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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.      Home login  
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 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 83
The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.Page 5 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Igor,I think you missed your calling,you should have been a priest or a monk.

@Vicki
I agree that the kids should be kept out of it.Looking back on my own parents,there were signs going back six or seven years before one night she put the chain on the door and my father came in through my window late at night,it was then that the seriousness of the situation hit home,and it was disturbing.
 benartflick
Joined: 3/8/2012
Msg: 84
The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.
Posted: 10/13/2014 5:27:59 AM
"simply stating his opinion as he usually does...with clarity."

Maybe to you, Flaneur.

Rude name calling without any justification isn't stating an opinion.

Is that the way men in their 60's act in Canada?

I was responding to his, "You have reading comprehension problems" to another member.

You have no problem with his bad manners or members insulting other members without any cause, obviously.

When an adult writes the following for no apparent reason, I think he's just looking for trouble: "...you were another dangerous fan who is deluded by having seen her in movies, into thinking you have a relationship with her."
 moonbeamlover
Joined: 5/3/2014
Msg: 85
The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.
Posted: 10/13/2014 6:55:22 AM

forums is correct it can be very complicated when or if to leave, but counseling both for yourself and your kids can help you get clarity on what you need to do in those danger situations that are complicated. There are options sometimes that can be learned if we get outside information rather than just trying to gut out a situation that is not only damaging, but potentially dangerous.


I think your right moonbeam. I did have brief counselling sessions once my ex had left, it was given with regard to one of my childrens needs rather than the break up of my marriage but inevitably difficulties with my ex were discussed. The strategies of how to manage him were explored and they did work.


I am glad that it helped you all. I am sorry that things were rough for you.




This whole idea that it's only one person's "problem" and needs to be dealt with individually with nobody else involved except for a priest or shrink or whomever is in the 'confessional' room with them - is a lot of bunk.


To a degree I agree with this. But, I would of gone to counselling, not much point if he wont. I can work on my things, but there is nothing I can do about hes and I cant MAKE him go. Nor can I change the fact that if he did go he would sit there, say all the right things, nod in all the right places, walk out the door and it have no impact whatsoever.


I think maybe the reason for the counselor could be different in the case of the second. The counselor doesn't only work if he goes. The counselor is for YOU to know what is best for you to do; regardless of whether he chooses to gow ith you and work on things or not. You can't change someone else. You can only discover yourself and get clarity about the situation, as well as the best information possible to know how to truly judge the environment impartially. One thing a LOT of people do after a really bad stretch of relationship? They get comfortable with how toxic it is, and don't understand how bad it truly is, until after they are out. You need to get a clear vantage point of what it is truly doing; and if they do the same and want to meet in the middle great. If they don't, there is still a ton of point to you going. In my very humble opinion.




Get EVERYONE in the family involved.


I dont agree with this. I dont believe kids should be involved in issues between the mum and the dad. Partly they have no idea of an adult relationship works, partly because they dont need to know some of the stuff that goes on between the parents. As for anyone else in the family ie in laws ect I definately wouldnt have them involved.


I think what he's saying is not to involve the kids in the specifics of the situation, but people WAY understimate how much damage it does to the kids' emotions, trust and comfort zone living in the middle of a war zone. People think just because they don't say anything in front of the kids that they don't know what's going on. Kids are NOT idiots... they know way more than the adults think they do. If they don't know the particulars but know the people they count on for their emotional foundation are at quiet war with each other or one is crying the other is beligerant, how do they make sense of that? How do they trust everything's going to turn out ok? They feel disloyal, scared, angry if they DO find out particulars, hurt, and they do that in silence while the parents think the child is blissfully unaware. They aren't. And frequently? They don't WANT mom and dad to be ok.. They desperately want one of the parents to leave the other one. Frequently for their own sake as much as the parent they want to rescue themselves.

They need counseling to make sure that they understand THEY are not to blame in any of hwat's going on with the parents (whatever it is; they don't have to know particulars unless they witessed it; which I wonder how many people would cheat if they know how frequently their kids are the ones who bust them; talk about a HORRIBLE role model). they need to understand that they are still special; sometimes adults have issues but they still love the kids and that they can do things to help themselves get structure when the bottom has fallen out of the home environment. People WAY underrate how badly kids get hurt when home is a war zone. Making sure they are ok emotionally and have a voice to talk to a person other than their parents is crucial.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 86
The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.
Posted: 10/13/2014 6:59:19 AM

I'll add to it - anyone who thinks they need to stay 'trapped' in a bad relationship - for the sake of anyone else - kids or otherwise - is a liar. They are lying to THEMSELVES. Honesty may be part of the foundation of any healthy relationship, but it starts with being honest to one's self. Counseling isn't always about working on connecting issues between two people - a lot of it is about self-realization, and showing people how to look past the blinding pile of bullsh*t they've created out of their OWN lives. Why people cheat is pretty obvious - they're not happy with what they've got. What people can't seem to figure out is WHY they are unhappy - because it still gets blamed on the outside world nine times out of ten instead of realizing the common problem.


Wow, Sweet Danimal, this is a great statement. But I believe we all sort of do it. The last five years of my marriage were not great. We should have split at some point. But we didn't. We simply had "Problems." And being that we both believed in Marriage, you try to fix things, then to pretend to try to fix things, then you start to look the other way and say to yourself, oh well. In the mean time the downward spiral continues.

With that said, I also would have kept the high ground as Igor has mentioned. I could not have been able to live with myself if I had been the one that cheated. As it is, my ex spend years and years eaten alive by the remorse and guilt for what she did. I in the other hand, channeled my anger to rebuilt myself, to no longer ignore my own sense of needs. Only to then end up in a relationship with a bipolar that only cared about HER needs, and only her needs counted.
 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 87
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History
The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.
Posted: 10/13/2014 7:58:11 AM
Benartflick

I don't think you are grasping what I said in my previous post. I did not say that I agree with what or how Igor represented himself in this thread. I said he was clear about his opinion and that he has a right to that point of view.

My issue with you is that in a previous thread, you initiated and maintained a discourse that was clearly polarizing among the forum members. The content of your thread was deemed by some members as 'humorous' and others felt it was demeaning and uncouth. Regardless, you took the liberty to express your point of view.... Igor.... whether you like or dislike what he says is also entitled to the right to his opinion. As someone once said on the forum, if you dish it out...you should be able to take it.

Furthermore, it is not appropriate to highjack an issue you have with a forum member from a previous thread into this OP's thread.


Is that the way men in their 60's act in Canada? ......
You have no problem with his bad manners or members insulting other members without any cause, obviously.


I'm perplexed by this. I think Igor is American, I have no idea how all men in their 60's act in Canada.
I've come to understand, having participated in the forum for the last couple of years that they way people think and act on the forum does not represent the social circle I interact with. On one level, that seems to be what is interesting about the forum. Your interpretation of Igor's discourse is rude mine is direct. Your view of humour is one of quick repartee my view of the same type of humour is demeaning and uncouth. Luckily we live in 3 countries that respect the right to a point of view...even if we don't like it.

Happy Thanksgiving!
 forums48380
Joined: 2/10/2013
Msg: 88
The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.
Posted: 10/13/2014 8:17:45 AM
Igor-
My reading comprehension is fine, and so is my ability to think and act. Judging by your decisions, I'd say you are the one who has it backwards.
If you want to maintain fidelity to someone who doesn't care about you and deprives you, knock yourself out.
I will maintain fidelity to myself, thank you very much and by my higher standards, I am not a cheater. Maybe in your distorted value system I'm a cheater, but not in my value system.
And I feel no need to further argue with the peanut gallery here but I do, sometimes, enjoy reading other people's thoughts, even though most of them aren't worth the pixels they're printed on.
 benartflick
Joined: 3/8/2012
Msg: 89
The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.
Posted: 10/13/2014 9:08:13 AM
Flaneur, you don't understand what I wrote.

My issues is adults acting like rude children. Looking for trouble.

I have absolutely no problem with any opinion. I do with NAME CALLING and insults for no reason.

You don't see that - that's okay.

I left the other thread after cheap shots from a noticeable man hater and a moron who has in his bio he'll meet a date only at a place with an escape exit in case you're crazy. I started to respond but realized they had mental issues. You didn't notice that (even after reading what they wrote) - that's fine.

I noticed Igor's rude comment in this thread. I clicked on his history and THEN noticed his mindless attack in the other thread. Rude there and rude in this thread - I responded to his rudeness (not rude to you) not his opinion.

Why is that hard for you to understand?

"Your interpretation of Igor's discourse is rude mine is direct."

Please explain his dangerous and deluded fan comments. You thought it was direct.

You agree it's insulting - right? Do you mean it was a direct insult or what he said was true?

Don't you think, on the discussion boards here, there should be a basis for insults?

What in your mind did I do that would make anyone with common sense think I was dangerous and deluded?

Ya got the easy part done - agreeing with the insults. The difficult part is stating why you believe it's so. Quite common on discussion boards - here and elsewhere.

Oh, you agree Igor's 'you have a reading comprehension problem isn't rude and hostile' - right?


(One thing you didn't consider. I DID NOT start the conversation with the actress. We were annoying her. We glanced at her as she approached the pastry and returned to our conversation. When she made a comment about the pastry, we stopped talking and looked at her. Then she said, "You two look kind of depressed." If she looked like the gorgeous woman I saw on the big screen, maybe, perhaps, I might have stared at her in awe. I wasn't impressed and responded with a big smile and the first thing that came to mind. It wasn't funny to you, fine. So I deserve a stern lecture from people like you and Igor? Somehow you think I was insulting and Igor wasn't? Right? You know what you're writing about.)
 Bebedeleau
Joined: 2/25/2013
Msg: 90
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The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.
Posted: 10/13/2014 9:24:08 AM
I'm going to both agree and disagree with Igor and forums both.

Forums, I believe that Igor is correct in saying that people misuse the concept of "needs" as an excuse. You don't "need" to have sex to live and I have seen plenty of examples of people using the "need" excuse. What Maslow is saying, in my interpretation, is that that the lower level 'needs' (in his THEORY) must be met to move on to the next level. They are, just as they appear, building blocks to reach a higher level. You don't "need" his cognitive needs to live, but you do, in his opinion, need to have them to continue up to self actualization.

http://donsnotes.com/mental/hierarchy-of-needs.html If you follow this:

Take for example the 1st level of food. You need it to live. If that "need" is met, you can stay on that level. Let's say that need isn't met well, that you ate horribly all of the time. These factors on the next levels would be negatively affected: 2) your health 3) instability in your health would affect your intimacy 4) instability in your attaining intimacy would affect your 5) confidence. Instability in your confidence would affect your 6) sense of purpose. If the needs on the bottom are met well, it sets up a good base to build on. If there's instability, that base is not a good base to build the other things on (which would result in cracks or crumbling or the solidness of the next things to come).

Sooo.....You don't need sex to live, but according to him, you need it to move to and engage "properly" the next level. It's a physical need at first because you NEED to have sex for families to exist (ok, somewhere down the line, someone had to have sex). It can be interpreted to be a psychological need that is the base of the other psychological needs to come, if that is part of achieving the "needs" of that level.

As Maslow's hierarchy THEORY can be debated and tailored to fit what we want to believe, so can people's individual experiences. Where as Igor can think "I didn't cheat, and I could look myself in the mirror and be proud" (rephrasing, not sure exactly what he said) I can say, yes, I did step out and now I can look myself in the mirror and think "I am loved, wanted, desired and worthy". It depends on the individual circumstances. When I made the decision to look for someone, for those who haven't read it before, it was after 3 years of a non-sexual (which digressed into a lack of physical touch in general) relationship in which I made the CONSCIOUS decision to find someone to fulfill that "need" so that I could STAY AT the second level and be present in the third. It wasn't going to get me any higher, as a matter of fact it froze me there in between those levels. It was just a decision to, in THAT specific way, fulfill that need without making any drastic changes (leave the relationship). As to the other posters 4 reasons, I rejected the other 3 options or they were not feasible (medical issues) and chose the 4th.

I believe there are some RARE cases in which the first three options really aren't the best choice, or they are the selfish choice, and people choose the 4th because of a the sense of self obligation or fear. I believe also, though, that's it's just a 'place holder' until something else happens (eg., separation, divorce) to fulfill that empty "need" space to keep the other things on that level together ... until it eventual crumbles, as it will, because you are, in essence, welding it together with sugar.

I believe that two things can happen once you "mod podge" that second and third level together ... either the slight boost of it will propel you up to the third with the help of something that makes it more substantial and solid or it will just fall apart back into level one.

Edit to add: someone should just start a thread as a place to all the arguing and name calling so all of this isn't spilling out onto other threads, especially one that actually has some substance and someone might actually find helpful to read. Do we really need to sabotage every thread with arguing? I just wasted 20 minutes of my life trying to give my opinion to the DISCUSSION, as well as everyone else who gave theirs, and now, when the mods see the arguing, it will just be deleted. It's discourteous to those who aren't interested in this back and forth attack and defend stuff. This is supposed to be a discussion forum. Yes, it was my choice to 'waste' the 20 minutes, but again, this is supposed to be a discussion forum.
 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 91
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History
The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.
Posted: 10/13/2014 9:31:07 AM
Benartflick:
I have absolutely no problem with any opinion. I do with NAME CALLING and insults for no reason.



Benartflick:
I left the other thread after cheap shots from a noticeable man hater and a moron who has in his bio he'll meet a date only at a place with an escape exit in case you're crazy. I started to respond but realized they had mental issues



enough said!
 benartflick
Joined: 3/8/2012
Msg: 92
The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.
Posted: 10/13/2014 11:43:06 AM
"Enough said."

I agree, Flaneur.

I got involved thinking Igor was insulting you. Now I see he might be right about you. (I still think he was rude to ya - since you think otherwise - I'm sorry I got involved.)

I was right too, knowing you wouldn't, and couldn't, back up your opinion.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 93
The truth is always stranger than fiction. A cheaters motivation.
Posted: 10/13/2014 12:29:15 PM

Do we really need to sabotage every thread with arguing? I just wasted 20 minutes of my life trying to give my opinion to the DISCUSSION, as well as everyone else who gave theirs, and now, when the mods see the arguing, it will just be deleted. It's discourteous to those who aren't interested in this back and forth attack and defend stuff. This is supposed to be a discussion forum. Yes, it was my choice to 'waste' the 20 minutes, but again, this is supposed to be a discussion forum.


I also agree with this statement. Perhaps what I see as the real problem is the EGOS involved and the inability of some to let go. In the past, I have been called by the forumnites on things that I have done or said, or tone of something I have expressed. I have realized that perhaps I should as well have toned it down on that issue, or that my statement was being interpreted as hostile. So, sometimes we need to learn not to have the last word and in many instances even apologize. In this case, I think the best thing to do is for people to just drop it, and bring it back to the issue at hand and all its ramification, particularly how much anger the people afflicted by it had to deal with.

So back to topic.
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