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 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 1326
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Who prays for a datePage 54 of 74    (34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74)

it says then 2 and not than 2?


LOL, Well yah,...….It's a dating site so they hope you will be "then 2" and not more "than 2", unless of course one is lookin' for a ………... crowd= 3. "?


From the rules section. I like this rule.
"Either a clear visible picture of you currently, where your face can be seen relatively clear, or no picture -"

In the same sentence, the writer changes his or her mind...………"a clear visible, (Oh, all right) "relatively clear".
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 1327
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I'll have the Prime Rib for dinner & a Margarita too
Posted: 6/1/2018 9:14:35 PM
delated post
 sun_water
Joined: 5/26/2018
Msg: 1328
You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/1/2018 9:31:18 PM

Are you not paying attention to what some of these men are saying??? Plenty have said they might lose interest if a woman doesn't at least offer to chip in after a few dates...

and here is another comment from just a bit ago...


At least 1 man told me he stopped dating a woman because of this reason. He said he had 4 dates with a woman. She didn't offer to chip in any of the dates. He told her after the 4th and last date that "they weren't compatible".
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1329
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/1/2018 9:51:09 PM
Sun, sounds like what Endless was saying, about sex not happening more likely being the real cause. Why didn't he just ask her to contribute? How was she supposed to know when the norm is whoever does the asking does the paying? Women are not mind readers.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 1330
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/1/2018 10:03:12 PM
I remember when I was a kid, and in my 20's, and even in my 30's...it seemed that how everyone described what it meant to be a woman actually was describing being a little girl. Seemed so odd to me that everyone accepted it and was ok with it too. It also always seemed like men and women treated relationships and gender-relations as a power-play, or something to be exploited...or a situation wherein to exploit the other person. This bizarre thing of equating men paying for first dates with "being a man" or with which gender has the value is just one thing among many. Like a stinky societal sore that just won't go away.

I remember many odd things...like how there came a time when it was no longer the perceived norm that men either weren't able or willing to cook, wash dishes, and do laundry. In other words, generally/culturally speaking, men started doing these things. And what was odd is that women everywhere were pissed. Their exact words, from many of them, were "we don't have anything to offer anymore".

...I remember many odd things indeed...


How was she supposed to know when the norm is whoever does the asking does the paying? Women are not mind readers.

That's still one of the biggest mistakes. Don't try to be a mind reader. You're supposed to do according to what you think is appropriate for what you want and who you are. Don't change back and forth according to what the man wants to do. Attitudes about this first-dates-paying business is one of the first indicators of compatibility right at square-one. You pick which you are, and stick to it. If not, you're messing up the voodoo, and being dishonest.

Why didn't he just ask her to contribute?

Whether or not we have to ask...is the point. The voodoo already took place - asking to contribute is doing something after the die has already been cast. Asking to contribute is trying to pretend that things can be other than they've shown that they are. It's too late.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1331
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/1/2018 10:40:28 PM
Drink, to sum this up, men that don't want to pay for dates will end up dateless for the most part. So it's up to the guy whether he wants to be cheap and stay dateless. I do feel it's nice to reciprocate in some way, but I've seen men here say they want that to be in the form of being taken out to dinner. Those men self-castrated
themselves.

I'm giving my 2 cents, just for conversation, because this issue with cheap men doesn't apply to me. I've only dated one cheap guy briefly, and he was from POF. These guys don't stop with wanting to be wined and dined. It's not simply about who pays. There's more to this. I see a dislike for women and only caring about how fast they can have sex with you. These guys are not on my radar to date. I like to date real men, that know how to be a man. That is the allure to date men, manliness. Not acting like you're a woman. That's why some men remain dateless by appearing feminine. A feminine man is very unappealing.
 BLONDE_ANGEL_1
Joined: 4/27/2018
Msg: 1332
You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 5:37:36 AM

Drink, to sum this up, men that don't want to pay for dates will end up dateless for the most part. So it's up to the guy whether he wants to be cheap and stay dateless. I do feel it's nice to reciprocate in some way, but I've seen men here say they want that to be in the form of being taken out to dinner. Those men self-castrated
themselves.

I'm giving my 2 cents, just for conversation, because this issue with cheap men doesn't apply to me.



These guys don't stop with wanting to be wined and dined. It's not simply about who pays. There's more to this. I see a dislike for women and only caring about how fast they can have sex with you. These guys are not on my radar to date. I like to date real men, that know how to be a man. That is the allure to date men, manliness.


also to add: most women want to date a man who has as much or more discretionary income as them.

So if gal like NYer can afford an occasional special meal at a place like Peter Luger's etc. why would she date a "Burger King"?
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 1333
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 5:45:37 AM

Sun, sounds like what Endless was saying, about sex not happening more likely being the real cause

after 4 or 5 dates, most men tend to expect sex to start happening no matter who is paying!!


Why didn't he just ask her to contribute? How was she supposed to know when the norm is whoever does the asking does the paying? Women are not mind readers.

He shouldn't have to ask....

I just cannot imagine letting a man to continue to doll out money week after week without offering (or insisting) to let me chip in....
maybe it is the fact that I work in financing....but I am way too "money minded"...and I don't think it is fair for it to be solely his financial burden for us to be together.
 flowersinthelake
Joined: 5/11/2018
Msg: 1334
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 5:49:37 AM

I'm giving my 2 cents, just for conversation, because this issue with cheap men doesn't apply to me. I've only dated one cheap guy briefly, and he was from POF. These guys don't stop with wanting to be wined and dined.


I would never foot a nickel for any dinner (provided by me in my home, for instance) for somebody like that.


It's not simply about who pays. There's more to this. I see a dislike for women and only caring about how fast they can have sex with you.


Narcissists have to find their supply, somehow.


These guys are not on my radar to date. I like to date real men, that know how to be a man. That is the allure to date men, manliness. Not acting like you're a woman. That's why some men remain dateless by appearing feminine. A feminine man is very unappealing.


This is kind of bullshit. Their effeminacy doesn't have anything to do with whether they own up to their responsibilities as men. It's the narcissists you have to watch out for...

Anyway, the men to which you refer will end up as reclusing MGTOWS, Darwining their way out of the social sphere, don't worry. Narcissistic men will go the same way, into a hell of dementia and loneliness when they have practically used and abused everybody they would.
 ssm508
Joined: 5/27/2018
Msg: 1335
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 8:07:18 AM

Sun, sounds like what Endless was saying, about sex not happening more likely being the real cause. Why didn't he just ask her to contribute? How was she supposed to know when the norm is whoever does the asking does the paying? Women are not mind readers.


Based on what she wrote, we don't know if he asked her out on all 4 dates they had. But for the sake of argument suppose he did. A woman should offer to pay something at least once after 3-4 dates without him asking her to. Not everybody follows the "who asks pays" theory in particular when 2 people had several dates with each other. I think this is independent of sex. A man that was disappointed about not having sex could end it after 3-4 dates even if a woman did offer to pay for some of the dates.
 zsuzsa62
Joined: 1/31/2016
Msg: 1336
You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 8:58:20 AM
Ms. Micki "I just cannot imagine letting a man to continue to doll out money week after week without offering (or insisting) to let me chip in....
maybe it is the fact that I work in financing....but I am way too "money minded"...and I don't think it is fair for it to be solely his financial burden for us to be together."

^^^^^
That's pretty much my mind set too. So much written about who pays, how it "should" be, what it "means" etc. Like any topic, everyone has their own lense of how they see it. This one confuses me though. Never once has who pays or doesn't been an issue in any of my dating. I would assume I'm paying my way, especially before we even know each other. Sometimes he insists, that's fine, but then I would insist the if there's another date. Not because I don't value myself, or I'm worried he expects sex or any other over-thought, complicated issue.
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 1337
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 9:17:14 AM

So if gal like NYer can afford an occasional special meal at a place like Peter Luger's etc. why would she date a "Burger King"?


Because she might want to see his whopper...
 Endless_Summer_Nights
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 1338
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 9:30:01 AM

Why didn't he just ask her to contribute? How was she supposed to know when the norm is whoever does the asking does the paying? Women are not mind readers.


I think it might depend on how well you know someone and what the history is. Earlier I mentioned a woman I dated on and off for a year and a half. I remember one of our dinners being just over $100. When the bill came she suggested we split it. There were also times when I covered a bill in that price range and other times she did. Nothing was said. One of us just took care of it.

Some people look at it as whoever asks does the paying. That might work fine for them. I think of it as two people want to spend time with each other so the financial burden shouldn't all be on one of them. I would love to have someone pay for everything whenever we went out but that wouldn't be fair.

Years ago I would sometimes ask friends to join me when I traveled for my business. Road trips didn't cost much. I already had a room and they paid for most of their food. When it came to flying, they were my guests so I covered their flights. I would also cover an additional room if we needed one. Our most expensive night out was over $2500. That was Halloween at Pure Nightclub in Vegas. Tipped the bouncer $400 to cut the hours long line getting in then bottle service (yes, it's way overpriced) at an outdoor table overlooking the strip with a personal escort to get around the club. I didn't mind paying for that night for my friend and our dates. I had the ability to do it, we had an amazing time and I knew the night was appreciated. There are times when my friend pays for our nights out too. Not as expensive but it's the thought. I guess the point I'm trying to make with this is when your dating (seeing) someone or you have a good friend, there shouldn't be dollar for dollar accounting. The problem arises when one person is always paying and the other is always there for the free night.
 sun_water
Joined: 5/26/2018
Msg: 1339
You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 9:43:33 AM

Sun, sounds like what Endless was saying, about sex not happening more likely being the real cause. Why didn't he just ask her to contribute? How was she supposed to know when the norm is whoever does the asking does the paying? Women are not mind readers.



Based on what she wrote, we don't know if he asked her out on all 4 dates they had.


IIRC she did ask out him at least once on the third or fourth date. If she had thought the person that asks should pay or a man should pay on the first couple of dates (not my opinion or not universally shared opinions), she still had chances to offer paying on the third or fourth dates. But she didn't offer. That would imply to me that she thinks a man should always pay on dates.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 1340
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 12:26:48 PM
Feirene:
Men are unhappier single than women are.
I don't know if I would believe that. I would maybe rephrase that as...men are unhappier not getting laid than women are?


More men are seeking out women, doesn't mean either found a partner it means less women are looking for one.
There could be all kinds of reasons why but it does boil down to less women are looking for a partner.
Well..Depends on "partner." What does that mean? I would agree that more men, at any given time, are seeking out a sex partner than women. As far as looking for committed, LTR, serious partners? Who knows.

Actually on this subject, I base most of my opinions on the fact there are many more men than women in most dating spheres, thus women can have a degree of choice, and can dictate the rules a bit. Living in the '50s or not, Richie Cunningham or not. (Wonder if the Fonz paid for his dates?).....I mean, how many bars have "men's nights" to attract more men?

As far as my own personal druthers? To pay. Who cares. When I was um, more active, I had the money so I blew it. If I was more active now, I'd pay, who cares, I have the money. But I believe ultimate reality boils down to cold hard math, i.e. "what IS"....not "what SHOULD BE." And the "IS" is men outnumber women in dating spheres, so women to an extent, call the shots. And the "SHOULD BE" ie, more women paying for dates, may be coming..but change in traditions is indeed slow. Women can still band their fist on the table and say "Cuz I said so!!!" Of all the "equality" statutes written in to laws under pressure from equality groups, somehow paying for dates wasn't written in. Maybe men's equality groups should hire some lobbyists to fix that. I bet Trump would sign it.

But I get the mens' arguments. That women want their cake and eat it, too. And it does p*ss some men off. But these men who fight this, EXCEPT a few, will be on the outside looking in, in the dating world, at least for a while...in my view. And I believe the men who DO have the money, but fight this on principle, must have women chasing THEM cuz otherwise I'm left scratching my head. I can see broke men having to tote along a "jaws of life" to pry that wallet open, but men with the money to blow? WTF is with that?
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1341
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 1:15:03 PM
I agree it's nice to do something for the guy, and I do. I'm just not on a time schedule nor are those looking for a relationship. Men are trying to diminish us by putting us down. Not happening.

Endless, if you invited a woman for dinner, I don't care how expensive it gets, it was your offer. How can a guy presume to know if a woman can afford to split the cost of a dinner he invites her to? This is just crazy talk☺ $100 for 2 people isn't exorbitant.

When I was younger, teenager younger, it was always said a "particular" man would accept money from a woman. It wasn't a good man.

So how do men date that want $$$? Do you say to Sally, hey Sally, let's go out on Saturday to Mangia Restorante, and be prepared to pay for you bill? That's not a date. That's 2 friends going out to dinner. Paying shows intent to an extent to invest in the relationship. If a guy has his hand out, he's looking to use you as a sperm bucket☺and have you pay for it too! You'd have to have a low self worth to fall for that.
 ssm508
Joined: 5/27/2018
Msg: 1342
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 1:45:01 PM

Endless, if you invited a woman for dinner, I don't care how expensive it gets, it was your offer. How can a guy presume to know if a woman can afford to split the cost of a dinner he invites her to? This is just crazy talk? $100 for 2 people isn't exorbitant.


If there was a "host" that arranged and set up the date, then I may better understand the theory that the host (person that asked) paying for the entire date. But that usually wasn't the case on the first handful of dates I had with women.

Whenever a woman asked me out, I didn't expect her to pay for the entire date. I would still offer to pay for at least my portion of the bill. Sometimes more than that. Regardless of who asked, both people usually had some input on the details of the date. If a woman wanted to go someplace that I felt was too expensive, I would make a counter suggestion that was cheaper.

Only 1 woman insisted on paying for the entire date for me because she asked me out. There were other women that have paid the entire date. But for different reasons.
 sun_water
Joined: 5/26/2018
Msg: 1343
You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 3:11:30 PM

So how do men date that want $$$? Do you say to Sally, hey Sally, let's go out on Saturday to Mangia Restorante, and be prepared to pay for you bill? That's not a date. That's 2 friends going out to dinner. Paying shows intent to an extent to invest in the relationship.


Unless one person pays the for other, it's not an official date? LOL. I never presume a man (especially a man I don't know that well) is going to pay for me on a date. Unless he insists on paying. Like I said a few pages earlier, the only time I think splitting the bill is tacky is when a man ordered something that was clearly more expensive than what I had and he suggests paying 50-50.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/2/2018
Msg: 1344
Pay for what you eat
Posted: 6/2/2018 3:16:02 PM

When I was younger, teenager younger, it was always said a "particular" man would accept money from a woman. It wasn't a good man.


That just shows that you grew up in a time and place when sexist ideas were prevalent. It doesn’t mean what you were taught was right. I bet when you were a teenager women were just starting to enter the work force in large numbers, so the idea that men should pay was still accepted. A man who accepts money from a woman is no more of a loser than a woman who accepts money from a man - especially since these days both men and women have their own jobs. Also in a relationship even men who pay for dates accept gifts from their women. You would spend money on a man for Father’s Day, his birthday or Christmas, wouldn’t you?
 Endless_Summer_Nights
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 1345
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It's all about the dollar...
Posted: 6/2/2018 3:18:22 PM

Endless, if you invited a woman for dinner, I don't care how expensive it gets, it was your offer. How can a guy presume to know if a woman can afford to split the cost of a dinner he invites her to? This is just crazy talk☺ $100 for 2 people isn't exorbitant.


I think this goes back to a question I asked before. When do women feel they should contribute do a date? I'm reading our conversations here but they hardly relate to what I experience.

For my first dates, maybe we talk for a couple of days then I ask if she'd like to go out Saturday night. So we make plans to do something. A lot of my first dates involve food/drinks. Sometimes we goto a comedy club, see a local band or maybe pick up sandwiches then head to the beach. Or a combination of these. I think it's a given that I'm going to pay. Not because some people think I should or because that's how it was done 50 years ago. It's just what I feel I should do. Some women I see offer to pay for part of the first date, some don't. A few have even paid for the whole date (dinner/drinks). Okay... we have a good time that night and mutually agree we want to see each other again. I'm going to go for my wallet for the second date. A majority of woman I see are doing the same thing. At least for part of the date. A small percentage still haven't opened their wallet. On to date number 3. At this point we're usually in it together. One person is paying for one thing and the other is covering something else without anything being said. It just happens naturally. Flags are going up like the United Nations if I'm still paying for everything by the end of this date. Those are the ones that stand out and have me wondering if I'm going to be the one doing everything if we continue.

You ask how a guy can know if a woman can afford to split the cost of a dinner? A guy can get a feel for how she's doing financially. Looking at woman's profiles, I see a LOT of them are in the medical profession. It seems like half the woman on this site do something in that field. They usually make decent money. I've gone out with a woman that was a clinical liaison (I had to Google that one :) ), one that ran a health care facility and another that was the head of advertising for one. All in the 6 figure range plus child support with kids going to private schools. I've been lucky the woman I've seen have good careers. When talking about their jobs and lifestyle before we went out, it was easy to know they were doing pretty good financially. I would have no problem dating someone who is a cashier at Target. I'd know she probably makes minimum wage so I'd be more likely to not have a problem picking up the tab most of the time because things might be tight for her financially. That $100 dinner that we talked about. That's only 2-3 hours work for some people. Others have to work all day and then some to make that much money. And if that is the case, it's more important to cover their living expenses.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 1346
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 5:24:31 PM

I don't know if I would believe that. I would maybe rephrase that as...men are unhappier not getting laid than women are?


There are way more men looking to get laid (and being disappointed) than women, i think that's true. Women like sex also though and are looking for that.
Overall there are less women looking for men, for whatever reasons.

I base this on using a couple of popular dating sites, a fair few niche sites (of interest (both popular and unpopular)), going to socials, using game sites even (always get guys on there asking me if i'm single and all i did was interact with them in a game) and using forums. It's the same story everywhere, which is mostly complaining about the lack of interested women, and occasionally a lack of women they are interested in.

On the more niche sites it's incredibly high the difference. On hookup sites the men expect to meet straight away without concern for safety and less women are willing to do that and so that makes it so less men are satisfied (as they can't make the effort to reassure women they are ok to meet or they aren't willing to) and i think it's because most of these guys aren't single so don't have the time. I think hookup sites and niche sites have way more attached people on them than dating ones but on dating ones there will be some and so they bump the figures up (most won't be looking to leave their relationship), most who are attached will keep it to themselves and very few are honest about it so i don't have a good idea of how many and go off the guys with no profile pics or the ones who show them while chatting then hide them.


Well..Depends on "partner." What does that mean? I would agree that more men, at any given time, are seeking out a sex partner than women. As far as looking for committed, LTR, serious partners? Who knows.


Relationship, that's what i mean. A hookup isn't a partner to me, neither is fwb or anything else casual.
I'd say overall more people aren't interested in a relationship than there used to be, of both genders, and so don't use sites at all. But it's mostly men complaining they can't find one or can't attract anyone. They might be lying about wanting a relationship also but they're unhappier because they whinge about it publicly. And women have a reputation for being whingers but you hardly see them complaining, think their biggest issue is their profile being ignored from what i can remember (thus contributing to way too much inappropriate mail).

I even see it on a gaming site i use. Men asking me if i'm single when i'm there to switch off and just play games, have a chill. In they swoop desperate for female validation. Had one whinge at me tonight because i didn't reply to his sh1t message saying he wished i lived nearer to him, idk him and don't care.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 1347
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Who prays for a date
Posted: 6/2/2018 5:30:19 PM

LOL, Well yah,...….It's a dating site so they hope you will be "then 2" and not more "than 2", unless of course one is lookin' for a ………... crowd= 3. "?


I never do get internet jokes. The person needs to laugh at their own joke for me to get they have told one usually.


From the rules section. I like this rule.
"Either a clear visible picture of you currently, where your face can be seen relatively clear, or no picture -"

In the same sentence, the writer changes his or her mind...………"a clear visible, (Oh, all right) "relatively clear".


Idk where the rules section even is. Might find it later and have a look what other funnies are in there.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 1348
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You're gonna be friend zoned
Posted: 6/2/2018 5:57:09 PM

Drink, to sum this up, men that don't want to pay for dates will end up dateless for the most part. So it's up to the guy whether he wants to be cheap and stay dateless. I do feel it's nice to reciprocate in some way, but I've seen men here say they want that to be in the form of being taken out to dinner. Those men self-castrated
themselves.

I'm giving my 2 cents, just for conversation, because this issue with cheap men doesn't apply to me. I've only dated one cheap guy briefly, and he was from POF. These guys don't stop with wanting to be wined and dined. It's not simply about who pays. There's more to this. I see a dislike for women and only caring about how fast they can have sex with you. These guys are not on my radar to date. I like to date real men, that know how to be a man. That is the allure to date men, manliness. Not acting like you're a woman. That's why some men remain dateless by appearing feminine. A feminine man is very unappealing.

But that's not true. Men and women everywhere are dating successfully with this approach. Have been for a long time. Even some in here have explained this over and over.

It's also important to note what wording such as yours reveals...

That it's a powerplay for some, and about manipulative mischaracterization. If a given man can't get dates because he doesn't want to use this "traditional" approach, what you're really doing when you point it out is gloating over the power that you have. And this is antithetical to how some of us view a real relationship.

The fact that some in here are arguing that men are unhappier single is yet another bit of proof that it's really about power. And treating a relationship like it's a power situation is never good.

It also shows the manipulativeness of women towards men that they're notorious for. Women have this power precisely because many men are indeed stupid. Heck, few humans of both genders understand basic logic concerning science, religion, their emotional maturity, intellectual development, and social adjustment...and way too many people have basic problems with the opposite gender and relationships already. No one's educating them. Just look at all of the books in the library and you-tube videos trying to give ass loads of screwed up advice. And when a woman tries to tell a man what it means to be a man in a manipulative manner, she's really taking advantage of a boy and wanting to remain as a little girl herself. Something that's hardly ever talked about is how women still have this whole repertoire of how to manipulate men dishonestly, and it's still unnoticed by many men.

You're right - there is a strong dynamic pressuring men to cater to these things...but this doesn't prove anything other than how it's about power. And ambiguous rhetoric like "allure of manliness" being applied to something like a man paying for first dates demonstrates this. As I explained previously...it's not really about financial or gender equality. When two people go on first dates, it's supposed to be because they want to get to know each other in order to decide if they want to pursue something, and it's supposed to be because they're both interested in the other and something real with each other. When you have this attitude that he's not manly if he doesn't first-date-pay and he can't go out with you if he doesn't...that practically proves that this isn't your agenda on those first dates and that you're not the kind of person who wants that - even if this isn't true about you and you just don't realize how it's working and you just keep going along with all of this because it's "just the way things are done".

The new age that is coming is one in which more women have the spine to decide to not take advantage of this situation...who really want a real relationship, not something in which they're confused about being independent, codependent, or interdependent...or any of that crazy jazz.

If you really wanted a man who "has balls" and knows how to "be a man", then you'd understand what it means to risk never getting a date when he "stands his ground" in this regard. You'd respect that it's not about him being stubborn, cheap, or selfish. You'd stop dishonestly and manipulatively talking like it's about him needing to man-up and instead you'll learn that women need to woman-up. Stop being little girls. Realize that the man just doesn't want to encourage and exploit you remaining a little girl. If you really wanted a "real man", and for a real relationship, then you'd conduct your dating approaches in a manner that fits the idea of wanting such a thing instead of being so dissonant.

Men being required to pay on a first date cheapens both of you. Degrades you both. And he is trying to not do that...sometimes going dateless opting for that chance that a woman will figure this out and grow up.

If you don't find a man attractive or manly because his first-date practices aren't "traditional"...you should ask yourself WHY is it unattractive. And if your answer isn't concrete...if it uses any wording that is ambiguous rhetoric in any way...and if the logic doesn't make sense, then you have really just avoided answering the question. And then you need to ask yourself the question again.

Do you say to Sally, hey Sally, let's go out on Saturday to Mangia Restorante, and be prepared to pay for you bill? That's not a date. That's 2 friends going out to dinner. Paying shows intent to an extent to invest in the relationship.

This is another example of dishonest mischaracterization, in order to manipulate. As well as proving what someone's real agenda is, and whether or not they understand what a real relationship is.

The first few dates ARE supposed to be like two friends going out. But for the purpose of initially exploring the possibility of a relationship. If it takes a certain kind of money-handling to show an intent, then one or both people must be pretty damned stupid if they can't tell...there must be a sad lack of communication. Moreover, whenever one has to "financially invest" but the other doesn't...then there is something seriously wrong with the dynamics. Again, this is antithetical to the idea of both being interested in the other, in both trying to get to know the other, not making any foregone conclusions, and both wanting a real relationship.

"Romance" and "courting" comes afterwards. When it actually means something. Not to "win the other", but to show how you feel about the other after you know who each other is and have begun sharing life together in an actual relationship.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/2/2018
Msg: 1349
You can’t buy a relationship
Posted: 6/2/2018 7:03:52 PM

Drink, to sum this up, men that don't want to pay for dates will end up dateless for the most part. So it's up to the guy whether he wants to be cheap and stay dateless. I do feel it's nice to reciprocate in some way, but I've seen men here say they want that to be in the form of being taken out to dinner. Those men self-castrated
themselves.


Offering to pay for women won’t get a guy more dates - I tried it. You can’t buy a relationship. The only thing a guy can do is interact with women as human beings, not something to be bought as property. If a guy is dateless it’s probably for other reasons than not wanting to pay for women.
 Inicia
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 1350
You can’t buy a relationship
Posted: 6/2/2018 8:47:48 PM
yeah my broke ex had tons of dates while with me lol and my money did not buy anything for me--- LIL laugh in life
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