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 Bebedeleau
Joined: 2/25/2013
Msg: 51
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The pope and so called selfish couples...Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I don't believe for one minute that G*d is going to sit in judgment of us and hand out some ultimate and binding reward or punishment. That makes no sense. As parents, if you want to go with the whole 'father' thing, we purposely let or encourage our children explore things that they probably will fail at to learn. How can you possibility set someone up like that in a world like this. It doesn't sound like a G*d at all, but rather someone I really wouldn't want to spend 'eternity' with, let alone a day, or a moment, or even behold at all. Just the concept contridicts so many other things that are 'G*d like'.

When I decided that no, this does not 'sound right' or make sense that was my deciding factor. If I had to spend 'eternity' with someone like that I'd take my chances on something else or nothing at all. I'm placing my bets on a (partial) misrepresentation claim.

If I have to mark something on a form I usually put 'Christian'. It's just the religion I was raised most with.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 52
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/17/2015 7:23:39 PM

the Pope is a smart guy. Buys and cooks his own food.


My friend Tanya that has Down Syndrome does that too...but she doesn't tell the world to procreate.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 53
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/17/2015 8:32:36 PM
The Pope has cleared out a lot of dead wood.He is a smary guy.

He buys and cooks his own food.

Yes bluemoon, western christians need to procreate.Nature has created a diverse world.Dont bother to question, our level of understanding pales compared to whoever designed this place.
 SeainaStorm
Joined: 2/7/2015
Msg: 54
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/17/2015 9:30:01 PM

An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do now to be sure that no such God exists. To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed


Carl Sagan


The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.


Albert Einstein
 EdKansas
Joined: 6/15/2013
Msg: 55
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The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/17/2015 11:21:06 PM
Christians and atheists have troubling agreeing on the existence of one particular god.

Fortunately, christians and atheists find common ground on their mutual disbelief on the other one thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine gods that man has claimed to exist.

Can't we concentrate on our similarities instead of our differences?
 Eternityboresme
Joined: 8/20/2014
Msg: 56
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 4:33:26 AM

Having biological children is the most selfish and greedy thing a person can do.


My two, very responsible, empathetic, loving children don't think so. Neither do I. I could very well say that people who can afford adoption -- and adopt ONLY babies and those from parents who actually desperately want their children -- to be extremely selfish and self-centered ... but that's another story.

By the way, my gay son said he'd like to adopt his children and not use a woman as a breeding vessel for any of his future children. And I raised this chap to whom I gave birth,,
Not bad for one of those autistictards (or whatevers) you verbally bashed in another thread. Didn't you also say homosexuality is a sin?

You're full of shit.
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 57
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 5:19:49 AM

Having biological children is the most selfish and greedy thing a person can do.


Now I will admit that poster has said some crazy sh*t, but that statement actually has some validity to it.




My two, very responsible, empathetic, loving children don't think so. Neither do I....


Which proves nothing, as you would need to provide a "reason" as to why you had to have kids to refute the claim that it was not a act that could be seen as greedy or selfish.
 WhoamI_46
Joined: 1/1/2015
Msg: 58
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 6:53:34 AM
Well I think the pope is just a person in a authority position that needs to make statements that are concurrent with the views of so many people following like sheep.

How many children are being born in this world, that are starving, have diseases that countries can't and won't control, and who's parents are so selfish to leave them home while they live their life?

Everything in life is a choice. Everything. I choose to come to reality to accept that religion was not the way I wanted to live or raise my children. I had children because I wanted children. I raised my children to be humanitarians, and to treat all people with kindness and respect.

I live in a city where we see daily the lives of young children being ripped apart because of addicted adults. These children do not have a chance at a normal life because the parents have made a bad choice and they must pay for it. And yet , they go to church and believe that GOD will take care of everything. It *isses me off to no end to see children suffering at the hands of adults who are waiting for some fairy tale to come true.

How many children are born in 3rd world countries that do not allow the use of condoms because it's against the rules of the church? and these babies are born with Aids?

I can respect anyone that wants to have a belief, I just cannot respect adults who make poor choices and the children suffer, all in the name of religion.

And to say that people are selfish if they don't want to have children. I believe we need more selfish and greedy people to say they choose to not bring children into this world if they cannot look after them and provide them with all their needs.

The pope needs to come off his paulpet now!
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 59
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 7:39:46 AM
+1 on this. Most of the childless people I know truly wish they had more family, especially as they get older. I never hear people complain that they have too much family.

"Bebedeleau
Joined: 2/25/2013
Msg: 15
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The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/16/2015 155 PM

Life rejuvenates and acquires energy when it multiplies: It is enriched, not impoverished.”


IMO, wise words. IMO, it's true. Really guys? You can't say this is true?

I'm not catholic, but isn't this the guy that sneaks out at night without his pope mobile and pope clothes to hang out with the homeless people? Cut him some slack. He's supposed to try to share his wisdom. Life rejuvenates and acquires energy when it multiplies: It is enriched, not impoverished. Pretty wise. Think about it, not the "Omg, now you are telling me I have to have children?" (as if anyone would listen and base their life on that anyways). Would it be more true to say "life rejuvenates and acquires energy" when middle ages and older people live alone, with no one to look after them in their old years, by themselves with the tv, no grandkids to excitedly come through the door saying "Grandma! Guess what?' and living the enriched lives of their dreams? Oh wait, I guess that wouldn't be true if they took that month long vacation every year. Now that would be an enriched life.

He's just looking out for people who don't know these things yet and perhaps a fear that they will never know that blessing. Hands up, who can say their kids and grand kids haven't enriched their life, or that a new grand baby in the family hasn't rejuvenated things? Not many people can wholeheartedly say "dang rugrats and the spawn of the rug rats have done nothing but impoverished me".

Think of it as pope pawpaw handing out some life advice/wisdom. You know, like people in the end saying they wish they hadn't worked so much. You don't know to believe that until YOU are at the end.

Didn't he "not want to be" pope and hope not to win the tie vote? I wonder why. He could have happily doing his own life's work and not deal with all this. Wait, maybe he is doing his life's work. I'm confused.

Anyways, yeah, go do good things, hundreds of them, but do one 'wrong' and nothing you do- did good matters. Makes sense. I'm not confused anymore. Glad we got that straight."
 CuriousInDB
Joined: 7/12/2014
Msg: 60
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 7:43:05 AM

How many children are born in 3rd world countries that do not allow the use of condoms because it's against the rules of the church? and these babies are born with Aids?

The Church has committed atrocities since the beginning.

I think we're all aware of Mother Teresa. Once you get past the Catholic hype, that's a whole different story.

A friend of mine is fond of saying that any "organization" that pushes this "brotherhood/sisterhood" is almost always evil. I do believe he's right.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 61
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 8:56:44 AM
People not using condoms in third world countries such as in africa....and this is the fault of the Pope?

People don't use condoms because they dont like the feel or they wish to impregnate the woman.As far as I know, condoms are freely available in many African countries.The church doesn't carry much weight when it comes to sex and the african male.

And what GT said about grandchildren.Children bring joy.

Really liked those quotes SS provided.A brilliant man Einstein was.
 CuriousInDB
Joined: 7/12/2014
Msg: 62
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 9:10:07 AM
Mother Teresa preached against birth control in India. I'm thinking that was at the direction of the Catholic church.

Biological children and adopted children all bring joy. The propagation of our genes isn't all that big a thing to celebrate anymore now that most of us are aware of what is happening on the planet. So, yes, if I were of childbearing age now, I'd adopt if I wanted children. There is an argument to be made that children already in existence without homes should be cared for first before we selfishly reproduce our genetic material. Yep, sure is. I can understand that movement among young people today. Sure can.

I'll catch hell for this, but is it any different than the way I feel when someone I know buys a dog from a breeder instead of going to the humane society for a pup? I don't think so and, in the case of dogs, mutts tend to be brighter and have fewer problems than purebreds. But I digress ...

You all probably know more about Christopher Hitchens than I do, but here's just some of his opinion on Mother Teresa:

Christopher Hitchens held many controversial stances during his life, but among the most controversial was his vitriolic campaign against the beloved Mother Teresa. Why did he have such a problem with a Nobel Peace Prize winner who devoted much of her life to helping the poor?

Pitting Hitchens against Mother Teresa seems like an unfair fight. The heavy-drinking, Oxford-educated writer who attacked politicians with his pen versus the frail, pious nun who helped the poor with her hands appears too absurd to even watch. But Mother Teresa's image as an innocent do-gooder was false, Hitchens said, and he attacked it hard during his career.

Quoting Mark Twain, Hitchens said about the saint from Calcutta: “Give a man the reputation for being an early riser and that man can sleep until noon.”

Hitchens insisted that Mother Teresa was anything but the apolitical savior of the poor that she was known to be. Rather, he blasted the nun for being a willing political tool for the Vatican, a validator of corrupt, right-wing political leaders, and even more surprisingly, a suppressor, rather than savior, of the poor. Mother Teresa was incorrectly adored by the media, he insisted.

In "Hell's Angel", a documentary Hitchens made about Mother Teresa, the author reveals that what irked the most about Mother Teresa was claim to being apolitical, despite evidence he believed disproved her claim.

During her Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech in 1979, Mother Teresa said that abortion was the greatest threat to world peace.

“The greatest destroyer of peace today is the crime of the innocent unborn child,” she said. “If a mother can murder her own child in her own womb, what is left for you and for me to kill each other?”

During the speech, Mother Teresa also argued strongly against contraceptives.

Hitchens, who also had anti-abortion sentiments, said, “Tenderness about the unborn is an emotion that I share myself. But tenderness about the unborn also becomes an overtly political matter when it's preached by a presumable virgin who also campaigns against birth control.”

He added that Mother Teresa's family-planning policies were especially disturbing since she worked in India, a country with hundreds of millions of people living in dire poverty.

Yeah. Kind of a long read for here, but irrational thinking truly disturbs me and I'm always trying to help folks "see the light" (that phrase is kinda funny under these circumstances).
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 63
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 11:05:51 AM

As far as I know, condoms are freely available in many African countries. The church doesn't carry much weight when it comes to sex and the african male.


Which is 100% correct, as it is clear you know very little about the christian church and its influence in Africa.


The Catholic Church In Africa
March 25, 2010
By Angela Carone, Maureen Cavanaugh


MAUREEN CAVANAUGH (Host): I'm Maureen Cavanaugh, and you're listening to These Days on KPBS. The Roman Catholic Church has been suffering a decline in membership and clergy in most areas of the world, except on the continent of Africa. There, the church has gained a stronghold. The nation of Nigeria is now home to the world's largest Catholic seminary. As African nations gain in numbers and influence within the church, it is likely African priests and bishops will begin shaping the message of the church....

Educate yourself with regards to the influence the catholic church has in Africa at:

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/mar/25/catholic-church-africa/
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 64
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 12:49:54 PM
Even Catholic priests take wives in Africa. There is societal pressure to have a wife, if you don't they are suspected of being gay or a pedo.


If condoms were being used, HIV would not have attained the levels it has.

Back to the drawing board hfx.
 robaustralia
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 65
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 2:05:10 PM

A friend of mine is fond of saying that any "organisation" that pushes "brotherhood/sisterhood" is almost always evil. I do believe he's right.


That would mean your friend is a douchebag as well.

Good things pioneered by the Church and committed Christians in modern society


\'95 The Church is the largest single provider of healthcare in the world\
\'95 also the largest single provider of education in the world\
\'95 Church fathers successfully campaigned against infanticide in society\
\'95 and stood up for the rights of women by codifying marriage as a sacrament\
\'95 The first orphanages were churches \
\'95 Barnardos is the world's largest orphanage system\
\'95 Churches pioneered the first homes for the elderly\
\'95 and the first homes for the disabled in society\
\'95 Leading society to abolish the slave trade (Wilberforce and the church)\
\'95 Pioneers of modern social workers (Jane Adams)\
\'95 Fathers of modern Foster Care (Charles L. Brace)\
\'95 The Mothers Union - strengthening family life. Founded in 1876\
\'95 Free health care for the terminally ill (Douglas Macmillan)\
\'95 Pioneers of modern nursing (F.Nightingale)\
\'95 Almost all schools were church founded before the state took over\
\'95 100 out of 110 US universities were church founded (inc. Yale, Princeton and Harvard)\
\'95 Pioneers of free schooling for poor young people (John Pounds)\
\'95 School for children in slums (R.Raikes)\
\'95 World Literacy pioneers (SIL and Frank Lauback)\
\'95 Pioneers of education for the deaf (Rev. Gallaudet)\
\'95 Braille system for the blind developed by Louis Braille.\
\'95 First laws to protect children from abuse (Soc. PCC - Rev B Waugh)\
\'95 Fighting for the rights of children working in factories (Richard Oastler)\
\'95 as well as campaigning for Poor Law reform\
\'95 Josephine Butler campaigned for the age of consent to be set to 16 so children could not be abused.\
\'95 YMCA - caring for young people in society\
\'95 Salvation Army - pioneering radical care for the poor and disadvantaged in society\
\'95 Education for orphans (George Mueller)\
\'95 Campaigning for prison reform (Quakers)\
\'95 Temperance Movement to address alcohol abuse in society\
\'95 Alcoholics (and Narcotics) Anonymous (Dr. B.Smith)\
\'95 Leading society to adopt "fair trade" (Tearfund)\
\'95 Pioneers of Microfinance for poor countries (D.Bussau)\
\'95 Pioneers of international child sponsorship (World Vision, Dr. R. Price)\
\'95 Save The Children, huge worldwide mission (Eglantyne Jebb)\
\'95 Fathers of modern famine relief (Oxfam Quakers)\
\'95 International Housing for the poor - Habitat for Humanity (Millard Fuller)\
\'95 Justice for people worldwide who are oppressed (Amnesty International - P.Beneson, E.Baker)\
\'95 Leprosy Mission - caring for those no-one else wants (Dr. P.Wilson)\
\'95 King James Bible - profound impact on the English language and culture\
\
This is a partial list. For more examples and further reading visit:\
http://christiangoodinsociety.blogspot.com\


Just a few things achieved by the evil brotherhood/sisterhood.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 66
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The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 2:35:37 PM
When you look at the amount of wealth the Church controls having more members just makes sense.

More people = more money in the Sunday collection plate. Thus the urging to procreate. Why spend it on birth control when the church could make better use of it?

Plus, once a child is born into the faith the parents are encouraged to provide a Catholic education. Of course, this is'nt free but it is a good and proper way for the young to learn about the faith and become indoctrinated into it. Once accomplished, they can then go on to adulthood with the education necessary to find a good paying job. With that, comes their ability to then "pay it forward" again every Sunday.

And, when a Catholics days are done the final resting place should be no where else but a good old Catholic Cemetary. Again, at a price. But hey, nothing in this world is free. I don't necessarily think the new generation is greedy but more aware of our world and it's over population. The church sees this and consequently sees it's numbers dwindling and the corresponding lessening of funds thereof. IMHO it's simply simple economics....

Procreate, it's fun and great. But only do so, with a Church approved mate. Give generously when they pass the plate. Don't use birth control, or masturbate. Be in your pew, every Sunday morn. Don't lust, don't covet, or look at porn. But it's OK to view anothers faith with scorn..... Because other than God what they all have in common is the almighty buck. And every faith's God is the only true God. Again, all IMHO.
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 67
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 3:10:18 PM

Even Catholic priests take wives in Africa. There is societal pressure to have a wife, if you don't they are suspected of being gay or a pedo.


Right and thanks to those catholics if you happen to be born gay, there is a good chance you will be killed or imprisoned because of it.




If condoms were being used, HIV would not have attained the levels it has.

Back to the drawing board hfx.


Where did I make the claim that had anything to do with condom use?

I showed with facts that the catholic church is huge in Africa, which is in direct conflict with your claim.

So back to the derp board you go.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 68
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The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 4:22:49 PM
If not having children is selfish what is having children and managing your life so poorly that others have to provide for them...wreckless and irresponsable behavior is supremely selfish....this Pope seems to give a pass to those who contribute nothing while complaining that those who contribute are not doing enough.
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 69
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/18/2015 6:16:46 PM

If not having children is selfish what is having children and managing your life so poorly that others have to provide for them...


That is so right, because we know that people are poor by choice.

And sure the poor receive a lower standard of education which has a direct correlation with higher teen pregnancy rates and sure funding cuts to programs like planned parenthood also contribute to higher teen pregnancy rates and sure little to no factual based sex ed taught at a young enough age contribute to higher teen pregnancy rates, it is clearly their fault.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 70
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The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/19/2015 3:47:33 AM
Life is a collection of choices,only the profoundly ignorant fail to grasp that....or little rich boys who never had to make any choices good or bad.,why do you have the life you have and who made the choices that make it that way.
 midnite_icecream
Joined: 12/27/2014
Msg: 71
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/19/2015 4:02:15 AM
As I see it...In that case...
In bidding for a house you absolutely love, do you just drop out of the race because, oh, somebody else is keen on it despite that you can keep bidding up to a further 20 grand. Do you step aside for a job promotion for somebody else to take the position....
Selfishness is inherent in our DNA. Having a child or not is just one of many choices in life we make for ourselves. Adopting a child is a little less selfish perhaps, but then, you wouldn't do it if you didn't want a child.
In contrast, shelving dreams to have a child for whatever reason one might think is not right to have one, and having to live with that void..I could see that as selfless.. IE zero gain.
Degrees of selfishness in all of us. Yeah. Which makes us hypocritical to judge others.
[quotes]self-centered hedonism isn't in line with that religion's values.
^ Ha Ha, I accidentally typed 666. Ok, yep thats his point. And one could say the following demonstrates this...

and it will probably have little to no effect on the behaviour of anything but the most devout followers of Catholicism.

Hang on, Octomum already had 6 kids, so her "spawn" were already "littering" the gene pool. So all up she has 14 children. Carrying and birthing 8 babies is a bloody marvel I have to say.

Some of these girls get pregnant at ridiculously young ages and are typically praised and rewarded for being a [good] mother at such a young age.

Typically praised?? ^ Aren't you missing a word somewhere ^ (I inserted it for you). Or are you on about Govt handouts.
If a woman's decision to pop out a baby after 35 was dictated by having her career and personal life in order first, and she looked into the risks of birth defects, the calculated risk undertaken, IMO, mitigates her "selfishness".
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 72
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/19/2015 4:17:50 AM

Pope Francis said that couples who opt not to
have children are being "selfish" as
he spoke of a "greedy generation" that's
choosing not to procreate. The pontiff's remarks come just
weeks after he seemed to send a contradictory message, telling
Catholics that they don't need to breed "like rabbits."


Not sure why that's odd to you considering
the entire premise of religion is rooted in Hypocracy.

As for his statements about homosexuality
he isn't condoning it,he's insinuating that his "god"
Will judge that "abomination", not him.

But boy doesn't it seem like support?

Isn't worshipping the Pope akin to worshipping false gods?

He's just a man with power with an opinion which certainly
Doesn't give his opinion merrit because he's a pope
in my life!

I guess he's unaware of all the abandoned,abused,
unwanted and neglected children already in existance!

Selflessness is not procreating in an overpopulated world!
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 73
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/19/2015 4:32:57 AM
@hfx
Homophobia in Africa has nothing to do with Catholicism. It is ingrained in them due to typically Europeans that abused children.An uncategorized form of pedophilia,as far as I know that involves a victim of a different race.Priests have wives or women.Muslims have several,maybe Christians in Africa feel left out?African men are infamous for being polyamorous.Is that racist?Not sure,but HIV rates are through the roof and women are extremely vulnerable.The white mans religion has little impact on the African male.


@hearton

So westerners should have less children because third world countries produce too many babies?

 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 74
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/19/2015 5:10:06 AM

Homophobia in Africa has nothing to do with Catholicism. It is ingrained in them due to typically Europeans that abused children.An uncategorized form of pedophilia,as far as I know that involves a victim of a different race.


Nope, but thanks for playing "Things Cal knows nothing about"
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 75
The pope and so called selfish couples...
Posted: 2/19/2015 5:26:02 AM

So westerners should have less children because
third world countries produce too many babies?


I was including westerners in the world overpopulation problem.

And the pope should not be guilt tripping people
who chose not to procreate!

It's not his place to judge or condemn according to his religion.
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