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 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 1026
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STAY HOME & MASTURBATE BEC> THAT IS ALL YOU CAN GET ANYWAYPage 42 of 74    (34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74)

IF YOU WANT TO GO DUTCH, GO TO HOLLAND


There are some nice ladies of color there...


To the short, unattractive, cheap men in the forums who want the perfect woman:


This shorter, bald, frugal, sexy beast isn't expecting perfect. I would like attractive and ideal for me...
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1027
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 9:40:03 AM
Kissfromarose77 writes:


I want a woman. Just a certain kind of woman. A woman who will pay for herself,


You're skirting the issue of telling the woman before the date that you expect her to pay her own way. So which is it? Do you invite the woman out on a date and allow her to think it's going to be your treat, or are you honest enough to tell her before the date that you want to go Dutch?
 CBGB77
Joined: 12/15/2017
Msg: 1028
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 10:30:42 AM
http://www.ejinsight.com/20170427-going-dutch-and-the-psychology-of-dating/
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 1029
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 11:27:43 AM
The problem is, at least the way I look at it, is it's women who generally make up the rules on dating. D!cks are a dime a dozen in almost all dating spheres, and women have alternatives. Unless you wanna go bang another dude, most men have to play the game. Most women have multitides of choices....a reasonably attractive woman has to carry an umbrella out ever day deflect the d!ck downpour. Yes, there ARE a relatively few lucky men who can dictate the rules, play THEIR game, but these are men who have above average things to offer. They have thing(s) women want. The remainder of the huddled masses of average to less than average men, for the most part have to abide by the customary rules women expect, and STFU. It seems to me that the LAST thing men who can't get dates needs to worry about is "who pays." It really is a SMH type thing to me...maybe I'm missing something cuz I'm old and over the hill???
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 1030
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 2:11:00 PM

The remainder of the huddled masses of average to less than average men, for the most part have to abide by the customary rules women expect, and STFU.

I think the kicker is that the 'rules' ARE different for just about every woman out there. Expectations are rarely ever made clear, and it's ever harder to figure out if they have been met. Heck, I think most women out there don't even remember all their 'rules' sometimes, and can't even keep a clear idea of what they expect. A lot of what happens is gut feelings or impulses. Most people refuse to admit they made a mistake after, and tend to blame the other party - but we all know damn well that 'rules' are broken ALL the time, be it circumstance or booze.
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Ladies: What you want in a man is NEVER identical to your friends or anyone else. Every person out there has trigger words or phrases or feelings or smells that make or break a date that are absolutely unique to yourself. Assuming it's all common knowledge is bad form. Assuming we know is even worse. Please figure that out. Guys are bad at reading signals for many reasons, but a big one is because there is no consistency. It's like driving down a street and every stoplight is a new color, and half of them are upside-down or sideways.
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Yes - paying for the date is a very minor action in the long run. It really shouldn't be a big deal. What ruins dates is when drama gets added to it. Being exploited for a meal or drink has happened to me before - and although I'm not happy about it, it is part of the game - a necessary risk sometimes. What makes it worse is when a small moment of hesitation when the check arrives makes people jump to conclusions and shut down. It's the same thing when people talk about their Ex, or talk too much, or do one little thing like drumming their fingers because it bugs the crap out of you. That drama trigger doesn't need to be there, the other person has no idea, and it's created between your ears, not by the other person. That doesn't HAVE to be a deal-breaker.
 Endless_Summer_Nights
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 1031
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 2:59:24 PM
There are some women who go on 50+ first dates with no intention of finding a steady boyfriend. They can be wined and dined every night of the week and not have to crack open their wallet. Meanwhile the guys are thinking "Maybe she's the one" and then they never hear from her again. I wouldn't say this is the majority of women but they exist.

NewYorker - You keep mentioning guys expect sex when they pay. I think a lot of us hope a good date leads to sex. Maybe on the first date or within a few dates. This applies to women. A lot of you like sex as much as we do. I've had woman pay for first dates. I didn't feel pressured to have to put out those night. I thought it was nice of them to do that.

Generally, people go on a date to see if they like the person enough to go out with them again. They turn into a couple if there is a connection. Couples do things together including sharing expenses when they go out. It doesn't have to be dollar for dollar. One person can pay for the movie tickets while the other takes care of the popcorn and soda. Simple things like that.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/2/2018
Msg: 1032
Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 4:31:40 PM

You're skirting the issue of telling the woman before the date that you expect her to pay her own way. So which is it? Do you invite the woman out on a date and allow her to think it's going to be your treat, or are you honest enough to tell her before the date that you want to go Dutch?


White rose, I was being facetious. I wouldn’t invite a woman out before telling her that I expect to go Dutch. The last date I had she actually wanted to pay the whole bill.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1033
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 6:16:22 PM
Endless, sure women like sex when they're with someone that puts effort into the deed, but if they want a relationship that includes good qualities too, they may want to see if the guy possesses them first.

If I went to a movie, and the guy says you get the popcorn, I'd laugh in his face. That certainly is keeping track. Like men before you, I'll ask, when the woman entertains you in her home with a movie, drinks and snacks or an invite for dinner, does she ask for $$$? I've only seen this phenomenon with men being cheap with OLD.

Men that are lackluster have been "let go" by their wives for behavior like this, for being tightwads. I have a gf that's tired of this behavior from her cheap and boring husband. She works too, but he says he wants to wait for retirement to do things. That's f-ed up. What a waste of life to think you should wait until retirement to live life. You know what happens when people get older, they get sick, and sometimes too sick to do anything. I know one guy in his early 60s with prostate cancer. Treatments kick your @ss, and exhaust you, even a year after they're over. Joints wear out when you want to be active.
 Endless_Summer_Nights
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 1034
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 8:37:31 PM

If I went to a movie, and the guy says you get the popcorn, I'd laugh in his face. That certainly is keeping track. Like men before you, I'll ask, when the woman entertains you in her home with a movie, drinks and snacks or an invite for dinner, does she ask for $$$? I've only seen this phenomenon with men being cheap with OLD.


For the popcorn, the guy shouldn't even have to ask. It should be common courtesy for the woman to say I'll get the popcorn and drinks. Especially if they are a few dates into knowing each other. As for the woman cooking dinner, I'd bring a bottle of wine and ask if she wanted me to pick up anything else on the way over. I've done that more times than I can remember. Two people getting to know each other and working together as a team. I'd also be helping to clean up later. Everything shouldn't be piled on one person. I think the beginning of the relationship sets the stage for how things will be if it progresses into something long term. If one person is always along for the free ride (or free dinner) then they'll probably always expect to be catered to and not contribute to the relationship.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1035
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 9:04:41 PM
Or, a guy could try not being petty over a few dollars for a movie. Enjoy treating your gf, then enjoy your home cooked meal. If you can't afford going to a movie, don't go. Find something free to do.

Who says women can necessarily afford to kick in anyway? I can just see the woman with $10 left for the week until she gets paid and has to buy you popcorn. This is why I will probably not date another pof guy, because so many are either cheap, jobless or a very low wage earner.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 1036
Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 9:16:42 PM

After the third date is my opinion. There was a poll on my facebook page and most women said three dates as well. So that is probably a good time line if you are looking for reciprocation. I have women of all ages on my facebook and everyone who contributed said they would not go out with a guy who wanted to go dutch.


Fortunately not all women think the same way. Most women I dated offered to pay something on the first or second date. Even if it was just the tip or snacks / drinks after I had paid for something else that was more expensive. I had a ex-girlfriend that belonged to a woman's group. Most of the women in her group said they would offer to contribute on the first date.

If a man (or woman for that matter) wants to pay, that's fine. But I don't think a man should be expected to pay because of traditional / old fashioned rules. Also for the women that want a man to pay for X amount of dates before they start to contribute, remember most of the time ( at least with OLD ), it doesn't go beyond 1 or 2 dates. Therefore the burden would almost always be on the man in that scenario.
 Endless_Summer_Nights
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 1037
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 9:36:20 PM

Or, a guy could try not being petty over a few dollars for a movie. Enjoy treating your gf, then enjoy your home cooked meal. If you can't afford going to a movie, don't go. Find something free to do.

Who says women can necessarily afford to kick in anyway? I can just see the woman with $10 left for the week until she gets paid and has to buy you popcorn. This is why I will probably not date another pof guy, because so many are either cheap, jobless or a very low wage earner.


It's not about the guy being petty, it's about him not constantly being used a meal/entertainment ticket. You say a lot of POF guys are cheap, jobless or low wage earners. It sounds like that hypothetical woman is a good match for them if she only has $10. left for the week. And if that's the case, it doesn't make either one of them a bad person. I've had conversations about this stuff with guy friends but it's interesting to actually see a woman say she wants a guy with a lot of money who will pay for her all the time. Hey, go for it if it works!
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1038
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 10:26:52 PM

Who says women can necessarily afford to kick in anyway? I can just see the woman with $10 left for the week until she gets paid and has to buy you popcorn.


If a woman can't afford to pay her own way, she shouldn't be dating. Period. If nothing else, she should have her own money for safety reasons. Something could happen where she was left stranded, and needed money to get home.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 1039
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/16/2018 11:35:30 PM
Why does their have to be any rules? Can't the couple decide between themselves what they want to do on a date?
It makes sense though that the person asking someone out on a date should be the one offering to pay for it so as not to embarrass that person if they can't afford to accept and up their chances of them saying yes, the other person can then offer to pay halves or for the next date if they want to.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 1040
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/17/2018 12:33:02 AM
I found it interesting that I went on the most dates from here while I was homeless and jobless once. And they weren't bad dates or bad women either. I also didn't get the impression that they were trying to be a sugar mamma. In fact one of them was of lower income.

a reasonably attractive woman has to carry an umbrella out every day to deflect the d!ck downpour.

Hahahahaha!!! Dick downpour....hahahahahaha!!!!
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/2/2018
Msg: 1041
Chivalry is dead and feminism killed it
Posted: 5/17/2018 3:24:48 AM
She gets offended when I offer to pay. That solves the problem.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1042
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/17/2018 4:24:26 AM
Endless, meal ticket? Who goes out to eat an expensive meal every week or spends a lot of money on dates all the time? What about after a few dates with doing things, then the guys segue to plop at her place and be waited on and use her as a sperm bucket? I think men have the better deal, but aholes here are too cheap and f-ed up in the head to get thru a few dates to get there.
 RoxyMoronic
Joined: 6/7/2016
Msg: 1043
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/17/2018 4:46:40 AM
Lol @dick downpour......it’s raining men
I can’t speak for reasonably attractive but I wouldn’t say every day.
Some days are like hose-ban times...dry.
 BLONDE_ANGEL_1
Joined: 4/27/2018
Msg: 1044
Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/17/2018 6:16:48 AM

I think the beginning of the relationship sets the stage for how things will be if it progresses into something long term. If one person is always along for the free ride (or free dinner) then they'll probably always expect to be catered to and not contribute to the relationship.


Which is why some women set certain boundaries/criteria prior to getting involved.

I wanted a man who was interested in me as a whole person, not a hole person.

And this is what I got all the time.
 blackbeauty744
Joined: 12/1/2015
Msg: 1045
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/17/2018 6:40:12 AM

it doesn't go beyond 1 or 2 dates. Therefore the burden would almost always be on the man in that scenario.


This is why in the beginning stages, I prefer little to no money is spent at all.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 1046
Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/17/2018 6:56:08 AM

Why does their have to be any rules? Can't the couple decide between themselves what they want to do on a date?
It makes sense though that the person asking someone out on a date should be the one offering to pay for it so as not to embarrass that person if they can't afford to accept and up their chances of them saying yes, the other person can then offer to pay halves or for the next date if they want to.


If the person that asked was the "host" and arranged the date, then I might better understand the "who asks theory". But on my dates, usually both people have some input on the details. If a person wanted to go someplace that I felt was too expensive, I would make a counter suggestion that was cheaper. Again if someone wants to pay for most or all of the date, that's fine. But for the most part, there shouldn't be any expectations or assumptions about who is paying. In particular when everything else about the details of the date had been shared up to that point.
 Endless_Summer_Nights
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 1047
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/17/2018 7:24:25 AM
I've been dating someone I met here for a few weeks. We went out twice and she came over twice. I paid for the two outings along with the first night we stayed in (pizza and wine). The second night in was spent watching tv and... stuff. We're been talking about going out this weekend. I mentioned I planned our last two adventures and asked if she wants to pick this time. Does her planning mean she's responsible for paying? I don't think so. A lot of dates involve food so if she pays for dinner I'll cover what we do later.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1048
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Your gonna get friend zoned
Posted: 5/17/2018 7:42:57 AM
Endless, what are you going to do when she tells you what she'd like to do? How are going to break it to her that you'd like her to pay for the date or part of the date? You guys are so funny. I'm laughing as I'm typing this. I take it that you're not that fond of her. Well, good luck, but I would friend zone you in a NY minute
 BLONDE_ANGEL_1
Joined: 4/27/2018
Msg: 1049
Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/17/2018 7:46:17 AM
^^Endless, depends on your finances & hers- income, debt, minor children, etc.

Even in 2018, women earn approx 70 cents on the dollar to men in an equal position.

After divorce, women's standard of living goes DOWN, while men's go UP (in general, plus women are generally the custodial parent)

So a man springing for a $50 dinner at a chain restaurant may be equal to a woman springing for a $10 coffee at Starbucks.

And let's face it, way easier for women to get sex then men, so women will always have the upper hand.

Granted some men want a relationship along w/ sex, however...

Guys figure the cost of a round trip to Parumph, NV where prostitution is legal (I have posted this dozens of times over the years) The cost of walking into a legal brothel such as the Bunny Ranch & paying for a minimal sexual encounter. Still don't wanna pay for her popcorn?

Guess what, no matter how you slice it, men will have to cough up $ to get a relationship/sex w/ a quality woman. She will be in demand, & if a man is too cheap or broke, she will choose another man instead. The cheap/broke man will have to pick a less in demand woman.

There is a pecking order when it comes to mating.
 Endless_Summer_Nights
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 1050
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Grown men don’t need approval to go Dutch
Posted: 5/17/2018 8:27:53 AM

Endless, what are you going to do when she tells you what she'd like to do? How are going to break it to her that you'd like her to pay for the date or part of the date? You guys are so funny. I'm laughing as I'm typing this. I take it that you're not that fond of her. Well, good luck, but I would friend zone you in a NY minute


I'm just going to wing it and see what happens. Not that I wouldn't enjoy someone else taking me out and paying for me all the time but I don't think it would be right. She's very nice and like spending time with her but that doesn't mean I always have to pay when we go out. What happens if we progress? For example, what happens if we want to goto NYC for a weekend or trip to Key West? I definitely wouldn't be paying for the whole trip.

Earlier this year I went to the Dominican Republic with someone I was dating for a few months. We each paid our own airfare along and split the cost of the resort. It was all inclusive so there weren't many expenses there. The only thing we had to pay for there is massages (we split those) and tips. Sometimes she tipped and sometimes I did. When we were dating, sometimes I'd pay and sometimes she would and sometimes we'd each contribute throughout the night. Our first date... she suggested we get together for a drink that night. That was an hour after we started texting on here (no need for a 3 week conversation :) ). I paid for dinner and drinks. We went to another location for desert and drinks. She grabbed the check when it came. I think that's how it should be but everyone has their own opinion.

I can't think of any women who I've dated who couldn't carry their own. I could see if someone was unemployed. Then I'd know what I was in for and expect to be paying most of the time until she was working again. Things usually progress into what I've mentioned above (each person contributes). But there have been times when I contributed a lot more and I usually pay for the first date or two.



^^Endless, depends on your finances & hers- income, debt, minor children, etc.

Even in 2018, women earn approx 70 cents on the dollar to men in an equal position.

After divorce, women's standard of living goes DOWN, while men's go UP (in general, plus women are generally the custodial parent)

So a man springing for a $50 dinner at a chain restaurant may be equal to a woman springing for a $10 coffee at Starbucks.

And let's face it, way easier for women to get sex then men, so women will always have the upper hand.

Granted some men want a relationship along w/ sex, however...

Guys figure the cost of a round trip to Parumph, NV where prostitution is legal (I have posted this dozens of times over the years) The cost of walking into a legal brothel such as the Bunny Ranch & paying for a minimal sexual encounter. Still don't wanna pay for her popcorn?

Guess what, no matter how you slice it, men will have to cough up $ to get a relationship/sex w/ a quality woman. She will be in demand, & if a man is too cheap or broke, she will choose another man instead. The cheap/broke man will have to pick a less in demand woman.


I think divorced women end up doing much better than men financially. Say each parent makes $100K. Roughly $67K take home after taxes. But, the guy gives up roughly another 33% for child support so his take home drops down to $33K while his ex is back up to $100K. I have kids so I know there are child care expenses but you can see the difference. Most of the women I date have a decent income, own their own home and rarely have kids under 18. And if they do, they are still doing okay.

Guys don't have to go all the way to NV to possibly get some lovin'. Some areas have AMPs (Asian Massage Parlors). $200 for a massage and a happy ending then away you go. Or they can find a decent escort for a few hundred. Of course they are just paying for her time :) There's a saying for guys - We pay... either way... we pay.
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