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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 426
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.Page 18 of 58    (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44)

HFX are you saying this man^^^^^^^^^said that Hitler didn't take away the right of a Jew to have a firearm? You said the word "myth" so just wanted to clarify if that is what you are saying.


The myth is referring to the fact that Hitler was not able to do what he did because of the gun laws in Germany.


The whole premise of "you do not want to happen to you what happened to them" is based on fear mongering and propaganda.


Everything is right there in that report, but it has many pages and I know how you guys hate stuff with lots of words, so be warned.
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 427
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/3/2015 7:07:41 PM
Jews were forbidden to own weapons or get a permit
 midnite_icecream
Joined: 12/27/2014
Msg: 428
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/3/2015 7:36:23 PM

Those accidents all involve failure to follow basic safety rules! That was a simple question, of course.
Here are the easy Eddie Eagle rules that ALL parents should share with their kids...whether they own guns or not:
IF YOU SEE A GUN:
* STOP!
* Don't Touch.
* Leave the Area.
* Tell an Adult.

Kids will be kids. Some will listen, others, you tell them something, they do the opposite. How do you propose to get this through to the mind of a 3 yo btw? If you advise storage under lock and key, how would you have immediate access to it if needed urgently.
The Walmart mother shot by her 2 yo, I believe, had a concealed weapon permit, and had the gun concealed in a compartment in her purse. Even if she had the bag on her person, you don't think a thief could grab her handbag off her(?).

The problem with the liberal mentality is that you think life should not involve any personal responsibility or
risk.

Not when the risk exceeds it's worth. Lets face it, a gun, unlike a car, unlike an aeroplane, is intended as a weapon. Yes, a knife, tomahawk, axe etc etc *could* be used as a weapon. But they don't have the efficiency of a gun..You don't hear about crazed axe-wielding madmen running about chopping up school kids - and lets hope we never do!! Yes hunters, farmers, sports shooters have guns. But what can be done about the rest. Instead of maintaining this unflinching pro-gun support, perhaps devote your resources (or more of it) to supporting your community or others in need, as well as lobbying your local jurisdictions to address the socio-economic problems exacerbating crime. Course it won't solve the problems overnight, or all of them. I'm agreeing with Rob that something is really foul about the NRA.. Same as and in cahoots with the power-tripping pollies.. I don't really know what hope there is for you guys up against these gun manics..to even stop research by the CDC (as somebody mentioned)..they don't have the wider public's interest at heart. I daresay they are cult leaders of a sect for gun worshippers. Then there's the 2nd Amendment Constitution you put up on a pedestal.
Ignoring whether enough measures are in place to reduce the risk of gun accidents and deaths is irresponsible.


When in doubt, simply refer to these words:

Wisely written by our brilliant Founding Fathers in our U.S.
Constitution - Amendment II:
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Yet I'm still in doubt. How is it a well-regulated militia when something as basic as registering firearms isn't necessary. It's an Oxy-moron. Like the above poster asked, what are the legal answers here.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 429
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 12:38:44 AM
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

This is more complex than it is given credit. It went through a few iterations before the founders could agree upon it. It is funny how we Americans like to act as though the founders were usually in monolithic agreement about everything.

This text causes me to ask a few questions that are difficult to answer: how does one reconcile "well regulated" with a "free state" and "shall not be infringed"? What level of government is doing the regulating? What exactly is a well regulated militia? And what regulation would constitute infringement and what would not? Doesn't regulation detract from freedom? Or does it help ensure it?

Does the 1986 ban on new machine guns constitute infringement? If not, why would a gun registry constitute infringement? Why wouldn't a gun registry constitute "well regulated"?
 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 430
view profile
History
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 1:14:59 AM
well flyguy..............lets start with free state........at that time......and up to the civil war..the states were entites onto them selves.............federal government played a much much smaller role...........the civil war was fought ,,,,,,,,,for the most part..not to free the slaves..........but to keep the federal government from taking control of individual states


as far as well regulated......at the time....it didnt mean a lot of regulations....rather it meant well supplied and in good working order..........example........a person who showed good judgment and sound thinking was said to have a "well regulated mind"
at the time.........the militia was every able bodied man between ages 17 and 45..............the state....not the federal government had the power to call them to action........each man was responsible to supply his own weapon and basic supplies

shall not be infringed means exactly that.........
 robaustralia
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 431
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 3:42:49 AM

GUN VIOLENCE ARCHIVE 2015 TOLL OF GUN VIOLENCE
Total Number of Incidents: 3,873
Number of Deaths1: 1,155
Number of Injuries1: 1,881
Number of Children (age 0-11) Killed/Injured1: 43
Number of Teens (age 12-17) Killed/Injured1: 176
Mass Shooting2: 21
Officer Involved Shooting2: 350
Home Invasion2: 206
Defensive Use2: 131
Accidental Shooting2: 182[/quote\

In four days another 119 people blown away in the Wild West and another 18 children killed/injured.

We will just ignore that though because it is our Constitutional right to "bear arms".

In the Wild West we don't care about another 119 bereaved families , because that is the price we are willing to pay because it is our "right to bear arms"

We don't care about 3yos pulling handguns out of their Mothers purses and shooting them to death, because that is the price we are willing to pay because we have the "right to bear arms"

I'm sure the Founding Fathers perfectly drafted the 2nd Amendment to make it perfectly acceptable for 3yos to shoot their Mother(Pfft!)

I'm sure the Founding Fathers also drafted the 2nd Amendment to include 3yos in their definition of a well organised militia (Pfft!)
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 432
view profile
History
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 3:52:12 AM
All this roaming from the core issue when the issue is the right of self defense,not fighting the military,not being an idiot and leaving a loaded Gun around children but being able to meet deadly force armed or unarmed with deadly force that will allow you to continue living.I have always wondered what it is about self defense that angers people so and why they have no real issue with a high body count from violent crime but when tragic accidents happen they go into overload....if I have no right to self defense the other rights mean nothing.
 StarClassic
Joined: 9/29/2014
Msg: 433
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 6:43:25 AM

the core issue when the issue is the right of self defense, not fighting the military,


You are mistaken there Strings.
Our founding fathers Original intent of the Second Amendment was for Free citizens to have the means to fight tyranny brought about by government overreach. Be it fed, state or local.
The Second Amendment is what gives Teeth to the Constitution and Bill of Rights and gives us the right, and means, to oppose tyranny.

To those who seem to think we would be fighting the entire military might of the United States.
I have no valid idea the numbers involved, and they may or may not be a majority, a vast number of our service members and their commanders take their oath very seriously. No way in hell would they take up arms against American citizens for a cause they felt unjust.
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 434
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 6:55:13 AM
String6...you have excellent observations.
Many seem to believe it is more "honorable" to be victimized than to take matters into ones own hands.

StarClassic...you are spot-on. I do believe String6 is actually in agreement with you.
The Second Amendment is what ensures our U.S. Constitution is upheld against tyranny.

It is amusing how liberal gungrabbers have now convinced themselves they are far smarter than our Founding Fathers George Washington, Samuel Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Hancock, James Madison, John Jay, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, and others...to decide what is best for our country.

Much of it is related to the spirit of patriotism that simply does not exist the same way in other cultures.
That is totally fine. They can live their lives their way and we can live our lives our American way.
 StarClassic
Joined: 9/29/2014
Msg: 435
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 7:24:30 AM
While I can, somewhat, understand those in government trying to strip me of the Second Amendment, I cannot wrap my head around why common free citizens would wish to do so also.

On 9/19/1980 I stood before God and witnesses and took my oath.
I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
and I, to this day, stand by that oath. It is not one to be taken lightly.
What the anti's fail to recognize is that I will also toe the line and support Their right free speech. Their right to worship as they see fit, or not to. Their right be tried by a jury of their peers,,, And that I will do so freely and to the price of death if need be.
Why, WHY do they insist on stripping me of the means to do so.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 436
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 12:31:48 PM
if the FF wanted the hoi polloi to stop corrupt government, why dilute their vote with the Electoral College? Why create a legislature designed to drown out the individual voice (OK, at the moment I can't remember Madison's term for it in the Federalist Papers)? There wouldn't be a need for musket if there was an ability for the hoi polloi to vote in its beliefs. then again, the FF created the Constitution in secret, throwing out the original government (ie, the Continental Congress and the Articles of Confederation that created it). they also licensed "privateers" in place of a real navy. its cheaper to get individuals to handle their own security.

If you were hoping to stop a government overthrow, you're a few centuries late. As for hoping your guns will save you from government now, they have these little things called drones? Already used 'em on American citizens in Africa? Tends to kill people already armed with Kalashinikovs and RPG's? Ask the Branch Davidians and what's his name at Ruby Ridge how well their guns saved them from government intervention.

As for your local skel, a gun works on the skel who looks at it. The skel who looks you in the eye...and knows you don't have what it takes to pull the trigger...he's the one who's gonna jump your bones like you're a cop in Fergenson. Better to go to college, work hard, get a good job, afford to live in a good neighborhood.

People worry about registering their guns b/c the government will know. then they broadcast over the Internet that they own guns. apparently, they don't worry about the government who snoops and records, just the one who hasn't in two centuries tried to take away their guns.
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 437
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 12:46:11 PM

Posted by GTOMustang:
"...If you were hoping to stop a government overthrow, you're a few centuries late.
As for hoping your guns will save you from government now, they have these little things called drones?..."

GTOMustang...what leads you to believe that Constitution-loving soldiers, airmen, sailors, and police would take up arms against their fellow loyal Americans if an unconstitutional and unlawful order was issued in tyrannical manner? Take a look at the oath written my StarClassic above. His view is characteristic of a pro-Constitution serviceman. Several of my relatives are currently active duty higher level officers. They would never even remotely dream of violating the Constitution and assisting a rogue and unlawful domestic action like you described.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 438
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 1:38:51 PM
that's a fair question. There is the infamous Combat Arms Survey allegedly offered May 10, 1994 to Marines at 29Palms, asking them allegedly for their opinion on US combat troops being used for drug enforcement, disaster relief, policing under UN leadership, and would they fire on US citizens if ordered to do so, following certain scenarios that may or may not occur.

Did the test happen? Was it an arbitrary thing? would troops be asked to take up arms against Americans they were told aren't loyal? When a drone strike was done on an American citizen in Africa, was there a trial to prove the citizen wasn't loyal? did Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning act out of their self-proclaimed loyalty to the Constitution?

I don't see the government massively turning on its constituents. Its been attempted before, like Operation Northwoods, and gets shot down quickly. Of course, there's always the chance some group can be labeled "terrorist" and targeted. But, if indeed there is a magic shield against the American military from taking up arms against fellow loyal Americans, then those fellow loyal Americans sure indeed don't need military rifles in their home. Why would they, the government isn't going to be a threat. Fellow loyal Americans only need bolt action hunting rifles and small caliber defense pistols.

Glad to see we agree that there is no threat from the government, and loyal, Constitional loving Americans sure don't need to worry about a tyranical government from claiming their weapons. So we can register what weapons we have, there's no fear of violating the Constitution.
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 439
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 2:08:30 PM

Posted by GTOMustang:
"But, if indeed there is a magic shield against the American military from taking up arms against fellow loyal Americans, then those fellow loyal Americans sure indeed don't need military rifles in their home. Why would they, the government isn't going to be a threat."

Thanks to the "teeth" provided by the Second Amendment, our military likely won't receive those orders from a tyrannical regime. They know the Second Amendment protects decent and law-abiding citizens of this country.

Posted by GTOMustang:
"So we can register what weapons we have, there's no fear of violating the Constitution."

Except that would be a violation of the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

For reference:

Wisely written by our brilliant Founding Fathers in our U.S. Constitution - Amendment II:
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 440
view profile
History
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 2:10:40 PM
Still honestly asking, still not trolling, and still waiting for an explanation of the legal reasons why an uninfringed right to bear arms is incomparable with registration. Anybody?
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 441
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 2:27:02 PM

Still honestly asking, still not trolling, and still waiting for an explanation of the legal reasons why an uninfringed right to bear arms is incomparable with registration. Anybody?


Because fear sells and facts are boring.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 442
view profile
History
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 3:14:32 PM
StarClassic,my point is that the immediate concern of most people who own guns is personal and family defense from the criminal element that takes innocent lives by the hundreds and thousands each year,a home invasion robbery occurred on the road I live on about 2 months ago,the thugs kicked in the door only to meet a hail of gunfire from the home owner...a glorious end to what could have been a tragedy for the innocent people in that home,no charges were filed and one of the thugs died.I am amazed at how some people seem to think crime is a myth and people being killed by criminals is a rare event....it might be worth mentioning that many people in addition to the military take an oath to defend the Constitution and yet they have never or almost never failed to obey any order they have been given...we will see how it goes.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 443
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 3:14:45 PM

notgorshkovagain:
Still honestly asking, still not trolling, and still waiting for an explanation of the legal reasons why an uninfringed right to bear arms is incomparable with registration. Anybody?


For what purpose, if not at some later point in time, Confiscation?

For the most part almost every Firearm used in a Crime can be Traced under the Current System.... It is just a little more Work for the Government..... It's no Secret the Anti-Gun People's endgame is Confiscation.......

Di-Fi said it Herself..... In 1994, if She could have got the Votes, She would tell Every Gun Owner to Turn them in....
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 444
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 3:37:44 PM

Posted by NotGorshkovAgain:
"Still honestly asking, still not trolling, and still waiting for an explanation of the legal reasons why an uninfringed right to bear arms is incomparable with registration. Anybody?"

What you seek is likely contained within District of Columbia v. Heller (2008)
A case for the Fifth Amendment -- U.S. v Haynes (1968) -- also had gun registration / confiscation implications.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 445
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 4:39:51 PM

What you seek is likely contained within District of Columbia v. Heller (2008)

Well... at least you should be commended for admitting that... you don't really know what you are talking about... If you did... then you would know that DC v Heller does NOT provide a legal rationale for why registration would be an infringement... In fact... the court upheld the licensing component of the law...

A case for the Fifth Amendment -- U.S. v Haynes (1968) -- also had gun registration / confiscation implications.

Yes it did... It made clear that the registration of lawfully owned firearms is NOT an infringement... but was... in fact... constitutionally valid...

In other words... there is no incompatibility between registration... and the Second Amendment...

For what purpose, if not at some later point in time, Confiscation?

Not according to the Supreme Court... They have asserted that registration and licensing is compatible with the Second Amendment... and non-infringing...
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 446
view profile
History
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 4:47:11 PM

What you seek is likely contained within District of Columbia v. Heller (2008)
A case for the Fifth Amendment -- U.S. v Haynes (1968) -- also had gun registration / confiscation implications.

Thanks - both cases were helpful. I think you lot down there are more than a wee bit out to lunch when it comes to firearms - especially handguns - but at least now I have a better understanding of why it is the way it is, legally.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 447
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 5:22:19 PM
Gun registration would be a regulation, and of course, its supposed to be a "well-regulated militia" :) We register cars, even though we would likely need them to escape a tyranical government. and if a tyranical government can't convince the military to attack "real Americans", apparently only the disloyal have to fear their government's military. Like the 9/11 terrorists Ashcroft couldn't get gun registry information on.

An armed populace wasn't the FF's "check and balance" against a tyranical government. The balance they designed in, of course, is three equal but separate branches. Two could get co-opted, but a Supreme Court that has tenure and doesn't get voted in, a Legislative Branch that can investigate and veto, and an Exectutive that can veto, allows for any tyranical branch or two to get over-ruled. Its why American voters instinctively "split the ticket".

the FF's first reason for throwing out the decentralized government of the Articles of Confederation, was because they couldn't raise enough tax money to create a viable standing army. now, of course, we have one, and the FF designed the Constitution to be fluid and changeable.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 448
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 6:48:21 PM
On a side note I visited my daughter and son in law this past weekend.

They both work for the sheriff's dept. where the 5 homocides occured in Ga. and live about 5 miles from that residence.

There's more to this than has been made public, it's not just a random shooting as in someone just "going off".

All were shot except one, the 16 yr old girl. She suffered a sadistic perverted death.

He had bought his handgun at a pawn shop after passing the background check. He apparently had no prior CH of any significance.

Definitely premeditated and I'm sure they will go for the death penalty.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 449
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 7:06:12 PM

gtomustang:
Gun registration would be a regulation, and of course, its supposed to be a "well-regulated militia"


Your use of the term 'Well Regulated' is in the 20th Century use of it...... It meant something different for the Century before & after the BOR was written...... Nice Try, but a Swing & a Miss....... Though, Orwell & His Book 1984 thanks you for Playing.........

See here.....
http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm


The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:

1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."

1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."

1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."

1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."

1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."

1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 450
Armed pizza robber gets extra topping.
Posted: 2/4/2015 8:03:37 PM

Posted by Behind-Blue-Eyes_53:
"It referred to the property of something being in proper working order.
Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected."

Exactly correct and that correlates precisely with what every Constitutional scholar reports as well.
One could be a well regulated businessman, own a well regulated iron forge, or possess a well regulated horse & carriage.
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