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Show ALL Forums  > Plentyoffish Site/Suggestions/Help  > Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be looser      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 CuriousInDB
Joined: 7/12/2014
Msg: 1076
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R Page 44 of 47    (7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47)

A barracuda? Interesting how people can be different with each person they interact with. That is not a word I would use to describe my friend.
With me....he was an absolute sweetheart who was dedicated to his children, family, friends, community and Church.

Now.....a teacher? Yes....that word I would use.....He taught me to "view life from a previously unused perch" and "how unimportant POF forums are in the big picture."

Of course he was dedicated to his family and community. We are all multi-faceted, and the part of himself that Bobby shared most with me (and maybe that's because it's what we had most in common), was his barracuda side as it pertains to folks and there dirty doings here. He wasn't working on this thread the last ten days of his life between heart attacks because he was a family man, kj. He worked on this thread and made sure I had everything I needed here to post (still haven't gotten to all that yet; 4-page email) in long messages to my private email up to the day before he deleted his profile to spend more time with his family.

Hopefully, we are all more than the short list of traits you attributed here to Bobby.

Bobby Z man

I know that it’s wrong of me, but when someone is anonymously texting me threats, (it has happen twice now) I take them up on the meeting and set it up for a public place during daylight. Both times I have had someone there as a witness/backup and both times they never showed themselves. Either they never showed or did but didn’t have the testicular fortitude to approach me.

Again, probably not the smartest thing but I did want to see if they had it in them to say the things to my face that they texted.

OP, I’m sure you have done this, but if not be sure to change your POF password. And anytime you are using a public computer be sure to clean the browser caches before and after if you can. If not, you probably shouldn’t use that computer, for your own safety and security.

^^^In case anyone has forgotten when I posted that earlier, that is right here on the Site Issues forum.

You all, any of you, can post what you want about me, accuse me of being crazy/stupid/dishonest, I simply do not care. Bobby warned me, but he didn't have to.

Forums should imo be the best of POF. Some of you don't have much to be proud of (not addressing you with that, kj).

I'm not here to make friends. I already have plenty of those.
 theforumfiend
Joined: 10/21/2007
Msg: 1077
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/1/2015 2:05:39 PM
You may not be here to make friends and think you're cleaning up the forums, but lately I'm thinking you're becoming one of the bullies you complain about. Not all threads need to become about you and/or Tall (and you know how I feel about him).

As for calling Bobby a barracuda I take issue with that since the connotation in calling someone a barracuda is a vicious, selfish person. You'd have done better to describe him as tenacious or determined. His family may be reading this someday. Anyone even remotely familiar with him knew him as helpful and honest.

From the Free Dictionary
tenacious
Also found in: Medical, Legal, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
te·na·cious (tə-nā′shəs)
adj.
1.
a. Extremely persistent in adhering to or doing something; stubborn or relentless: "tenacious defenders of their harsh and pitiless land" (Dee Brown).
b. Characterized by extreme persistence; relentless or enduring: tenacious detective work; tenacious superstitions.
2. Holding together firmly; cohesive: a tenacious material.
3. Clinging to another object or surface; adhesive: tenacious lint.
4. Tending to retain; retentive: a tenacious memory.
[From Latin tenāx, tenāc-, holding fast, from tenēre, to hold; see ten- in Indo-European roots.]

Determined adjective
1. Indicatincg or possessing determination, resolution, or persistence:
constant, firm, resolute, steadfast, steady, stiff, tough, unbending, uncompromising, unflinching, unwavering, unyielding.
2. Not hesitating or wavering:
decided, decisive, firm, resolute.
3. On an unwavering course of action:
bent, decided, fixed, intent, resolute, set.
 CuriousInDB
Joined: 7/12/2014
Msg: 1078
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/1/2015 2:19:09 PM

As for calling Bobby a barracuda I take issue with that since the connotation in calling someone a barracuda is a vicious, selfish person.

Oh for heaven's sake. Really? Ever been in a nightclub when that song was played by the band or someone sang karaoke? In a Florida bar or nightclub?

lol

It's a colloquial slang term and not necessarily negative, particularly on Plentyoffish and my being a Florida girl?

And I've never said Bobby was helpful and given examples of his honesty? That post I left here this morning for the second time doesn't show tenacity?

Some of you all have really been here too long. Games of semantics now?

Go for it, everyone. Find anything you can to take me apart. What's your goal? Want me to leave the site? Quit posting? Just ask. I may accommodate you. And I may not. It's really getting unbelievable now.

Why don't you all just report my profile for "posting things I don't agree with" and have my content deleted again?

Pathetic.

"Are People on Plenty of Fish... forums ...special?

You betcha.

Keep the customer satisfied I like to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx6_0Do0qGQ
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 1079
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/1/2015 2:43:04 PM
I think what more than a few people are saying is - back off a bit, let some of the posts go as you're not the Keeper of the forums. You're not the owner , you're not a mod and neither Ed nor Bobby said "you're in charge now" as even they didn't have the right to do that. It's up to all of us to sort things out, report the bad guys and stay relatively civil on here. All,of us.

We did a good job here, all of us, let's all be aware but let's not let it rule us. And yes, it was addicting for the first week or so of this thread. Time to let it die.
 theforumfiend
Joined: 10/21/2007
Msg: 1080
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/1/2015 3:54:25 PM

Barracuda"

So this ain't the end - I saw you again today
Had to turn my heart away
You smiled like the
Sun - Kisses for everyone
And tales - it never fails!
You lying so low in the weeds
Bet you gonna ambush me
You'd have me down on my knees
Wouldn't you, Barracuda?
Back over
Time when we were all
Trying for free
Met up with porpoise and me
No right no wrong your selling a
Song - A name whisper game.
If the real thing don't do the trick
You better make up something quick
You gonna burn it out to the wick
Aren't you, Barracuda?
"Sell me sell you" the porpoise said
Dive down deep to save my head
You...I think you got the blues too.
All that night and all the next
Swam without looking back
Made for the western pools - silly fools!


Yeah, flattering.

What is your problem? I disagree with you and that means I'm trying to chase you off the forums? Dream on. I responded to your post. I don't agree. Pretty simple. Again, I'm sad to feel I'm seeing signs of the bullies you dispise in your posts.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 1081
view profile
History
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 1:30:25 AM
All this talk about olk being conned was interesting. Some are just pure gullible some delusional and the rest just downright barking. So whilst having a wee gander at the news this morning the drac did happen accross this here story. Now any sympathy i may have felt and that was very little for this daft trout soon vanished when i read the whole story.

'We are in love... and I am 95% certain he's telling the truth': Woman defends her decision to wire $1.4 MILLION to online lover in Africa she's never met
Twice-divorced Sarah met man named Chris Olsen online 18 months ago
Said he is from Italy, moved to U.S. 18 years ago, is in Africa for work
They have never met, he has been in South Africa, Nigeria and Benin
She has wired him $1.4m for bail, lawyers, lost credit cards, hotel bills
Sarah told Dr Phil she believes he loves her and will come home
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2974083/We-love-95-certain-s-telling-truth-Woman-defends-decision-wire-1-4-MILLION-online-lover-Africa-s-never-met.html#ixzz3TDauhxO4

Now 'chris olsen' the italian who lives a fair wee bit in africa has hit the bullseye has he not?

And of course its not just daftie wummin who get ripped off. Here is the aboves male equivelant. Here if only the two of them were on a free dating site like plenty of gullibles they could have met each other and sent each other money. As frank seems scared to ask kj out he could maybe just ask her to send him money instead? Or even just a message.

Eeee the wonders of modern technology

"Trusting chap sends more than $100,000 to the wife in Nigeria - he's never met!
Steve, 53, met 'Kelly' on an online dating website in 2012 - he got legally married to her in Nigeria, despite having never met
Says he's giving her money until she receives inheritance from her parents who she claims were killed in an Ohio car crash in 2012
'I've not met Kelly, but it doesn't matter. I love her just the same,' he said
Steve sells his plasma - the yellowish liquid that has to be separated from blood - twice a week to ensure he can make payments to 'Kelly'"
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2939798/Man-sells-blood-twice-week-send-100-000-wife-Nigeria-s-never-met.html#ixzz3TDbanqJt

P.s. Vlad Dracul would like to state that no matter what frank bleats the Drac does not stalk the fool. He merely dislikes frank and will use every opportunity to laugh at the twat under the troll bridge.

Vlad Dracul
Grand Goat Herder
Ancient Order of The Three Billy Goats Gruff
Troll Finder General
Little France
Edinburgh
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 1082
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 2:53:01 AM
I had the same unfortunate girl pop up one time back when POF had the chat feature. I told her to go directly to Western Union and stand by, 500.00 was on the way for food and lodging. Lol She messaged me back a couple of hours later saying it had'nt shown up. I said it must have been a mistake I'll go back and check and you go back and wait. I would'nt think they could still be there.....but you could always hope.....:)
 theforumfiend
Joined: 10/21/2007
Msg: 1083
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 6:01:32 AM
Are you guys trying to tell me that I'm not really royalty?
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 1084
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 6:16:39 AM

Are you guys trying to tell me that I'm not really royalty?


Unfortunately no........sorry..........but there is good news! Obviously someone who thinks the world of you actually purchased a winning lottery ticket in your name!!!! Talk about good fortune!! Arrangements will be made to have the 750k wired to your account once the documentation fees and one time lottery tax totaling 1550.00 are wired to us. Call this number now!!! Lol
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 1085
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 6:45:49 AM
So to all the people who did not know that IceMan was a total douche bag you should really look at his posting history as compared to others in here.

As it does not take long to see some of the same patterns of personal insults and ultra conservative views that are expressed by others in here.


As Iceman did what others are doing today.

They find a common hate / enemy and work that angle to a T. They gain your trust and if and when the time is right and they feel comfortable enough they strike.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 1086
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 6:58:22 AM
^^^ HFX_RGB, can you post a link to those Iceman posts that indicated he was a douche bag?

The link I looked at with former Iceman posts was pretty run of the mill, but maybe you have another more informative link. I was curious to how he posted in the forums.

The links I saw were as follows.

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/myforums.aspx?user_id=24156510


http://forums.plentyoffish.com/usermessages.aspx?user_Id=24156510
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 1087
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 7:10:10 AM

^^^ HFX_RGB, can you post a link to those Iceman posts that indicated he was a douche bag?


You would have to go back through many of the political threads and look at all of the accounts he used to see it.


Though the Trump for Pres. link you posted does show some of his trends, one being claiming Trump was more ethical than Obama.


As more than not, people who value wealth over substance, tend to be people who will do anything for wealth, up to and including stealing from other people to get it.
 CuriousInDB
Joined: 7/12/2014
Msg: 1088
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 7:23:53 AM

As more than not, people who value wealth over substance, tend to be people who will do anything for wealth, up to and including stealing from other people to get it.

A greater truth has never been spoken on these forums. That applies to both genders.

I think most of us understand how these women (and men, in some cases) are conned.

I'm throwing this out there for the piranhas because I care not, but I've read some interesting articles on how a person who is not looking to gain something from the con simply cannot be conned. Also, men/women who generally don't received much attention from the opposite gender (in the case of heteros) are often easily manipulated by cons. Tall and Glenn Whitter chose the same type of women (sorry, but true). In Whitter's case, he conned for money. In Tall's case, he conned for "helpers". What is the difference, really? They both conned/manipulated to get what they want (and, in the case of Tall, still wants).

I leave that for your entertainment and vilification, those of you who are easily threatened and enjoy that sort of thing.

I have not googled youmakeitentertaining or whatever her user name was, but I do remember reading some of her posts and she struck me as far less "disturbed" than a lot of the folks here.

Are you guys trying to tell me that I'm not really royalty?

Right, bug. All joking aside, you're not royalty, I'm not royalty and neither are so many of those here who think they are.

And before any of you call me "crazy" again, I've posted on another thread that I have current papers attesting to my mental health (and it's all good). You want to call me crazy, present your papers. Lotta fruitcakes here for sure.
 Ainen
Joined: 6/27/2013
Msg: 1089
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 7:27:04 AM
Iceman is a good example of "chicks dig jerks". I wonder how many of the women who were so fond of them thought he only paid attention to her, not realizing he went after countless other women too.

Perhaps one reason so many people in the forums seemed to like Iceman is they were liberal, afraid to say anything negative about a black person.

The main thing I remember about Iceman is his explanation about the difference between a nice guy and a good guy. Ironic so many women thought he was such a good guy.

I'll give Iceman credit for having a cool screen name: Mahogany Rush (obscure Canadian rock band featuring Frank Marino on guitar).
 CuriousInDB
Joined: 7/12/2014
Msg: 1090
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 7:35:14 AM

Iceman is a good example of "chicks dig jerks". I wonder how many of the women who were so fond of them thought he only paid attention to her, not realizing he went after countless other women too.

What's truly interesting is, if you read these threads and other threads here, we have many of the same women who were "friends" with Tall and Whitter.

Once again, folks who are not looking to gain something from the con man/woman, are not good prospects for conning.

Many folks fall for superficial charm, especially when that charmer is complimenting them on things others don't.

EDIT: And fruitcakes are easy to spot if one knows what they're looking for ... and what they're looking at.
 Fire_and_Ice4_You
Joined: 10/28/2014
Msg: 1091
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 8:17:16 AM

I wonder how many of the women who were so fond of them thought he only paid attention to her, not realizing he went after countless other women too

Well...I was one that admitted to thinking he was a decent guy and I had no interaction with him at all....privately or wanted to. He seemed to understand women and didn't back down from guys. I may not have always agreed with hi but in no way did he come off as a "jerk".
I didn't read the political threads. Maybe, a "good con" is just not obvious and chooses trusting people.

As for the woman "UmakeItentertaining"....I didn't view her as a flake or pushover whatsoever.
I don't know any others that he scammed.....so, I have no idea if he chose A type.
She came across as smart and compassionate.
If you read the article....He apparently, paid her back up to a point and then disappeared.
Sad...really! That this exists.....nobody can trust anyone anymore.
 CuriousInDB
Joined: 7/12/2014
Msg: 1092
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 8:39:34 AM

He seemed to understand women and didn't back down from guys.

Cons are all socio/psychopaths (simply an outdated term in the psychiatric community). After the movie Psycho, the psychiatric community decided the term "psycho" reflected badly on ... well, psychos. They should have kept the name so people would be more drawn to research. Sensationalism sells.

Those who con women make it their business to "understand women". Women are their commodity, after all, their lifeblood. Conning is a "profession", an "occupation". It's how they earn most if not all of their living.

As for not backing down, if a con thinks backing down in the presence of a woman is more to his benefit than not backing down, he will tailor his behavior to get what it wants. Different strokes for different folks.

I may not have always agreed with hi but in no way did he come off as a "jerk".

They know/learn how to not come off as a jerk. This excerpt is from the DSM V criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (which has nothing to do with being introverted before someone goes there):

Manipulativeness: Frequent use of subterfuge to influence or control others; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve ones ends.

Here is a link to the full criteria:

http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/victims-of-psychopaths-sociopaths/discussions/messages/16692294


I didn't read the political threads. Maybe, a "good con" is just not obvious and chooses trusting people.

Many of us are trusting; not all of us are vulnerable. Some of us recognize superficial charm/glibness. They choose their targets by who is most vulnerable to what they have to offer. I good-looking con man is a successful con man, sadly. That is as much a statement on the state of our society as anything else.

I don't know any others that he scammed.....so, I have no idea if he chose A type.

They all choose the same type, that's the thing.

She came across as smart and compassionate.

She did to me, too. I "liked" her. She seemed honest, a thing all of you know I value highly (squawk as some of you may for whatever your reasons are). Smart and compassionate are not incompatible with vulnerability.

If you read the article....He apparently, paid her back up to a point and then disappeared.

They all do that. It's called the "long con". Little bits of money, paid back, over and over until they go in for the kill, the jackpot.

Sad...really! That this exists.....nobody can trust anyone anymore.

I have a lot of people in my life I trust, but trust is earned, not given away.

I hope what I've posted here helps some understand sociopaths better and may help some of us prevent it from happening to us and those we care about. Sad fact is, once a target is in deep with a con, there's very little reasoning with that target and soon-to-be victim. Sociopaths are that manipulative. And today, we have all the PUA lit out there on the net. A veritable feast for this type of person.
 PenelopeLeChat
Joined: 7/29/2014
Msg: 1093
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 1:41:49 PM
Fire and Ice,

Well...I was one that admitted to thinking he was a decent guy and I had no interaction with him at all....privately or wanted to. He seemed to understand women and didn't back down from guys. I may not have always agreed with hi but in no way did he come off as a "jerk".


Your not the only one. My first profile on POF was made in Feb of 08. Akimbo was one of the first people that contacted me here in the forums. I never thought he was out there and then started hearing things through the grapevine.

I ended up talking to Canadian Iceman on the phone a few times when I lived in Ontario. We talked about meeting but I guess I wasn't a good "investment" for him. lol

It seems there was another kind of kooky character that lived in N.C. that lived in his van and had a penchant for getting women to come visit him. I have been trying to remember his name.

BTW, apologies for the infrequent use of comma's. My dog drooled on my keyboard and it does not always work. lol

As always,
Le Pew
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 1094
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 1:42:11 PM

He seemed to understand women and didn't back down from guys. I may not have always agreed with hi but in no way did he come off as a "jerk".


Agree. I thought he was one of the funniest posters on here, easily.

And gee….a liberal (or whatever) thinks he posted an inflammatory conservative viewpoint on the political threads???? That never happens. :/


Perhaps one reason so many people in the forums seemed to like Iceman is they were liberal, afraid to say anything negative about a black person.


How dumb. People liked him because they were afraid of him? One of his biggest forum foes was a black man.

So let’s tally it up…slams against women, blacks, other men, liberals….not bad for one post. :/
 tgif111
Joined: 10/24/2014
Msg: 1095
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 3:01:35 PM
from Ainen

I'll give Iceman credit for having a cool screen name: Mahogany Rush (obscure Canadian rock band featuring Frank Marino on guitar).

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I remember them when they came through Youngstown in the early 70's. there was Rush and Mahogany Rush at the same time. lol
 CuriousInDB
Joined: 7/12/2014
Msg: 1096
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 7:18:01 PM

tgif111
Joined: 10/24/2014
Msg: 120

"How do sexually conservative people survive in dating?"

Posted: 3/2/2015 327 PM

suffice it to say I do not date nor do I want to be in the same room as a Daytona Beach drug addict WHO IS 1200 MILES AWAY FROM ME.

once a liar always a liar.

pathetic hogger sludge eyed doper. you are beneath me.


she had an emotional connection with a 22 year old????

gag me with a spoon please. the only thing this skank nurtures is a twisted joint handed to her from a homeless bum so they can suck on it together to get high in a dark alley then he gets his due reward.....
+slurp+slurp+slurp



Tall_IQ2 the biggest banned troll you'd ever see! aka Forum Posting Violations Please Report Here
Posted: 3/2/2015 313 PM
CuriousInDB

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/16361884datingPostpage5.aspx

How do sexually conservative people survive in dating?
Posted: 3/2/2015 1227 PM


tgif111 for the following post. I think posts like this are a negative reflection on the website:


suffice it to say I do not date nor do I want to be in the same room as a Daytona Beach drug addict WHO IS 1200 MILES AWAY FROM ME.

once a liar always a liar.

pathetic hogger sludge eyed doper. you are beneath me.


she had an emotional connection with a 22 year old????

gag me with a spoon please. the only thing this skank nurtures is a twisted joint handed to her from a homeless bum so they can suck on it together to get high in a dark alley then he gets his due reward.....

++++++++++++++slurp slurp+slurp+slurp++++++++++++++++++++


Many users have posted that tgif has been banned for life here for posts like this. This is dive bar talk, not public forums talk. I'm requesting his account be deleted.
 CuriousInDB
Joined: 7/12/2014
Msg: 1097
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 7:53:02 PM
bluemoon24_7, Another Forumite's Party Experience...

I don't believe tgif has been banned for life. He, like many, have received bans of either posting limits, word limits, can't create threads, can't post more than 3 or 10 a day and like many, has deleted his profile and created another. And like many, has done so more than once. I will say in his defence, the vast majority of his bans came from posting in the political type threads where things get very heated by the majority of those posting there. He may be a lot of things, and I rarely agree with him, but I wil not partake in a witch hunt to delete him because of a pissing contest between two forum posters who, quit frankly, were both insulted. And I encourage others to disregard the request for assistance to delete his profile.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 1098
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/2/2015 8:07:00 PM
And....

Do you have a problem with my opinion? My opinion is, you're out of control. You need to step back...you're not the boss, you're not a mod, you're not Ed, you're not Bobby and your wish is not my command, nor anyone else's .

You have posted your wish to deleted tgif in three threads that I'm aware of. Do you realize how crazy and petty and vindictive this makes you appear? What is the purpose ?

You got slammed today. Go have a hot bath, watch a movie and have a glass of wine. Leave your computer alone.
 Never_in_Life
Joined: 1/13/2015
Msg: 1099
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/3/2015 3:29:14 AM

You got slammed today. Go have a hot bath, watch a movie and have a glass of wine. Leave your computer alone.


I'm in agreement with this, and I gotta say it almost feels like I'm witness to a descent of sorts. Curious, you need to step back and chill the f out.

Just for a little bit.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 1100
view profile
History
Tall_IQ2 is just a big fake wanna be L O S E R
Posted: 3/3/2015 7:43:16 PM
It's like a rogues gallery, here on this thread.
No goodniks all the way around.
How in the heck, can you ever trust anyone ?
When there is no honesty anywhere to be found?

Yet I know good folks abound, but the bad ones make the good ones harder to be found.
They seem to get all the press, make the bulk of the mess and depend on others to clean it up.

Opinion, as usual.
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