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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Freedom of Speech?      Home login  
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 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 26
Freedom of Speech?Page 2 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
@ncz
Read the history of Constantinople and learn something.They haven't changed their spots.
@drinks
Did you get it up the bum from a priest or something?
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 27
view profile
History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/28/2015 1:02:20 AM
Islamists are right to be concerned at the effect of satire and demystification on their power base in the long-term. Laughing at authority and questioning assumptions of sanctity are vital early steps along the road to emancipation.

The consoling irony for the families of their victims is that the more death and destruction they deal out in the face of intellectual ridicule, the faster their supposedly moral authority is undermined in the eyes of their children.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g0nzgLfdjI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charlie_Hebdo_Tout_est_pardonn%C3%A9.jpg
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 28
view profile
History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/28/2015 6:35:39 PM
Message 1 ...
A group of Saskatoon Muslims say insults to religion are not freedom of expression and should be considered hate speech.
----------------
The airport's that way. Hop on a plane and go back too where you came from. There your religion won't be blasphemed though your free speech will be limited to following the mantra of whatever regime is in power. Unfortunately I'm Canadian so eventually some politically correct fool may take up their cause.
Aren't they entitled to their opinion whether we agree or not?

I don't necessarily consider such insults as hate speech, but it occurs to me that when I express my disgust over the Zionists, I'm often accused of "hate speech". So where do we draw the line? Is it "hate speech" when we insult religion and not when we insult a political movement? What about the so-called heads of government that are theologically based? Is it "hate speech" to criticize their governments or is it an insult to their religion?

Message 4 ...
I don't believe the cartoons are needed.
They don't do much for me and I could very easily get along fine without any religious cartoons of any kind. Besides, it's unfair to make cartoons about others' gods because they have nothing to compare it with. "Numbers" 9in the bible) describes god as a pillar of cloud and pillar of fire. That sounds like a space ship taking off.

Not very much leeway if you want to make jokes about Jewish behavior.
Well yeah ... but only because they start yelling "anti-Semitic" if people make fun of them ... ... I mean who'd ever figure that making fun of "Jewish behavior" is justified?

Oh wait ... there is documented "Jewish behavior" where it appears there may be a way to make any non-Jew an "untermensch" and not entitled to the same democracy the jews experience. Actually, that's been going on for a long time and it sounds like they just want to make it official.

As a teenager, I spoke with people who had lived it ... they lived in an area that was predominantly Jewish and they were not Jewish. They were not treated fairly ... could not get building permits and were therefore not allowed to buy any kind of building supplies. Sooo ... for them, it was not in any way a "democracy" even though that's the way it was passed off to the rest of the world.

Oh dear ... now I'm gonna get accused of being "anti-Semitic" because I know those people and found the following article.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.626617
'Jewish nation-state' bill sets out to establish democracy for Jews only
The Jewish character of Israel supersedes its democratic character. The Jewishness of the state is manifest in discrimination against Arabs, and its democracy is none other than a regime that lets the majority do anything it wants and exploits the minority.
Sigh.

Message 15 ...
... it reveals the drive they have to enslave the infidels.
That's not the only way a person can interpret that. How can a person be an "infidel" if they are "non-religious"? Doesn't that make a person "neutral"?

I am an Atheist and have experienced people who treat me like some sort of outcast because I don't want to pray at company or club celebrations ... and I won't go along with asking someone's "sky wizard" to guide me in making decisions for the club or company. I really don't see why we have to pray at company meetings or celebrations.

If you don't believe in a "sky wizard", should you have to pray with the ones who do believe? Do those people have a right to treat me as an outcast just because I don't believe in a "sky wizard"? What if I believe in a different "sky wizard" than they do? Should they have a right to treat me badly because of it?

Message 20 ...
Radical Islamists have just made up that BS to further spread their message of hate against their perceived enemy.The Western world.
Well I live in the "western world" and really don't understand the need to make fun of others' religions or for that matter, the lack there of.

I don't like the way the "X-tians" force their religion on me. And just by the way ... no Muslim has ever done that to me. No Muslim has ever come knocking on my door and blabbed on and on about trying to "save" me or convert me to join their church. No Muslim has ever asked that we pray at company meetings or celebrations.

And no community that I have ever lived in has gone out of their way to keep me from improving my home or forbidden me from buying products that I could eventually use to improve my home just because I don't practice the same religion as they do. That''s just outright hateful and despicable.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 29
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/28/2015 7:19:12 PM

cotter:
How can a person be an "infidel" if they are "non-religious"? Doesn't that make a person "neutral"?

Only if one wants to change the Standard Definition of the Word Infidel....


I am an Atheist and have experienced people who treat me like some sort of outcast because I don't want to pray at company or club celebrations ... and I won't go along with asking someone's "sky wizard" to guide me in making decisions for the club or company. I really don't see why we have to pray at company meetings or celebrations.

If you don't believe in a "sky wizard", should you have to pray with the ones who do believe? Do those people have a right to treat me as an outcast just because I don't believe in a "sky wizard"? What if I believe in a different "sky wizard" than they do? Should they have a right to treat me badly because of it?


Let Me take a WAG here, When this comes up You Strongly disagree with those People... You loudly Protest against them & their desire to Pray about it....



Well I live in the "western world" and really don't understand the need to make fun of others' religions or for that matter, the lack there of.


You only don't understand when others make Fun of Your Atheism....... You're perfectly Fine Referring to their 'God' as a 'Sky Wizard'.... You're sure Okie Dokie making Fun of Their Religion..... Proof is Right Here in Your Own Words......

I was raised as a Christian, but I'm not a Practicing Christian...... The only Times I've been in a Church in the last 35 years was for a Wedding or Funeral....... If I'm in a Group that wants to Pray about something.. I do nothing, their Prayer doesn't Hurt or Help Me.... I would Bet You make a Big Stink when this comes up & You're around......

Sure sounds like a Case of "The Lady Doth Protest too Much, Methinks"........
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 30
view profile
History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/28/2015 7:34:05 PM
To me, the ability to both love, and hate are each wonderful, interesting and totally human experiences...

To be able to relate to others how our emotions make us feel and also affect out intellect is priceless. Also priceless is being able to read everyone elses [at least as applies to this forum readerships] opinions and feelings. And, intellectual renderings on so many topics. It's amazing and humbling at once. At least, to me it is.

But, freedom of speech does'nt always mean you need to use that freedom. Sometimes our ability to excersise our freedoms exceeds our wisdom regarding our need to do so.
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 31
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/28/2015 7:37:07 PM
"You only don't understand when others make Fun of Your Atheism....... You're perfectly Fine Referring to their 'God' as a 'Sky Wizard'.... You're sure Okie Dokie making Fun of Their Religion..... Proof is Right Here in Your Own Words......"

^^^^^^^Behind Blue Eyes, replying to msg 29

Plus 10000!!

When I read this poster being all butt hurt, yet mocking other people's beliefs as "sky wizard", was great to see Behind call them on it! That poster is an atheist, I could care less what they don't believe in. But for those who believe in God, that is great!!
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 32
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/28/2015 7:38:31 PM
@cotter
You must be talking about Israel or the west bank for them to be denied a building permit.Why build a structure if its going to be bulldozed?I couldn't get served in a Jewish deli once but I just went somewhere else.:)

Anyhoo,Jewish people don't have large families.They need a Jewish state because of the fear of the past.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 33
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/28/2015 7:53:02 PM
Doremi, good post. Sometimes we should just shut the hell up.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 34
view profile
History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/28/2015 7:59:09 PM
Believing in god is great. Not believing in God is pretty cool too. Figuring out what exactly to believe or not believe in ... A pearl of peerless price. Being able to express anything you want or nothing at all, and also having the ability to believe or disbelieve anything anyone else writes here.... Welll, that's freedom .... Being able to talk freely about all of this is also a product of that very freedom. At least, IMHO.
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 35
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 3:59:26 AM

You only don't understand when others make Fun of Your Atheism....... You're perfectly Fine Referring to their 'God' as a 'Sky Wizard'.... You're sure Okie Dokie making Fun of Their Religion..... Proof is Right Here in Your Own Words......


If that offends you then take a look at this:

Steve Hughes... Offended?
7:48 (skip to ~3:35 for relevant (part)
TheVoxRox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs


If you are just one of those "politically correct" people we keep hearing about maybe, you should just skip it and keep pretending that you are oppressed.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 36
view profile
History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 4:52:53 AM
Yes, the video link I posted above also covers offense-taking from ~2:35.
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 37
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 8:28:32 AM
"If you are just one of those "politically correct" people we keep hearing about maybe, you should just skip it and keep pretending that you are oppressed."

^^^^^^^^^HFX

Hopefully msg 29 understands that, although the liberal political correctness is getting ridiculous
 nocrapzone
Joined: 1/10/2015
Msg: 38
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 8:35:08 AM


I don't like the way the "X-tians" force their religion on me. And just by the way ... no Muslim has ever done that to me. No Muslim has ever come knocking on my door and blabbed on and on about trying to "save" me or convert me to join their church. No Muslim has ever asked that we pray at company meetings or celebrations.


wow, right..because you live in Ohio where Muslims are a minority and the federal & state law protects you

maybe try living in Afghanistan Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, or Iran, amongst other "Muslim" countries and find out whether your beloved Muslims never "try to force their religion on others"

they are so much better than Christians right? including the Taliban who kill people who challenge their twisted belles, murder girls for going to school?

Boko Harum who sees it as the Allah-given right to kidnap, rape, use & murder little girls?


give your head a shake, or pry it out of your butt
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 39
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 8:40:45 AM

Hopefully msg 29 understands that, although the liberal political correctness is getting ridiculous


Amen to that, just look what those poor christians have to deal with, currently only 7 states have laws preventing atheists from running for office.



Arkansas, Article 19, Section 1:
No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court.

Maryland, Article 37:
That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.

Mississippi, Article 14, Section 265:
No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.

North Carolina, Article 6, Section 8
The following persons shall be disqualified for office: Any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.

South Carolina, Article 17, Section 4:
No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution.

Tennessee, Article 9, Section 2:
No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.

Texas, Article 1, Section 4:
No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.



Maybe people will start to see the light, and end this "politically correct" silliness about not being able to enforce their 2000 year old goat herder logic on others and get M'erica back on track to a time when you could insult anyone you wanted other then the people making the rules.
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 40
view profile
History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 11:47:32 AM

Maybe people will start to see the light, and end this "politically correct" silliness about not being able to enforce their 2000 year old goat herder logic on others and get M'erica back on track to a time when you could insult anyone you wanted other then the people making the rules.

Those laws share only one thing in common - a very old, musty, moldy smell, because they haven't been taken out in aired for so long. Kinda like all the other old, silly laws that about - in some places, it's illegal to chew gum on a Sunday, and there's probably still a few things floating around on the books that require somebody waving a flag in front of an automobile on public roads.

Just out of curiosity, how long do you think it would take for the lawsuits to fly, and for the Supreme Court to rule those provisions unconstitutional, if somebody tried to actually USE them?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 41
view profile
History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 2:52:17 PM
Message 30 ... LMAO ... either your hate for me is showing again or you're trying to project your own ignorant behavior on me.

I am an Atheist and have experienced people who treat me like some sort of outcast because I don't want to pray at company or club celebrations ... and I won't go along with asking someone's "sky wizard" to guide me in making decisions for the club or company. I really don't see why we have to pray at company meetings or celebrations.

If you don't believe in a "sky wizard", should you have to pray with the ones who do believe? Do those people have a right to treat me as an outcast just because I don't believe in a "sky wizard"? What if I believe in a different "sky wizard" than they do? Should they have a right to treat me badly because of it?

Let Me take a WAG here, When this comes up You Strongly disagree with those People...
I'm sure that's what you'd like to believe, but it is not true ... I do not say a word. There's no need to because (for example) in the one case, apparently others weren't focusing on their prayer and noticed that I didn't "bow me head and pray with them". When they asked why, I told them that I'm not religious and asked if they had read their copy of the club constitution. When they asked what that has to do with things, I reminded them that it happens to be against the constitution of the club ... "no religious discussions at the board or membership meetings".

It wasn't necessary for me to draw attention to myself (as you insinuate and perhaps envision an Atheist throwing some sort of hissy fit) because the people were so busy trying to force their religion on others that they couldn't focus on their praying.

I don't know what kind of people you hang out with, but your hateful projection of how an Atheist would go about protesting being forced to participate in praying that is clearly not only not necessary at such meeting and celebrations but even actually against the club rules ... well the way you portray it is just hateful and shows how ignorant you are.

You only don't understand when others make Fun of Your Atheism....... You're perfectly Fine Referring to their 'God' as a 'Sky Wizard'.... You're sure Okie Dokie making Fun of Their Religion..... Proof is Right Here in Your Own Words......
"Sky wizard" pretty much describes the way people carry on while praying ... throwing their hands up to the sky and looking up ... begging for help and guidance from some imaginary thing ... begging that the imaginary thing will give them strength to make the right decisions in the meeting or celebration we're about to partake in ... much like the "The wizard of Oz"

It was a local singles square dance club ... what the hell could go wrong if we didn't pray at our board meeting?


I would Bet You make a Big Stink when this comes up & You're around......
You're wrong ... and posting such ignorance just encourages people to believe the same ignorant shyt you apparently believe about Atheists.

It's nothing new to me ... it's typical intolerance of anyone who is a non-believer. They treat us in the same way they treat Muslims. They have no understanding for the way we believe and so they make us out to be some sort animal foaming at the mouth when they try to force their beliefs on us.

Message 33 ...
@cotter
You must be talking about Israel or the west bank for them to be denied a building permit.
No ... this was going on back in the late 1960's and the family being denied a building permit was non-jewish. They were Muslims and had been living peacefully with their jewish neighbors for many years.

From what I understand, the practice of denying Muslims building permits and the right to buy building materials was done so that eventually the jewish inspectors could come by and condemn the homes of the Muslims, forcing them to leave without the ability to sell their home or property.

Why build a structure if its going to be bulldozed?
Soooo ... you're saying that Muslim dwellings should be bulldozed ... they don't have the right to own land and maintain it as a home?

I couldn't get served in a Jewish deli once but I just went somewhere else.:)
They don't serve jews in a jewish deli? Huh ... what's that all about?
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 42
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 2:55:36 PM

Those laws share only one thing in common - a very old, musty, moldy smell, because they haven't been taken out in aired for so long....


Well if you consider 2009 a long time I guess you are right.

Critics Say Atheist N.C. City Councilman Unworthy of Seat
Published December 14, 2009
AP
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/14/critics-say-atheist-nc-city-councilman-unworthy-seat/


In related news:


"No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God."

H.W. Bush
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 43
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 3:22:12 PM

Well if you consider 2009 a long time I guess you are right.

The council bringing the antiquated law up was in 2009 - the law itself was drafted in 1868 and wasn't removed from the State's constitution when it was amended in 1971. So ya, the law is very old, musty, etc., PLUS: "Bothwell can't be forced out of office over his atheist views because the North Carolina provision is unenforceable, according to the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution. Six other states, Arkansas, Maryland, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas, have similar provisions barring atheist officeholders.

In 1961, the U.S. Supreme Court reaffirmed that federal law prohibits states from requiring any kind of religious test to serve in office when it ruled in favor of a Maryland atheist seeking appointment as a notary public."

Unfortunately, the bible thumpers could still make it a pain in the butt attempting to go court if they have counsel who's as thumpy as them and refuses to heed the previous 1961 case law. Pretty twisted Christian behaviour as far as I'm concerned.
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 44
view profile
History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 3:39:33 PM
@hfx:
Thank you for that - I'm sure you think it proves your point.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/14/critics-say-atheist-nc-city-councilman-unworthy-seat/

Unfortunately for you, I don't always assume I'm right- when people post links, I actually *read* them, on the off-chance that I might actually learn something. Also unfortunately for you, here are excerpts from the link that YOU provided, to serve as proof YOUR position ......

Bothwell's detractors are threatening to take the city to court for swearing him in, even though the state's antiquated requirement that officeholders believe in God is unenforceable because it violates the U.S. Consititution.

Threatening isn't the same as succeeding. As I said - it's unenforceable (BTW - did you notice that they misspelled "Constitution"?) Maybe they are only THREATENING (instead of actually doing it) because they know it won't fly?

The provision was included when the document was drafted in 1868

That would account for the moldy smell.

and then

Bothwell can't be forced out of office over his atheist views because the North Carolina provision is unenforceable, according to the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution. Six other states, Arkansas, Maryland, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas, have similar provisions barring atheist officeholders.

and then

n 1961, the U.S. Supreme Court reaffirmed that federal law prohibits states from requiring any kind of religious test to serve in office when it ruled in favor of a Maryland atheist seeking appointment as a notary public.


and then

Bothwell said a legal challenge to his appointment would be "fun," but believes his opponents' efforts have more to do with politics than religious beliefs.

and

Even if he can't force Bothwell out of office, Edgerton said he hopes a legal battle would ultimately force North Carolina's Legislature to determine the legality of the article of the Constitution.

Like I said - how long till the lawsuits start to fly?

Provisions like North Carolina's tend to stay on the books because lawmakers would rather not spend time weeding out outdated laws, said Duke University Law School Professor Joseph Blocher.

"I mean there are state laws against spitting in the street," he said. "Why spend the time?"

I seem to remember saying something like that myself.

Now - for your "other" piece of evidence ........

"No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God."

H.W. Bush

That is Bush's opinion, and he has the "god given" right to have it. But guess what? His opinion isn't law - so it has exactly zero to do with anything.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 45
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 3:53:41 PM

@hfx:
Thank you for that - I'm sure you think it proves your point.


He's notorious for this. Kind of funny actually.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 46
view profile
History
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 4:01:42 PM
Message 45 ...

"No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God."

H.W. Bush

That is Bush's opinion, and he has the "god given" right to have it. But guess what? His opinion isn't law - so it has exactly zero to do with anything.
Which "god"?

It's only "one nation under god" because the bible thumpers lobbied to have it added back in 1954.

I personally believe it should be removed again because the US is considered a melting pot and should welcome all ... races, colors, and creeds. Not all believe in the same god or even in any god ... and those people should feel welcome and comfortable in pledging their allegiance to our country as well.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 47
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 4:25:47 PM

cotter:
Which "god"?

It's only "one nation under god" because the bible thumpers lobbied to have it added back in 1954.

I personally believe it should be removed again because the US is considered a melting pot and should welcome all ... races, colors, and creeds. Not all believe in the same god or even in any god ... and those people should feel welcome and comfortable in pledging their allegiance to our country as well.



I bet it just 'Frosts Your Cookies' that those Dead White Men wrote this in the Declaration of Independence......


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


Also, Tell the Truth, You use Invisible Sky Wizards & Xtians as a Insult to Christians & other Religious people...
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 48
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 4:29:53 PM
Thank GOD for the declaration of Independence and the founders and their beliefs in God. A very low minority flinging insults is just proving said person's ignorance.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 49
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 5:39:08 PM

Thank GOD for the declaration of Independence and the founders and their beliefs in God.


I just watched a program about the love of "God" within America, and one of the things they talked about is how a lot of Americans keep going back to the "declaration" and the belief that the founding fathers were all lovers of this "God", which, if they actually knew a few of these fathers, would understand that a couple of them never went to church.

It was an very interesting program by the way, and views from a lot of people from different religions. But, it can coming back to this line about what religion the "country" was "founded on", and a lot of people believe THAT should never change.

EVER!!!!!

In some people's eyes, you have the "right" to freedom of speech, as long as you are saying what they want to hear. Dare to question or voice an opposing opinion, and you should get ready to be labelled, or shot. Or both. Only in North America.
 robaustralia
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 50
Freedom of Speech?
Posted: 1/29/2015 5:54:41 PM
Charlie Hebdo also publish satirical cartoons making fun of Christians and Jews. The difference being that no Christian or Jew deemed it necessary to execute the journalists.

Here is a thought experiment, if the prophet Mohammed suddenly appeared on Earth. That would mean Muslims can't take his photo and publish it, I'll bet that wouldn't happen.
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