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 chinook1111
Joined: 4/1/2016
Msg: 326
Freedom of Speech?Page 14 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
White people in the country illegally are small potatoes.

I agree completely with what Dee is saying above.

You also have to consider just how much do the hordes of newly trained (oversupply) drag down the salaries for various tech positions.....business can claim a shortage of talent for just that reason.

Up here we saw hundreds working for oilsands contractors laid off due to shortage of work only to be immediately replaced by Balkan state workers.

Are Americans going to overpopulate till it resembles the Bengal Delta?

People talk about ruining the environment.Endless growth cannot continue forever.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 327
view profile
History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 7:32:49 AM
Message 334 ...
But you all seem ok with with semi indentured and barely paid workers in the USA.
I generally do not waste my time indulging your remarks because they don't appear to be thought out and generally make no sense. Don't you ever get tired of accusing people of writing things they have never wrote?

Also, most of your comments appear to be nothing more than admonishing "the liberal crowd" with put-downs ... no doubt because the dipper crowd is always so appropriate?

As long as they are not American.
Actually, I am not "ok" with ANY worker (no matter where they are from or what they are doing) being underpaid. Where the hell did you come up with that?


Seems strange from a liberal crowd.
You're writing in riddles ... who in this so-called "liberal crowd" is promoting that workers be paid less ... be "semi-indentured"? It's generally the "dipper crowd" that has a problem paying even minimum wage.


Also seems odd coming from those nice-speech-at-the-EU-drive-away-in-my-limousine liberals in europe.
I have no clue what that is ... maybe you could clarify that riddle for us.


First, "Migrant worker" is its own category."
It is?


As far as other positions, I know people who had hotels jobs that don't anymore. Cleaning and otherwise. I met cane pickers who don't have that job anymore, after generations.
You can easily find construction workers who were displaced by illegals ( and people on road crews)
My neighbors had a painting and cleaning business. His competition hired illegals, paid them little and undercut him. . An American just repaired my roof. He did talk about being slowly put out of business by other roofers who hire illegals and pay them very little.
If those people know for certain that the business owners (in competition with them) are hiring illegals, they have every reason to report them. Why aren't they doing their civic duty?


Also, you all gleam over the engineers, IT professionals and others who lost or can't get jobs due to the influx.
People are "gleaming" about others losing jobs? What world do you live in?


You all also ignore the fact that many are on the welfare system.
Then report them. You can't get welfare without a proper ID and home address. If they are renting, it's the responsibility of the landlord to verify the ID of any person they rent to ... anyone who is occupying the rental unit. When you apply for Welfare, you have to provide proof of the roof over your head ... show a lease or some sort of legal agreement that you are legally living at the address you provide.


Sure, there are Americans doing the same. But why bring in more?
That's a good question for the American government ... refugees are allowed to migrate to the US in unlimited numbers. People who are trained and are willing to work and support their families are limited.


The USA is not responsible for the world. If you want to send them money or food or clothing or you want to go there and build them houses in whatever country they are from, go ahead. That would be nice and special.
You're right ... I've been saying that for years.


I would focus on the employers. Fine them, take their businesses away if they keep it up. All would rise.
Take it one step further ... reward employers who are not breaking the law and can prove that they are not breaking the law.


Why, if your kids need to eat and live, would you bring more into your house that would strain the feeding, clothing and shelter of your kids when it is UNNECESSARY? "Because it is nice" does not help your kids.
How about we take that another step further ... why do we give so much away to thriving countries when "46.7 million people (15 percent) were in poverty, including 15.5 million (21 percent) children under the age of 18. 48.1 million Americans lived in food-insecure households, including more than 15 million children"?

Message 335 ...
And don't even get me started on those Asian nail salons where all you women go to get ur dogs straighten out....
Those are pretty much considered legal refugees ... many of them from Vietnam or other countries in Southeast Asia that we illegally used to further out cause in Vietnam. I work for one of those legal refugees ... from Laos.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 328
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History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 8:41:22 AM
Oh Dee, nobody said anything like that, you just like to make stuff up and then point fingers and project. And I know, you have trainloads of them! Busloads! Shiploads! Heck everyone you know or are related to has been or knows someone who has been .... and so it's true, it has to be true! And yes all of us liberals are whatever ridiculous item you have today, because well, you know everything & everybody. LOL It's truly hilarious.
 oj126
Joined: 3/28/2016
Msg: 329
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 9:14:02 AM
Oh Dayna , why do the racially aware bother you so much? You are truly "Hillaryius".
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 330
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 10:30:20 AM

The USA is not responsible for the world. If you want to send them money or food or clothing or you want to go there and build them houses in whatever country they are from, go ahead. That would be nice and special.


Yet the US has created the very environments in which dictators have propagated, where only an elite are rich and the people have been kept poor so they can keep picking fruits, digging minerals, cutting cane. When people in those countries have rebelled against political or economical colonialism the US has organized coups to depose those that challenge US hegemony. And in the end WE (the America people) pay the price to keep the rich remain super rich.

So I believe that the USA should be responsible for the messes that it has created. If Saddam Hussein was not deposed there would not be an ISIS. If we had not armed the Afghans there would not have been an Alcaida. If we had not deposed the prime minister of Iran, there would have not been a hostage crisis or even radical Islam. WE created radical Islam by only supporting Right wing, secular dictators that oppressed and tortured their own people, that had leaned those tactics in the University of the Americas in Georgia.

Unfortunately the ultimate price is paid by America blood, and that blood belongs to the poor, to minorities, to whites without the economic power to get a deferment back during the Vietnam war, or to get out of poverty today.
 Llove2laughtoo
Joined: 1/11/2016
Msg: 331
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 11:09:56 AM

Msg: 341
Yet the US has created the very environments in which dictators have propagated, where only an elite are rich and the people have been kept poor so they can keep picking fruits, digging minerals, cutting cane. When people in those countries have rebelled against political or economical colonialism the US has organized coups to depose those that challenge US hegemony. And in the end WE (the America people) pay the price to keep the rich remain super rich.

So I believe that the USA should be responsible for the messes that it has created. If Saddam Hussein was not deposed there would not be an ISIS. If we had not armed the Afghans there would not have been an Alcaida. If we had not deposed the prime minister of Iran, there would have not been a hostage crisis or even radical Islam. WE created radical Islam by only supporting Right wing, secular dictators that oppressed and tortured their own people, that had leaned those tactics in the University of the Americas in Georgia.

Unfortunately the ultimate price is paid by America blood, and that blood belongs to the poor, to minorities, to whites without the economic power to get a deferment back during the Vietnam war, or to get out of poverty today.


Watch out, you'll be accused of sedition and of intentionally spreading conspiracies. Our government never does anything wrong when dealing with foreign countries and its citizens.
 lilydreams
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 332
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 11:33:19 AM
You can look to corporate greed. Take WalMart and the Walmartian family - making millions/billions. They have put many US companies out of work by their "make it cheaper, make it cheaper...oops, you're bankrupt so I'll get it from China or Taiwan or India". WTF. And the Walmartian family is only one greedy American as apple pie, republican, bible thumping conglomerate. Dee, go talk to the companies that operate like WalMart.

You also have generations of good old Americans that are on welfare. Momma was, all 8 kids are too. Uneducated and untrained. Sad.

But lets blame the Mexicans.
 villabolos
Joined: 7/24/2015
Msg: 333
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 12:05:06 PM
No doubt there are problems already in this country.
As has been said many times over, we don't need to be importing anymore.

How many innocent people have to lose their lives in the name of diversity and tolerance??
How much debt should the U.S. incur propping up illegal and legal immigrants??
How much debt should the county have to incur all in the name of foreign aid??
How many kids are going to get hooked on drugs all so we can say we our tolerant and don't believe in borders??
How many different languages should voting ballots be printed in....all so people don't have to adapt to the customs of this country??
What percentage of prisoners in our federal prisons are illegal aliens??
How much money should the U.S. have to spend on these things and why aren't the countries who are sending their citizens here being held financially responsible??
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 334
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Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 12:16:57 PM
Is there someone here who has been saying to truck in loads of criminals from other countries?
 Onyx49
Joined: 3/6/2016
Msg: 335
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 1:45:29 PM
MSG-343
Why is it that some dim-witted Canadian think they have no issues to address in their own hell hole, therefore they think we need their stupid...cure all, recommendations...we don't so stuff it...and that goes for you bedbug tote'n...backpack'n Euro's too...foreigner's really don't have a life....


EDIT-Below

So What...of course they are rich, you and others shop there because the have quality products at low prices.
Even those that work there part time, can still say they have a job...most of those jobs aren't a career position...but one could push themselves and make it one.

Should I feel bad for those people working part time, because they can't spend $200.00 bucks a week on cigars ?
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 336
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 1:51:49 PM

You can look to corporate greed. Take WalMart and the Walmartian family - making millions/billions. They have put many US companies out of work by their "make it cheaper, make it cheaper...oops, you're bankrupt so I'll get it from China or Taiwan or India". WTF. And the Walmartian family is only one greedy American as apple pie, republican, bible thumping conglomerate. Dee, go talk to the companies that operate like WalMart.


Take this thought even further. Walmart keeps people in part time, so they don't have to pay for their insurance. So many of Walmart people make minimum wage and have to subsidize their income with food stamps and Madicaid. That means that the American Tax payer is subsidizing Walmart on the Millions and Millions of dollars. While at least 5 of the Walmart family people are among the top 5 richest people in the world. At your expense.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 337
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 1:55:54 PM
Obeseboy49 back to his usual charming self..lol , secretly has the hots for Lily...the thread started about an event in Saskatchewan Canada.
 Onyx49
Joined: 3/6/2016
Msg: 338
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 2:02:38 PM
Choke on shtz toothless fairy...use some mouthwash when you finish smoking a guys sausage I can smell ur breath thru the screen...yuck...and for pissing out loud...pop that pimple on your nose...disguising....
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 339
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 5:11:09 PM
You all sure responded to stuff I "made up" and you "can't understand." LOL!

Liberals want "income equality" and "a living wage" except for illegals when you insist that they have jobs paying them little or nothing.
That is saying that it is OK for them to work for little or nothing. One of you essentially admitted to be "too good" for the job.
(Actually, Cotter, in between the snark, it appears that you agree with most of what I said)

If any of you read or saw The Help, did you notice that is exactly how people treat the illegals they hire for those jobs now?

If that is not the case, please explain. Why is it OK for them to make less so that you can have cheaper food?


And no, I have not limited what I posted to Mexicans. See comment about engineers, IT workers etc.

Again, the employers need to be fined, etc ( which I said earlier)

Let the prevarications continue.. .

"""you know everything & everybody" To paraphrase what Holly Hunter said in Broadcast News, "It's awful."

Maybe I am in the wrong room.

_____________________
::::So I believe that the USA should be responsible for the messes that it has created. If Saddam Hussein was not deposed there would not be an ISIS."""

I agree. But I did not send troops there. And troops who refused were court martialed.
If my brother robs you of your TV, I don't owe you a Sony or the right to move into my house to watch my TV.

If I am moved, I may buy you one for YOUR house.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 340
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History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 5:49:23 PM
And there it is again, the hyperbole that so one ever even said.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 341
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/27/2016 5:53:31 PM
Jerome's Law! Jerrrrrroommme's Laaaaaaaawwwwww!!
Isn't that the commonly used non sequitur, that nobody understands, ever? Some secret code known only to the user.
 Onyx49
Joined: 3/6/2016
Msg: 342
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/28/2016 6:01:43 AM
MSG-350

Dee...I'm sick of the way you keep throwing the word..." Liberal"...out there to condemn and separate yourself from others...what da fcck....you don't actually think you're part of the League of the High and Mighty, do you ?
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 343
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History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/28/2016 7:03:18 AM

There's no ethical obligation that every job position be a living wage one.

I don't know about the rest of the conversation, or the other facts in question...but I think that this particular statement needs a second look - for trying to pivot and base so much of a stance upon it.

'There's no ethical obligation that a job position be of a living wage. Or that every job position be so.'

That's a bit of a fuzzy, ambiguous, subjective way to be making a concrete, absolute, conclusive declaration. You'd be better off talking about what's legally required or not. But not ethically required in the way that's being done here.

Imagine that there were no laws at all requiring any kind of wage level, and every job was therefore legally for $1 per hour...then one could point out that there is no legal obligation to pay a certain amount. But it's a different thing altogether to say something like there is no "ethical" obligation to pay more than $1 per hour. To invoke this concept with this usage of the word "ethical" is to use some kind of rhetorical cop-out, and I think that this hypothetical reveals it. Using this example, it's more obvious that in fact there is an ethical obligation to pay more than $1 an hour...and for someone to say that there isn't, might be talking out of their arse.

There is a whole lot about society and how we live which isn't explicitly elucidated in formal law, but is part of our reality nonetheless. Indeed, one of the big differences between people and which causes much strife and injustice...is what kinds of 'ethics' that each person chooses to live by or not. At any given time, there is an ethical zeitgeist existent among us which is often there regardless of what's in law books. It's an evolving understanding and often unspoken common agreement of how we should all live together. Through 'common sense', most people usually know what is fair and just, and you always have people who choose to not be fair and just in various ways literally because they can get away with it. Seldom can everyone be expected to always be ethically perfect, but that's beside the point. There are always differences in ethical zeitgeists between people which are not from a tendency or attempt to be unjust or unfair, but that's also beside the point. Otherwise, you can often recognize the 'bad' people by the fact that they make some kind of statement to the effect of "they don't have to do such-and-such" at those moments when they're disregarding a more commonly understood correct behavior...and screwing someone over.

So, back to the 'obligation to make every job position a living wage one'...in the ethical light that it's being framed within here.

Many jobs are not according to wage, and are not under the umbrella of an employer in the same way that's being discussed as with a place like WalMart. For example, a meteorite hunter hikes out into a field to recover meteorite fragments to sell to a museum or science lab, and gets monetary compensation one time and one time only. And the level of that monetary compensation is according to factors and haggling and market values which don't need to be discussed here, and are irrelevant.

But if we talk about the kind of job position as we're talking about with a place like WalMart, then we are talking about a wholly different situation (And to preempt future cop-outs, we're also not talking here about people intentionally seeking part-time). It is a position, under an employer, within a company, occupied on a regular ongoing basis. People don't work for free. They work in order to get compensated. And they work to get compensated in order to make a living. The whole point is to make a living. It's a very retarded oxymoron to say that this kind of job is not understood and expected to intrinsically be a 'living wage' one. And that's another way in which this can be looked at - what's intrinsic of this kind of job? Intrinsic of any job is to get paid for that job...intrinsic of this kind of job is that one be able to make a living from it (no matter how minimal that living is). And to claim that there is not this ethical obligation, is to disregard the most concrete and fundamental definitive of that job...to pretend that the whole reason for it magically disappeared suddenly. So if it is intentionally modified to benefit the company at the expense of the employee...in a way which undermines a fundamental intrinsic of the job...then that is possibly the easiest way to declare something to be unethical.

We are not talking about jobs which cannot be made into full-time; I am not talking about situations where part-time positions are all that can be created. When full-time positions can be managed in large numbers, yet they aren't for the aforementioned reasons, that's what we're talking about here. Moreover, it would only be a further cop-out to mention the option of getting a 2nd and 3rd job to make up the difference - We all know how impossible it is to live that way, perpetually going from a 1st job to a 2nd job, and especially for those who even after those 2 or 3 jobs are still barely "making a living". And it makes no sense for 3 major employers to all share the same workers on a part-time basis running back and forth, instead of each one just having fewer of them but for full-time...unless you're trying to modify things to benefit the company at the expense of the employee in a way which is very debilitating for that employee.

So, if we want to talk about what's ethical, unless a person is being dishonest...which is what unethical people often do...then there indeed is an "ethical obligation" precisely along these lines.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 344
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/28/2016 11:39:18 AM
The people that I have met who hold the position that I am addressing describe themselves as liberals. They don't view it as a condemnation.

If there is another word, thanks for the heads up.

Are you saying that liberal is not "high and mighty?" Where is it in the hierarchy?
 crook_catcher
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 345
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/28/2016 12:03:30 PM

Dee...I'm sick of the way you keep throwing the word..." Liberal"...out there


As opposed to faggot, faggot azz, whore, bytch and gay sexual innuendos and then telling posters to STFU. That's got to be the most hypocritical statement ever made here you homophobic, obnoxious pos.


to condemn and separate yourself from others...what da fcck....you don't actually think you're part of the League of the High and Mighty, do you ?


It should be obvious you intellectual sloth, as to what league she doesn't want to be associated with. So why don't you take your own advice and STFU.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 346
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History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/28/2016 12:11:55 PM
Message 357 ..
Are you saying that liberal is not "high and mighty?"
Dee ... no one can knows who you could be speaking of when you speak of "the people you have met who hold the position that you are addressing and describe themselves as liberals" ... but sadly, it's been my experience that the "republican dippers" are quite judgmental people.

Here's an example ... I'm sitting in a room with a friend (my dance partner at the time) who is Catholic and republican ... with a movie on the TV. He's watching the movie much more intently than I am as I'm sitting there working on nursing notes and not paying too close attention to the actual movie ... but just enough to get the plot and all of a sudden he attacks me verbally! I'm not sure what I did, so I look up from my notes and ask him what he's talking about.

He tells me the girl in the movie is trying to decide whether or not to have an abortion because she has discovered she is pregnant and really doesn't want to marry the father. He then tells me that since I'm a democrat, (your term is "liberal"?) that I probably would advise the girl not to marry the father of her child and to get an abortion since "democrats want all unwed mothers to have abortions and also want the public to pay for it". The whole time, he was sneering at me and believe me, the tone he was using was not friendly either.

Just an FYI ... I have never promoted "abortion" as a means of birth control nor have I ever advised any woman to ever get an abortion, but since I'm a "democrat", that's what I do.

IMO .. I would say that in fact, it was the "republican" who was playing the role of "high and mighty".


Where is "it" in the hierarchy?
By "it" ... are you asking about "liberal"? If so then I would say (based on my experience) "liberal" pretty much ranks down with "the scum of the earth". That's pretty much the way I've been treated by most republicans ... even when they don't know for certain that I am a democrat.

I got an email not long ago from someone here on POF who wanted me to know that he thought he might be interested in meeting me but didn't think we'd get along too well because he's "pro-2nd amendment". (That comes across as "high and mighty" to me ... for certain quite judgmental.)

I wrote back and thanked him for the heads up and let him know that I know how to shoot (was on the OSU pistol team earlier in my life) and that I used to own a gun and will probably buy one again.

So now I'm getting the impression that "republicans" just assume that all democrats are "anti-2nd amendment". Is that true?
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 347
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History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/28/2016 5:20:24 PM
You might also ask the ranter, just how is the public paying for this (character in a movie no less) abortion.

I'm also pro gun ownership for those who are not criminals or violent. It's just like the BS we keep getting from a few rabid far right people here, that it's Trump or we are Hillary lovers, you know not just we might vote for her, we might not, but Hillary lovers and people who can't understand corruption or criminal behavior. It would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculously lame.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 348
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/28/2016 5:43:46 PM
Some great "friends" you seem to have, cotter. What would an enemy say?
 Onyx49
Joined: 3/6/2016
Msg: 349
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 4/28/2016 6:33:14 PM
MSG-357

I made my point pretty clear...continue to be dismissive...seek further evaluation...pray about it...write a poem...whatever necessary to keep you at the table with the right people...
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 350
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 5/9/2016 1:15:56 PM
Just wondering what you feminists think about transgenders using title 9?

I resent them using comparison to 60s civil rights. Opposites like Bill Maher and Ann Coulter even agree that comparison is ridiculous.

So kill me and call me names. Whatever.

Hard to believe that the Justice Department is bullying universities to give mostly white men more "rights " (interested in any stats showing that white men are not the majority of transgenders)

A lot of the funding that they want to take away will hurt women and minorities. LOL!

It is hilarious that women don't realize that they are being duped and that they are using two brown women to accomplish that. Ha!

Terribly funny, actually.

_------------------

I see the person below has nothing so resorted to ad hominem.........

I get that.

When all else fails ....

+psst. This is a discussion board. People present and discuss subjects. If you raise duck hunting and I write a response that I am for it, it doesn't meanthat I have a chip on my shoulder about ducks, see?
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