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 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 126
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Atheism, dating and relationshipsPage 6 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)
Now, now pank.....

Who are WE to say that self-flagellation is/isn't the way to go....and last I checked....Religion doesn't have the market cornered on hypocrisy....lol

Let me be clear and say that I PERSONALLY believe in no religion or specific "God"...but if somebody wants to believe that there's a deity somewhere "up there" who is interested in ALL of their daily activities and every single thought they think and minor action they take, kinda like Santa Claus, well, who am I to say different???
lol
I just know that for ME, I'll take Stephen Hawking's word for it that there is no "God" such as described in human religions....
After all, he IS the smartest man in the world.... :-)
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 127
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 6:20:37 AM

I would actually prefer if certain people continue to focus on their differences to the point of violence, thereby killing each other off without too much delay.


The "without too much delay" has been going on for hundreds of years among feuding nations-where generation after generation are taught to hate and be willing to kill the government labelled enemy, that's suppose to be a quick and easy task. As for locally, I don't know if vigilantism or the "shootout at the OK Corral" type of justice is the right way to go. Too much chance of innocent people getting hurt. But I agree with the sentiment of having no pity for criminals who kill each other in a turf war, or power struggle, or big drug deal gone wrong.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 128
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 6:21:56 AM
I think the whole atheist Vs religions conundrum is an example of the burden we human have inherited as a result of our intellect and ability to reason.

One the one hand, if there is nothing more to life than biochemical existence, we live, we eat, we procreate then die, what really is the point of life? Of accomplishment? Why be moral? We live a mere 100 years, while the earth goes on for millions of years. Once we die in a generation no one knows who we were.

While those that believe in a religion are generally reported to be happier, those that pray are generally observed to be healthier human beings.

Atheists are more prone to despair and suicide, while religions affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients.

While a lot of human suffering can be traced to religion, such as the crusades and the Spanish inquisition, even more suffering has been inflicted by those states which completely reject God and religious affliction. Such as Pol Pot and his drive to exterminate all intellectuals in Cambodia, causing the death of 25 percent the entire population of Cambodia.

It truly is a conundrum, to believe and be happier or not to believe and feel one is the more rational human?
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 129
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 6:22:43 AM
@Dee
Agree.LDS people coming to my door are a minor inconvenience.JC(superstar)was a man.As history book(which I never consult these days)the bible is quite telling.Sodom and Gomorrah were real places.The story of when that family visited and were set upon by people trying to buy sexual favors of all manner....simply illustrates the cold hard manner in which the world can become....


hopefully this doesn't cause any aetheists to suffer a stroke this morning. :)
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 130
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 6:40:17 AM

While those that believe in a religion are generally reported to be happier, those that pray are generally observed to be healthier human beings.
Atheists are more prone to despair and suicide, while religions affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients.


I'll take a wild guess by saying any study of the quality and quantity of life in religious versus non-religious people was done or funded by a religious organization. No bias there-right? I don't know of any hospital or health care facility where it's required for patients to reveal their religious affiliation. Some private hospitals in the U.S. that are funded by the church might ask, but no public hospitals should ask.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 131
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 7:14:53 AM

No bias there-right? I don't know of any hospital or health care facility where it's required for patients to reveal their religious affiliation.


You can use google right? Look it up yourself.

Hospitals all seem to ask if you have a religious affiliation they should be aware of, but it's legally not required that you answer. However I am not sure what that has to do with anything.

BTW, I don't think there are any atheists funded hospitals so we can't do that comparison.

Like any generality, no doubt there are many excpetions, and the report I looked at examined patients that were already depressed, but I can be objective about the benefits of being religious. People have created and joined religions since the dawn of time, it must have some benefits.

I am not a fan of Christianity, and started a thread about that.

Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts15291422.aspx
 CuriousInDB
Joined: 7/12/2014
Msg: 132
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 7:58:03 AM

BTW, I don't think there are any atheists funded hospitals so we can't do that comparison.


Atheists have funded hospitals and all sorts of other things all over the world by donation and fund-raising and patronage.



It truly is a conundrum, to believe and be happier or not to believe and feel one is the more rational human?


I'm one of the happiest people I know and I'm rational. If the insanity that is religion were not so pervasive in this world, perhaps more people could answer other questions you've posed along the lines of "what is the point"? That is such a barren, stark way of looking at life without superstition and mass delusion/brainwashing.

"Creative minds always have been shown to survive any kind of bad training." Anna Freud
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 133
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 9:05:13 AM

BTW, I don't think there are any atheists funded hospitals so we can't do that comparison.


Unlike United States, the rest of the civilized world has universal health care systems, which means the tax payer pays for the health care system. Being in Canada, if I see a doctor or need treatment in a hospital, it never costs me anything-as in direct payment to any heath care system or provider. I don't think there are very many atheists who don't pay taxes.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 134
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 9:26:05 AM

Unlike United States, the rest of the civilized world has universal health care systems, which means the tax payer pays for the health care system. Being in Canada, if I see a doctor or need treatment in a hospital, it never costs me anything-as in direct payment to any heath care system or provider. I don't think there are very many atheists who don't pay taxes.


What, no atheists tax deduction in Canada? I have been lobbing for a tax rebate to confirmed atheists to compensate for the tax free status of Churches.

I agree, IMO for the money the USA has the worst health care system in the world for the middle class and lower population.

But if you are part of the wealthy and can afford the best, USA is the best.

I got eye surgery at Bumrungrad International in Bangkok and dental at Roomchang dental in Cambodia. A root canal at Roomchang is $400 and implants range from 1000-1600 total.
 Olympian2121
Joined: 9/21/2014
Msg: 135
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 9:45:44 AM
Religion shouldn't be in our schools and especially not in our politics.
People for the most part are more educated today and with the amount of information we have we can see that there is a reasonable scientific explanation for everything. Were not dumb anymore where we need to explain everything away with "its god's will" "God created it"

Its like when youre tired of answering your 6 year olds constant questions and you resort to "just because!"

I can picture way back in the day some scruffy nerfherder named jesus, being smarted than the average peasants around him having to answer all the dullard's questions of " why " why" " how" that he got fed up and just said "ok listen, everything that happens is because theres is a dude who created everything and he does what he wants ok?"

"where is he?"

"you cant see him hes invisible"

and so with their minds blown they kept following him around he gave in and decided to create a cult.

P.S I always loved Catholic school chicks because they were the easiest.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 136
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History
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 9:46:42 AM
Hospitals ask for your religious affiliation so they can have the clergy-of-the day come and visit you. They will usually ask you if you want someone to visit you. Atheists are just as likely to be supporting a cause they believe in, they just don't ask anyone to use their donations to further the business of religion. Christians have no better numbers of good, decent people than it does of murderers/rapists/etc. POS claiming religious beliefs or lack there of has no bearing on someone having a good or bad character. Prisons are full of horrible human beings who claim a religion.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 137
Atheism, dating and relationshipsuite
Posted: 1/7/2015 10:08:53 AM
poster 132 says:



No, some very evil people are also Christians.


You judge a person based upon his/her deeds; and not what they claim to call themselves.
Unless you can demonstrate what passage in the Christian Bible where Jesus calls for commiting acts of evil, then whoever commits such acts is clearly a false practitioner.
...................................

poster 130 says:



But I forgot all Christians are evil human beings. Because I've apparently seen churches hold food drives, clothing drives, open their doors to people when they had nowhere else to stay or do anything positive whatsoever in communities. The church I go to are all ***holes who apparently never have done anything at all when it comes to helping others because we never held Vacation Bible studies, have community cookouts, have blood drives, have free AIDS test, hand out free condoms or anything else. With logic like that why have an debate? If you have to use the "Hitler ate sugar" trope then you've lost already.


^ good post!
Nice to see we still have posters with some good insight every once in a while!
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 138
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 10:11:36 AM

dragonbytes you are very ignorant. Your posts serve to remind me exactly why I don't date and befriend irrational, superstitious, non-skeptics.


I am a non-denominational skeptic.

Equally skeptical about aggressive theists and atheists. But you maybe interested in the article link at the end of this post that gives a rational reason for having a metaphysical outlook.

I don't believe in ghosts, angels, horoscopes, reincarnation, god etc. But that isn't to say most people aren't happier when they do believe. I think it would be easier, more reassuring and mentally healthier to believe in a higher power.

But I have a vague belief in karma, and my thinking is being a Buddhist is the least objectionable belief system I can find, so some time ago I decided to be a Buddhist.

But it's easy to find medical studies that say those that have beliefs have better health outcomes.

It's hard to find someone that isn't irrational about something, be it democrats Vs republican, Peta animal rights groups, or aliens that are visiting earth and leaving crop circles.

BTW, I think most of the signs of poor health start to turn up after 50 and get progressively worse after 65 or so, so most are too young to yet see the full effects.
========================================================
What may make religion different from mundane thoughts about one’s parents are contemplative traditions, such as meditation and prayer, which have the potential to change how the brain is wired among regular practitioners, says University of Wisconsin psychologist Richard Davidson, PhD. His work using both fMRI and EEG to measure brain activity of long-term Buddhist meditation practitioners during meditation shows that they have a stronger and better organized attention system than people who are just learning how to meditate. In essence, meditation — and perhaps any contemplative spiritual practice — enhances attention and turns off the areas of the brain that focus on the self.

“Meditation is a family of mental exercises that change the circuits in the brain involved in regulation of emotion and attention,” he says.

Even religion without a contemplative element may change certain brain circuits, according to research by University of Toronto psychologist Michael Inzlicht, PhD. His work focuses on a brain wave generated by the anterior cingulate cortex, called “error-related negativity” (ERN), which spikes when people make mistakes.

“This difference occurs in only a few hundredths of a second, but we propose that a lifetime of having less intense reactions can lead to a lifetime of being calmer,” says Inzlicht.

These findings mesh with a large body of research and clinical reports that religious people are less prone to depression and anxiety, says Plante, editor of the book “Contemplative Practices in Action: Spirituality, Meditation, and Health” (APA, 2010). “Adaptive spiritual practices can be a foil to anxiety and depression,” Plante says.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/12/believe.aspx

=====================================================

Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke

WHILE MILITANT ATHEISTS like Richard Dawkins may be convinced God doesn’t exist, God, if he is around, may be amused to find that atheists might not exist.

Cognitive scientists are becoming increasingly aware that a metaphysical outlook may be so deeply ingrained in human thought processes that it cannot be expunged.

While this idea may seem outlandish—after all, it seems easy to decide not to believe in God—evidence from several disciplines indicates that what you actually believe is not a decision you make for yourself. Your fundamental beliefs are decided by much deeper levels of consciousness, and some may well be more or less set in stone.

This line of thought has led to some scientists claiming that “atheism is psychologically impossible because of the way humans think,” says Graham Lawton, an avowed atheist himself, writing in the New Scientist. “They point to studies showing, for example, that even people who claim to be committed atheists tacitly hold religious beliefs, such as the existence of an immortal soul.”

This shouldn’t come as a surprise, since we are born believers, not atheists, scientists say. Humans are pattern-seekers from birth, with a belief in karma, or cosmic justice, as our default setting. “A slew of cognitive traits predisposes us to faith,” writes Pascal Boyer in Nature, the science journal, adding that people “are only aware of some of their religious ideas”.

..............
If a tendency to believe in the reality of an intangible network is so deeply wired into humanity, the implication is that it must have an evolutionary purpose. Social scientists have long believed that the emotional depth and complexity of the human mind means that mindful, self-aware people necessarily suffer from deep existential dread. Spiritual beliefs evolved over thousands of years as nature’s way to help us balance this out and go on functioning.

If a loved one dies, even many anti-religious people usually feel a need for a farewell ritual, complete with readings from old books and intoned declarations that are not unlike prayers. In war situations, commanders frequently comment that atheist soldiers pray far more than they think they do.

............

It further suggests that the difference between the atheist and the non-atheist viewpoint is much smaller than probably either side perceives. Both groups have consciousnesses which create for themselves realities which include very similar tangible and intangible elements. It may simply be that their awareness levels and interpretations of certain surface details differ.

...........

“It’s clearly the case that the future will involve an increase in religious populations and a decrease in scepticism,” says Steve Jones, a professor in genetics at University College London, speaking at the Hay Festival in the UK recently.

http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 139
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 11:11:01 AM
Atheists are more prone to despair and suicide, while religions affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients.

Yeah, if you don't count the suicide bombers. :) I would say Buddhists lighting themselves on fire, but those are very few + many Buddhists Are atheistic.

If you RE-define "Atheist" to mean an ANTI-theist (which is incorrect, but a street-term one may apply without enough complaints) -- I agree with you. The "a" in "atheist" just means "without". Without theism. That's it. Agnostics, generally speaking, are not theists (=a-theist). A religion that does not have what constitutes a God is an atheistic one (although said religions usually have many members personally incorporate a God acting into it).

And yes, you could alternatively put fiery Old Testament Fundamentalists filled with hissing & hate -- VS those really positive, inspiring Joel Olsteen Xians -- and the latter is going to live much more happier, healthier lives than the former.

Atheists have one of the Lowest divorce rates. So? Does that mean any form of theism is 'more' bad? No. Mormons tend to live much happier lives than others (see South Park episode exemplifying that) .... does it mean one should believe that Jesus came to America and that it's 'more true' that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri, and that God made the sinners of those who originally came to America, Native American? No, of course not.

Sure, several denominations of particular religions will have it's Human Emotional Benefit -- but that has nothing to do with accuracy or truth.

And the concept of the existence of a God itself solves nothing in happiness either. Say there is one, but it doesn't care any more about you than the moon. That there is Paradise (which Xians call 'Heaven') when you die, and what happens is the same as what happens to a rat in an alley. And said God doesn't hear your wishes, and it's no more different than praying to a random leaf on the sidewalk. People who are Conditioned to believe aren't going to be happy. And they won't be Atheist. They need MORE than mere theism! They need comfort -- that Abe Lincoln and Grandmaw are awaiting them up in the sky, in some sense. :)

Or more importantly, they're "overseen" in their life. But theism itself does not grant that. At all. That's just human wishes & ideas. To maybe help keep us sane. And to justify doing what-we-want because our god (communal upbringing, thus our 'gut') tells us so. :)
 Demidar
Joined: 10/22/2014
Msg: 140
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 11:24:12 AM
What better form of control is there than to tell some one , that after they pass away they have some where else to go . Truly genius , but then can neither prove there is a supreme being nor disprove it . The newer faiths/religions basically cherry picked what they wanted from the older faiths . Example the cross , came from the Norse faith . The whole savior story was basically the same as the one about Horus , which happened about 2000 years before Jesus . Looks to me like they stole that story from an older faith .
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 141
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 1:23:35 PM

If you RE-define "Atheist" to mean an ANTI-theist (which is incorrect, but a street-term one may apply without enough complaints) -- I agree with you. The "a" in "atheist" just means "without". Without theism. That's it. Agnostics, generally speaking, are not theists (=a-theist). A religion that does not have what constitutes a God is an atheistic one (although said religions usually have many members personally incorporate a God acting into it).

And yes, you could alternatively put fiery Old Testament Fundamentalists filled with hissing & hate -- VS those really positive, inspiring Joel Olsteen Xians -- and the latter is going to live much more happier, healthier lives than the former.

Atheists have one of the Lowest divorce rates.


I didn't know atheists have one of the lowest divorce rates, it must mean something.

I really was never very comfortable with the Bible since about 12 years old. I read way too much scfi where they created new religions to fit worlds that don't exist. I just didn't have any reason to change until about 13 years ago, after I got divorced.

So it's fruitless for me to debate anything based on Christianity since I ignored it as much as I could, considering I could never really ignore it, as I was married at the time to someone raised by Catholic nuns, and we had Priests and nuns over the house on a regular basis. The first person I witnessed die was a 99 year old Priest my wife was caring for, we were both holding his hands as he breathed his last breath on Christmas eve after midnight mass. The pastor was at the Church and I went to the rectory after midnight mass to keep my wife company. I am not a believer, but in my mind she was alone and keeping her company was an important thing to do.

I knew about hospitals and how they handle religious affiliations since my ex-wife was an Eucharistic minister and used to say prayers and give communion to those too sick to leave the hospital, I went along with her several times.

Our next door neighbor was in the hospital, we visited with her, she had lung cancer and was down to 80 pounds, but was thinking about what grocery shopping she needed to do when she got home. I could see she was in denial and was never going home. When she talked about a priest wanting to administer last rites, she was reluctant to allow that, but I advised why not, it was now or never, in my mind it would give her some peace of mind as she lay dying. Not really my belief, but I am compassionate about it.

I pretty much just went along with the flow, and I became very good at never really speaking my mind and straddling several different worlds.

That was then, this is now.

I don't have any sort of dog in this fight, only to comment religion gives a lot of solace to those that believe, and most (but not all) of us believe in something.

It's not an emotional issue for me at all, I just thought people should know that having a metaphysical outlook seems to be entrenched into our genetics.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 142
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History
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 1:34:53 PM
Yes, religion is really good at dividing people, one way or the other. It's most sadistic trick is to demand that you tolerate and accept it, because otherwise it's you who does the dividing.

When you stated that you don't believe in superstition this shows you're disrespect of the religious. To get respect you have to give it

No. You should get respect because you deserve it, and/or because it's appropriate. And the idea is that many of us can't respect religion. Furthermore, you shouldn't not-respect someone just because they can't respect your religion. These kinds of things show a lack of understanding of what "respect" even is.

An atheist a vegan and a Crossfitter walk into a bar. I only know because they told everyone within two minutes

I like this joke. It's a good one, and is funny.

Except...it is wreckless. One of the things that have gotten so many to hate the religious is their habit of making sure that you know they are religious. Yet, this joke is being made about vegans and atheists and crossfitters, in the context of that part of this thread. Anybody see any dishonesty here?

...otherwise I'm replying to older comments, and I haven't been able to keep up with the whole thread. Shame. It's probably quite entertaining.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 143
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 1:56:08 PM
I just thought of something out in left field (isn't that the idea here?) I wonder if either side-pro or anti-religion-is more likely to believe that there is life on other planets in the universe. Do the pro-religious think God messed up on Earth with the human experiment, so he's taking his road show to populate other planets with who-knows-what type of life form? Or does religious and non-religious views have no bearing in believing if there's life on other planets? Is there anything in the Bible that hints at life beyond this planet-not including Heaven, Hell, and the after-life? And how would God watch every person and every life form 24/7 on multiple planets?

PS-what's a crossfitter?
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 144
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 2:25:26 PM
I'm more likely to be open to the fact there are life forms on other planets than there is/are a god/gods. We are here and we are living proof that we are here. If it confirms to me that it's possible to live on a planet under our particular circumstances, I don't see why it would be impossible for other life forms to live on other planets. I don't have proof of god/gods as I haven't been shown any form of proof. Bibles, aren't proof any more than the TV programme Ancient Aliens provides proof of aliens having been here. They are manmade writings that have been changed throughout the history of them. I view them much as I do Aesop's Fables. I'm agnostic with atheist leanings.
 pureandsimple4172
Joined: 5/2/2014
Msg: 145
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 2:41:57 PM
Those guys in Paris weren't afraid to tell you where they stand and what they believe in. 12 people were slaughtered..but those were just a couple bad apples. It's those Christians we need to be worried about.

Nobody forces anybody to go to Church here in the U.S. Nobody forces you to talk or converse with anybody about religion. If there is something on TV you do not like, change the channel. If you don't like the country you live in, there is no rule that says you have to stay there.
Nobody is being forced to do anything. ..except maybe complain.

If religion is so taboo, and you don't allow compromise in your life, then you should probably find somebody who holds similar beliefs.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 146
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 4:48:01 PM
Quiet a long time ago, I used to ponder the thoughts of aliens and God.

If there are no aliens anywhere in the universe on other planets, then we are unique and more likely a God created us.

If there are aliens and we can talk to them, what happens if they also have their own stores about a God that died for their sins. How revolutionary would that be?

If there are aliens in many places, and they don't have any sort of God myths, then it would tend to add to the doubt that God exists.

Most likely there are aliens and we can never talk to them and maybe never discover that they exist.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 147
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History
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 5:02:06 PM
I have no idea if there is life on other planets, it's certainly possible, but highly unlikely to be anything like what's considered life on Earth. I would think if there are beings on other planets that are similar to us, then there might be something to there being a creator, but I have never heard or seen anything even close to that. I am quite curious about supposed aliens in old painting and caves, etc., but I have no idea how real they are and what they actually represent. I don't believe in aliens or gods, but I am going on my own logic, I'm quite comfortable with finding out I'm wrong. If there was a god, like the type of god Christians believe in, I don't think anyone would be fooling it by claiming to be and act when they do not at all. I don't think someone who doesn't believe in this god is going to fool it by pretending to believe. If there were such a god, it would already know who you are, what you've done, what you do and if there was a hell to go with that god, we'd pretty much all end up there. Heaven would be pretty empty of teens or adults. LOL
 not_single_x
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 148
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 5:04:01 PM
daynadaze: I have no idea if there is life on other planets


Would you be surprised to learn that you're in good company?
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 149
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 5:28:08 PM
I also used to ponder those books / movies where someone makes a deal with the devil for something in return for their soul.

Now even if you don't believe souls, making a deal with the devil to trade your soul is the height of foolishness.

If the devil isn't real and there is no soul, it's just a common scam and you won't get anything.

If the devil is real, then your soul is real and immortal, and should never be traded.

Jehovah's Witnesses
When the Jehovah's Witnesses would visit, I would invite them in to chat. When they said Chirst died for my sins, I would say, that isn't much of a scarfice.

Jesus came down to earth to live as a man for 30 years, in terms of a God that lives forever, that's like a few minutes. And when Jesus died, he became God. If I knew for sure by suffering the equivalent of a short time I could die and become God forever, why is that a sacrifice? The real sacrifice is to go on living, and get old and beat up while never knowing for sure you will go to your reward in heaven.


Eventually the Jehovah's Witnesses never again came to my door.
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 150
Atheism, dating and relationships
Posted: 1/7/2015 6:00:18 PM
Agnostics, generally speaking, are not theists (=a-theist).


Don't know who posted that, but why are athiests so eager to have us as one of them? Agnosticsm covers an entire spectrum from being spiritual to being atheist. We believe that there's no proof. You can't prove a god exists, and you can't prove that a god doesn't exist (for a god to create our univers, he'd have to exist outside of our universe, we have no way to interact with or study what's beyond that border, science doesn't exactly disprove a god, but it does argue some creation beliefs... But YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah isn't the only god that people believe in. Christianity can be 100% wrong, but that doesn't mean that something with conscious thought didn't create our universe.

At the end of the day, you're going to believe something. That either there more than likely wasn't a god, or that there very possibly was a god. We're not automatically atheists, we just don't believe in the absolute that there is or isn't because we believe that we're just incapable of that answer.


Eventually the Jehovah's Witnesses never again came to my door.


ALWAYS try to convert them to YOUR religion. If you don't follow one, there's tons of non-theistic religions that are just based on the principle of being nice to each other and help people, I'm sure a lot of you would be willing to subscribe to one. Or have fun with it. In some countries, Jedi actually counts as a religion. Go with that one. It's not really the same as in the movies, just based on the ideas behind it, but there's no way they're going to take you seriously when you start talking about Jedi.
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