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 NumbersMan123
Joined: 9/16/2014
Msg: 46
How important are looks to guys????Page 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

Of course there is a short man complex I have seen it often enough



not true. you have not seen it. i can say with every authority there is no such thing as short man syndrome or complex.

first let me say that as a Harvard grad with a PhD in the in the field i can say for certain what you are experiencing and what you remember is selective memory and projection.

we remember things that are slightly out of the ordinary, ie the last minute win in a sports contest, the short man fighting the big man, the short man coming into the meeting and exercising his authority or his know how. we don't remember the two 6 footers fighting, the ho hum win of a sports team blowout, the regular sized man screwing up a brain storming conference, ect.

these can be chalked up to jealousy, envy, projection and other ordinary everyday happenings.

i just have had patients come to me who were very short (5'2-5'6) who said they had to fight because tall men were picking on them. i've had 6'2-6'5 patients complain they had to fight because people want to prove something.

i can go on and on. what it boils down to is this: EVERYONE of ALL HEIGHTS experiences everything and reacts in different ways. my brother is in the profession and we have discussed this in depth.

there is NO short man syndrome just as there is no heavy woman syndrome or interracial syndrome
(once you go black.....etc)

you just happen to remember and project this on short men to appear wise or to satisfy for your own pathology.
 Cdan1957
Joined: 9/17/2013
Msg: 47
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How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/3/2014 9:56:55 AM
not true. you have not seen it. i can say with every authority there is no such thing as short man syndrome or complex.


Isn't there differing opinions regarding this? Wasn't there a study done 5 years or so ago that stated that there was proof for the "short man syndrome" A study by a Dr Buunk (Yes Buunk! ) So in reality not every authority agrees with you. I also read an article written around the same time that stated there was no such syndrome. I would tend to believe there really isn't any such syndrome but always interested in all points of view.
 TLC200
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 48
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/3/2014 11:00:17 AM
message 38


So you do not feel that shorter men are at a disadvantage? Have you followed this argument that some people here post has the reason for their failure to find or date women. What would you answer them?


shorter men like myself (5'4) are at a disadvantage in that they are limited to women a couple of inches shorter than themselves usually because of high heels or maybe the protective thing in their head.
this does NOT mean that a short man cannot do well in dating as you witnessed yourself InnerGorilla when that beautiful young woman (sun and cinnamon) half my age favorited me and wanted to talk to me online . though I cannot prove it I have always done well in the dating world for various reasons one of which I believe is that I am a good dancer. in 2014 I have dated 23 to 74 years old.

let me ask you short men syndrome believers what you would make of this actual scenario:
I was golfing with the VP of the company and he drove a long one off the tee and turned to me and the other 2 guys and said "I got it all. beat that!" the VP was 6"7
what if a short man had said the same thing? alarm bells go off in your head SHORT MAN SYNDROME!!!

living in an old steel mill town near Youngstown, Ohio I've seen lots of fights and other stuff. most have been between guys about the same height. I've been to strategy meetings where tall guys and short guys have tried to take over the meeting or have their ideas accepted. I guess what i'm trying to say is the same thing the doctor (Numbers) said 3 messages back. everyone does stuff not just short guys-EVERYONE.

they do it for all kinds of reasons not just because he's short.
 rftv1020
Joined: 5/13/2014
Msg: 49
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/3/2014 12:16:33 PM
Short man syndrome my butt. If that were true all short guys would be single and virgins. It is an excuse.

My old tombstone buddy was a short Greek guy. When we would go out together one of two things would happen. He would get me in a bar fight or he would take the hot girl home. Sometimes both. It may reduce ones chances online but in real life one has the opportunity to be a total person.. Personality, self confidence, looks and communication skills. Act defeated and become defeated. If anyone is constantly being rejected it is more then height alone.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 50
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/6/2014 7:03:20 AM

Short man syndrome my butt. If that were true all short guys would be single and virgins. It is an excuse.


I think many guys attach their insecurity to a particular factor. To some is the hight, to others is whether they are bawl or not, and others is the size of their wanka. it creates a comfort zone of inaction. In the end they are happier with their excuse, than with the fear of trying something new and failing.

What many men need to to is to understand that failure is a process not an end result. The scientist goes to his lab to fail most of the time. He tries this and that and the other, until one theory eventually works. He does not give up on the first try. The athlete goes to batting practice and fails most of the time, until he gets better and his average increases. Still a guy that fails 70 percent of the time, can end up with multi million dollar contracts.
 Cdan1957
Joined: 9/17/2013
Msg: 51
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How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/6/2014 7:59:50 AM
He would get me in a bar fight or he would take the hot girl home.
...Well that pretty much supports the theory. The theory describes how they act, by being overly aggressive to compensate for their lack of height. As I said before I don't buy it. A historical point of reference for this has always been Napolean which as it turns out was really about 5'7"or 5'8" which at that time would be of average height. When one of the main points of proof tends to be factually incorrect it tends to discredit the theory.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 52
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/6/2014 9:27:56 AM
There is, of course, another theory, that Napoleon was described as being short by the enemies who wanted to discount him, ad hominem. sometimes, history is written by the survivors :)

are there people who compensate for a lack of size? sure. Good slander, like good lies, begin with a kernel of truth and exist from there. If you must judge a stranger quickly, does playing the odds pay off? sometimes, yes.
 ArthurKingofTheBritons
Joined: 6/5/2014
Msg: 53
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/8/2014 5:12:34 PM
Looks tend to be very important, but personality CAN in fact count for a lot... Just not in the way that people expect it to.

E.g. Sofia Coppola is very charismatic, she is older now, but circa Godfather 3, she would certainly make my list. The other 3, I just don't appreciate in their craft or appearance, thus no. If Joni Mitchell, were Janis Joplin however, then hell yeah, that woman could wail.

As for your, "hot," list, no.

Now, here is what I mean by the first remark: When a person is naturally unattractive, it is disgusting to hold it against them. If however (and please, don't kill me, the minute obesity is brought up, the big guns come out :/), a woman is simply unattractive because of sheer lack of will power, insofar as weight problems, then I'm sorry, that is a PERSONALITY FLAW.

This is not always the case, nor do I claim that it is, not all fat people are lazy, just like not all skinny people work out, but I once took a girl to a diner for a breakfast date and she must have eaten 3,200 calories. We were there for HOURS after I'd finished so that she could finish this massive meal that she eventually did not have the physical fortitude to eat at any kind of human pace. She then proceeded to crash on my couch for the next 4 days, ate her bodyweight in food from my fridge and slept on my couch even after I told her I was not comfortable with her staying there. Until I insisted that she leave, she did not even exit my apartment.

That all being said, she had some very redeeming personality traits, but the sheer indifference to her physical condition made her exponentially more unattractive.

I am totally down with imperfect girls, but that only applies if they do not consciously choose to be complacent and content in their own imperfection.

This is why the Janis Joplin's of the world are so damn amazing to me. She was a very plain looking person who was teased incessantly and had to leave home forever to leave as much hurt as she could behind, but whatever pain she couldn't shed, she turned into something incredible that left an indelible mark on the world of art and music.
 ArthurKingofTheBritons
Joined: 6/5/2014
Msg: 54
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/8/2014 5:13:58 PM
I don't think looks are just a male inclination, by the way. A lot of my less attractive male friends have much more going for them personality-wise than my attractive ones, but guess who goes home with the girl?
 wooweewoo13
Joined: 7/7/2013
Msg: 55
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/14/2014 3:21:23 AM
ha...looking at the younger woman now and comparing to what I was used to looking at during my younger yrs....theres a BIG difference!.....to much put on outer than inner.....WAY to much!......Ive talked to some who would of knocked em dead in the looks dept. but lack in other assets.....short skirts,low tops,and the media hype of stars who set trnds because they get payed for showing these things.....Im def no prude but think there should be some imagination while looking at the other person wether a man or woman...and whats up with these woman who let their pysic hang out,as in all their bulges.....never can figure it out!
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 56
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/14/2014 5:37:59 AM

I don't think looks are just a male inclination, by the way. A lot of my less attractive male friends have much more going for them personality-wise than my attractive ones, but guess who goes home with the girl?

Most of us at a young age went for the hot guys - but soon learned to look beyond that and see what ELSE they had going for them. A decent amount of them either didn't have anything or didn't develop anything and put all their money on their looks. Now we know to follow our attraction AND THEN then see if there's more to the package we're following if we're going to consider someone as a serious prospect.

Of course there are always the boy toys, but that's for another thread.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 57
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/14/2014 7:17:26 AM

Most of us at a young age went for the hot guys - but soon learned to look beyond that and see what ELSE they had going for them. A decent amount of them either didn't have anything or didn't develop anything and put all their money on their looks. Now we know to follow our attraction AND THEN then see if there's more to the package we're following if we're going to consider someone as a serious prospect.


This statement is at the heart of the argument why AVERAGE guys can, and often get the hot girl. Why? Because while girls like good looks, they also like a mans virility, confidence and personality. And they know that the good looking guys tend to be narcissistic, self centered and they stray a lot, and that gets old.
 Erin_Cat
Joined: 9/4/2014
Msg: 58
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How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/14/2014 8:49:45 AM
Sometimes the irony is, though, that the better-looking the guy the LESS likely he is to stray...or go for looks himself! It gets "old hat" for them, especially the ones who have been used to the attention literally their whole lives. Hot girls are a dime a dozen to them and got old for them in college or high school. They reach the point that something about a female has to intrigue them. That becomes the deciding factor: is there something intriguing about this woman? Think of Brad Pitt and George Clooney.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 59
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/14/2014 8:56:22 AM
"Most of us at a young age went for the hot guys"

I'm going to tweak that sentence a little bit, and replace "at a young age" with "when we were immature". There are certainly older women, still dressing immaturely, going after the hot-pots. And there are immature men chasing the immaturely-dressed women, hoping to get "soma-dat".

Immature people go for the superficial, and unfortunately, age doesn't create maturity. I've known a few hotties who got burned by the superficial hottie, and continue to chase, thinking that's all that life has to offer, so keep going for the low-hanging fruit. and that belief isn't just about getting laid either, but in chasing jobs, houses, etc.

we tend to go after someone who offers what we offer. so, we have to offer a lot, in order to find "a lot" to be attractive, over the superficial. Otherwise, it might be, "I can get a girl-next-door type like Jenifer Aniston, but I can also get an Angela Jolie type, who makes ME look hotter."
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 60
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/14/2014 9:05:01 AM

But, I have the "ugly girl complex" as I did not become beautiful until later in life and had to go through my high school and college years as unattractive. I am still scarred and don't know if I will ever be fully healed.

I can't sympathize here, sorry - some of us never became anything but older versions of what we were. Caterpillars. Enjoy the butterfly stage.

This statement is at the heart of the argument why AVERAGE guys can, and often get the hot girl. Why? Because while girls like good looks, they also like a mans virility, confidence and personality. And they know that the good looking guys tend to be narcissistic, self centered and they stray a lot, and that gets old.

I don't know what the hot girls do...I can't speak for them but I know what my friends and I did.

Don't get me wrong, we still go for hot (to us) guys, we just look for more than that one trait. Attraction will always be part of the process of dating. It's not the most important thing in the long run, but it is what begins the process.
 TrustInKarma
Joined: 2/14/2014
Msg: 61
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/14/2014 9:04:10 PM

Sometimes the irony is, though, that the better-looking the guy the LESS likely he is to stray...or go for looks himself! It gets "old hat" for them, especially the ones who have been used to the attention literally their whole lives. Hot girls are a dime a dozen to them and got old for them in college or high school. They reach the point that something about a female has to intrigue them. That becomes the deciding factor: is there something intriguing about this woman? Think of Brad Pitt and George Clooney.


Thank you! That has been my experience as well. One of the guys I was involved with was a former model (only three years before I met him). He was by far the most gorgeous, perfect looking guy I had ever been with. Yet he was so sweet, humble, and he was into me! REALLY into me, and while he did find me attractive, I'm certain that I was definitely not the best looking woman he had ever been with. In fact, I know for sure I was the OLDEST woman he had ever been with, but we had a great connection and fell hard for each other after our first meet. He even broke up with his much younger, attractive girlfriend (who I didn't know about when we first met) after I told him he had to pick either me or her. So yes, looks are important, but a true connection meant more to him.
 basilisk123
Joined: 12/17/2011
Msg: 62
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How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/15/2014 4:16:59 AM
"Sometimes the irony is, though, that the better-looking the guy the LESS likely he is to stray...or go for looks himself! It gets "old hat" for them, especially the ones who have been used to the attention literally their whole lives. Hot girls are a dime a dozen to them and got old for them in college or high school. They reach the point that something about a female has to intrigue them. That becomes the deciding factor: is there something intriguing about this woman? Think of Brad Pitt and George Clooney."-Erin cat

Yaaa, I'm gonna call bullshit on this. Those hot guys that do not stray would still be the same if they were average or lesser looking. The difference is not their looks, but their character and integrity. BTW, Brad Pitt was a cheater and George Clooney got around.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 63
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/15/2014 8:11:40 AM

Yet he was so sweet, humble, and he was into me! REALLY into me, and while he did find me attractive, I'm certain that I was definitely not the best looking woman he had ever been with.


Most very good looking guys that I know, are habitual cheaters. The only exemption is this one bike buddy of mine. The guy is very hot. To the point that we would include him when we used to go to clubs and bars. The guy sucked at conversation with chics, but it worked great for us, because he would attract the girls, and after five minutes of talking, they were tired of him and we would start talking to them.

Interestingly enough, he met at some conference a school teacher. She was very cute, attractive, but not hot. They dated long distance for a year. He never cheated on her during that time. Then they got married and now have two incredible children.

However he has been the exception, not the norm.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 64
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/15/2014 10:18:02 AM
Hot or well 'Made' men have plenty of confidence and can afford to be 'humble' because the initial attraction factor is tilted hopelessly in their favor. They don't appear to cheat because they don't HAVE to - they don't need to seek out other women -- when they are getting approached all the time. It takes no effort to turn down lots of offers - just like it takes them no effort to find another. This isn't any different for extremely attractive women. If they want attention, all they have to do is go out in public and it comes TO them.

The anger, desperation, wandering eyes and 'twitchiness' factor seen in a lot of ordinary-looking people that makes dating them uncomfortable is because it takes a great deal MORE effort to capture someone's attention and keep it. If they are seeking out another, it's a lot more obvious because they have to WORK at straying to find another. Hot peopel can get a date any time they want and don't consider it a 'cheat' because they are not committing to anyone in particular.

Once people get past those first few dates and find a comfort zone, a lot of that stress goes away, and their confidence (and inner attractiveness) really shows, but let's face it - people always want that confidence INSTANTLY and can't stand being nervous or hesitant. It's a rough and stressful circle to constantly maintain "confidence" and still handle rejection multiple times. Attractiveness trumps a lot of that crap - and totally blinds people to what stressors they may be witnessing.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 65
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/15/2014 12:40:53 PM

What looks do show is that it's very subjective. White people have a very different idea of what is attractive but they have the power to ram their beauty standards down everyone's throat.


Perhaps that is your perception in England. However in the United States as well as places like South America and Brazil you will find that beauty includes a multitude of races and definitions. For instance right now in the US there's an obsession with b u tts through the media. Also in the past the looks of Michael Jordan and a plethora of basketball players we used as symbols of beauty. Take for instance the looks or Jennifer Lopez, nicki Minaj dominating the market, to where even a white girl like Iggy Azalea mimics more in derriere and personality African American culture that White Bread puritanical mores.

In South America the ultimate beauty symbol is the Morena. It's a term of endearment to symbolize the ultimate beauty as well as the ultimate sexuality.

So I am sorry that is your experience in England. Media tastes and popular tastes are an ever shifting model that has become much more inclusive.
 StarClassic
Joined: 9/29/2014
Msg: 66
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/20/2014 4:48:06 AM
(quote)The classic example is the short guy with too much attitude in a bar, trying to find any excuse to pick a fight with a tall guy. In all the years I've gone to bars, I've never had anyone tall try to start a fight with me. But lot's of short guys. And for us tall guys, it's a no-win situation. We beat the short guy, we look bad, we get beaten by the short guy we look bad...(quote)

Holy crap, that has me written all over it. I stand 6'2" and my weight, 144 +- just adds to the illusion of height. I quit going to clubs/bars because of the drunken, testosterone pumped Cro-Magnons simply because I'm an ***hole magnet.

Back to the OP's Q.
I grudgingly hold my hand up. I'm guilty of letting physical appearance guide whether or not I find a woman attractive, and whether or not I approach her. I'd be on Joan Jet like flies on poop before I'd give Flo a second glance.


I had it all typed out, but on second thought, I'll not go into why.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 67
How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/20/2014 4:55:24 AM

I stand 6'2" and my weight, 144 +- just adds to the illusion of height. I quit going to clubs/bars because of the drunken, testosterone pumped Cro-Magnons simply because I'm an ***hole magnet.

This is interesting...and working in bars and clubs most of my life I never really noticed this, but I can remember times I saw it happen. I'll keep an eye out for this in the future in nightspots.

Back to the OP's Q.
I grudgingly hold my hand up. I'm guilty of letting physical appearance guide whether or not I find a woman attractive, and whether or not I approach her. I'd be on Joan Jet like flies on poop before I'd give Flo a second glance.

I had it all typed out, but on second thought, I'll not go into why.

You don't need to. You have a right to like what you like and want to date what you prefer. No explanations needed. We all have that right to not date who we aren't attracted to. With that right comes a certain outcome and as long as we can accept that outcome no one can say you're wrong.
 basilisk123
Joined: 12/17/2011
Msg: 68
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How important are looks to guys????
Posted: 10/20/2014 5:10:42 AM
"...You have a right to like what you like and want to date what you prefer. No explanations needed. We all have that right to not date who we aren't attracted to. With that right comes a certain outcome and as long as we can accept that outcome no one can say you're wrong."-womaninprogress

womaninprogress, well said. It took me a very long time to learn this exact lesson. As soon as people realize and accept this lesson, they will find more peace.
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