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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 351
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?Page 15 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
even better, Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph returns, and points out how they can't read the New Testament:

"I didn't say stop following my Father's religion. I didn't say replace it with your idea of a religion named after the Greek word for Messiah. I said continue to follow the Jewish faith, just stop being a hypocrite about it, stop focusing on false idols like wealth. Treat the downtrodden like you'd treat Me. Of course religion changes! My Father saw the damage done by the flood and promised never to do it again. I told you the Ten Commandments could be summed up in two. I explained Communion to you. Religion evolves."

He'd be denied, as a radical.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 352
view profile
History
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:50:36 AM
Message 372 ...

When will people understand that gay men or gay women have no interest in "straight" men or "straight" women.

That is completely not true. I know plenty of gay men who target straight men in hopes of converting them.
I write from my experiences and so do others.

I've been on the receiving end of it, myself.
Whatever you say. Maybe the gay person thought you were "bi-sexual" and thought it was worth a try to hit on you? How much time did the gay person spend on you ... trying to convert you?

Just because it's not happening in your little corner of the world doesn't mean it's not occurring elsewhere.
I would say the majority of gays really have no interest in "converting" someone to their "team". They have feelings just like you and me and do not want to lose their love interests any more than a "straight" person does. Think about it ... if you have to "convince" someone to be interested in you and actually "convert" them, do you think they are so stupid that they are not aware that they could easily lose that person back to their original "team"?

I think you're anti-gay and are just trying to convince us that gays are out there desperate to convert others to their "team". All anyone has to say is "I'm not interested" and most anyone (male or female) will leave you alone ... eh?

I think what you wrote though plays totally into the hands of the "X-tians" (and any other anti-gay / homophobe) who would like us all to believe gays go around hitting on "straights" all the time ... gays go around trying to break up "straight" marriages ... gays go around trying to force people to bake them wedding cakes, and will try to force ministers to perform weddings for them.

I don't think it will happen. I think it's just another homophobic thought that anti-gays are trying to project. People who want to celebrate a wedding don't want to do it cast in the shadow of having to force someone to do it.

Message 374 ...
Cotter- no one really cares about the private physical.
Sure ... that's why so many of the homophobes in here are so concerned about where "gays" put their penis. Not all "gays" even have a penis! (FYI "gay" women don't have a penis.) Just goes to show you how narrow-minded these people are.

Message 375 ...
We know what is in store for Straight , White , Christians .
Yeah ... they're all headed for the land of "milk & honey" for one final fvck fest before the planet gets blown to smithereens.
 ThePig0fYourDreams
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 353
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 11:26:52 AM


I think you're anti-gay and are just trying to convince us that gays are out there desperate to convert others to their "team". All anyone has to say is "I'm not interested" and most anyone (male or female) will leave you alone ... eh?


What an asinine assumption on your part. I happen to be friends with some of the gays who have tried to convert me. They are completely unapologetic over their desire to pursue and attempt to convert. I would imagine you are completely oblivious to the fact that there's a genre of porn devoted to this as well, aren't you?


All anyone has to say is "I'm not interested" and most anyone (male or female) will leave you alone ... eh?


No. I have one friend in particular who has been relentless in the 2 years I have known him. He doesn't try to *physically* force himself on me, but expresses his desires endlessly. I am not trying to paint of picture of myself as someone who has been victimized, that's not the case here. I am simply letting you know that you're rather naive about the matter.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 354
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 12:02:15 PM

No. I have one friend in particular who has been relentless in the 2 years I have known him. He doesn't try to *physically* force himself on me, but expresses his desires endlessly. I am not trying to paint of picture of myself as someone who has been victimized, that's not the case here. I am simply letting you know that you're rather naive about the matter.


That would be no different than any heterosexual obnoxious individual (friend) not taking the hint or outright statement that the object of their desires is not interested. It's not something that's a "gay" thing. An obnoxious flirt is an obnoxious flirt. When it happens to be a gay obnoxious flirt, it seems people start to paint with that broad brush thingy.
 ThePig0fYourDreams
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 355
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 12:36:28 PM


That would be no different than any heterosexual obnoxious individual (friend) not taking the hint or outright statement that the object of their desires is not interested. It's not something that's a "gay" thing. An obnoxious flirt is an obnoxious flirt. When it happens to be a gay obnoxious flirt, it seems people start to paint with that broad brush thingy.


I agree completely, I was just responding to her claim that gays *don't* pursue straight people. (as if there's something illogical about it) That's just not true.

It's a matter of "wanting that which retreats from us", which isn't a "gay thing" at all.
 Mummymania
Joined: 6/22/2015
Msg: 356
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 12:47:45 PM
Agree with Pig. Had a Gay guy very interested in me. He knew I was not gay . . . had a serious girlfriend at the time. We did become friends though. I even went with him to a gay bar, but I brought my girlfriend along for company. Gay bars, if you have never been in one, are interesting in themselves. There are a lot of one night stands and random sexual acts in those places . . . all for what it is worth. By the way, I never knew this guy was gay until he admitted the same to me. He was a reserve law enforcement officer, carried the blue light in his car, arrested people. . . the real deal. I just never thought about him being gay . . even when he appeared overly friendly. It was just not on my mind I guess.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 357
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 1:10:27 PM
Oh, I see. Gotcha now, Piggy. My son has the same experience with his gay hair stylist. Being that a gay male finds another male attractive and acts on it, is no different than a heterosexual male or female hitting on someone they find attractive. It absolutely happens - in your and my son's case, you would have to convert to make it a possibility. Heterosexuals only have to acquiesce...lol Other than being a constant flirt with the same individuals, such as yourselves, outside of a "gay community/gathering/circle of friends" there's little way to know if someone they're attracted to is gay as well unless they hit on them. Some have the jam and suffer possible consequences and others just may get lucky. ...and non-gays think they have a dating minefield to maneuver!!

I've been hit on by gay women in so called "straight" establishments myself. I guess if you look approachable as an individual, it doesn't matter your orientation. How else do they establish the fact?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 358
view profile
History
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 1:51:36 PM
Message 380 ...
I happen to be friends with some of the gays who have tried to convert me.
Yes, well now that you've clarified that ... what you're really describing is a gay man obnoxiously flirting with you ... it's not an attempt to "convert" you.

He doesn't try to *physically* force himself on me, but expresses his desires endlessly.
OMG ... GASP! Sounds like he's got a crush on you.

I know dozens of women who live through that on a daily basis. Men tirelessly flirting with them. My daughter can't go out with her girlfriends without getting hit on all night. She and her friends (all married) always go to the same place, and it's always the same guys ... no matter how many times she tells them she's not interested.

Your friend is not trying to "convert" you! However, by going around saying such things, you feed the homophobes' ideas that ALL "gays" are out there desperately hitting on "straight" people trying to convert them. It's just not so.

The homophobes would have us believe that gays are out there hitting on married people and breaking up marriages ... WTF? They're not out there breaking up "straight" marriages ... the only things that can break up any marriage are the two people in the marriage. They alone are responsible for their happiness and ability to stay together. So "straight" marriages are not in jeopardy.

"Pig" ... you're funny! You make me laugh.

Message 384 ...
I've been hit on by gay women in so called "straight" establishments myself.
Likewise here. And again, it's just so easy to tell them I'm not interested. No reason to freak out and interpret it as someone trying to convert me.

I guess if you look approachable as an individual, it doesn't matter your orientation. How else do they establish the fact?
Right.

And just as the men who hit on my daughter simply aren't getting the message, others apparently don't either.

(LMAO ... "Pig" has a guy crushing on him and doesn't know how to handle it. I'll put you in touch with my daughter ... she'll give you a few lessons.)
 robaustralia
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 359
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 2:18:48 PM

Apparently you're confused. So, let me attempt to explain the law so that you might understand.

1) Freedom from religion and freedom of religion mean a pastor, minister, priest can refuse to perform a gay marriage in their church.

2) A county, city, town clerk who denies a gay couple a marriage licence is breaking the law.

3) A minister, pastor, or priest who's day job is county, city, town clerk is breaking the law if they deny a gay couple a marriage licence while performing their day job duties. They can refuse to perform the ceremony in their church.

Simple...does that clear it up?


Apparently you have been hiding under a rock.



In yet another battle for religious freedom in this country, a city in Idaho is acting far more like it is from North Korea or the old Soviet Union. The Washington Times reports:

Coeur d‘Alene, Idaho, city officials have laid down the law to Christian pastors within their community, telling them bluntly via an ordinance that if they refuse to marry homosexuals, they will face jail time and fines.

The dictate comes on the heels of a legal battle with Donald and Evelyn Knapp, ordained ministers who own the Hitching Post wedding chapel in the city, but who oppose gay marriage, The Daily Caller reported.

A federal judge recently ruled that the state’s ban on gay marriage was unconstitutional, while the city of Coeur d‘Alene has an ordinance that prevents discrimination based on sexual preference.

Yes, that’s right – now pastors are being threatened with fines and jail time if they refuse to go against their beliefs and perform “same-sex” marriages. This goes well beyond the assault on Christian businesses by the homosexual bullies. This is a direct frontal assault on Christian churches.

And, this is not an exaggeration or a misunderstanding of the city’s ordinance as the Washington Times explains:

The Alliance Defending Freedom has filed a suit in federal court to stop the city from enforcing the fine and jail sentence, saying in a statement from senior legal counsel Jeremy Tedesco that the government has overstepped its bounds, The Daily Caller reported.

“Many have denied that pastors would ever be forced to perform ceremonies that are completely at odds with their faith, but that’s what is happening here — and it’s happened this quickly,” Mr. Tedersco said, The Daily Caller reported.

But the city sees it differently. As far back as May, city officials were insisting that their ordinance is indeed in line with law.

“If you turn away a gay couple, refuse to provide services for them, then in theory you violated our code, and you’re looking at a potential misdemeanor citation,” said Coeur d‘Alene City Attorney Warren Wilson, to KXLY


What the city attorney and the homosexual radicals are overlooking is the fact that no pastor is required to perform weddings. It is a voluntary ministry of their churches. Now, if a minister put a sign on the church door that said, “No gays allowed”, that would be different. But, the truth is that almost all churches welcome sinners regardless of their past. The mission of the Christian Church is to bring the lost to salvation.

But, having said that, it must also be understood that churches set their own requirements for membership, leadership, and employee qualifications. It is their undisputed right to do so. No outside group or government has the right to dictate beliefs to any church. That is an absolutely clear violation of the 1st Amendment.

In churches where weddings are performed, they are always at the pastor’s and other leadership’s discretion. A pastor can, and does, refuse to marry couples for numbers of reasons.

It goes far beyond what is “legal.” For example, a pastor may refuse to marry a couple in the church if one of the pair is not a believer. A pastor may refuse to marry a couple that are perceived to be too immature.


A pastor may refuse to marry a couple in the church if they are not of the same faith as the church. All of these reasons are legitimate and legal.
For this city council to believe it has the right to dictate who it is pastors must marry goes beyond any authority any government in the United States has.

And, simply by creating an artificial category of people within a community does not give them any more rights than anyone else. Yet, this is exactly the goal of radical homosexual movement. It is not just acceptance, it is dominance in society they are pushing for with their extremist agenda


federalist.com
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 360
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 2:28:45 PM

Apparently you have been hiding under a rock.


ROFLMAO....you actually need to look at what you post...the article is from MAY 5 2015...a month and a half before the SC ruling...perhaps you should stick to Australia governmental stuff....?
 Mummymania
Joined: 6/22/2015
Msg: 361
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 2:32:34 PM
^^^^ That some rogue town might enact an ordinance to punish those who refuse to marry gay couples is irrelevant unless such an ordinance is upheld as constitutional . .. which it won't be. Towns are filled with simple folk and simple lawyers who enact ordinances without having the foggiest notion of whether they will pass State, Federal or Constitutional muster. I am sure you could find similar ordinances in other towns. No way they will be enforced once they get to a Federal or even State Appellate level.


ROFLMAO....you actually need to look at what you post...the article is from MAY 5 2015...a month and a half before the SC ruling...perhaps you should stick to Australia governmental stuff....?


You didn't read what he posted. This ordinance would presumably be SUPPORTED by the recent Scotus opinion.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 362
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 2:42:50 PM

Apparently you have been hiding under a rock.

And... apparently... you are just too fvcking stupid to understand what you read...

From your article...

who own the Hitching Post wedding chapel in the city

It ISN'T a church... It's a public "wedding for hire" service... You know... like the kind that dot Vegas...

Of course he isn't allowed to discriminate... any more than the photo store or restaurant are... BECAUSE THEY HOLD OUT A SERVICE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC... and... THEY AREN'T A CHURCH...

But I guess understanding that requires a brain bigger than a walnut... and an IQ higher than a piece of granite...
 ThePig0fYourDreams
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 363
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 2:55:53 PM

Yes, well now that you've clarified that ... what you're really describing is a gay man obnoxiously flirting with you ... it's not an attempt to "convert" you.


No, he tries his damnedest to get me to give in. He's told me several times I should feel no shame in at least experimenting and "testing the waters". If that's not an attempt at conversion, I don't know what is.

The bottom line is, this all started with your claim that gays have no interest in straight people. I have simply disputed this claim. Nothing more. I live in a rather progressive city where gays *do* openly pursue straight people. Most of the time, the straight people laugh it off, but I have seen a few scuffles occur as a result.


LMAO ... "Pig" has a guy crushing on him and doesn't know how to handle it.


I have done nothing other than tell him I am and always will be straight, yet you believe there's a better way of handling it?
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 364
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 2:57:18 PM
Joe... are you really in education? The way you curse people on here is appalling.
Why can't you be civil?


Do you know the definition of chapel?

They are ordained ministers.



This is a very real breech of the Constitution.
We have a right to our religions without government interference. Period.
 Mummymania
Joined: 6/22/2015
Msg: 365
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:05:05 PM
^^^ interesting question Joe. It is true that being gay is considered a protected class. But these are private Christians who probably have an inherent right to decline to marry people they don't want to marry. There are alternatives, like public officials or those who will marry them. Seems to me telling a Christian that he MUST marry a gay couple if he believes it against his religion, is in fact a violation of that Christian's constitutional rights to practice his religion as he chooses. Its not the same as a restaurant being forced to serve a gay couple or a business being forced to hire gay people. People need to eat and they need jobs. Getting married, on the other hand, can always be done by public officials . . who cannot refuse to do so. I don't believe an orthodox rabbi has any obligation to marry a jew and a non-Jew, but under your theory he would. I don't think that's right and I am sure there are or will be court cases on these issues.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 366
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:05:25 PM

It's a public "wedding for hire" service... You know... like the kind that dot Vegas...


Joe, I have to admit it...I didn't read the posters link...so let me add to my little list so that those that are fvcking stupid might understand:

4) If you are a public concern.....you mus comply with the law...Joe and John go to the local 1 minute marriage "chapel"...sorry, no religious privilege...you hold yourself out to the general public for profit!!!
 Mummymania
Joined: 6/22/2015
Msg: 367
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:14:27 PM

If you are a public concern.....you mus comply with the law...Joe and John go to the local 1 minute marriage "chapel"...sorry, no religious privilege...you hold yourself out to the general public for profit!!!


^^^ You have any authority for this position, or is this simply the way you think it is. I.e, can you cite a Court Case, preferably Federal Appellate Level, that says this is so in this context? Seriously, I am very curious about this.

I have answered my own question. And that is, the answer depends on the State, although this MAY change with the Scotus decision, but this is a different issue.:

LATTA v. OTTER, 771 F.3d 456 (9th Cir. 10-7-2014):

See, e.g., Elane Photography, LLC v. Willock, 284 P.3d 428
(N.M.App.2012) (holding that a wedding photographer was liable for
discrimination against a same-sex couple under state public accommodations
law, and that this law did not violate the First Amendment), cert. denied,
___ U.S. ___, 134 S.Ct. 1787, 188 L.Ed.2d 757 (2014). Nevada law currently
prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation in public
accommodations, while Idaho law does not. Nev.Rev.Stat. § 651.050(3),
651.070; Dan Popkey, Idaho doesn't protect gays from discrimination, but
Otter says that does not make the state antigay, Idaho Statesman (Feb. 23,
2014).
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 368
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:17:35 PM

Joe... are you really in education?

Yes...

The way you curse people on here is appalling.
Why can't you be civil?

Because some people deliberately refuse to act intelligently... By any standard, that is the definition of "fvcking stupid"...

Do you know the definition of chapel?

Yes... Do you know what is legally required to be a church with all the usual religious exemptions...?

Hint: The "Chapel o' Love"... with it's Elvis-impersonating minister... isn't it... Neither is the "Hitching Post Wedding Chapel"...

They are ordained ministers.

So...? I am too... What do you think that means...?

This is a very real breech of the Constitution.

No, it isn't... because they are a business... not a church...

You know... with that last post... you're treading dangerously close to... deliberately refusing to act intelligently...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 369
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:27:51 PM

can you cite a Court Case, preferably Federal Appellate Level, that says this is so in this context? Seriously, I am very curious about this.


Yes, I can...but it's not at the appellate level...it's at the SC level...it's called "The Civil Rights Act of 1964"....but, let me see if anyone has common sense...

Your black and you go into my public store and I deny you services because you are black...Legal???YES!

You buy gas at my gas station and I deny you access to my public bathroom because you are black...Legal???YES!!!

And on and on and on...
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 370
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:28:29 PM

Its not the same as a restaurant being forced to serve a gay couple

Yes it is... it is exactly the same thing... they are holding out a public offering of a service... they are as bound to not discriminate as the restaurant is... every bit as much...

I don't believe an orthodox rabbi has any obligation to marry a jew and a non-Jew, but under your theory he would.

Yes, he can... in a synagogue or by private request... and no... he wouldn't be held to do so by "my theory"... unless he was running "Crazy Hi's Wedding-o-rama" offering wedding services to the public...

Seriously, I am very curious about this.

Then use Google... the principle is basic... and commonly understood... or do you think all those "We only Serve Whites" signs just disappeared out of store windows as a result of good will...?
 Mummymania
Joined: 6/22/2015
Msg: 371
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:36:10 PM
Well as I cited in a Federal Case, it still depends on State Law at this point. The rights at stake will determine how much scrutiny these types of cases will have. I suspect that, so long as there is no problem with the gay finding plenty of opportunities to be married in any particular state, that absent a public accommodation law like in Nevada, a person will not be compelled to marry a gay couple. But how many "crazy hi's wedding 0-rama's are out there anyway? Far as I know, these are limited to Nevada. Other than that, you have public officials who will be required to marry gays, and private officials who may not have to do so if to do so violates their religious beliefs . . . so these cases will continue to play out in the individual states. These issues are not clarified by the Scotus decision which gives gays the right to marry under the Constitution, but does not mandate who will be compelled to perform the ceremonies.
 Mummymania
Joined: 6/22/2015
Msg: 372
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:38:24 PM
I get you BBD, but protected classes will have different levels of scrutiny depending on the class and the issues at stake. Black people cannot be discriminated against by any public facilities anywhere. The issue of who can be compelled to perform gay marriages is still open to dispute in the present time, best I can tell . . . although admittedly I have not spent a lot of time on this issue, except for the last fifteen minutes.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 373
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:43:10 PM

But how many "crazy hi's wedding 0-rama's are out there anyway?

Well... I can think of one just off the top of my head... It's called the "Hitching Post Wedding Chapel"... and it is in Coeur d‘Alene, Idaho...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 374
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:46:52 PM

Well as I cited in a Federal Case, it still depends on State Law at this point. The rights at stake will determine how much scrutiny these types of cases will have.


Federal law preempts state law in cases where federal law expands rights.

The attempt of evangelical businesses was to claim religious beliefs....the problem was that evangelicals attempted to expand these beliefs into the public sector...The recent supreme court case effectively, along with The Civil Rights Act of 1964, ended public sector discrimination.

Adam and Steve can now get married by the local county clerk and have their reception catered by Bigot Pizza.
 Mummymania
Joined: 6/22/2015
Msg: 375
Which state will be the last to legalize gay marriage?
Posted: 6/30/2015 3:51:00 PM

Yes, I can...but it's not at the appellate level...it's at the SC level...it's called "The Civil Rights Act of 1964"....but, let me see if anyone has common sense


BTW, for your edification, this was an act empowered by Congress. Not the SC. The act itself is constitutional of course, but no Federal Act can trump the constitution. So the real issue is whether the government can compel somebody to so something which is in violation of their religious beliefs. And in that regard, I think it depends on the issues and the fundamental rights involved. Everybody has the fundamental right to eat, buy stuff, be employed regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. Not so sure that everybody has the fundamental right to be married by the person of their choosing . . . not if it violates that person's own constitutional rights. Like everything else, its a balancing act and a Court will have to consider all of the various issues and impacts of any legal ruling.
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