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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > hy·po·thet·i·cal      Home login  
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 awesomefiftyman
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 25
hy·po·thet·i·cal Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)
Late arrival CTRLvector but thanks for your input.

No problem with you repeating saying "down to a science" to the point that you can test for validity by recreating the results with statistical accuracy.

Tell that to the Kool-aid drinkers who believe in human time travellers.
 robaustralia
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 26
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/25/2014 12:46:34 AM

the sun is not an "imagined" object.


I never said it was. Neither is a wormhole an imagined object as you are claiming. General Relativity (GR) allows for their existence.Therefore the possible existence of wormholes forms part of GR, so it is not even a separate hypothesis.

Therefore wormholes are not just figments of someone's imagination as you seem to be expousing, it is theoretically possible they exist. To claim they don't exist or are imagined objects is scientific ignorance.
To prove they don't exist you would have to search the whole Universe or prove GR wrong (Good luck with those scenarios).

BTW
All hypotheses are theories, but not all theories are hypotheses.
 CTRLvector
Joined: 9/21/2014
Msg: 27
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/25/2014 12:59:12 AM
Maybe in quantum foam wormholes exist to phase time in terms of relativity, but I think they are useless, and will never be manipulated with success.

Time travel forward based on speed and distance from mass or various other effecting conditions could in theory be achieved. And actually is when you go into space, although so minimally that who cares. What you have to do is park yourself closed to a black hole.

Time travel to the past? Improbable, creates a mad scientist paradox where if travel to the past is achieved. And the mad scientist killed himself as an infant, the process would never have been initiated in the first place. Changing something in the past, creates too many complications. It creates an existence that has to be processed, it would have to create a new universe relative to the point of location and then time would have to progress from there. Or be impossible to achieve. I think impossible.
 awesomefiftyman
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 28
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/25/2014 1:00:00 AM
You have it backwards Robaustralia.
We see the sun. We feel the sun.
The sun is a phenomena that we can measure and test.
Where is this worm hole that you profess to exist?
If you can't measure it, it doesn't exist.
Nice theory though.

Heard about the Flying Dragons that burp worm holes?

Regardless,
even if we found a worm hole,
it would be too far away for us to attempt to use it to travel time.
 CTRLvector
Joined: 9/21/2014
Msg: 29
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/25/2014 1:45:33 AM
In quantum mechanics there is a concept of quantum foam. And that is to progress time and space relative to phasing out of what would be the past, keeping you present, achieved at a scope so small it will probably never be observed. If the foam didn't exist for matter to progress, then you might be langolier food, trapped in frozen past.

So if you manipulated an massively complex process, and were able to take the foam and scale up. Achieve that impossible task of increased scale, and whatever factors apply. You could project you into past or future time, but being destroyed to stuck in a loophole where existence is torture, time existing without relevance, and no access to porno.
 robaustralia
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 30
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/25/2014 2:27:22 AM
MSG29
I never said wormholes exist. You are the one claiming they don't exist because we can't measure one.

We can't measure the effects of Global Warming, Asteroid Impacts or a Nuclear Winter (excepting if they happen). So using your logic would mean that those phenomena can never exist because we can't measure them.
 CTRLvector
Joined: 9/21/2014
Msg: 31
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/25/2014 3:23:42 PM
I don't know man, I think we got more issues with population getting way, seriously, out of hand. You know that's more hauling of food, more resources (we uh, are running out) ya know, but hey population goes on.

You got cyber attacks trying to take down US trade markets and the power grid, which is pretty scary just as it is. Bio-engineering of virus's, and I think there was some Russian freak that almost got something smuggled out and sold of their version of the CDC.

You got everything, natural disasters, its a lot of bad, and FIMA sucks, but they were probably created to fail. Just as long as it looks like you're doing something.

So yeah, bug out bag, medkit, rations, water, crossbow, and winter gear tested to freezing.
 awesomefiftyman
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 32
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/25/2014 8:45:05 PM

robaustralia
MSG29
I never said wormholes exist. You are the one claiming they don't exist because we can't measure one.

We can't measure the effects of Global Warming, Asteroid Impacts or a Nuclear Winter (excepting if they happen). So using your logic would mean that those phenomena can never exist because we can't measure them.


robaustralia

Um,
1. We are currently measuring the phenomena called "global warming".
If the Earth is warming, we can tell.
Generally, warmth is measured. The effects of that warmth is seen and felt.

Glaciers are melting.
We can see that visually and have historic measurements of these events.
The sea level is rising.
Kiribati is about halfway between Hawaii and Australia and is made up of 32 low-lying atolls and one raised island. Most of its population has already moved to one island, Tarawam, after the rest of their land disappeared beneath the ocean.

2. Asteroid Impacts - Past asteroid impacts have been studied.
It's basic physics/math to estimate the future effect of an object, using mass, speed and trajectory.
In physics, the kinetic energy of an object is the energy that it possesses due to its motion.
The kinetic energy of the falling object is converted to the explosion when it hits.
We studied this in high school physics with elastic and inelastic collisions.

We have evidence of asteroids hitting the Earth in the past.
Stony asteroids with a diameter of 4 meters (13 ft) impact Earth approximately once per year. Asteroids with a diameter of 7 meters enter Earth's atmosphere with as much kinetic energy as Little Boy (the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima, approximately 16 kilotons of TNT) about every 5 years, but the air burst only generates a much reduced 5 kilotons of TNT. These ordinarily explode in the upper atmosphere, and most or all of the solids are vaporized. Objects with a diameter of roughly 50 m (164 ft) strike Earth approximately once every thousand years, producing explosions comparable to the one known to have detonated roughly 8.5 kilometers (28,000 ft) above Tunguska in 1908.


3. Future nuclear winters can be estimated depending on the size, number of and location of impact of said nuclear missiles.
The nuclear winter scenario assumes that if 100 or more city firestorms, are ignited by the nuclear explosions of a nuclear war, and the firestorms lift large enough amounts of sooty smoke into the upper troposphere and lower stratosphere, soot lifted by the movement offered by the pyrocumulonimbus clouds that form during a firestorm. At 10–15 kilometres (6–9 miles) above the Earth's surface, the absorption of sunlight could further heat the soot in the smoke, lifting some, or all of it, into the stratosphere, where the smoke could persist for years, if there is no rain to wash it out. This aerosol of particles could heat the stratosphere and block out a portion of the sun's light from reaching the surface, with this causing surface temperatures to drop drastically, and with that, it is predicted surface air temperatures would be akin to, or colder than, a given region's winter, for months to years on end.
~~~
1. Temperature exists. We feel that phenomena and measure it. < Global warming.
2. Impacts/collisions exists. We've witnessed them and the extent of damage has been studied and estimated. < Asteroids
3. We built the damn nuclear missiles. They are like asteroids, in regards to the material thrown in the atmosphere to produce an ice age/nuclear winter. We've studied the past ice ages.
~~~

Worm holes?
A phenomena never observed because we dreamed them up and only supported the dream with math.
Because we "imagined" them….
1. We don't even know what they would be made of. Scientists fill in that huge blank by just calling it "Exotic material". That leaves a lot of BIG holes in the math because we don't know what we would be measuring/observing, etc.
2. The math that proved that a worm hole could exist, also predicted that it would be unstable and collapse, thus, any human would die trying to use it as a vehicle to travel time.
3. The math only showed what you would need mathematically to travel faster than the speed of light. AND what we need has never been observed. It was dreamed up.

In summary,
the math only suggested what was needed to travel faster than the speed of light for humans to time travel.
BUT again, what was needed,
the "exotic material" the worm hole would be made of,
doesn't exist because we don't know what it would be.

Therefore,
a worm hole does not exist
because the so-called theoretical measurements rely on "exotic material" that doesn't exist.


hy·po·thet·i·cal - can be of phenomena or noumenon

We can sense phenomena, be it our senses or technological equipment. The sun. Global warming. Asteroids and collisions. Nuclear bombs, explosions and after effects. We can even predict future effects because of our experience with these phenomenas.

We can't sense noumenon. It's all just written on paper or calculated on computers. Worm holes don't exist. We can't truly, accurately predict what they would do, as we have no experience with them.

And once again, if we ever discover a worm hole to support the math that supported the dream... we will never be able to use it to travel faster than the speed of light because we would have to travel light speed to reach it.

 robaustralia
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 33
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/26/2014 5:04:53 AM
MSG 33

Your argumentum ad nauseum is really boring! It goes like this

Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.

You have told yourself so many times you believe it. Trouble is you have offered no proof whatsoever of the non existence of wormholes , other than your unsubstantiated opinion.Have you searched the whole Universe and not found one? You must have travelled faster than light speed to achieve that!

Which leads me to your caveat about if a wormhole is ever discovered we would have to travel light speed to reach it. That is a load of coprolite.If a wormhole appeared between the Earth and the Moon, there would be no need for light speed travel to reach it.

Why don't you try some intellectual honesty, it goes like this "I don't know what I don't know". In other words , "I am reasonably certain that wormholes don't exist, however I cannot conclusively rule out the possibility".

Much better than trolling like this.

Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
 awesomefiftyman
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 34
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/26/2014 11:29:26 AM
Your Ad Hominem attack is boring.
LOL
English comprehension problems Robaustralia?
Funny, I wrote more than what only you want to see AND I wasn't quoting my opinion.
I was copying and posting the theoretical hypotheses of scientists.
I guess you missed that fact.

LOL
If a worm hole appeared between the Earth and the Moon.....
OK........
so let's start spending money to build our worm hole/time travel ship for that "noumenon" to magically appear...for no apparent reason...except to fulfill a fantasy...like that Hollywood movie "Intertellar". ....(Rollin' my eyes)

But do dream on Robaustralia, I'm OK with that.

I can play the "I cannot conclusively rule out the possibility" game
BUT you do realize ....that will open "Pandora's Box" of ALL possibilities right?

Therefore,
for you atheists in the crowd,
One cannot rule out an omnipotent being. (God/Goddess/asexual creator)
One cannot rule out the Flying Dragons that burp worm holes.
I could go on but you get the picture...or maybe you have some kind of ....perceptual dysfunction?
 robaustralia
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 35
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/27/2014 6:40:43 AM
MSG 35

Pointing out your argumentum ad nauseum is not an ad hominem, it's a fact.

You haven't provided any proof that wormholes don't exist, other than.

Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.

Which doesn't count.
 awesomefiftyman
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 36
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/27/2014 10:33:25 AM
Robaustralia
Pointing out your argumentum ad nauseum is not an ad hominem, it's a fact.

You haven't provided any proof that wormholes don't exist, other than.

Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.
Wormholes don't exist.

Which doesn't count.


Robaustralia,
neither you, anyone on this forum or any scientist on Earth has provided any concrete, factual evidence that worm holes exist, as a phenomena.
It's just a mathematical, imaginary dream.

Until someone actually discovers a worm hole or Flying Dragons that burp worm holes,
neither exist but in our imagination and play of numbers to support our wild imagination.

You haven't provided any proof that wormholes do exist.
 robaustralia
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 37
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/28/2014 1:53:40 PM
^^^^^^^^^^
No use replying as awesome50man has left the building, hope he shut the door behind him.

My hypothesis would be that his mum deleted his profile and confiscated his computer for posing as an adult.
 Countryheart1967
Joined: 5/19/2014
Msg: 38
view profile
History
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/28/2014 11:47:13 PM

Wormholes don't exist.


Not taking sides here as in the end it could go either way.
However, to say they don't because we cant find any or take measurments is a little absurd. :/

There was a time when doctors wore a mask during plauges because they were beging to understand that there might possibly be something unseen. Low and behold bacteria and virus were eventually discovered. Previously they could not be observed, measured, tasted, touched, or what have you... in the end it didn't make them any less real. Who knew about molecules in, lets say, the 1500's? Couldn't see them or find them let alone measure them, but yet, here they are. Then we find that those are made from atoms and then dicover that atoms may be comprised of quarks(?) (not sure if that's correct, the name slips my mind at the momment).

If wormholes don't exist, then they don't exist. The logic being used to argue they don't is flawed, that same logic has been used since the dawn of science. Science would have stagnated long, long ago using that logic.

Like I said, I'm not taking sides here, if the brightest minds in science haven't figuered it out then I'm sure as heck not going to.
Just trying to keep it in perspective. ;)
 Countryheart1967
Joined: 5/19/2014
Msg: 39
view profile
History
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/28/2014 11:59:04 PM
Yep, Quarks is correct. Though I skipped past protons, neutrons, and electrons... it's late and I'm tired.

Does kinda make you wonder where it will end, how small can it go? Notice the resemblance of atom formations to formations in space?
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 40
view profile
History
hy·po·thet·i·cal
Posted: 12/29/2014 12:14:26 AM

Does kinda make you wonder where it will end, how small can it go?

Planck scale.

Notice the resemblance of atom formations to formations in space?

Atomic orbitals don't really resemble planets with orbiting satellites. That is an obsolete model from over a century ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital
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