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 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 1551
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I did notice when a woman unlocked my door after I had opened the passenger door for her. It WAS a nice thing for her to do, and appreciated.


This was the routine in my last relationship.
 reverendswine
Joined: 4/14/2018
Msg: 1552
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 11:41:27 AM

Mr. Pig can not post to this thread


Hey, hey, hey. Watch it with the Tomfoolery, Boocephus.

Nice new picture.
 BLONDE_ANGEL_1
Joined: 4/27/2018
Msg: 1553
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 11:47:06 AM

My personal feeling is that behind the viewpoint that some women hold that men should always pay and women should never contribute, lies an undercurrent of dislike or mistrust of men. What led to these negative feelings is different from woman to woman. These same women will be quick to deny it and tell you that they love men.


Always & never can be dangerous words, I do not think men should always pay & women should never contribute.

I don't automatically love one gender either, or love men as a whole. Rather, I would love or want to be friends w/ kind, honest, well mannered men of good character. Not ALL men...

The always/never is another indicator of borderline/black & white thinking which can be quite dangerous.

I also have to add I don't think each & every poster on this forum is 100% honest in their posts or even honest w/ themselves. They may be secretly embarrassed by poor relationship choices or by revealing too much of their personal business on an open forum, then post more to justify their initial post or back pedal when ppl call them out on things.

I post some of what I post bec. I got tired of hearing ppl whining about the outcome of their relationships when they ignore certain red flags or try to project their life onto others.

The life I led growing up in NYC & surrounding area is certainly different than a person in a more rural area, or of a different generation or of a different gender or appearance.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1554
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 11:47:39 AM
Ssm508, omg and lol☺ God help us women if we accepted treatment as dictated by some men. It would be forced sex at his apt on a first date. Surely if you had a female child, you would not raise her to be treated this way.

Some men truly don't know how to treat a woman. They had poor examples for fathers, then there are the women that set poor examples by how they accept that treatment. Among my friends, the ones that had normal parents, they have normal lives with good relationships. They were taught how to treat their friends and their romantic partners.

I have to ask men that want to treat women poorly, is this what you saw at home? How is it working for you?
 ssm508
Joined: 5/27/2018
Msg: 1555
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 12:18:26 PM

Ssm508, omg and lol? God help us women if we accepted treatment as dictated by some men. It would be forced sex at his apt on a first date. Surely if you had a female child, you would not raise her to be treated this way.

Once again there isn't a direct correlation between who pays for a date and how a woman is treated. As mentioned earlier by myself and others, some men that insist on paying for all dates end up treating women very poorly. They think they can call all the shots in a relationship because they paid for the dates.

As for the women that changed their mind, I didn't put a gun to their head and force them to do something they didn't like. Some people can actually change their mind because they liked the counterpoints made by the another person.


I agree that age and geography can be factors in some cases, but that's not always true, as MsMicki demonstrated above.

Maybe not always. Sure there are women in their 60s that would offer to split the bill and there are women in their 20s who want a man to pay. But I think probably a higher percentage of younger women would be willing to split bill.
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1556
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 12:34:00 PM


My personal feeling is that behind the viewpoint that some women hold that men should always pay and women should never contribute, lies an undercurrent of dislike or mistrust of men. What led to these negative feelings is different from woman to woman. These same women will be quick to deny it and tell you that they love men.


Always & never can be dangerous words, I do not think men should always pay & women should never contribute.

I don't automatically love one gender either, or love men as a whole. Rather, I would love or want to be friends w/ kind, honest, well mannered men of good character. Not ALL men...

The always/never is another indicator of borderline/black & white thinking which can be quite dangerous.


BA, notice I said some women. You conveniently forgot to bold that word.
 BLONDE_ANGEL_1
Joined: 4/27/2018
Msg: 1557
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 12:48:24 PM
you conveniently tried to deflect my POV.

your script flipping doesn't work on me
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1558
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 12:49:19 PM
Definitely not a given that a man that pays for a date is an overall good guy, but it's a good starting point. You don't start with accepting poor behavior and think it will get better from a guy or a woman. Today, women make more money, so I can see why they'd contribute and even pay for certain dates. Guys want to feel valued too and contributing makes dating money go farther.

My position is still that if a man asks you out on initial dates, he should pay for them, but also he should be expected to be treated great and like a man. Not to say that every women values men that pay for dates, but I do. I'm appreciative of money a guy spends on me. Men do show they value a woman by spending money on her.

If you look at the men here that scoff at paying for initial dates, you'll clearly see they have problems with women with only wanting them for sex. Men that pay for dates can be like that too, but you can see they put a timeline on "x" amount of paid dates gets you sex. Not someone I'd keep dating, so that when men say, but I paid for dinner, and the date wasn't worth it, because it didn't end in sex......you see the problem, don't you? They put that attitude out there, then there's no 2nd date. So now they conclude paying for a date doesn't get you sex, and that would be right, but since it's all they wanted, they don't see a "value" to paying for a date. Their conclusion, if they were normal is, women are not prostitutes, and if I treat them right, which includes a "good attitude", they will in turn receive good treatment, but their only goal is sex, so they can't see beyond that.
 ssm508
Joined: 5/27/2018
Msg: 1559
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 1:12:07 PM

My position is still that if a man asks you out on initial dates, he should pay for them

Should a woman pay for the initial dates when she asks him out? Among the women that asked me out, only one of them offered to pay for that specific reason. The rest offered to split the bill, pay the tip, or some other relatively small portion of the bill. That didn't bother me because I don't expect someone that might be a virtual stranger to pay for me. Even though some people may not agree with me, at least I'm being consistent.

In general, I might understand the "who asks pays" rule better when one person is the "host" and arranges the date. However on my first dates, both people usually have some input about the details of the date. Regardless of who asks.
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1560
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 1:12:36 PM

you conveniently tried to deflect my POV.

your script flipping doesn't work on me.


No script flipping was involved on my end. You deliberated misrepresented the context of what I said by skipping over a crucial word, which was "some", and instead tried to change my meaning to "all"

Nice try, but attempting to change the context of what I said doesn't work on me.
 BLONDE_ANGEL_1
Joined: 4/27/2018
Msg: 1561
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 1:44:29 PM
"You deliberated misrepresented the context of what I said by skipping over a crucial word"

I didn't omit it...

you wrote what you wrote...

but speaking of misrepresenting...

you are not some 80 something woman...

but a 60 year old former forumite...

who I do not care to engage w/ bec. I think she is INSANE...

ta ta Ms. Skies
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 1562
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 1:53:33 PM
^^^msg #1574:
"You deliberated misrepresented the context of what I said by skipping over a crucial word"

I didn't omit it...

you wrote what you wrote...

but speaking of misrepresenting...

you are not some 80 something woman...

but a 60 year old former forumite...

who I do not care to engage w/ bec. I think she is INSANE...

ta ta Ms. Skies


"Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown."---Wm Shakespeare
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1563
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 2:12:54 PM
Ssm508, you're entitled to ask for things to be the way you want them to be. It's your life, your prerogative with what feels right or that you think is right, but some women may feel differently. The thing is to know your date, will she accept your way of dating. If not, choose different women, but also realize why some women are turned off. That goes for any man. If a stance of not wanting to pay for a date partially or wholly effects a man's number of dates, that's something they live with just like I live with my decision of thinking a man should pay for the initial dates he asks me on, but that has never been a problem for me.

I never asked a man out. I can't imagine asking and then asking him to pay, especially if I'm choosing the venue. That's a funny thing to do, because it means women can ask men out, choose where to go, and then "may" be using them. I think if you speak to a woman, you can pick up if she likes you, wants to get to know you, and isn't just looking to go someplace and have someone else pay for it. Same would apply for asking a woman out. I don't think any guy should be used, but sometimes the only way we (men and women) know is by going on that first date, so why not make it a relatively inexpensive date?

You can buy attention with money, but you're not going to buy love or loyalty and other good things, and a woman isn't going to get those things by offering sex on beginning dates.
 sun_water
Joined: 5/26/2018
Msg: 1564
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 2:14:46 PM

I agree that age and geography can be factors in some cases, but that's not always true, as MsMicki demonstrated above.

This is certainly not scientific. But I have also talked to various women about this. The following is for women in my social circle. The majority of women born before 1960 prefer a man to pay. Women born in the 1960s and 1970s have mixed views. The majority of women born after 1980 prefer to pay their share of the bill.
 TomásIasan
Joined: 5/17/2018
Msg: 1565
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 2:17:55 PM

Definitely not a given that a man that pays for a date is an overall good guy, but it's a good starting point. You don't start with accepting poor behavior and think it will get better from a guy or a woman.

My position is still that if a man asks you out on initial dates, he should pay for them, but also he should be expected to be treated great and like a man.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71o3hq6iSPM

Matthew Hussey video you NY58 you need to watch it as well as any lady like you.
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1566
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 2:46:25 PM

I didn't omit it...

you wrote what you wrote...


Yes, I wrote what I wrote, and I stand by it. Either your reading comprehension is faulty, and you made a mistake by missing a crucial word, or you deliberately chose to twist my words. Given your history of taking other people's posts out of context, I choose to believe the latter.


but speaking of misrepresenting...

you are not some 80 something woman...

but a 60 year old former forumite...

who I do not care to engage w/ bec. I think she is INSANE...

ta ta Ms. Skies


BA, I am whiterose0 and always have been. If you don't care to engage me, then why quote my post and try to misrepresent what I said? Sorry, but you don't get to come after someone and then just go on your merry way unscathed. It doesn't work that way.

Speaking of misrepresentation and former forumites, weren't you posting as Wilkes_Barre_Candy with a photo of a much younger brunette, and later changed it to your own photos?

I think it's hilarious that you want to accuse me of being someone else, when you are guilty of the very thing you're accusing me of. Projection much?
 sun_water
Joined: 5/26/2018
Msg: 1567
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 2:54:39 PM

Definitely not a given that a man that pays for a date is an overall good guy, but it's a good starting point. You don't start with accepting poor behavior and think it will get better from a guy or a woman.

I think a man's actions and statements during a date would be a better starting point than who paid for it. I much rather have a second date with a man that was polite and respectful during a date. And accepted my offer to split the bill. Instead of a man that acted like a jerk during a date. But insisted on paying the bill.
 ssm508
Joined: 5/27/2018
Msg: 1568
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 3:09:40 PM

Ssm508, you're entitled to ask for things to be the way you want them to be. It's your life, your prerogative with what feels right or that you think is right, but some women may feel differently. The thing is to know your date, will she accept your way of dating. If not, choose different women, but also realize why some women are turned off. That goes for any man. If a stance of not wanting to pay for a date partially or wholly effects a man's number of dates, that's something they live with just like I live with my decision of thinking a man should pay for the initial dates he asks me on, but that has never been a problem for me.

That has rarely been a problem for me as well. Most women I had dates with offered to pay something on the first or second date. There was 1 woman that didn't offer until the third date.


so why not make it a relatively inexpensive date?

That's one thing we agree on.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 1569
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 3:16:41 PM

Definitely not a given that a man that pays for a date is an overall good guy, but it's a good starting point. You don't start with accepting poor behavior and think it will get better from a guy or a woman. Today, women make more money, so I can see why they'd contribute and even pay for certain dates. Guys want to feel valued too and contributing makes dating money go farther.

Huh?? you say poor behavior....what poor behavior are you talking about???


My position is still that if a man asks you out on initial dates, he should pay for them, but also he should be expected to be treated great and like a man. Not to say that every women values men that pay for dates, but I do. I'm appreciative of money a guy spends on me. Men do show they value a woman by spending money on her.

That is one warped view of "value"...
My guy shows me he values me by how he treats me, by respecting me, by being there for me and by actually telling me...
Spending money on a woman will not guarantee that he values her.....


If you look at the men here that scoff at paying for initial dates, you'll clearly see they have problems with women with only wanting them for sex. Men that pay for dates can be like that too, but you can see they put a timeline on "x" amount of paid dates gets you sex. Not someone I'd keep dating, so that when men say, but I paid for dinner, and the date wasn't worth it, because it didn't end in sex......you see the problem, don't you? They put that attitude out there, then there's no 2nd date. So now they conclude paying for a date doesn't get you sex, and that would be right, but since it's all they wanted, they don't see a "value" to paying for a date. Their conclusion, if they were normal is, women are not prostitutes, and if I treat them right, which includes a "good attitude", they will in turn receive good treatment, but their only goal is sex, so they can't see beyond that

You are all over the place here....first you say they have issues with women only wanting sex......
then you say men think if they pay for dinner they should get sex...
and that there is no "value" in paying for a date..
but above you said they show they value a woman by spending money on her......
Good Lord....I can't keep up!!
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1570
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 3:58:44 PM
^^^^ The post is confusing, but I think she's trying to say that the men who only want women for sex wouldn't see any value in paying for the first few dates because it wouldn't result in sex. Then I think she's saying that men who are normal would treat women right and have a good attitude, i.e. by paying for their meals with no expectation of sex. So she's implying that the men who want sex or don't want to pay for the initial dates are not normal men.
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 1571
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 4:06:55 PM

Spending money on a woman will not guarantee that he values her.....


Indeed.
Don't a lot of rich men spend money on a woman to "buy" her affections?
Don't rich married men spend a lot of money on their mistresses to keep them around?

Treating them as another commodity.


You are all over the place here...


Ain't that the truth.


I never asked a man out.


And yet, you claim to see a "strong, independent woman" when you look in the mirror?

Who's standing in front of you when you look in the mirror?
 mahwahgirl339114
Joined: 10/31/2017
Msg: 1572
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 4:41:03 PM
^^^ A woman's strength is not evidenced by her taking on a man's role.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/2/2018
Msg: 1573
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 6:21:13 PM
^^^ How is asking somebody out for a date just a man’s role? To do that you need self-esteem and the willingness to risk rejection. This is something both men and women are capable of.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 1574
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 7:19:30 PM

^^^ A woman's strength is not evidenced by her taking on a man's role.


Hmmm........you mean the role that was defined back when women weren't allowed to work outside the home, or drink in public, or vote??

If you prefer to live in that century....have at it...
I'll stick with the century where women have went to the moon and run for president....and paid for their own dinners!!
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 1575
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/13/2018 8:20:30 PM

^^^ A woman's strength is not evidenced by her taking on a man's role.


It's certainly not evidenced by sitting back and just waiting for whatever life tosses at her.
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