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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Solar power indifference      Home login  
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 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 26
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Solar power indifferencePage 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Distributed/rooftop solar is very much in its infancy, esp in those states where there is a corporate/Repug strategy to protect the monopoly or cartel of centralized electric and coal power by blocking, penalizing distributed solar.

From AZ to FL, all red states with an abundance of sun, there is almost no promotion of distributed solar. And red states are reducing or killing their RETs (renewable energy targets). As always the Repugs and right-wing are on the wrong side of history, and with positions and strategy contrary to the the majority of Americans.

IEEE has a great section on renewables: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables

Solar thermal is currently halted by a few dead birds fried to death, while domestic and feral house cats kill 100Ms per year with no outcry. There are 100Ks, Ms?, of birds, ducks, geese are killed by landing in fracking waste water pools and wildlife killed by toxic coal ash. No outcry to stop fracking.

In states like CA where electric utilities have been politically forced to accept it, rooftop solar has met widespread acceptance, not "indifference".

The biggest impediments to renewables are political, not financial. The grid is "dumb" now, and even dumber about how to manage distributed and other renewable energy sources, and it needs vastly expanding to areas where wind turbines could be built but aren't due to lack of transmission lines. Another grid restriction is getting EXCESS wind electricity to areas that want to buy it.
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 27
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Solar power indifference
Posted: 12/25/2014 3:11:23 PM
"After 20 years of studying lithium, we pretty much know how it flows in the system"

There's a LOT of battery research in progress, using "known" materials like lithium, and different and/or cheaper materials, for electrolyte, anodes, cathodes.

It sure appears that nano-level materials engineering will change everything, will be where the transformative battery, energy storage breakthroughs occur.

Nano level in biology is also where I expect a lot new drugs, therapies will occur.

Same with fuel cell research. It looks like the hybrid car sales have leveled off, while all the big mfrs are betting on, coming out with FCVs in the next couple years. Hydrogen initially from nat gas, but new sources will arrive as the FCV demand increases.
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 28
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Solar power indifference
Posted: 12/26/2014 1:43:12 PM
again, "indifference" isn't the obstacle, politicians and their BigCarbon/corporate owners are

Why Do Some US States Have Higher Rooftop Solar Installation Than Others?

goo.gl/FBHBWa
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 29
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Solar power indifference
Posted: 12/26/2014 3:11:49 PM
I think there are several explanatory vectors involved with this.

One is the mechanical vector, the practicality aspects of it all, which are much more complicated than have been mentioned so far. suffice it to say, the difficulties and complexity of startup of all alternate energy systems is financially prohibitive, and/or comprehensibly stressful. In short, it's very hard to convert to alternate energy systems. It's not hard at all, not to.

Another is the political vector. There is always a political vector, and with alternate energy concepts, there could be said to be more than one political vector. One of the political vectors, is best described as the "anti-whatever-those-guys-say" forces. Alternate energy systems are opposed because they are supported by people these folks already hate, and no matter how much logic or facts are marshaled, this vector will remain firmly opposed.

The supporting political vector actually contributes some of the resistance to A.E. systems. Enthusiastic people pushing something, often drive people away, both because they try too hard and thereby seem ingenuous, and because they are really annoying. Trying to persuade someone by way of making them feel guilty, triggers resentment instead, at least 75% of the time.

Another way to come at this question, is to study big changes which did "take off." One possible good example, is satellite television. Like A.E., it was around as an option for a very long time, before most people became interested in it. It offered a vastly superior TV experience over cable, and at least a comparable subscription cost. But the large dishes involved, and the amount of initial setup costs were prohibitive for most people. A large learning curve was required to set things up, and even after everything was set up, users had to have much more tech knowledge to use the systems.

Then the small dish systems arrived. At first, they moved slowly too, even though they eliminated most of the complexity issues, by being standardized, and by BEING small. Most important, using a small-dish system didn't require a change of lifestyle for the users. All they had to do was use the same kind of remote they had with cable. The signal came in and acted the same way inside their house as they already knew how to deal with. The last big element fell into place when the vendors took away the start-up mountain. Once the dishes were free (or paid for as part of the subscription) , things took off nicely.

Cell phone systems took off for the same basic reasons. When mobile phones required a huge expensive rig that filled your trunk, as well as special dialing systems to make things work, only a very few people bought them. When all you had to do was sign up for a subscription and dial the same numbers you always did, people went for them.

Home computers were the same. One element that their success pointed out, was the effect of Industry Standardization. There is none yet in the A.E. world. Home computing took off, not because the capabilities of the computers were all that great, but because IBM established an open standard PC that everyone could believe in, because there was a big famous company calling the shots. The market didn't fracture into competing standards and destroy itself, because vendors didn't have to reinvent everything (to avoid patent infringements or licensing fees) every time they had a new idea.
 awesomefiftyman
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 30
Solar power indifference
Posted: 12/26/2014 6:23:47 PM

One is the mechanical vector, the practicality aspects of it all, which are much more complicated than have been mentioned so far.


It is actually quite simple.
Just hire an electrician and don't let all that so-called complicated electrical stuff give you a headache.


the difficulties and complexity of startup of all alternate energy systems is financially prohibitive


Depends on what you value.
Don't buy marble/granite countertops.
Don't electric heat your driveway. Use a shovel.
Basically, quit wasting money on expensive frills
that only people that want to impress others and keep up with the Jones waste money on.


Alternate energy systems are opposed because they are supported by people these folks already hate, and no matter how much logic or facts are marshaled, this vector will remain firmly opposed.


In summary, society has too many idiots.
But their illogical hate-filled rejection of a good thing is their problem.

The rest of what you write simply means that, in time, solar power (renewable energy) will prevail.
 awesomefiftyman
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 31
Solar power indifference
Posted: 12/26/2014 11:43:28 PM
andyaa
Think you need to stop kidding yourselves over these electric vehicles.

To charge something like a tesla in 5 minutes with the 85 kWh batteries you'd need about a megawatt of power, that's 100 amps at 10,000 volts!

You are going to need a cable like an elephants trunk and a throw switch immersed in oil to prevent arking and balls the size of grapefruits to be brave enough to do this. The heat you're going to generate will be tremendous.

Imagine kids playing about with these chargers on the forecourt?... bang, what was that? Don't know but it's gone!

Sorry bud, reality check needed.


andyaa,
you need to stop pretending that you know what you are talking about.

100 amps only requires a wire no bigger than my finger. Actually nowhere near size of my finger.
Try googling the information before making such silly posts.
Google size of copper wire for 100 amps.
The diameter of that wire is 0.283 inches - or 7.1882mm to 9.05mm in diameter. Say a centimeter.
http://www.clyndercables.co.uk/specifications_ul1015_trirated_trirate_double_insulated_2491X_6491X_2491B.php

Cables the size of an elephants trunk, like an overhead high voltage power line can be 1,000+ amps!

And no one made the silly claim of charging the Tesla in 5 minutes…except you andyaa.
Next time, just Google Tesla.
You will see that the Tesla 120kW SuperCharger will take 30 minutes to charge an 85 KWH battery to go 170 miles.
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/supercharger
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 32
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Solar power indifference
Posted: 12/29/2014 2:45:44 AM
"After 20 years of studying lithium, we pretty much know how it flows in the system"

Team achieves ‘holy grail’ of battery design: A stable lithium anode

http://scienceblog.com/73597/team-achieves-holy-grail-battery-design-stable-lithium-anode/#mBWERaHLEM4FdGoR.97
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 33
Solar power indifference
Posted: 12/30/2014 1:31:57 PM

Well we're comparing like for like, gas v electric. I can fill my tank up in 5 minutes. If you want to get anywhere near that recharge rate, you are going to need a lot of power very quickly


Or take advantage of the Tesla Battery Swap program where you pull up, they remove your old battery and put in a fully charged one.

Now this is a new program that is being tested in Cal, but going forward this or other means are just another way that will pave the future of electric cars.
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 35
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Solar power indifference
Posted: 12/31/2014 10:14:59 AM
several majors are preparing FCVs for the next couple years, as hybrids hit a ceiling, but Repugs have let the $8000 tax credit for FCV expire. Repugs want to protect BigOil, the polluting status quo.
 1OdDmAnOuT2
Joined: 12/29/2014
Msg: 36
Solar power indifference
Posted: 1/1/2015 3:09:23 PM
Despite some indifference, the future is still moving towards solar power.
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/09/15/india-considers-adding-20-gw-capacity-ultra-mega-solar-power-projects/

And the future will be electric cars, sooner or later.
As for Tesla, given that they have started construction on their gigafactory that is intended to produce 500,000 battery packs a year, I doubt the naysayers here know what they are talking about.
 Countryheart1967
Joined: 5/19/2014
Msg: 37
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Solar power indifference
Posted: 1/1/2015 4:50:20 PM

There's also a ton of people who can


There's also a ton of that ton that are in credit card debt up to their eyeballs from living beyond their means. I still love them though, gives me a good chance to pick one up at a good price later. :)
 1OdDmAnOuT2
Joined: 12/29/2014
Msg: 38
Solar power indifference
Posted: 1/1/2015 10:46:41 PM

Hydrogen fuel celled cars already qualify for the highest zero emission vehicle credits as they can do over 300 miles and can be filled in less than 15 minutes, something that is physically impossible for batteries as outlined earlier.


Can you please direct me to the nearest car dealer/manufacturer that sells hydrogen fuel celled cars.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 39
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Solar power indifference
Posted: 1/1/2015 11:14:21 PM

Can you please direct me to the nearest car dealer/manufacturer that sells hydrogen fuel celled cars.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucsonfuelcell/

Not that H2 is an argument against solar power.
 1OdDmAnOuT2
Joined: 12/29/2014
Msg: 40
Hydrogen Fuel car indifference
Posted: 1/1/2015 11:38:19 PM
Thanks but
I guess I can say that I am "indifferent" to this Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell car because
it is only being leased in Southern California.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 41
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Hydrogen Fuel car indifference
Posted: 1/1/2015 11:45:04 PM
Oh, sorry... didn't see you were in Luxembourg. Try a different one then - Fiat Panda or Peugeot H2Origin maybe?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fuel_cell_vehicles

If you can wait till September the Toyota Mirai will be available in Germany.
 1OdDmAnOuT2
Joined: 12/29/2014
Msg: 42
Hydrogen Fuel car indifference
Posted: 1/2/2015 12:09:34 AM
Again I am indifferent to hydrogen fuel cell cars because no one sells them.
The ones you listed are concept cars. Except Toyota Mirai.
And no hydrogen fuelling stations available in Luxembourg.

http://www.wort.lu/en/luxembourg/luxembourg-installs-more-charging-stations-for-its-90-electric-cars-528240fce4b0837df2736bf6


Published on Tuesday, 12 November, 2013 at 15:53

(MSS) Another three electric car charging stations were installed in Luxembourg city on Tuesday morning, pursuing future plans to reduce carbon emissions with a goal of having 10 percent of cars in Luxembourg be electric by 2020.

By 2012, 90 electric cars were registered in Luxembourg – that's not a lot, but the number is slowly growing and electric vehicles are becoming increasingly popular, with Luxembourg City using hybrid public buses, for example.

What's growing faster than the number of electric cars perhaps, is the number of charging stations, where carbon neutral car owners can recharge their vehicles, as another three were installed at the Rond-Point Schuman, Rocade de Bonnevoie and at Park and Ride Bouillon on Tuesday.

That makes a total of 41 charging stations in Luxembourg so far, meaning electric car owners probably won't have to worry about long queues pulling over to recharge, as there are just over two electric cars per charging station in the Grand Duchy.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 43
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Hydrogen Fuel car indifference
Posted: 1/2/2015 12:27:38 AM
You can produce horsepower by creating water, but you need a condenser if you want a drink.

I've already listed the Hyundai Tucson and the Toyota Mirai... these are the only ones in commercial production now since the Honda FCX Clarity has been stopped. If you want more options you'll just have to be patient.
 1OdDmAnOuT2
Joined: 12/29/2014
Msg: 44
Electric car is available and practical
Posted: 1/2/2015 12:36:15 AM
For now my interests still lie with the electric car.
Can't be indifferent with something I can buy and have available fuelling stations.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 45
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Hydrogen Fuel car indifference
Posted: 1/2/2015 12:37:36 AM
That makes perfect sense, because we all know it's only possible to be interested in one thing at a time...
 1OdDmAnOuT2
Joined: 12/29/2014
Msg: 46
Electric car is available and practical
Posted: 1/2/2015 1:21:27 AM
Actually, it makes perfect sense because I cannot currently drive something that does not exist yet.
I am interested in reading about hydrogen fuel cells and many other things.
The indifference with them is that they are not practical for me yet.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 47
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Electric car is available and practical
Posted: 1/2/2015 1:51:54 AM

Actually, it makes perfect sense because I cannot currently drive something that does not exist yet.

If by 'does not exist yet' you really mean 'are not freely available in Luxembourg yet', you would be correct. If by 'does not exist yet' you really mean 'the technology is not sufficiently advanced to have entered commercial production', you would be incorrect.

The indifference with them is that they are not practical for me yet.

If I was indifferent to everything that wasn't practical solely for me, I wouldn't have much left to be different about.
 1OdDmAnOuT2
Joined: 12/29/2014
Msg: 48
Electric car is available and practical
Posted: 1/2/2015 2:24:00 AM
Oh shut the **** up gingerosity
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 49
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Electric car is available and practical
Posted: 1/2/2015 2:34:02 AM
Did you know, with just 10% of the equivalent soya grown in the USA put over to algae hydrogen production, you would displace the use of petrol used by cars in America.

Now you've come full-circle... algae is solar powered! lol
 1OdDmAnOuT2
Joined: 12/29/2014
Msg: 50
Electric car is available and practical
Posted: 1/2/2015 2:37:23 AM

Now you've come full-circle... algae is solar powered! lol


But kudos here gingerosity
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