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 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 226
Women in their 30's not having time for menPage 10 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)

women now have children, a college education, a career and an extended family.

How DARE they? Next we'll be having our pets doing the same!

it used to be that way back in the PRE-60's era when they were simply housewives.

As they should be! Why did the woman cross the road? Who cares? What was she doing out of the kitchen in the first place??

then they decided to do the career thing.

What has our world come to? Oh yeah, WWII. Women started working because we needed them, as tons of men were off to war. Then we learned that they were, like, as naturally smart as regular people (men).

it's one of the reasons for America being in decline.

It's actually the other way around, if you're talking about economic decline/happiness in comparison to the 50s/early-60s. Back then, taxes were (too) HIGH. US produced tons of oil and we were a rich country and plenty to go around. You didn't need women working. 1 person could carry a home. Women working needed to become the norm, as time rolled on. 1 typical career to cater to buying a house and breeding wasn't going to cover it anymore. More people working isn't going to make economic decline. It'd be the opposite.

the break up of the family where one person made the money and the other took care of the home and children. that formula worked very well in my opinion.

Yes, but until the country's economic landscape radically changes (which it won't in the foreseeable future) -- it's going to be common for both people working to some degree for most of the time. You're not going to have the households where the female is dependent on the male to survive, thus, if she doesn't like her situation, tough (And clean the stove! I don't pay your hairdresser for you to watch Ozzie & Harriet! I want to come home to a clean stove and my version of Leave it to Beaver!).
 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 227
view profile
History
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 2/22/2015 1:54:32 PM

How DARE they? Next we'll be having our pets doing the same!

^^^^^^^^
Laughed to hard.Geez.
 Aradia96
Joined: 10/25/2014
Msg: 228
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 2/23/2015 3:48:05 AM

what are some of the positives you bring to the table in a long term relationship?
what is it about you that a man would say "Aradia is the one for me"?

My name is actually Sarah, so I hope they wouldn't be saying "Aradia is the one for me" ;)
Well I guess I have good humor and am kind of funny, I think I'm fun to be around. I try damn hard to make relationships work too and figure out problems (assuming the other person is willing to put effort in too), I put my all into them. My last one was 6.5 years long. I think I'm at-least somewhat intelligent so I could bring that to the table to intellectually stimulate my partner. I am different from others in positive ways, I am demisexual, which isn't a negative as long as you're on the same wave length as me and we are compatible. I have my quirks and a unique set of skills with my graphics and webdesign which was self taught. I'm considerate and would do small gestures to show my partner I care about him and love him, like drawing him something, making something by hand, cooking for him, writing him an erotic story, doing graphics art for him, or just buying him small gifts. I'd like to think I'm very giving and accommodating toward my partner. When the relationship is established enough and we/I feel I'm comfortable and ready for sexual intimacy, I'm very giving in that too. - Just as long as he respects me and appreciates me and doesn't treat me like an object to experiment on (seriously, men have wanted that and acted like that). I am very supportive towards my partner and like to help encourage them to be the best they can be and at their maximum potential.

Since I am into psychology stuff, I went and dug up my MBTI personality type which I feel describes me rather well. I find it quite relevant to your question, since it describes my possitives and what I could bring into a relationship, IMo. I'm an INFJ.
http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ_rel.html

INFJs are gentle, caring, complex and highly intuitive individuals. Artistic and creative, they live in a world of hidden meanings and possibilities. Only one percent of the population has an INFJ Personality Type, making it the most rare of all the types.
INFJ is a natural nurturer; patient, devoted and protective. They make loving parents and usually have strong bonds with their offspring. They have high expectations of their children, and push them to be the best that they can be. This can sometimes manifest itself in the INFJ being hard-nosed and stubborn. But generally, children of an INFJ get devoted and sincere parental guidance, combined with deep caring.
In general, the INFJ is a deeply warm and caring person who is highly invested in the health of their close relationships, and puts forth a lot of effort to make them positive. They are valued by those close to them for these special qualities. They seek long-term, lifelong relationships, although they don't always find them.
They are perfectionists, constantly striving to achieve the Perfect Relationship. This can sometimes be frustrating to their mates, who may feel put upon by the INFJs demanding perfectionism. However, it may also be greatly appreciated, because it indicates a sincere commitment to the relationship, and a depth of caring which is not usually present in other types.

Sexually, INFJs view intimacy as a nearly spiritual experience. They embrace the opportunity to bond heart and soul with their mates. As service-oriented individuals, it's very important to them that their mates are happy. Intimacy is an opportunity for the INFJ to selflessly give their love, and experience it in a tangible way.
 tgif111
Joined: 10/24/2014
Msg: 229
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 2/23/2015 11:02:18 AM
Sarah,
that was an extremely interesting, refreshing and fascinating reply into your internal persona. you are truly a very unique woman.
it was kind of you to reply in such detail and with candor. it really told me a lot about who you are and the life you live.
with what you've told me, I hold you in high esteem. thank you!

I looked at Swansea on mapquest and it does seem to be isolated and a 10 hour drive to Adelaide the closest major city.
I can see where you may have some trouble finding a mate in that area.
 Aradia96
Joined: 10/25/2014
Msg: 230
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 2/24/2015 3:15:48 AM
Awww thanks a lot Tgif that's very nice of you :)


it was kind of you to reply in such detail and with candor.

I try to reply nicely - the only time I don't is when I lose control of my emotions and get upset, I don't actually want to be negative though.
That is why I hate that you can't delete anything of the forums because some of the things I have said are somewhat abhorrent, and I know that.

I actually live in Lake Munmorah - which is close to Swansea but even more isolated. The estate I live in wasn't even built when I came here, only one small street was in, I saw it be built from the rubble over the years and a school and shops be built in as well. We only moved here to get away from a previous neighbor which dangerous and terrorizing us. I was only young.

Even the man I dated recently lived like 40 minutes away, which was hard but made harder because he wanted me to travel to him.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 231
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 2/24/2015 7:11:25 AM

That is why I hate that you can't delete anything of the forums because some of the things I have said are somewhat abhorrent, and I know that.


Aradia (Sarah) darling, we can't do jack sh*t about the past, just understand it was a reflection of how you felt and what you thought at that particular nanosecond, it is not a reflection of who you are as a whole. There is always now and there is always tomorrow to post a fresh thought, so don't apologize for the past, we can't do anything about it in the present.

I write a ton of stupid sh*t, and I don't regret anything. It's not that I don't reflect on it and think maybe it was "way out there", or unfair, or coming from an entitled perspective, it doesn't matter. We are not all supposed to be the same, that would be boring and predictable.
 iamconstipated
Joined: 3/3/2015
Msg: 232
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/10/2015 7:52:35 AM
Men say one thing than mean another. Women now have full lives and now don't make you the center of their lives. You got what you wanted - your space and plenty of it.
 BLonde^j^AngeL
Joined: 1/2/2015
Msg: 233
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/10/2015 8:29:22 AM
@iamconstipated

you sound a lot like hot dog shop--- a former beloved poster.

maybe you need to take a....laxative?

ouch!
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 234
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/10/2015 11:19:10 AM

Men say one thing than mean another. Women now have full lives and now don't make you the center of their lives.

You forgot to flip your hair at the end of that...

You got what you wanted - your space and plenty of it.

Well, being constipated, I'm sure you're looking for plenty of space as well!
 Silverhawk_tkn
Joined: 12/3/2010
Msg: 235
view profile
History
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/10/2015 12:24:26 PM

Well this statement is actually pretty darn accurate, to be honest. Times have changed, women need men less and less nowadays.
That doesn't mean the majority of us don't WANT a man, we just don't NEED one.
Women are now independent, have far more interests including careers, making their own money, establishing themselves and they can also have babies whenever they want and don't need a husband...so looking for a man to settle down with is no longer at the top of their list of priorities.
Frankly, it's not even necessary to get married anymore. Sorry guys.

Personally I always make time when I'm in a relationship but I've learned not to evolve my world around a man.
More often than not the guy takes that for granted, becomes less appreciative and proves to be undeserving.


I get this.

My current GF and I have a long term LAT (Living Apart Together) relationship due to the harsh C.S. laws here in Canada and we have been together now for 6 years. While at first it seems kinda ridiculous to live apart for so long, it does afford some benefits and keeps both of us "independent". Some things I kinda like about this:

- I never get relegated to a "dog house". I have a nice home to get back to if we fight!!
- Whats mine is mine. Whats hers is hers. I never have to worry about a nasty split or paying CS for her kids if we go our separate ways.
- I get my "alone" time and she gets hers. I like doing my own thing with my own friends from time to time as does she.
- Our kids get unabated time with their respective mom and dad - they don't always have to put up with "step mom/dad".
- We have two sets of assets (houses, cars, etc.). As we continue to get older and pay these things off/down, if at some time we do decide to live together, we will be in fantastic financial shape!!
- Our kids don't have to put up with stepbrother/sister all the time. They also have unabated "alone" time.

I can go on and on, but my point is that its not so bad to have independence on both sides and I think its good to have this kind of time in a relationship. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I always look forward to spending weeks and weekends with my GF after I've had my son for a week and I haven't seen her for some time. I think she appreciates the same.
 VolkanoKing
Joined: 8/1/2014
Msg: 236
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/10/2015 1:42:09 PM
^^^ I completely see the logic in this.

I broke up with my last bf of nine years because ultimately, he really was the marrying type. I told him at the very start I was not interested in marriage or kids. And he decided to accept this. Not a good idea, and not something I would do again with someone who truly wants to join together with someone.

During the last couple of years there was more tension building, and it was exactly because our relationship wasn't going to be changing. He wanted to take that next step. He was very itchy for marriage.

I told him we needed to move on, mostly because he really needed to find a wife.

Four months later a woman moved in with him and they got married.

I cannot even imagine living with someone anymore. Been there, done that.

Also, when you DO have financial assets like a home and investments, you are going to be all the more careful to protect that. I do not feel like signing a piece of paper that automatically grants another person 50% of everything I have.

No fricken way!

Life has become much more about protecting my finances and stability rather than chasing romance and building a life with another person. My life is built. SHARING my life with a man would be great, but...interestingly..for all the independence and space men seem to want in life, I haven't found many who would be happy to live separately without some grand plan to fuse lives together. Marriage still seems like a "thing" for men.

So it's good to hear about successful "living part" situations.
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 237
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/10/2015 8:32:24 PM

Well this statement is actually pretty darn accurate, to be honest. Times have changed, women need men less and less nowadays.

True, but by that rationale, one would have to also say that one should drop expectations of what a man-is-supposed-to-do that stems from when women Needed men, right? For instance, it isn't As one-sided that it's "guys" who will just want something non-serious when the other party gets upset that they got a vibe that he/she seemed to want more. After all, she doesn't Need a man, right? Also, in the initial dating sequence, it should lose it's Entitlement that a guy pays for [virtually] everything when she's an Independent woman herself, who's "making their own money, establishing themselves".

So I've learned to make myself #1, live my life and if a guy is worth it then yes I'll make the time, but he has to make just as much of an effort.

I don't think it should be such an "I Deserve!" (thumb pointing to chest) mentality for either gender. It should be "I'm not Dependent!". Big difference than that and having a mentality of the other person having to "prove themselves to me for me to make time for them" (flip hair). That mentality for any guy or gal is not going to work in their favor, except in getting someone who wants to be in the passive position.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 238
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/12/2015 11:53:15 AM

True, but by that rationale, one would have to also say that one should drop expectations of what a man-is-supposed-to-do that stems from when women Needed men, right?

Naturally. DID women ever REALLY need men, or is that a smokescreen society placed on us?

For instance, it isn't As one-sided that it's "guys" who will just want something non-serious when the other party gets upset that they got a vibe that he/she seemed to want more.

Precisely

After all, she doesn't Need a man, right?

Exactly.

Also, in the initial dating sequence, it should lose it's Entitlement that a guy pays for [virtually] everything when she's an Independent woman herself, who's "making their own money, establishing themselves".

Of course.
 JohnnyI986
Joined: 7/6/2014
Msg: 239
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/12/2015 4:13:18 PM
Can't say I've noticed this problem.. In fact I've seen quite the opposite. Its like any woman over 30 is obsessed with locking a man down and trying to have kids etc etc. Probably because they know its only a matter of time before their stock market value crashes into the ground.
 Demidar
Joined: 10/22/2014
Msg: 240
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/13/2015 4:22:07 AM
" Naturally. DID women ever REALLY need men, : After over 20 years of women saying that , men are doing the one thing the feminists never thought would happen , saying the same thing back . About time men woke up . They forgot one thing when they started the war against men , men are the ones that win the wars .
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 241
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/13/2015 4:50:14 AM

- I never get relegated to a "dog house". I have a nice home to get back to if we fight!!
- Whats mine is mine. Whats hers is hers. I never have to worry about a nasty split or paying CS for her kids if we go our separate ways.
- I get my "alone" time and she gets hers. I like doing my own thing with my own friends from time to time as does she.
- Our kids get unabated time with their respective mom and dad - they don't always have to put up with "step mom/dad".
- We have two sets of assets (houses, cars, etc.). As we continue to get older and pay these things off/down, if at some time we do decide to live together, we will be in fantastic financial shape!!
- Our kids don't have to put up with stepbrother/sister all the time. They also have unabated "alone" time.

I can go on and on, but my point is that its not so bad to have independence on both sides and I think its good to have this kind of time in a relationship. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I always look forward to spending weeks and weekends with my GF after I've had my son for a week and I haven't seen her for some time. I think she appreciates the same.


I do see the logic and agree those are the pluses, though I doubt you could go on and on, you are sort of repeating that it's better for the "children".

Absence makes the heart grow fonder, unless you are talking about a long distance relationship, then it becomes out of site, out of mind.


^^^ I completely see the logic in this.

I broke up with my last bf of nine years because ultimately, he really was the marrying type. I told him at the very start I was not interested in marriage or kids. And he decided to accept this. Not a good idea, and not something I would do again with someone who truly wants to join together with someone.


Therein lies the big negative, these LAT relationships have a higher failure rate for time than do marriages. As long as you don't mind having to search for a new LAT partners, and you don''t get TOO attached to your last partner, I think it's a very good way live.

It's also difficult to find a partner that is on the exact same page as you are about this. But it always difficult to find that partner regardless of if you are looking for a LAT or marriage. I think casual dating is easiest of all, you pretty much don't need a lot of compatibility, just attraction.

I have always said, money and sex makes the world go around. A combination of one or both is what really drives most relationships.
 InSerchOfSunrise
Joined: 1/18/2014
Msg: 242
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/13/2015 8:10:45 AM

I have noticed more and more women in their 30's or older want a relationship but only if it fits into their schedule.

This is endemic and part of why people end up serial dating and end up having FWB's. It's not just women though. I've had female friends and there are hordes of guys who can never pick up their cellphone and actually talk. Instead people play email tag or become epic texters. I do have to say that when I see the words "busy & hectic life" I really stop & think how I'd fit in. It all depends on what you want. If you both work 9-5 or 8-4:30 Monday thru Friday and get every bank holiday off some people are happy to see each other once a week on Saturday or Sunday. I don't have those hours-98% of nurses like myself don't. I work 12 hour night shifts, every other weekend, and some holidays.
If a woman is willing to make time give her a chance. If not just keep looking. Try something social like Meetup. Don't sweat it.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 243
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/14/2015 8:12:30 PM

After over 20 years of women saying that , men are doing the one thing the feminists never thought would happen , saying the same thing back .

Why would this be a bad thing? Who didn't think that would happen and why would it be a thought?

About time men woke up .

Why does the response to what I said always sound like sour grapes? My point is men and women should WANT each other, not have to depend on each other. It's just healthier.

They forgot one thing when they started the war against men , men are the ones that win the wars .

It's not a war cry at all - you can take it like one if you want to, but if you do that's your problem. Who are "they"? There has never been a war against men. Women wanting an equal footing in society should be no big deal, unless it serves you better for them not to have it.
 Peter_Hungus
Joined: 11/3/2012
Msg: 244
view profile
History
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/15/2015 12:43:34 PM

I get this.

My current GF and I have a long term LAT (Living Apart Together) relationship due to the harsh C.S. laws here in Canada and we have been together now for 6 years. While at first it seems kinda ridiculous to live apart for so long, it does afford some benefits and keeps both of us "independent". Some things I kinda like about this:

- I never get relegated to a "dog house". I have a nice home to get back to if we fight!!
- Whats mine is mine. Whats hers is hers. I never have to worry about a nasty split or paying CS for her kids if we go our separate ways.
- I get my "alone" time and she gets hers. I like doing my own thing with my own friends from time to time as does she.
- Our kids get unabated time with their respective mom and dad - they don't always have to put up with "step mom/dad".
- We have two sets of assets (houses, cars, etc.). As we continue to get older and pay these things off/down, if at some time we do decide to live together, we will be in fantastic financial shape!!
- Our kids don't have to put up with stepbrother/sister all the time. They also have unabated "alone" time.

I can go on and on, but my point is that its not so bad to have independence on both sides and I think its good to have this kind of time in a relationship. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I always look forward to spending weeks and weekends with my GF after I've had my son for a week and I haven't seen her for some time. I think she appreciates the same.


Those are all great points. Particularly about the children's unabated alone time. I have been in a situation where I was accused of favoritism because I spent my whole weekend catering to my daughter whenever I got her. She couldn't understand that when I only get her every other weekend, I want to spend every moment I can with her. You're damn straight her kids played second fiddle. She got to see her kids everyday.

Regardless of what anyone says, most women with young kids wont go for the above arrangement. Most women with young kids are just barely making it and are looking to find a guy for help. I don't mean that in a gold-digging sense but they are looking for indirect assistance. I.E, not looking for a man's money, but a cohabitation splits the household bills in half. There're not looking for direct help raising her kids ( playing Dad, household rules) but hey, watch the kids so I can go to the store, pick Johnny up from practice.


Can't say I've noticed this problem.. In fact I've seen quite the opposite. Its like any woman over 30 is obsessed with locking a man down and trying to have kids etc etc. Probably because they know its only a matter of time before their stock market value crashes into the ground.[/quote}

Locking down can be done other then just having kids. I do agree women don't seem to be content unless they are in a position where there has to be some negative ramification for you, if you leave her or she decides to leave you. Even if it's hosing you with the rest of the apartment lease. (see above)
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 245
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/15/2015 1:47:36 PM

Absolutely. You get what I'm saying. For many women it would be insulting if her man tried to support her, especially nowadays when many women out earn men. It should be 50/50. Men should still be gentlemen though, that will never go out of style :)

But a guy carrying that viewpoint/mentality is going to be very limited. A low % of women have that mentality, and it's going to be to his Disadvantage, as that's not how the mentality is at all in society. Although it's not like many decades past, it's only partially of what you lay out.

{It should lose it's Entitlement that a guy pays for (virtually) everything}
Again, agreed. Men should not.

Again, that's not what's seen or expected, generally speaking. The general consensus (at least urban; far more old-school out in the country) is that the guy pays for the 1st date(s), even if he Didn't clearly ask to Take Her Out... and that the gal will commonly pick up a small tab of drinks, ice cream, or whatever here and there once in a while if she supports herself just fine -- but that part varies from a decent amount to not so much.

The guy I'm currently seeing now was one of few that actually made an effort and showed me that he's a decent, intriguing guy that is worth making time for & getting to know.

Yeah, but do you reach out to 'prove' yourself in Equally the same way with what you expect guys to do? Do you see it as an equal-boat thing as far as the dating processes go for guy-and-girl, or do you see it as "Girl, you make that man Earn your time!" ? :)
 Demidar
Joined: 10/22/2014
Msg: 246
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/16/2015 4:34:31 PM
It's not a war cry at all ' Lets see , the legal system is biased against men . The entire social system is biased against men . Corrupt family and divorce (reason why marriage is at an all time historic low in the USA) courts are biased against men . The education system is biased against males ( if a young male shows the least bit of individuality they medicate it out of him so that he can be average like the rest ) We have probably lost an entire generation of physicists because of what has happened in education . Those are the facts of the matter . Looks pretty much like a war to me . Finally more and more men are beginning to look at it in that manner as well .
 antirepublican
Joined: 12/31/2014
Msg: 247
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/16/2015 5:54:13 PM

Finally more and more men are beginning to look at it in that manner as well .


Yes they are but they are misinformed. Men have been exploited since the beginning of time. Being born male has always been a reason to be bullied, exploited and discarded. It is now and will be so forever. What is special about now? The species has put enough time behind it that the details of this little arrangement are coming to light. Some men -- traditionalists -- are at war because they want to stay ignorant pack mules. Some men are at war -- the MRAs -- because they want to be equal to women. Some men -- the MGTOW -- are deserting the war. Some men -- like myself -- are not at war because they want to exploit the situation as it is. Who knows why? Main thing to understand is that women didn't do this. It always was the case that male thought, endurance and sinew served women. Only now can men know their place, take it into account and build from there for their own purposes.
 ozsealady1
Joined: 6/13/2013
Msg: 248
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/16/2015 6:52:31 PM

It's not a war cry at all ' Lets see , the legal system is biased against men . The entire social system is biased against men . Corrupt family and divorce (reason why marriage is at an all time historic low in the USA) courts are biased against men . The education system is biased against males ( if a young male shows the least bit of individuality they medicate it out of him so that he can be average like the rest ) We have probably lost an entire generation of physicists because of what has happened in education . Those are the facts of the matter . Looks pretty much like a war to me . Finally more and more men are beginning to look at it in that manner as well .


^^^ Demidar...
Am I right in assuming:

Most judges and lawyers are men.
Most politicians who make the laws are men.
Most Physicists are men.


Men have been exploited since the beginning of time.

^^^ Back when all judges, lawyers, politicians and physicists were men.

Women doing any of these things in any significant numbers is very, very recent in human history.



The population who vote are 50:50 men and women.
Heterosexual marriages and divorces are 50:50 men and women.

So presuming you are right and "The entire social system is biased against men... and Corrupt"
Surely the cause is at least 50% men?

Have we women really been that powerful?
Since the beginning of time?

I doubt it very much.

I am sad for people who think like you and are so negative towards so much of life.
 Demidar
Joined: 10/22/2014
Msg: 249
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/16/2015 9:09:17 PM
"Men have been exploited since the beginning of time. " Very true , and for the first time in history men have a chance to break the yoke of serfdom and be free . We just need to remember to never repeat the same mistake that put us into serfdom in the first place . I have no problem with actually treating women as an equals , they will actually have to be responsible for their actions .
"Have we women really been that powerful?
Since the beginning of time?" Men have provided for and protected you though out the ages . We no longer need to do that because you are equal and can protect yourselves . Interesting fact is if every man walked off the job for two days , it would take two years to clean up the mess .
 ozsealady1
Joined: 6/13/2013
Msg: 250
Women in their 30's not having time for men
Posted: 3/16/2015 9:36:39 PM
demidar...

May I ask you... Who put men into serfdom?
When you break your yoke of serfdom... what does that mean? How do you live your life?

Do you still want to spend time with women?
In what capacity?
Or live in a totally male environment?
Do you still go to work?

And please give me an example of women not being responsible for their actions?

I also am interested in how YOU define treating women as equals.
Who has stepped up and who has stepped down?

If women are no longer able to exploit men and keep them in serfdom, surely that means to achieve equality men have come up and women have lost.

That being so men should be deliriously happy?
Yet you are not.


Truly I am interested in understanding your thought process and others who hold the same opinions.
No that is not sarcasm. I am curious.


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