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Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 526
Paying for a datePage 22 of 74    (8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48)
Agreed with Charmin.

I would have paid, only because I would have offered her a bite to eat because I don't want her to ask. I offered, I'll pay.

That being said, all that flirty stuff is fine and dandy, but her making a comment about a 'Real Date' would have put me off.

Really? WTF is a Real Date? More money spent? A chance of poon?

Not impressed with the Real Date comment.

A Real Date, for this camper, happens when the touching starts, not after the sack or the check paid.

Too much emphasis from you on keeping this a Meet (less money spent) and her on landing a 'Real Date' from you.

In summary, I would have offered her a bite to eat first, paid, and not ask her out again.

It's a draw.

Men 0, Women 0
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 527
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Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 8:05:25 PM
I'm going with BBE53 on this one. Tom clearly paid for his second drink after she had her drinks that weren't paid for. No tab was established.

Her kissing you after one drink, in my opinion, is laying down the bait to make you the sucker.

She's obviously done this before and the other party has always paid the tab. If she comes back next time and doesn't pay her tab, the establishment would be wise to bar her.

Leaving before the check even comes is a red flag. The check should have came when she requested her food to be boxed.

Tom...details on the follow-up conversation with her please.
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 528
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 8:08:48 PM
You want to talk crass behavior?

Walking away from the register, after we BOTH ordered food (pay before you eat establishment). I would have paid anyway, but she did not get a 2nd date.

Or...going to the bathroom after the server says they'll bring the check.

Major Disclaimer Ladies....I don't think all women are crass :)
Joined: 10/24/2014
Msg: 529
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 8:20:02 PM
bamagrl - I worked at 3 restaurants before I turned 18. the servers and everyone work hard.

cooldog - I believe what she did was a red flag but i'll try to remember to let you know about our NEXT conversation.
**"Her kissing you after one drink, in my opinion, is laying down the bait to make you the sucker."**
I kind of agree. I thought it came pretty fast myself and I was surprised given how pretty she was. she didn't even finish the first and she leaned over to me. usually the really pretty ones make you wait for the kisses. her first smootch came after about 20 minutes or so.

on meet and greets I always pay for my own right away to establish my M.O.

I never run a tab.

she was out the door THEN the bartender pulls out the bill and asks me if i'm paying. I said, "i just met her!"

this type of conduct has never happened before. I would have paid for the drinks but the food was totally unexpected. i was supposed to pay just because I got a few kisses? pfft

she eats and I don't but I pay? odd. like Clooney in his example above I do not want to be taken for granted.

tell you guys what.... i'll be talking about who pays from now on and i'll bet it puts some women off.

but day-um she had a nice rack!!
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 530
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 8:50:31 PM
tgif111- Ok, things are clearer now, you paid cash for the drinks. (Behind blue eyes caught something I missed)
But, still, BOTH of you are guilty of lack of communication and I still stand with CharminC and the others who would have paid the bill anyway, two wrongs don't make a right and I will respect waiters and waitresses for the REST of my life, of that I am sure)
So, you are seeing her again anyway?! Gee whiz, if you two end up together, when she get's a pin code with access to your back account, make the code her bra size, neither one of you will forget it :D
(and.......... I'm out of this one, I mean, REALLY?!)
Joined: 10/24/2014
Msg: 531
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 9:03:00 PM

NOT seeing her again. ( I want to see her but = that girl done me wrong Lol)

i'll just have to fess up and tell her I didn't like to be in a position where I was left with the bill while she dashed out.

there will be drama, maybe harsh words on her part. I will take the high road and just wish her well.

make the code her bra size!!! LMAO - good one bamagrl

whoot whoot
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 532
view profile
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 9:18:51 PM

I disagree, Tom paid for his 1st drink, when he got it. Then He paid for His 2nd drink, when He got it. He never opened a 'TAB', nor did they ask about putting it on His non-existent, 'TAB'..... That should have been a 'Clue' to the Server....

Agreed..also it seems they never got a table and stayed at the bar. Unless a customer is running a tab it is cash purchases generally. He had no responsibility for HER TAB. Regardless if friends or 1st meeting etc. Nice that he went back though.

Wasn't there a forum poster who ordered take out for a gal he NEVER met but was texting with?
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 533
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 9:29:26 PM

Wasn't there a forum poster who ordered take out for a gal he NEVER met but was texting with?

The pizza and "cookie" guy?
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 534
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 9:30:24 PM
tgif111- Ok, I won't need to have your head examined.
I try not to sound judgy, but for a second I thought you had totally lost your mind, sorry If I misunderstood.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, that's one of my motto's in life and it has saved me many a heartbreak, good for you!
In all seriousness, I hope you are far enough along in life to realize that you came across ONE bad apple, don't let her spoil the whole bunch.
If she REALLY did know the people and the place, she took advantage of EVERYONE and you are well rid of her, big ta ta's and all ;) :D
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 535
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 9:30:50 PM
She sounds like she was a professional meal whore, full of entitlement (man always pays). You dodged a bullet, and shouldn't feel guilty at all for not paying her bill. You paid for your drinks as they came, and the server should have known better.
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 536
view profile
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 9:31:27 PM
Yeah pizza and cookie girl , that rings a bell! Would I be wrong to assume that she never sent him a thank you text after the delivery?

@the other Joe..I call them pro daters(not saying this gal is btw) because it ends up being a job with them. They make it a challenge to EXTRACT what they can. It pays off when you do it multiple times a week. But come to think about it many of us guys also try to extract so it is all = in the end ;)

I remember a poster here who had a date demand he take her to a Broadway show. When he wasn't sure about it she mentioned how her other dates take her, why won't he! (rolls eyes).
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 537
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/28/2015 9:41:32 PM
Now now peeps...

Escorts exist as well online.

They want to see you again, but won't put a, god forbid, label on 'this thing we have after committing the carnal sin together'

Tsk, Tsk....

Meal Whores are cheaper then escorts. YMMV
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 538
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Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 1:37:06 AM
While I can sympathize with all of those who have worked as waiter's/waitresses, I still say the onus was on the restaurant to ensure that they were paid for the meal.

When sitting at a bar especially, and this I know because I worked as a bartender MANY moons ago...You are naturally listening to and picking up bits of conversation from the people you are serving, well, if you are good at your job any way....Mostly so that you can be aware of when they are leaving if they need another drink, etc.

But even putting ALL of that aside, only a really cheap restaurant owner would make a server pay out of pocket as they are a BUSINESS and as such, have leeway to write off a certain amount of loss, especially in a restaurant. At the bar where I worked it was only after getting up into the hundreds of dollars, depending on the volume of business done, that we couldn't write stuff off.
All of that to say that's NOT the first time that I've heard of restaurants trying to recoup any losses from their employees, as they are fully aware that most servers ARE young, need the job and it is definitely more profitable for THEM to collect from their server AND write off the loss as well,after all, who is going to say otherwise?

As others have mentioned, they didn't go and sit at a table, as that would have provided the perfect opportunity to clarify the situation.

Could Tom have clarified before she ordered?
Perhaps, and that's probably what I would have done, but then he would have been put in an awkward and uncomfortable position of having to declare, that he wasn't paying when she asked if it was "okay".
That's not right....

At any rate....apparently if they knew her, then it was even MORE so their responsibility to ensure that she paid, as they SAID that she comes in 'all of the time'...Something tells me this is NOT the first time that she has done this, and, again, this is a place of business, it is THEIR responsibility to ensure that they take care of their own business, NOT anyone elses.
Anytime I personally have been in that situation or something similar, the server is CERTAIN to ask if that will be one bill or two, even when I've been with friends. They have NO emotional investment here, and it's their business, not Tom's, to ensure that they are paid for their services.
Although I probably would have tipped the server more, due to the unfortunate circumstances, that would be purely because I sometimes STILL feel 'guilty' in that kind of situation. But I also understand that's a boundary issue, and that I am NOT responsible for another adult's behaviour, technically speaking.
It's women like this that give the rest of us a bad name.... jmo
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 539
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Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 7:50:39 AM
It does seem like an area with enough ambiguity that requires a little careful thought just like anything else -

Two platonic friends or two folks on a date in a restaurant needing to clearly establish between themselves who's paying for what. But, that establishment also needing a way to ensure that they are compensated from the correct party for their products and services. When one individual leaves without paying, who is ultimately responsible?

It might just boil down to the simplicity of the 'server' or 'bartender' establishing if they're ordering together or separately...which, yes, can make it that much more of a pain when they have to process two separate orders and tickets. And so, if separately, when one person fails to pay for 'their part'...whether it was two friends or two people on a date...the establishment now simply has the crime of someone leaving without paying, and it could probably be said that the other individual isn't responsible. Though, I suspect that a practice is to bear the responsibility upon the remaining individual (?)

Therefore, when on a date, this needs to be established without ambiguity between the two individuals and then communicated to the establishment employee. And this is why it becomes such a headache while dating. Because that is such an elephant-in-the-room that two people on a date sometimes don't even address it, and some women either don't understand that it basically puts it in their court to set things forth (because of the nature of all the dating etiquette confusion) or these women take advantage of it and leave it unspoken knowing that many men feel that they leave a wrong impression if they address it. (It doesn't have to be in her court; The man can initialize a chat about these terms, but she should be completely ok with it. If the very act of him bringing it up makes her uneasy in any way or gives her a bad impression, then that right there begins to tell you if they're on the same page enough to proceed further.)

And that right there should show how sad and unnecessary this all is. Should something like this really be so damned difficult? And, this also shows how easy it should be to identify who is who right at the beginning - A man should address that elephant-in-the-room without any uneasiness, and force his date to reveal if she gets a certain impression because of it, and then decide if he wants to proceed further. A woman should do the way that she thinks it should be done according to how she feels things should be between them, and not because she isn't sure about "different men want to go about it differently". And if that woman is honest and respectful enough to be responsible and open in this way, she won't decide that her date is cheap or unromantic or selfish or a score-keeper.

For me at least, the purpose of first-dates is to begin to get to know who the other person is - not concerning hobbies or interests or inconsequential personality traits, etc...but concerning everyone's attitude about the opposite gender, dating and relationships, your motivations and intentions for being on the date, etc. And this right here can be achieved quick as lightning, right at the beginning by doing what you're supposed to be doing instead of participating in rituals when even those rituals might not match up between the two.

The romance and courting and considerate gestures should take place when they can actually have some meaning and be sincere - after two people have established a mutual possibility and a mutual interest. And not because it's actually one gender trying to "win" the other or "make" the other gender like them.

End of story. Problem solved.
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 540
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 9:28:26 AM
It sucks for the restaurant. But I think the restaurant should have cut their losses. Tom did pay for his beers and didn't open up a tab. The bartender could asked if any of his drinks was on her tab for clarification before she left. Also some places will take your credit / debit card when you open a tab. When you leave, they will either put the bill on your card or you can pay in cash at that point. That also would have prevented this from happening.
Joined: 10/24/2014
Msg: 541
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 9:31:07 AM
one of the things I don't think I mentioned is that when I walked into the bar the owner happened to behind there. he said hi, how are you? I said "i'm meeting a blind date here in a few minutes. can i get a Bud Light?" I paid for it (as I always do on a met and greet). then at 3pm the female bartender came in and relieved him.
my date came in 10 minutes later. so at least the owner knew I did i not know this woman.

thank you ALL for the responses.
what it comes down to is....a failure to communicate.
one of the basic rules of people to people interaction and I failed it.
another scenario came to mind this morning.

what if she asked me to pay and I did not understand or hear what she asked?

I am hard of hearing. 30 years in the steel mill, power tools remodeling homes I flipped and the apartment buildings I owned, dance clubs every weekend since I was a teen and hundreds of heavy metal concerts.

I don't believe she did but it would not be the first time I misunderstood something. she dashed out pretty quickly and music was playing and the bar had started to fill up and become noisy.

I want to tell all my forum friends thanks for the input.

you might want to know that I do a high volume of dating and while I can afford these outings and the subsequent dates that occur I do not want to be paying for every single meet and greet SURPRISE meal that any new woman (or meal whore) may decide to eat.

Tom Tom Tom - this is another fine mess you've got me into.
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 542
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 9:34:09 AM

Wow. Some men have gone through very great lengths to analyze the "who pays" argument. I bet they have flow charts and spreadsheets and everything.

Well, with my post it was to preemptively explain issues one may bring up with the flawed "Whoever asks someone out pays! Simple!" argument. No, it's not that simple. Especially online, a gal can be the first to throw out her # when hitting it off in chatting, and she can also be the one to throw out the notion of getting together. It is Not assumed she's going to Take him out. But if a guy does that, it is. Point being -- a high % of dates has nobody offering to Take someone out. Offering to Take someone out is the only Clear situation. When that's not offered -- no matter who brings up going out -- the guy is assumed to pay for her. I was critiquing the argument. :)

If you don't want to pay for the person you are with, grow a set, and state TO THEM that you will not be paying for them on any outing.

Well, it's not with someone "you are with" really that presents these problems that people vent about in forums (because IRL, good luck doing that to one's date - lol). But yeah, if he's on date #2 and she throws out a half-fake "offer" out of "politeness", while she being a financially sound & independent woman, I would say he should say "I'll get this one, you can get the next" or something like that. However, the issue is -- gals will lose interest. And with a gal where there Is brewing interest, he will most likely pay -- but gripe online or to some friends about the Concept that's riddling the scene like many others.

I think for those 1st meetups/dates, it's where it has the most "bite", since many times it's someone you don't (hardly) know. In reference to what you say in which I quote, I Also think Equally, a gal should say in her profile "I want a guy to pay my bill if we go out", just as much as a guy should say in his profile "I will not be paying for a gal's bill". Why doesn't either party say that? It's going to nix their opportunities, although the former is said sometimes (with posh hair flipping attitude usually - lol).

after two and a half hours of a greet and meet she said she had to get back to her kids, had the leftovers boxed, took them, kissed me goodbye and promised we'd go out on a real date soon. I said ok. she walked out.

Okay, so this date ended at that point, after 2.5 hours. Here's the thing. If she's a regular there, it is understandable she's not going to to go thru the "standard motions" of waiting for the check until goodbye, nor is the bartender going to be so quick to lay out a check, etc. Just like at places you're a regular at, they don't ask to hold your credit card first on your 1st order.

Given those factors, I don't see a real difference between That and the common/classic situation when you get a check where the gal doesn't offer, she expects you to pay, and you pay. She didn't necessarily leave/bolt super quick. It Was 2.5 hours. And her being a regular, the check isn't going to come out so quick either. I mean, "The guy pays" -- who cares when the check comes out, right? It's on his dime! I say that with side-humor but also seriously on how life (unfortunately) rolls. I don't think she was trying to run out any escape hatch! If this happened last night, it'd be "too soon to tell" if she had no interest, however, I would skeptical, sure. I would have instead asked the bartender if she has dates coming out here and likes to get free drinks from guys, etc and if she's one of those types. It's good you manned up to pay at least the next day out of good will.

It's a great dating/paying example of right/wrong depending on how they felt. If you two texted and went out again and were like peas & carrots as indicated during your date -- it's not a problem any more than the check coming and she 'expecting' you to pay like a high % of gals. If she blows you off and did the whole "warming up to you" with a kiss etc to get a Free Feeding (nom nom nom) & drinks, then that's a huge slap.

IMO, if an independent woman who's financially sound (like she) isn't that much into the guy, even if they have a good time bantering and making the most of it -- she should solidly Aim to split the bill. If one disagrees with that unwritten-rule, even when the guy brought up the notion to go out -- then she did absolutely nothing wrong on your date. Hey, she kissed you and made you feel desired for 2.5 hours. That's worth the bill, right? ;)
Joined: 2/13/2015
Msg: 543
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 9:54:41 AM

Point being -- a high % of dates has nobody offering to Take someone out.

Well someone has to offer. It's not like you talk to someone and then you both serendipitously show up at the same place at the same time knowing psychically that the other person will be there.

Granted, I'm not one to assume that I'm not going to pay. I always go out with the expectation that I will pay for at least mine, and I'm prepared to pay for his as well, but if one goes with this practice, then they would be paying close attention to who's asking, no? (total presumption on my part)

However, the issue is -- gals will lose interest.

That's the issue in a nutshell. Earlier (not sure if in this thread or not), I read about how men feel pressured by women, etc, and how they are forced to pay because of women's self-entitlement issues, she has a hidden agenda, blah blah, but the real crux of it is that he does to ensure at least as much as he can, that the woman who he has interest in, also has interest in him. Isn't that a "hidden agenda" as well? In a sense, he's trying to buy her affection. So really, it's not women who are forcing and pressuring men to pay all the time, the men put that pressure on themselves. (Having said that, I'm not driven by a man's financial status at all, as long as he can provide for himself and for his children, so I hypothesizing without the knowledge of the mindset of the women who do, or are perceived to, put pressure a man into spending all his money on her).
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 544
view profile
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 9:55:03 AM

whether it was two friends or two people on a date...the establishment now simply has the crime of someone leaving without paying, and it could probably be said that the other individual isn't responsible. Though, I suspect that a practice is to bear the responsibility upon the remaining individual (?)

Interesting question and I will answer it from how I handle it . From a legal point of view where I am from the customer is only obligated for what he received(or if he contributed to someone else receiving). Theft of service in these cases ends up coming down to a judgement call and usually Sgt's get to make the decision. Cops don't really like getting involved and prefer it is settled by the disputers. Taxi disputes are a bit different since they actually have official that leaves mostly eating establishments. But in Tom's case since he didn't receive the benefit of it and he didn't GIFT it ..he didn't commit theft of service.

Restaurants usually have a policy of one check per might be their right but that doesn't take away the customers right to only pay for what is ordered. I have seen patrons refuse to pay. I might hint for them to pay but in the end all I could do is take down his personal info and give it to the owner and tell him to take it up in small claims, etc. UNLESS he actually received a benefit! That is why I mentioned NOT to grab food off his dates plate. Then he would technically be liable. It is like those restaurants (yes there are some) that put special bread on the table, bottled water, etc. and charge if you use it. As long as unopened you aren't responsible but the minute you receive the benefit you are.

As for going back and that right? According to Crookcatcher YES ,but he worked in a one horse town ;) j/k. But it was also showing a lack of universal applied standards for the staff to give him a bill that is being run by another patron, when he himself is sitting at the bar..which is usually cash and carry unless their is a tab.

At the end of the day , ALL businesses must account for a % of loss or they have no business being in business!I am pretty sure a million dollar business like Tavern on the Green can afford losses compared to some of the patrons.

Also realize policies that businesses make up aren't obligations of patron compliance. Examples would be 1 check per table or bag checks on the way out. Precedence has already shown that store security can't legally stop you from leaving if you refuse to let them look into your bag because it is their policy. I have seen what can happen to those security guys who do that....they can get charges for taking away citizens rights when they detain them. I knew an incident where a store security(Best buy I think) did it to a pissed off cop. The cop called local pct desk and they slapped the establishment workers with kidnapping charges ! Obviously restaurants have the same restraints.
Joined: 10/24/2014
Msg: 545
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 11:50:48 AM

my date from yesterday just called. we chitchatted for one minute then I TOLD HER:

"the restaurant wants you to come in and pay your bill for the food an drink you ordered".

her exact response: "i assumed you were going to pay for it."

my exact response: "why would you think that?"

her exact response, "because all the other guys I've been out on a date with have paid and i'm old fashioned. I believe men are supposed to pay."

started to get awkward but I persevered...

my response: "this was a mutual meet and greet from online dating. each person pays for their own."

her response: " I didn't know that. I guess i'll take care of it when I go there. but I believe the man pays."

my general response was that that was the way it USED to be. women work and share the expense now. I told her when I take out womenin their 20's and 30's that they almost insist on paying to show their independence and once again she averred to her "old Fashioned" statement of men paying. I explained that that is not how it is done tday and that in the future we would have to talk about who would pay. she didn't get upset with that but i'm sure she's rethinking the whole situation with me.

she said she still wanted to go out with me and the conversation ended sort of mildly awkward in that I said I would think about it. she said "OK sweety. let me know." then goodbye.

let this be a lesson to some of you guys who may see a beautiful woman with a man you deem your equal or inferior. do not be envious at all. many of these women (not all) are high maintenance, tenacious and touchy! one wrong word or action brings out the worst in them. I've dated Miss Ohio runner up, a model and other beauties and I can tell you they are not as much fun as regular every day women you see out at the sore, mall or sports arenas. these woman can sometimes turn into privileged Kim Kardashian Princesse Divas who believe that their appearance warrants them all considerations from you, extreme patience/understanding and your wallet.
Joined: 3/18/2015
Msg: 546
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 11:52:32 AM
Honest to goodness, what kind of cheap fkuc stiffs a restaurant? If you invited the woman out, it's your responsibility to cover her meal costs, too. You liked her, no?

Did you expect to spend more than 30 minutes with her -- for a $3 beer or a $7 mixed-drink, Really?
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 547
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 11:58:03 AM
The interaction described by tgif111 is no different than if he had struck-up a conversation with someone he simply met at the bar. If one is getting along famously with the stranger in the adjacent seat, is he or she obligated to pay if that person departs in a hurry? In this example, tgif111 had no responsibility to chase a stranger into the parking lot over an unpaid check. In these types of first meetings, it is even possible one does not know the other person's true first name! :-)

Had the woman said, "tgif111 I really like you. Can we get together this upcoming Tuesday night at Arthur's Steakhouse for a longer follow-up dinner? Tell you what, you grab this one and the next one is on me." would have made it a far easier situation.

As a person who at one time had a $1000/month online dating bill for dinner, after dinner, after dinner...I migrated to a different approach. Rather than have those awkward situations...I opted towards grabbing a coffee or a wine and then strolling around town. When the drinks arrived, I would pay CASH on the spot. Keeps things manageable.
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 548
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 12:05:43 PM

If you explained that you were saving up for that trip to meet LH at Mt Rainier, they would be more understanding of your current debacle.
Joined: 10/24/2014
Msg: 549
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 12:07:52 PM
thanks Clooney, Eric Chief of Staff and Adventure Joe my Secretary of Defense.

I don't see why you're calling me cheap eternityboreme. there's no shame on me.

she's working too. she makes money. she may even make more than I do as i'm retired.

I DID NOT INVITE HER OUT ON A DATE. she picked the meeting place.

yes I liked her. but I like a lot of women. and I take a lot out. the xpense builds if you keep being a Santa Claus.

it was a mutual attraction ONLINE and we BOTH agreed to meet. it was not a date and I did not ask her out on a date. I did not eat anything. I paid for my two beers in cash as I ordered them.

I take out 4 women a month on meet and greets, date others for while. why is the onus always on the man?

why SHOULD it be? I don't know how YOU work your dates but I don't go around throwing money at them. on a date last week with another woman I paid $140 for Flash Dance The Musical tickets and she paid for the $100 tab at the restaurant. it's titt for tatt.

this is 2015 - time for the woman to pay too.
Hillary may become president! women are our equal.

The Commander In Chief
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 550
view profile
Paying for a date
Posted: 3/29/2015 12:15:10 PM
Correct secretary of State Eric_Summit. Apparently not everyone has gotten the memo yet. 'Drinks are just drinks' and apparently in the commander in chiefs case... a 'kiss is just a kiss'

As for your 1000 dollar dinner that be a story worth sharing. Going to Roll-N-Roaster avoids that!
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