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 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 776
Paying for a datePage 32 of 74    (18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58)
My goodness, there are so many things to consider, it is nearly impossible to make it work with anybody, lol.

Next thing you know, we'll be sending contracts around and asking for negotiations before we even meet, lmao.
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 777
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 1:27:17 PM

Some women will say anything to try to shame men into paying for the first date.

There are plenty of POF broken bottles with nary a concern for their lack of self respect, who won't mind wasting her mascara and time on another broken bottle for a two-hour coffee meet.

So a gal who doesn't pressure/shame a guy into paying for a coffee date (gets their own coffee & vice versa) is someone who's a time-wasting "broken bottle" who lacks self-respect. Wow. Just... wow.

I have been [financially independent] since 16 years old. It doesn't mean I'm going to lower the bar and accept a broke, low-hanging piece of fruit who wants to waste my time and move in with me after the first week, and the ****er won't pay for a $2 cup of coffee. Screw that shit.

But a guy can say the Exact same thing, word-for-word. Any gender, any sexual orientation can say that. Even if nobody asked to take another person out, they'll see the other person as a broke low-hanging piece of fruit who wants to (potentially) move in with them after the 1st week, as the [bleep] won't pay for a $2 cup of coffee. Screw that sh!t, right? How can that assumption not be said about a woman? Why would a gal who won't pay, not even for MINE, but even for her OWN $2 cup of coffee not be such a low-life as you describe?

If one wants to talk about people being financially viable -- coffee dates don't play into it. Vacations? Even uber-high-priced restaurants & tours? OK. If it Really Were about $$ earned, then it'd be on a case-by-case basis -- not a gender-stereotype basis. It's really not about one gender making more than another -- it's because "it is what it is" -- whether one happily goes along with it, is okay with going along with it but not a 'fan' of it, begrudgingly goes along with it, selectively goes along with it, or never goes along with it.

He wants to invoke the crass idiom of "going dutch" because he's cheap.

It is a crass idiom, I agree. When someone and their friend go out and they each roughly pay for their own, or I-got-this-one-you-get-next -- who calls that "going dutch"? Basically it means "going cheap" in a not-so-incognito sort of way. I disagree that makes a guy cheap. It can be an indicator, don't get me wrong. But solely basing it on that would be childish. But let's say it is, for the sake of argument. OK. You know what's an even Greater indicator that one's Cheap? When they want the other person to not just pay for their own, but to also pay for theirs, too. You can't look at one POV and not forget the other that flies in the face of it.

In the end, one can play stereotype games that's based on their greed & what they take for granted. A guy can think every gal who wants a guy to pay for all dates is one looking for a sugar-daddy, or at 'best' wasting his time for free eating from the trough. A gal can think every guy who won't pay her way every time on anything from intro-dates to solidified/more-costly dates is a cheap ba$tard who can't even prove himself as a provider/bread-winner/etc.

In reality, most guys do pay, and it's not usually an issue -- even though when thinking about it, it gets more men a bit irked in spirit, just like it may get some women in spirit irked that guy would (gasp) possibly not pay her way even if he never Asked to Take her out. But it's a complete Joke when a woman feels Entitled to it for going out with him, when he never explicitly Asked to Take her out. Any poor fool can pay for a $4 coffee on an intro-coffee-date. Any poor fool can save his bottle cans and pay for a more solidified Date. If he truly can't/couldn't, then he's no more a 'loser' than a gal is who couldn't herself. Again, we're not talking about trips to Cancun.

There are plenty of great gals out there who are "broken bottles" in some gals' eyes, by having a thin wallet and not in position to pay to be going out in general... and if the guy likes her and senses that, he should not have a problem paying her way if he also senses genuine interest by her (or trying to win her initial interest over). Even guys who aren't at all fans of the "guy always pay; eat it" mentality.

I think the main issue is the philisophical concept that said thing should be done with no better reason than "just because", as if the guy is the contestant and the woman is a whole panel of judges... whether she's making minimum wage part time, or is of high income.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 778
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 1:57:04 PM
Who let the loonies out of the loony bin? I'm talking about the women who think that if they were to pay for their own coffee on a first meet or go dutch on a meal, it's a legal obligation to have a guy move into her place, and she is to support him for life, and she has no say in the matter. A med adjustment is needed to up the anti-psychotic meds.
 slowitalldown
Joined: 1/25/2013
Msg: 779
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 2:11:27 PM
We have had this argument so many times in these forums that it doesn`t bear repeating.

But I am so concerned with the way people refer to others as if they aren`t worthy of respect. Every person has inherent value just by virtue of being a human being. Just because you don`t agree with someone`s actions is no reason to denigrate them.

One would think a guy had commited a crime in not paying for someone`s cup of coffee, or a woman for being socialized to expect it, the way people are going on.

There`s enough going on out there to get worked up about. When you start throwing around terms like ``broken bottle`` when referring to a human being, there`s something very wrong. maybe time to stop dating and get some perspective ffs.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 780
view profile
History
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 3:25:17 PM
Every time that the who-pays-for-what-on-first-dates/meets conversation gets started, it gets derailed into being about something which I think isn't really the point nearly as often as you'd think from observing the arguments on this subject. Very often, without a person realizing it, it's not at all about independence, finances, gender roles, or equality... Not even close. Sometimes these are a part of it, but not nearly as big of a part of it as is made. I've clarified this every time that this comes up, but that clarification gets drowned out. I think that this demonstrates something: When you have a certain predisposition and attitude in how you discuss things, competitive debate sets in and you get tricked into arguing for and against something that you might not argue for and against if you were aware of what's going on...you mistake the issue for being about one thing when in fact it's about another. This happens too often in here. And I'm thankful that I know how to recognize the ones who cause this, seemingly intentionally.
 Aprilikeswhiteroses
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 781
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 4:58:22 PM

One would think a guy had commited a crime in not paying for someone`s cup of coffee,


Well, he committed a class - C -misdemeanor offense, he is a first date mood killer.



it's not at all about independence, finances, gender roles, or equality


Correct.!!
It is about the rules of etiquette in the first date of a man with the testicles and the behavior of the woman with the vagina.
WE ARE DIFFERENT. A man should behave in a first date as THE MAN.
If the man wants to change roles, then he should also should do the sex change surgery. ...Then we are the same.
If he doesn't agree with the sex change, then he Pays in the first date as it should be.
C? I do have a solution for the men..:-)
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 782
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 5:11:20 PM
^^^ Men don't need to pay for the first date if they don't want to, regardless of what you think. There are plenty of attractive intelligent women these days who are willing to go Dutch. Anyway, what's the point of arguing over this? If you want a man to pay for you date more traditionally-minded men. To each their own.
 LadyEssKay
Joined: 2/13/2015
Msg: 783
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 5:16:40 PM
I'm one of the ones who expects to pay for my own stuff, and often pay for theirs as well No biggie.

But this thread reminds me of a first date I went on once. We went for a drink, and he decided he was a bit hungry and asked if I wanted to eat something as well. I was a bit hungry so I ordered something to eat. When the bill came, I was already reaching for my wallet in my purse, when he made a massive production of "I'm sorry to have to ask this, but I would appreciate it if you paid for your own food, because many women blah blah blah" I was a bit taken aback, as he had already seen me look at the bill, and reach for my wallet, and didn't really have to do the whole histrionic "meal whore" thing. I told him of course, that I would pay for my food (I ended up leaving the tip as well).

When I got home, I checked my emails, to find that I had received a few messages on POF. I logged in, to read the messages. Lo and behold, the person I had just left was also on there. Then I got the nastiest message from him, asking me what the hell I was doing on POF, when "he hadn't even had the chance to decide whether he was wanting to date me or not." He didn't take note of the irony that he had to be on there as well, to note that I was on there.

Needless to say, that was the last opportunity he had to speak with me. I subsequently went on several first meets, and almost without exception have paid for my own coffee/meal/activity, and often paid for the person I was with as well - quite a few times, never to hear from them again. So it's not just women that are "meal whores".
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 784
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 5:35:02 PM
If two dollars going to break the bank at Monte Carlo
Then don't go
Freak I pay for strangers coffee ( I have a weakness for lil old ladies wearing a brooch
$2.00
$2.00
Mercy me - shades of Zorba the Greek
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 785
view profile
History
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 6:20:41 PM
Back in the old days...can't BELIEVE I just said that....

But yeah...back in the old days, women were told that they needed to have some 'mad money' just in case their date turned out to be a creep and they didn't want to end up 'trapped' or obligated to said creep....

Today the only variations on that theme ofr me, personally, are that it's no longer called 'mad money' it's just MY money....and you also should carry some pepper spray with that...

I always have a bottle of water with me so I'm not going to perish from thirst...and I don't even LIKE coffee any way...

And if somebody is that stingy about the price of a coffee, I'm pretty sure that their going to be 'bean counting' ALL of the time...I generally find people like that a pain in the ass, so it wouldn't go any further...
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 786
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 7:17:49 PM

And if somebody is that stingy about the price of a coffee, I'm pretty sure that their going to be 'bean counting' ALL of the time...I generally find people like that a pain in the ass, so it wouldn't go any further...


Who is more stingy? The person who wouldn't buy the other person a coffee or the person who wouldn't pay for their own?
 LadyEssKay
Joined: 2/13/2015
Msg: 787
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 7:24:02 PM
The person would have to pay for their own if the other person wasn't paying.

But either way, if you are going out somewhere and do not want to, or cannot buy a 2 dollar cup of coffee for the person you are with, perhaps more effort should be placed on budgeting, rather than dating. Even if you don't have to pay for someone else, dating will cost you some money. If 2 dollars is an issue, you can't afford to be dating.

I know what some will say. "But 2 dollars IS NOT an issue. I can afford 2 dollars! It's the principle. I shouldn't have to pay 2 dollars if I don't want to".

If this is the case, then you are stingy.
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 788
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 7:37:16 PM


Who is more stingy? The person who wouldn't buy the other person a coffee or the person who wouldn't pay for their own?


Dude, I'd rather ponder some real sh!t then how stingy she is.

Please tell us you're not really giving this a lot of CPU cycles...
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 789
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 7:56:46 PM
Years ago it became clear to me while viewing my AMEX statement and realizing it was a $1000/month online dating habit of purchasing dinners for complete strangers. The reality is that one is "rolling the dice" because one does not know if he or she will truly even like the man or woman until one is at the date. Hence...many one-time dinners.

That was then modified to a more practical approach of first meets for a casual drink or strolling around a pleasant town chatting and having coffee. There are exceptions where I might better know the person from chatting on POF Forums, mutual friends, or otherwise know a meal would be completely entertaining for both. People must use judgment.

 kj521
Joined: 8/8/2012
Msg: 790
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 8:07:48 PM
I like your exceptions Eric.....especially the Pof forums one.
There are so many nice people here that I would like to plan a weekend event get together cause one night would not be enough! :)
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 791
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 8:09:46 PM

The person would have to pay for their own if the other person wasn't paying.

But either way, if you are going out somewhere and do not want to, or cannot buy a 2 dollar cup of coffee for the person you are with, perhaps more effort should be placed on budgeting, rather than dating. Even if you don't have to pay for someone else, dating will cost you some money. If 2 dollars is an issue, you can't afford to be dating.

I know what some will say. "But 2 dollars IS NOT an issue. I can afford 2 dollars! It's the principle. I shouldn't have to pay 2 dollars if I don't want to".

If this is the case, then you are stingy.


Thanks for the concern, but as an adult I can make my own decisions about dating. I prefer to always go Dutch on the first date, even if it's only for coffee. You can call me stingy or call me whatever you want.
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 792
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 8:19:18 PM

Posted by KissFromARose77:
"You can call me stingy or call me whatever you want."

The only thing that matters with online dating or traditional dating is that both people are happy.
The pathways that two people might select are entirely up to them. I prefer to continue to call you KissFromARose77.

 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 793
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 8:37:15 PM

Why do you care what someone else thinks? Make a decision and take charge, whatever you do. What she thinks about it not something you can control.


During a discussion / thread, I might state why I agree or disagree with someone else's viewpoint. However that doesn't mean I lose sleep over it. If 2 people have different viewpoints about how who should pay and neither person is willing to compromise. Then they are simply aren't a match. And both people can move on.
 LadyEssKay
Joined: 2/13/2015
Msg: 794
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 8:40:10 PM

Thanks for the concern, but as an adult I can make my own decisions about dating. I prefer to always go Dutch on the first date, even if it's only for coffee. You can call me stingy or call me whatever you want.


I'm actually not concerned for you, or your adulthood, your decisions about dating, whether you prefer Dutch, or Norwegian, or Belgian, or whatever, and I don't care who pays or doesn't pay for the coffee on your dates. When I was saying "you", I wasn't meaning "you" specifically. It was more of a global "you".
 FullMoonGuy
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 795
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 8:48:21 PM

"But 2 dollars IS NOT an issue. I can afford 2 dollars! It's the principle. I shouldn't have to pay 2 dollars if I don't want to".


"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute"- Robert Goodloe Harper, 1798


People must use judgment.


People using judgment??? Here?

That's just crazy talk, Eric.


or call me whatever you want.


I will call you Moe.

Hey, Moe !!
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 796
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/17/2015 9:00:34 PM
Three simple little words......... "separate checks, please." My buddy and I use them all of the time. Imagine that, no bean counting whatsoever.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 797
view profile
History
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/18/2015 1:30:11 AM
Yesterday I donated 50$ to the cause of saving dogs in places like Thailand and the Philippines because you see they not only EAT them but most of the time they also DISMEMBER them while they are STILL ALIVE and CONSCIOUS....

So you see...whether or not some guy wants to buy me a cup of of coffee or not is REALLY not that important to me whatsoever...

My point is that I tip well, I donate to charities and causes that I believe in, when I have $$ I take friends and family out and pay their way...

I'm NOT rich...I don't come from a rich family, my education wasn't paid for by ANYBODY else, I have been paying my own way since the age of 13 when I had to support myself as my mother decided to live with her b/f and forget that she had a kid...

I DO know the value of money and am quite good at dealing with it...

I have bought COUNTLESS cups of coffee as well as MANY other things for men over the years, because I'm one of the MANY women out there who HAVE supported men they have been with AND been taken for a ride, due to my generous nature....
And guess what? If I get there BEFORE him, I'm STILL going to buy him a cup of coffee...
Why?
Because it's a kind and decent thing to do....
As I have done on MANY a morning when going through the drive-through at Tim Horton's for a TOTAL stranger....

Also, I will talk to a guy on the phone BEFORE meeting, so by the time we DO meet, we aren't even complete strangers, so why the HELL would I all of a sudden decide that the 'principal' of paying for a 2$ cup of coffee is SO important...? I AM a generous person and am NOT going to begrudge ANYONE the price of a coffee because 'things didn't work out' with us...

I'm TERRIBLY sorry and apologize for women EVERYWHERE for all of you men out there who have been taken advantage of by all of those 'meal whores' and who have been foolish enough to not have a clue when you're being used or are breaking the bank trying to impress them and keep them happy...it SUCKS when that happens...I KNOW, as I've been through it myself!!!

I guess the difference that I see between myself and all of you is simple, I have taken responsibility for MY choices and have learned from them, BUT, I also don't hold every man accountable whether or not HE was the one taking the advantage, so to speak...and I refuse to allow those experiences make me bitter OR alter how generous I am with people that I DO care about....

So good on you ALL for 'bucking the system' that has kept you all in this gender designated HELL, of paying 2$ for your date's coffee...consider yourself the 'winners'....

Note: For any dog lovers out there who would like to help the cause...please go to the humane society web page and donate now...these dogs need help! Thanks!
 Eternityboreme
Joined: 3/18/2015
Msg: 798
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/18/2015 2:34:41 AM

I have bought COUNTLESS cups of coffee as well as MANY other things for men over the years, because I'm one of the MANY women out there who HAVE supported men they have been with AND been taken for a ride, due to my generous nature....
And guess what? If I get there BEFORE him, I'm STILL going to buy him a cup of coffee...
Why?
Because it's a kind and decent thing to do...


If somebody asks me to coffee, I'll take it as an invitation. If he purchased coffee, and after thirty minutes we made a decision, and whatever that decision to meet again or continue to a meal, I am gracious and will always extend my thank you.

During the course of the courtship, of course, it'd be my pleasure to buy the coffee, too, and cook home meals and present him with gifts of my love. What I won't do is open myself as a doormat when he's shown to be malingerer or taker and give things to him (that he doesn't deserve), to keep him. No way. if he shows to be unreliable and irresponsible, I'll not feel indebted to him, even if he has paid for a few dates.

People can refer to me as a selfish **** -- I don't care. I won't announce what I do for anybody or animal because it isn't anybody's business. I, too, worked damn hard for what I have, to allow some malingerer and whiner ruin it. I'm not afraid of showing him the door...


I guess the difference that I see between myself and all of you is simple, I have taken responsibility for MY choices


What a smoldering, heaping pile of...

No m'am, you aren't the only one.

If *I* am to blame, *I* take the responsibility. I'll not be responsible for anybody else's poor choices, however. If they show me poor behavior, they're excommunicated from my life. No second chances. No welcome back shaggings. Nada.


and have learned from them, BUT, I also don't hold every man accountable whether or not HE was the one taking the advantage,


NOBODY that I see here is holding EVERY man responsible for it. (They were since nuked from the forums, some time back.)


so to speak...and I refuse to allow those experiences make me bitter OR alter how generous I am with people that I DO care about....


You're unwise to refuse to make alterations _that are needed _ in your life.

I, on the other hand, won't avail myself as an obliging human doormat NOR will I allow just anybody to walk in and out of my personal life. if somebody shows early on that they're unfit to remain in my life, they're gone. This doesn't mean that I'm not open to making new acquaintances and getting to know people -- but, again, it doesn't mean that my heart has a permanently open pathway to pass broken bottles and couch surfers. No way.


So good on you ALL for 'bucking the system' that has kept you all in this gender designated HELL, of paying 2$ for your date's coffee...consider yourself the 'winners'..


That'd be lowering the bar -- something I'm unwilling to do.
 Eternityboreme
Joined: 3/18/2015
Msg: 799
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/18/2015 2:35:57 AM

My goodness, there are so many things to consider, it is nearly impossible to make it work with anybody, lol.

Next thing you know, we'll be sending contracts around and asking for negotiations before we even meet, lmao


That's "going dutch."
 Eternityboreme
Joined: 3/18/2015
Msg: 800
Paying for a date
Posted: 4/18/2015 2:39:53 AM

``broken bottle`` when referring to a human being


You mean a "married" human being who's posing as a divorcee who wants to worm into your home? Somebody who looks at you like you're an easy target and refuses to properly court you...so they can exist in your life as a parasite? Yes, these are broken bottles and these are not the people who need to date -- they need the introspection and they need the proverbial med adjustment.
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