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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)      Home login  
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 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 51
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)Page 3 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
If people of either gender wish to "go their own way" for whatever reason, they are free to do so.
Unsure why anyone would need or wish to make an announcement about it.

If you're a man and wish to essentially remain single without romantic ties...so be it.
If you're a woman and wish to essentially remain single without romantic ties...so be it.

Nobody is stopping these folks from doing whatever it is they want to do to be happy.
It is amazing to me there is actually a name for it and it is considered a "movement" or sorts.
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 52
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/16/2014 9:13:32 PM

If people of either gender wish to "go their own way" for whatever reason, they are free to do so.
Unsure why anyone would need or wish to make an announcement about it.


Attention seeking behavior. A certain amount of insecurity about it so they have to 'proclaim' it to validate themselves?
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 53
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/16/2014 9:16:57 PM
^^^

forums1...that sure is as reasonable and valid a theory as anything else out there! :-)
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 54
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/16/2014 10:33:07 PM
forums1...that sure is as reasonable and valid a theory as anything else out there! :-)


I'm just thinking y'know - people that are confident and comfortable with who they are and the way they are choosing to live their life don't really feel the *need* to go broadcasting it to the world, like "here look at me, I'm doing this and all you men out there should agree with me!" They just live their lives the way they, well, live their lives. They are who they are and there's no need to make a big deal about it. I personally don't care what anyone thinks about my lifestyle, it is what it is and it's right for me. The only reason I can see to post entire threads about it is *either* I'm looking for a woman (in this case) that would accept my views, or I'm insecure about it and looking for validation (see a lot of that stuff here, don't we?). And, well, it doesn't take a lot of intelligence to think that posting a thread blaming "those evil women" for all the ills in the world is not a way to attract them, so I'd have to guess the latter here. Not that, I suppose, that's surprising from a 24y/o that thinks he knows "everything about how the world works". Ah to be young and stupid again knowing what I know now. :P
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 55
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/16/2014 11:21:14 PM
As for feminism being "irrelevant"...once AGAIN,all I have to say to that is that you need to not only check your facts but OPEN YOUR EYES and look around...

And I don't mean only here in North America....

The majority of single parent households are still headed by women and the MAJORITY of those women are living below or at, the poverty line....

Here are some actual FACTS about wage disparity between women and men...here in Canada alone.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/89-503-x/2010001/article/11388-eng.htm

And, if you actually CARE to,why don't you actually CHECK out all of the "rights" that women are afforded in OTHER parts of the world....

Feminism is NOT irrelevant at ALL and men who are resentful towards women to the point of hatred...Well I'm MORE than happy to see them "go their own way"...Bon voyage and more power to them....
 ArticLife
Joined: 2/25/2010
Msg: 56
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/17/2014 12:28:01 AM
Wage disparity is by choice, not discrimination, therefore it isn't much of a factor. If you want to change it, tell women to choose higher paying professions, work longer hours, more overtime, negotiate their pay more and so on. In the end it comes down to individual choice.

Feminism isn't very relevant in Canada or the USA. There are some countries, say those in the middle east, where women are still treated terribly. It makes a ton of sense over there.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 57
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/17/2014 4:57:20 AM
Not that, I suppose, that's surprising from a 24y/o that thinks he knows "everything about how the world works". Ah to be young and stupid again knowing what I know now. :P


I have been thinking that all along but if I had said it, I would have been another one of those evil feminazis :)


 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 58
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/17/2014 7:19:15 AM

If you want to change it, tell women to choose higher paying professions, work longer hours, more overtime, negotiate their pay more and so on. In the end it comes down to individual choice.

In other words, to become feminists and go their own way.

The 2 things, I believe, that keep women from banding together en masse and adopting an across-the-board "legs crossed" policy-enjoyment of sex( how dare we!!) and an honest yearning for motherhood&family. Not that ALL women desire these things, and not to say that it isn't possible for women to have these things AND high earnings/financial security.

Can you imagine if women in 'western' cultures(US & Canada,notably) were to collectively slam their legs closed and hyperfocus on high earnings. professional advancement, directly-acquired financial security ? The howl of "unfair!" from men who can't afford to go abroad and "buy" a sexual outlet, and the rush by those who could to countries where wives are available for purchase?

Here is the question I have.

What the hell are people who are only interested in "going their own way" doing on a dating site?

It's been my observation and experience that there are easier ways to obtain no-strings sex than internet dating sites.

No, we get this all the time in the forums-and I'm sure other dating sites with forums and a gazillion chat rooms get this same stuff-disgruntled people who couldn't get laid in a cathouse, trying to give correction to those they perceive to be denying them the sex and/or romance they are entitled to.
You can explain and explain and explain, but there are those who think if they yell long enough and loud enough about how they are taking their ball and going home, that the rest of the world will stop and spin the way THEY want it to.
I have no quarrel with those who do not want the whole package( marriage, committment, family),as long as they do not misrepresent this mindset in order to obtain social and/or sexual activity.
But those who truly have decided to go their own way-just DO.
Cindy O
 ArticLife
Joined: 2/25/2010
Msg: 59
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/17/2014 8:47:17 AM
MGTOW, at least to some, is only valuable to ward you from most girls who might use the state against you. But if one can find a girl who doesn't want kids or marriage and is genuinely nice, why wouldn't they go for that? It's hard to find, but not impossible. The idea is to help men who aren't thinking clearly, see how much of a trap marriage and kids are if you marry the wrong kind of girl. It's dangerous.

If a woman focuses on work and forgoes relationships or sex, that's great for her in a lot of ways. Though you can certainly still be in a relationship and focus on work. That's where the financial inequality stems from, women's choice to focus more on family, marriage and kids. That's the root of it.

If you want that to change, you need to focus less on the things that distract you from earning more money. Or, accept that your focus on family, marriage and kids will not able you to do the same as men do.

It's all about pros and cons, weighing your options. There's no denying these are tough choices, but let's not blame other people for the consequences of our choices.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 60
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/17/2014 8:48:12 AM

Wage disparity is by choice, not discrimination, therefore it isn't much of a factor. If you want to change it, tell women to choose higher paying professions, work longer hours, more overtime, negotiate their pay more and so on. In the end it comes down to individual choice.

Feminism isn't very relevant in Canada or the USA. There are some countries, say those in the middle east, where women are still treated terribly. It makes a ton of sense over there.


Yup, said it before and I'll say it again, you're delusional my friend....LOL
Yes,all of those women out there earning less than men are CHOOSING that,because hey it's SO much fun to do the same job and get paid LESS...LMAO

Women are STILL being discriminated in a wide variety of ways here in North America and I'm NOT surprised that you as a male, can't/won't see that because you're too busy nattering on about how they have "all of the rights" etc. and other such nonsense...

When YOU yourself, are a woman and walking in our shoes,then come talk to me, or even if you do some actual RESEARCH into the subject before making these ridiculous pronouncements that you are attempting to pass off as truth....
Maybe THEN I'll be interested in your opinion,even IF it remains the same, but somehow I don't think it will....not if you actually are able to accept FACTS and REAL statistics,rather than the rantings of a bunch of bitter biscuits who hate women just because of a deluded sense that women today have some kind of "supremacy" of rights, over and above men, that you found on the internet.
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 61
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/17/2014 9:48:14 AM
Feminism vs. Truth
PragerUniversity

Published on Sep 22, 2014

Women in America are the freest in the world, yet many feminists tell us women are oppressed. They advocate this falsehood through victim mentality propaganda and misleading statistics, such as the gender wage gap myth. In five minutes, American Enterprise Institute's Christina Hoff Sommers tells you the truth about feminism.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oqyrflOQFc
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 62
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 3:10:23 AM
Women in America are the freest in the world, yet many feminists tell us women are oppressed. They advocate this falsehood through victim mentality propaganda and misleading statistics, such as the gender wage gap myth. In five minutes, American Enterprise Institute's Christina Hoff Sommers tells you the truth about feminism.


Sorry, I'm too busy going my own way/doing my own thing right now to even bother listening to it.

And anyways, what does it matter whether women think they're victims, or oppressed, or spouting falsehoods - if I'm not interested in engaging with women and am just 'going my own way' now? If I'm *truly* "going my own way" and fully embracing the "philosophy", then they can do/say/complain about anything they want and it really wouldn't affect me would it?

*Unless*, that is, I'm not *really* embracing it at all and I'm just using it as a "pulpit" to preach my own personal nonsense & vitriol to others. In which case you're not doing a very good job of it - you might want to read on the works of Joseph Goebbels and Edward Bernays... you know who they are already with all your wisdom, right?
 ArticLife
Joined: 2/25/2010
Msg: 63
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 3:14:30 AM
You realize you can have a philosophy of going your own way, off from the common path that society set out for you (take care of a women for marriage and kids) but also tell others why you're doing this, warning them / informing them?

I don't know why you think it's a contradiction.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 64
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 4:35:20 AM
Going your own way out of free choice may be admirable.

Going your own way as a reaction against the free choice of others certainly isn't.
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 5:34:49 AM
Do we need to start singing a song by Fleetwood mac?
 ArticLife
Joined: 2/25/2010
Msg: 66
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 6:59:48 AM
I find it rather funny/ironic that in a thread discussing men going their own way, the opposite of feminism, a girl insults me with the term "****".

I don't know, something about that is hilarious.

Obviously a decent amount of people care or there wouldn't be MGTOW.
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 67
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 7:17:04 AM
IMO men's rights movement has a lot of valid points about men not being treated equally. It's good to see they are trying to change laws to help out men.

Men are discriminated against in a lot of ways, feminist groups don't care about this type of gender discrimination since they are only concerned with women's issues.

I do think in the USA women have achieved equality, now it's more about getting as much power as they can. And the leaders of any movement, be it racial, feminist, AARP, don't want to give up power even if their goals are achieved. So the leaders will keep raising issues no matter how minor.

Young women are within 93% of the same pay as men. A lot of women are paid less because they work in lower paid occupations, they take more time off of work for child care, maternity leave, caring for others in their family, Vs men who dedicate more of their lives to the workforce. Career interruptions will cause a lower pay range for either gender, but women have more career interruptions.

It's natural that groups like MGTOW want to advertise / proselytize, they gain more power / money the more people want to join their websites. It's like any other group in that respect.

MGTOW is an offshoot of the men's rights movement, they are more about concerned about women and the influence women have on some men. Thus they treat women like minor Dracula, someone they need to ward off. I don't feel this way about women, so their rants don't appeal to me.
 ArticLife
Joined: 2/25/2010
Msg: 68
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 5:26:54 PM
A general term of insult is still an insult even if it's directed towards more than just me. But it's okay, hide behind grammar if you want to dismiss what you said. Maybe you also realized how odd it was to say that as (what I assume at any rate) a feminist.

I'm personally not really a MGTOW (at least I don't go on their forums or anything) but I see a lot of logic in some of what they say, and they have thousands of people around. But you don't seem too fond of arguing points and logic, only dishing out one line ad hominems.
 ladymercury
Joined: 5/25/2011
Msg: 69
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 5:50:57 PM
I kind of like this whole MGTOW trend. Because I'm a woman and going mine ... so much so that I'm sitting in a motel over 700 kms from my newly sold home heading west for another 3,500 kms with my dog. I hope to find a man going my way once this is all said and done and if not, I'll go his.

Just sayin'. Some going our way humour.

I am more on the side of philosophy but movement works.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 70
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 6:25:14 PM

More likely, the idea that men might not want to be ruled and controlled by women anymore scares you. I guess I don't blame you, you have a nice status quo going on now.

Feminism isn't a dirty word, it's an irrelevant word since there isn't anything to be a feminist about. You hold all the cards, in every category.


I am not trying to be rude, but I will say that your age is showing. Feminism:"the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men."
Nothing more, nothing less. Women most certainly do not "hold the cards". Sure, women earn much more than they used to, but they still don't earn as much as men in the same positions. They still are responsible for more than half of the household chores, more than half the childcare, and more often than not, after having spent the day at a full time job. Still, for many women, they wouldn't want it any other way, no matter how much they complain.
I don't know of many women who want to rule & control a man, except those who are control freaks, and I'd venture a guess (bet money, even) that there are just as man men as women who are so.

You are no different than others, choosing to buy into what is fed to you, rather than simply opening your eyes. Men who feel as you state are likely to "join a movement" , but most men and women alike would simply be happy to find someone of the opposite sex who cares for them, listens to them & values them. I believe it is most likely that the increase in selfishness, lack of community & expectation of immediate gratification prevalent in today's society is what feeds such movements. The genders don't really hate each other, we simply hate having to work, to wait, to put effort into relationships.

Contentment is highly underrated.
 ArticLife
Joined: 2/25/2010
Msg: 71
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 8:28:39 PM
What evidence do you have that women in the same fields, (with the same experience and skill as their male counterparts) earn less? There is none that I have seen. Women who are as skilled, educated and work as long as a man, regardless of the field, will earn the same. The idea that there is this mass discrimination against women is ludicrous, bordering on downright conspiracy.

As for child caring. That's a choice, no? If women want to keep working, they can do so, and the man can stay home. The one concession I will grant you is there's still social stigma towards that kind of relationship (man stays home while the women works). But it applies just as much to the man as the woman, so that's an issue that plagues both genders.

Women don't want to rule men, they just want access to our resources, it's a biological imperative that doesn't shouldn't apply to modern society because women are legally equal to men, and have just as much to value in the marketplace so they can earn their way and truly be independent, if they choose that path.

Now, if you want to be the stay at home mom type, there's nothing wrong with this, but don't act as if this is oppressive to you in some way.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 72
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/18/2014 9:04:56 PM
Artic, no disrespect, you have had some good responses from some wise women in this thread. No, I'm not talking about the angry ones. But the poster above you spoke very eloquently and respectfully and you basically "poo pooed" her. She is right, the majority of us don't want to control men, lord over men...we want an equal partnership...heavy on the partnership. Many of us old broads had to fight tooth and nail to get the so-called equality that young women young age have not lifted a finger for but have benefited from. I'm not ****ing, it means the 20 and 30 something's have it a little easier...which in the long run benefits us all.

I said in an earlier post that your age and experience differ from some of us. It's not a slam, it's not disrespectful, it's the truth. I remember what it was like 35 years ago, you don't. Unless you secretly have a vagina and are over 50 years old...you don't have the same experiences.

As to men going their own way...just as many women, if not more, are going their own way too. Many women in their late 50's and beyond that are divorced or widowed are returned to school to get the degrees they put on hold while raising families and working full time, many women travelling, taking courses in the arts, stepping outside the box and their comfort zones. They have no desire to be tied to a home, a man or helping to raise grandchildren. It's their time. We also encourage our daughters, grand daughters and the young women we come in contact with to get the best education they can, find a job/career they have passion for and seek adventure as well as joy in their lives. What we AREN'T saying is "don't let a man fvck up your life". Find your joy.
 ArticLife
Joined: 2/25/2010
Msg: 73
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/19/2014 3:19:04 AM

Artic, no disrespect, you have had some good responses from some wise women in this thread. No, I'm not talking about the angry ones. But the poster above you spoke very eloquently and respectfully and you basically "poo pooed" her. She is right, the majority of us don't want to control men, lord over men...we want an equal partnership...heavy on the partnership. Many of us old broads had to fight tooth and nail to get the so-called equality that young women young age have not lifted a finger for but have benefited from. I'm not ****ing, it means the 20 and 30 something's have it a little easier...which in the long run benefits us all.


I respectfully disagreed with her, offering logic to counter hers. How is that "poo pooing" her? Whatever that even means.


I said in an earlier post that your age and experience differ from some of us. It's not a slam, it's not disrespectful, it's the truth. I remember what it was like 35 years ago, you don't. Unless you secretly have a vagina and are over 50 years old...you don't have the same experiences.


Age is irrelevant. Logic and facts are all that matter.


As to men going their own way...just as many women, if not more, are going their own way too. Many women in their late 50's and beyond that are divorced or widowed are returned to school to get the degrees they put on hold while raising families and working full time, many women travelling, taking courses in the arts, stepping outside the box and their comfort zones. They have no desire to be tied to a home, a man or helping to raise grandchildren. It's their time. We also encourage our daughters, grand daughters and the young women we come in contact with to get the best education they can, find a job/career they have passion for and seek adventure as well as joy in their lives. What we AREN'T saying is "don't let a man fvck up your life". Find your joy.


A man cannot legally screw up your life. A woman can. Well, to be fair it's more about income (since men typically still earn more by choice). Any man marrying a woman who is poorer than her can be taken to the cleaners. That is the difference that irks me and has me very anxious. But I think it's wonderful if women also want to break out of these established gender roles. Do what you want, but most importantly, think for yourself and figure out who you even are first.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 74
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Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/19/2014 5:42:08 AM

Any man marrying a woman who is poorer than [him] can be taken to the cleaners. That is the difference that irks me and has me very anxious.

What, that's it... all that anxiety about a bit of money? How about a pre-nup? Or choosing someone who isn't poorer? Or giving the difference to charity? Or accepting it as a reasonable risk vs reward proposition?

There's nothing to be irked at if they knew what they were potentially liable to pay and freely agreed to it. If someone put a gun to their head and made them marry on those terms, then we'd be as irked as you. Maybe even irkeder.

So if your goal is to help people make informed decisions and understand their duties and obligations in partnership, that's very civic-minded of you... but I'm fairly sure the basics are widely known.

If it's to instruct people on what values should guide their decision-making, maybe you need to reconsider the likelihood and merit of that.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 75
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
Posted: 11/19/2014 7:07:55 AM

Age is irrelevant. Logic and facts are all that matter.


That's where you're sort of wrong - we have the experience and years ago we tried to use logic, which didn't prevail, so many are "emotional". You have no experience and reading about it in a book with garner you - no experience. So go ahead and go all Spock on us and use "logic". You still have no experience. You are of an age where you got a blue ribbon just for showing up and not for your contribution - we, us older broads, contributed, we lived it.

Look up "poo pooed". Kinds of like "dissed".

Logic says we should all have the same rights regardless of gender. Logic says. But it wasn't always that way and yes, the past does cloud some of the "logic" that you put forth. But to many of us remember fighting for the logical way in careers, work, home life, child rearing, politics, child care, health care, and on and on and hitting walls. Hell, I had to get my husband's written permission to have a tubiligation. WTF. This is the stuff that us older broads went through so don't go all "logical" on a very "logical" as well as "emotional" issue because when you do...you get laughed at and your opinion is discarded like last night's leftovers.

You want it to be about the money - it's not just about the money. I agree that there should be far more shared or joint custody (men are just as capable), there should be far more men getting sole custody (men are just as capable and some women aren't), I disagree with alimony/spousal support unless there is a time limit on it that is reasonable (for example a stay at home mother that needs to return to school or get job training), child support should be equitable and paid in full monthly (by both parents), I agree that "some" men (probably too many) get shafted in the custody/child support/spousal support arena and that's up to ALL of us to try and change through the legal system and proper channels. The women's movemeny didn't achieve goals instantly and only by burning their bras.


Do what you want, but most importantly, think for yourself and figure out who you even are first.


We've been doing that for years. We've also been teaching that to our children, both sons and daughter, long before you were born. I'm now teaching that to my grandsons and grandaughter....nothing new here, it might be new to you but to the majority of us that have posted on this thread...nuttin new.
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