue them. In the end, the women that I ended up going out with had to pass a test of being intelligent and attractive to me. I never had to settle for less. But remember, the most important thing is personality.
 TuMuchFun
Joined: 9/29/2008
Msg: 196
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To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/24/2014 9:03:17 AM

I will just say this. I have never sent a "Hi" message for my initial attempt. I always include at least one aspect of the woman's profile into my first message. It still get very few if any responses. You can't say it's my profile because very few if any ladies bother to look at it.


First off you can look at a profile without the person knowing so don't assume because they don't appear in your "viewed me" they did not look...(BTW women are notorious for is because they don't want to seem interested before they are because guys will be on a "view" like white on rice.) But more importantly people who smoke cut down their responses to their generic emails by probably 80% because only about 16% of women smoke and I'm sure that number drops even more the older the women get. So when people say they get very few responses chances are they are emailing 80% of people who do not smoke. And those that smoke are probably one of the biggest turn-offs for daters who do not smoke. I bet you short generic messages to only those that smoke would generate a far better response rate, especially when you link it with other common interests you have.

I would never send a short generic message to those that love to eat at 5 star restaurants, stay at the Four Seasons, travel the world bla bla bla because my profile screamed "simple life." But if I did I would sure not say "no one replys" because I'm sending the to people that are polar opposite of me...
 patchjoker13
Joined: 8/24/2014
Msg: 197
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/24/2014 10:37:21 AM
^^^^^^^^^^
Tumuchfun, you statements in theory sound good but they simply are not true. I have used different versions of profiles, some of them with smoking and some without and the response rate was about the same. I send messages to women who smoke and those who do not and the response rate is still about the same. It is true that women can look at profiles without guys knowing but most women will not bother to waist their time if they don't have that initial interest. And again, if I used a "hot guy" picture I would get responses even if I put smoker in the profile. There are plenty of guys here on this forum who get a poor response rate and they are non-smokers We are not going to even get into the fact that many of the female profiles mention very little and use the old "if you want to know, just ask" approach. The bottom line is, if you are not attractive to the woman she will find reasons to not respond to your message no matter what. For a lot of guys who are not the most attractive, OLD can be a brutal place.
 Supersoulson
Joined: 10/21/2014
Msg: 198
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/24/2014 10:43:31 AM

For a lot of guys who are not the most attractive, OLD can be a brutal place.


Yup, or as I like to put it " a daily kick in the NUTS "
 Iam_RFSF2014
Joined: 9/4/2014
Msg: 199
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/24/2014 10:50:00 AM
If it is a truly WRONG fit though, at what point would it make sense to just try something else?

Or at least not do this anymore?

Even when I've been un-involved, I've gone through periods of taking breaks from OLD because I wasn't getting the results I had hoped and I'd get sort of burnt out. But I have come back because, in general, I've had enough good to balance out the bad.

But if it's seriously like a kick in the NUTS? A brutal place? Why continue? There has to be other ways to meet people - after all, coupling happened long before the internet existed.
 Supersoulson
Joined: 10/21/2014
Msg: 200
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/24/2014 11:04:34 AM

But if it's seriously like a kick in the NUTS? A brutal place? Why continue? There has to be other ways to meet people - after all, coupling happened long before the internet existed.


Every woman I’ve ever ended up in a relationship I either met at work or through friends.
I’ve never been the type to approach a complete stranger in public and I know I would suck at it . I would feel nervous , she would sense it and so it wouldn’t work . You have to have game, be SMOOOOOOTH to pull that off.

So, to answer your q why continue ?

The same reason I buy lottery tickets : maybe I’ll get lucky one day and my type of woman will either respond to my msg or send me one herself.

But I know one thing for sure :

I have to find something in the real world like a meet up group where I could possibly meet someone in a natural way vs a meat market bar/pub.

The reason I was successful meeting women at work was I was in a comfortable environment, not hitting on them - just gradually, comfortably getting to know them and when the chemistry was noticed it went from there vs a bar where you feel pressure to be James Bond.

Of course, I was also younger back then…..a LOT younger……yikes !
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