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 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1601
Paying for a datePage 65 of 74    (34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74)

Whiterose, really, so you always pay 50% of bills? Sure.


I always offer to split the bill. I really don't understand what's so hard to believe about that. Most men in my age group are retired and don't have money to burn.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1602
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 9:41:18 AM
Yes, a man asks you out, he typically pays the bill. Men are our natural predators. They should do something to show their good inventions. Of course it doesn't always mean their intentions are good, but those that don't want to fulfill their obligation for a date they initiate do show their feelings about women and their intentions.

Ssm, I still don't understand why you feel the way you do, and still require dates to not pay for themselves. Why is that? I'm not challenging you, just asking why?

Whiterose, you're entitled to live life on your terms, but then I have to question, why are you ever permitting a man to pay anything towards your date? Especially with what you've said about retirees. Offfering to pay? Why are you not paying all the time and not settling for less?
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1603
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 10:11:31 AM

Whiterose, you're entitled to live life on your terms, but then I have to question, why are you ever permitting a man to pay anything towards your date? Especially with what you've said about retirees. Offfering to pay? Why are you not paying all the time and not settling for less?


If I give a man some bills to cover my half of the tab, and he refuses to accept them, there is nothing I can do about it but be gracious and thank him. I can't force him to take my money. That doesn't mean he didn't appreciate my offer. How am I settling for less by offering?
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 1604
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 10:20:50 AM

I've taken bfs and husbands out for dinner,





No man ever complained to me,


Hmmm.
And where are they all now, again?

But you DID marry the 2 husbands, and those marriages FAILED.

Unlike the couple I just saw in a local newspaper who just celebrated their 70th anniversary.
SEVENTlETH.

Can't imagine why someone would choose to actually marry someone "incompatible" in the first place.

We know they weren't arranged marriages.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1605
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 10:33:19 AM
Whiterose, you've proved you think you're entitled. Who thinks they should pay their own way on dates, then continually lets the men pay? So you're a little entitled, like being a little pregnant? Yes, you can make a man accept that you pay for yourself, of course you can. So now you're playing the entitled woman card.

Fullofpoop, where are they now, I think it's a tv show☺ I dismissed them due to not being compatible. You know, like you're supposed to do and not marry them. Thank you for caring and asking! You're sweet, can't imagine why no one has snapped you up already.
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1606
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 11:00:06 AM

Whiterose, you've proved you think you're entitled. Who thinks they should pay their own way on dates, then continually lets the men pay?


Who said it was continual? Some men took me up on my offer or let me get the drinks or tip. Half the time, I invited men out for dates and paid the entire bill.


So you're a little entitled, like being a little pregnant? Yes, you can make a man accept that you pay for yourself, of course you can. So now you're playing the entitled woman card.


You're reading into it what you want to read - not what was actually said.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 1607
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 11:04:54 AM

Micki, your relationship has been completely 50/50? Why is the bf doing any hard labor at your home with helping you with things? Taking it out on his hide? You ladies are free to do what you want or to make believe you do things a certain way to please men.


Yes, actually, my relationship is pretty close to being 50/50...or as we like to say 100/100 because we are both giving it our full attention!!
and what is it you mean when you ask "taking it out on his hide" when he helps me out ? Isn't taking it out of someone's hide a punishment??? If you are asking if I reward him with sex....then No, because I don't play that game. Sex happens because we enjoy it with each other, not because one or the other did something nice. Will I give him an extra special massage if he does physical labor for me...hell yeah....we're old and it hurts us to do stuff these days!!
It is a relationship....he helps me....I help him.....he buys dinner....I buy dinner...
when I cook for us, he normally buys the meat and I provide the rest.
Neither one of us feel only 1 person in a 2 person relationship should be the sole provider/contributor to our entertainment and food.

You didn't answer my question....why is cooking for a man any different than offering to split the bill?

and as for your "make believe you do things"...
There is no make believe ....I AM in a relationship with a good man... and that relationship has been going strong for over 3 years because there is equal respect for each other and the things we do for each other.
 CBGB77
Joined: 12/15/2017
Msg: 1608
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 11:06:28 AM
My girlfriend bought me dinner last night. Actually I had planned to buy her dinner because we were going to go to an out door concert that was near my house. They sell these great "wood-fire oven" pizzas there. I was going to buy one for us to share but then the concert got rained out. My girlfriend said she had been looking forward to eating pizza so I drove her to a restaurant nearby that made vegan pizza(it's like a regular pizza but with vegan cheese). When the bill came she insisted on paying because I drove. She is really sweet.She is going to make me dinner at her house tonite.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1609
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 11:06:40 AM
Read what you originally wrote. Now you want to say you take men out to dinner? I'll play along. What if there are no 2nd dates, you think it's okay to accept a stranger paying for you? The nerve! The sense of entitlement! ☺
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1610
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 11:22:46 AM

Read what you originally wrote. Now you want to say you take men out to dinner? I'll play along. What if there are no 2nd dates, you think it's okay to accept a stranger paying for you? The nerve! The sense of entitlement! ?


There is no sense of entitlement on my end. I've made no secret of the fact that I've asked men out on dates. I mentioned in an earlier post that I invited my present partner out for coffee first.

For purposes of online dating, for the first meeting, I've always let a man know beforehand that it would be Dutch. I typically arrived at the venue before the man did, and bought my own drink. If there were no further dates, neither of us were out any money.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1611
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 11:25:31 AM

You took my words out of context. I was talking about women born after 1980 in my social circle. I didn't say that was true (or false) for this entire demographic as a whole.

I knew you said it wasn't scientific (a claim can be critiqued either way). But yes, I didn't put in perspective what you were saying... gals in your social circle by what They have Said to you. Which yes, rightfully questions my automatic "That's completely false" statement + I was taking the 1980 marker in the wrong, as that was just your assessment from the gals you talked to who were younger by that mark.

That said though, I will say this: That is what they have Said to you. This, like a handful of subjects, people aren't going to give accurate answers. And people can also take the question out of context. And notably in the younger generation, more appreciate the "PC" take on things, which can skew how one feels On Paper VS In Action.

An example would be like OKC's common question: How many dates until you sleep with someone: 1-2, 3-5, or 6+. The gals I have had dates on who said 6+, if we Did end up clicking, none lasted more than 5 dates before sex. Usually around 3-4 for those. It's sort of mirroring the whole "do what I say, don't do what I do" type of thing when something can be a touchy subject.

What gets me though is Not that they're OK with going dutch on All Dates -- but from your survey in your social circle, the younger generations say they PREFER to go dutch on All Dates all the time. That's a damn bold statement, and a Huge Difference. And also a Huge Difference from that bold claim would be Preferring to Contribute some, at some points or paying for a whole date once in a while when he does for a lot of them (ie Preferring the guy does not pay for Everything on Every Date, Every Time).

But I still stand by my stance of "completely false" to the gals' truthiness, even when it comes from your social circle -- unless you live in a Really unique environment where society is Very Very different. :) BUT, my guess would be that they were taking the question in a different context, like Preferring that they solidly contribute to the dating processes or are OK with going dutch or you-got-this-one-i-got-next (although some will SAY that "on paper", but when in practice, will at least take a hit in interest in the guy).

Of course there is a difference. In my previous posts, I have acknowledged that sometimes what a woman offered to pay on my first or second dates was a snack / drink after I had paid for a more expensive item or the tip. But that was fine with me. I have said before it doesn't have to be 50-50.

That's a different story than splitting something like a dinner bill, though. It's not a "So they didn't do exactly 50/50". There's a big difference between splitting a dinner bill and me saying "just throw me a 20" (instead of 25), while I also get the tip.... VS me paying the dinner bill and she covers the tip, or I get the whole thing but she buys the 1st round of drinks at the bar down the block as a show of appreciation.

One is the positive principle of contributing Something as a show of appreciation -- and the other is going dutch (but don't worry about it, babe; just give me roughly your part, and I got the tip). There is a solid difference between the two.

Dating is not necessarily tit for tat. A man paying for an item that cost $20 doesn't mean a woman must buy an item of equal value.

And I agree. It shouldn't be. Especially when Actually Going Dutch, you don't want to whip out a calculator. The gal may pay a little more than 50%, may pay a little less. When the guy is in a position of split-the-bill, he will often err on him picking up a bit of the slack -- the little extras (babe, just give me 25, I got the rest). The level of that "extra slack", which is fine to do as a guy -- is about the same amount as the Different situation where the gal just gets the tip, or he gets the whole shebang but she gets the 1st round of drinks at the bar after, etc.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1612
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 11:43:24 AM
Read what you originally wrote. Now you want to say you take men out to dinner? I'll play along. What if there are no 2nd dates, you think it's okay to accept a stranger paying for you? The nerve! The sense of entitlement!

NG, please explain, why should the woman show appreciation instead of actually paying for herself? Why only the tip, why only a drink, being the lesser part of the bill?
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1613
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 11:48:18 AM
NewYorker, in cases in which the man asked me out - yes, I offered to split the bill. I think it was pretty obvious to most people what my meaning was.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1614
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 12:18:06 PM
I understood what you said. Its entitlement to not pay your way, but then you still think it's okay to make the gesture and not follow thru. If you want to claim you pay your way, and it's the right thing to do, you should be paying for yourself, always. You can't have it both ways, then claim others are showing entitlement when you do the same thing. Why should the guy pay anything? According to you. Making a gesture is not paying your way. Your money is still in your pocket, and his is not. Those are facts.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1615
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 12:20:27 PM

NewYorker, in cases in which the man asked me out - yes, I offered to split the bill.

As a side note: One thing to bear in mind is that there's a difference between asking someone if they'd like to go out VS asking to Take someone out. Those are distinctly different angles, although some will assume they're ~equal.

But if they were equal, that would mean every time a gal brought up the notion of going out 1st before I did, she's paying the whole thing. And if I believed that, I'd certainly get some dirty looks on several dates when the bill comes (me pushing the bill over to her, "Thanks for Taking Me out, Sally!"). :)

NG, please explain, why should the woman show appreciation instead of actually paying for herself? Why only the tip, why only a drink, being the lesser part of the bill?

I'm saying At Least that Should be the standard Default, although it's not there yet. Maybe in 15 years. Right now, I'd say the Default is the guy always pays, and the lady may offer to at least contribute out of politeness, but the guy declines out of "politeness." And if they have already started datING, the gal should contribute in some way -- whether it be buying him something at the store, treating him with tickets to a show she really wants to go to, or cooking something up at her place for an in-home date. YMMV on when that first begins.

But it is normal even right now on what I brought up -- just the tip, 1 round of drinks after dinner, that the lady insists on getting at least. Why ONLY that? Because it's better than not contributing anything, and stepping Outside the hardened stance of "I'm a lady, don't be a cheapskate. My company in the first handful of dates is worth you paying the whole bill. It's how things are, and how things are supposed to be, tradition, etc." But instead "I appreciate you taking me out, here, I Should at least contribute into this. This isn't 1974."
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 1616
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 12:43:58 PM

Men are our natural predators. They should do something to show their good inventions. Of course it doesn't always mean their intentions are good, but those that don't want to fulfill their obligation for a date they initiate do show their feelings about women and their intentions.

I just want to put a firm line in the sand about 'intentions' and 'predators' - guys that prey on women are always looking for the opportunity to do so, and a valuable tool at their disposal - at ANY predator's disposal - is BAIT. Setting up a situation that keeps their prey at ease - making them feel comfortable, less guarded. Paying for a date can be an act of chivalry or generosity, but it can just as easily be baiting - paying an admission fee into a situation the other definitely does not want. That transaction and the meaning behind it is TOTALLY based on the CHARACTER of the parties involved, not on the act itself.

Conversely, the way the transaction is accepted can be seen by the guy as an encouraging or DIScouraging sign. Paying does not automatically put anyone on good graces, because our impressions are formed by things much more complicated than a single payment - or, at least, they SHOULD be.

I will always advocate that being a well-behaved person should never be solely based on a single act or trait. People assuming so are taking shortcuts on their way to rushing into their happily-ever-after, which means that will rarely be the outcome.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 1617
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 12:48:42 PM

understood what you said. Its entitlement to not pay your way, but then you still think it's okay to make the gesture and not follow thru. If you want to claim you pay your way, and it's the right thing to do, you should be paying for yourself, always. You can't have it both ways, then claim others are showing entitlement when you do the same thing. Why should the guy pay anything? According to you. Making a gesture is not paying your way. Your money is still in your pocket, and his is not. Those are facts.


Quit trying to twist her words to make a point....you're not any good at it!!

What she, I and others are saying..we are comfortable with paying our share....
sometimes we offer and it is refused....
sometimes we offer and it is accepted...
sometimes a man says "I want to take you out" and we let them...
sometimes we say "I'd like to take you out" and we pay....

The whole point here is that in today's times.... women should not EXPECT to be treated to every meal by a man.
Women have fought hard for equality....and that should be reflected in all aspects of our lives....including dating.
We feel that to be considered an equal.....we should ACT like an equal.

Read men's responses here....sometimes the "gesture" is enough for them....
it shows him she respects his hard earned cash and that she doesn't feel "entitled" to free meals with every man she has dinner with

and you still have not answered my direct question to you.....What is the difference between offering to pay our share and fixing and paying for a dinner at your house?
One can only assume you don't have a logical answer since this has been asked of you 3 times now....
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 1618
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 1:32:28 PM

I understood what you said. Its entitlement to not pay your way, but then you still think it's okay to make the gesture and not follow thru.


I think the problem is that you don't understand the meaning behind the word, "entitlement". It's the motive behind the woman not paying her way that counts as entitlement, not the fact that she doesn't follow through. If she offers with the full intent of paying her share, and the man tells her "No, please... it's my treat", and she says "Okay, thank you". I'll get the tip.", that's not entitlement.

If she doesn't offer to pay her share because she thinks that's the man's role, it's entitlement.

Here is the definition of entitlement:

en·ti·tle·ment
inˈtīdlmənt,enˈtīdlmənt/Submit
noun
the fact of having a right to something.
"full entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered"
synonyms: right, prerogative, claim; More
the amount to which a person has a right.
"annual leave entitlement"
synonyms: right, prerogative, claim; More
the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
 BLONDE_ANGEL_1
Joined: 4/27/2018
Msg: 1619
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 1:32:29 PM
What if I go out to dinner w/ my husband & we decide to go DUTCH & I whip out a Restaurant dot com coupon? & it covers MY HALF?

And do we factor who drives & whose vehicle & the cost of gas?

And who should pay for the KY Jelly?

all these silly questions...

sometimes I think ppl should stay home, masturbate & get takeout or cook for themselves...
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 2:01:43 PM
I can see it happening once, and only once. We are at the restaurant, the waiter hands him the bill, he whips out his calculator. Your half of the bill, tip, the flowers I brought you, and because you had desert comes to.......?

LOL Not in this lifetime! If that's all I could find to date me I would just stay the hell home. No dumpster diving for this girl!
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 1621
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 2:40:16 PM
Who the heck said anything about always dividing EVERYTHING 50/50?
I thought this was a conversation about offering to pay for your share of the dinner
or offering the tip? If it's refused...it's not like I fight him for it.

Jesus, you wimmins are crazy. I've never dived in a dumpster in my life...wouldn't
even know how to go about it. Never went out with someone who whipped out a
calculator either...I guess they were all mathematically inclined.

I don't see how SOME women offering to pay affects how OTHER women date.
Why does that make us hos, desperate, and now dumpster divers?
And why are you guys getting so upset about it?
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1622
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 2:41:12 PM

If she offers with the full intent of paying her share, and the man tells her "No, please... it's my treat", and she says "Okay, thank you". I'll get the tip.", that's not entitlement.

I agree -- not just her offering, but She Feels that She Should pay roughly her share -- then no, there is no entitlement. Whether he got everything including the tip or not. However, I will say entitlement does Not necessarily imply special treatment or privileges. EX: I'm entitled to ownership of my house and car. I'm entitled to basic human rights. I'm entitled to common courtesy when walking into a public establishment. I'm not entitled to common courtesy when sneaking into the women's locker room.

I think what some people may be referring to (not necessarily NY) -- is that giving the "polite offer" alone doesn't cut one away from feeling entitled. Even if said lady is prepared for some guys to take them up on the offer, and prepared to follow-thru on a guy taking them up on it ("Big Mistake Bob! That's the last date you'll get out of me!"). Such faux offers, even if politely followed thru on when accepted -- is immature role-playing. In today's society, one would be silly to think everyone's on the same page with that game -- hence, it's not polite. Even if it's "half honest" (feeling half-entitled?).

What if I go out to dinner w/ my husband & we decide to go DUTCH & I whip out a Restaurant dot com coupon? & it covers MY HALF?

That's unnecessary, unless you guys were on some mission to budget each other to keep each other in check or something. Your money's his money, right? And you can whip out coupons obviously with a BF or husband without it being tacky. If you were going Dutch though, and whipped one out -- it'd cover your bill if you asked the server to split it into separate checks. It'd cover both of yours if it stayed on 1 bill.

I can see it happening once, and only once. We are at the restaurant, the waiter hands him the bill, he whips out his calculator. Your half of the bill, tip, the flowers I brought you, and because you had desert comes to.......?

Yeah lol, that's never going to happen. Would you only see it happening once and only once if the waiter put the bill next to the guy, and he said "Here, you can just give me $20," on a bill that was $42 before tip?
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 1623
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Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 2:43:39 PM

And why are you guys getting so upset about it?

because common sense and logic elude them...and it's easier to divert attention from their "entitlement" views....
 BLONDE_ANGEL_1
Joined: 4/27/2018
Msg: 1624
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 2:54:25 PM
"I don't see how SOME women offering to pay affects how OTHER women date.
Why does that make us hos, desperate, and now dumpster divers?
And why are you guys getting so upset about it?"

JUST SWITCH IT TO THIS:

I don't see how SOME women NOT offering to pay affects how OTHER women date.
Why does that make us dinner whores, entitled, princesses?
And why are you guys getting so upset about it?

YOU SAY TOMATO< I SAY TOMATOE
Paying for a date
Posted: 7/20/2018 3:09:10 PM

because common sense and logic elude them...and it's easier to divert attention from their "entitlement" views...

Still angry with me I see. I happen to have a ton of common sense and overall I'm quite logical. Still, no teenaged girl has been molested in my care, hmmm, imagine that. You bet your granny bloomers, I'm entitled to any opinion I like on this subject. You and a few others certainly feel entitled to your opinions. You all can yell, scream, jump up and down and stomp your feet, call me whatever. Guess what? still not changing my mind. I go out with a man, HE"S PAYING! That's RIGHT! I bet the sound of that is like nails on a chalkboard to the cheapskates.... Not only am I entitled to my opinions, I'm also entitled to whatever expectation I like In MY dating life. Guess what? my dating life works for me, I don't have a lack of dates. You don't like my views? sit on it and rotate, cause I don't care for yours either!
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