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 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 326
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address CongressPage 14 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)
Cotter, Israel has had nukes for forty years now. I think they have shown some restraint about using them, don't you think? Not sure why all of a sudden you are concerned. Iran oto, threatens Israel with destruction and could use proxies to do it.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 327
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/6/2015 9:55:08 PM

You can't refute this so argue bullshit red herrings about lies to the un ad nauseum.

Yes... because we all JUST KNOW that recorded, public facts are... just "lies" and "red herrings"... when they are inconvenient to what you CHOOSE to believe...

You argue these bullshit side issues

Oh yes... because just EVERYONE knows that violating international law by... lying about Egypt attacking... maintaining the lie until caught in their bullsh!t... and then publicly bragging about how they "punked" everybody... is JUST a "side issue"...

Israel's expressed motivation... stated publicly by it's leaders... are JUST "side issues"...

NO MATTER how true and factual...

The only thing that matters is what you CHOOSE to believe... based on an illogical, irrational and unreasoned bias...

And that... Ladies and Gentleman... is how "true" history is to be written... Not how it actually was... but how it could have been... according to tallish at least...
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 328
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 4:37:46 AM

In June 1967 we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.

This was a war of self-defence in the noblest sense of the term. The government of national unity then established decided unanimously: We will take the initiative and attack the enemy, drive him back, and thus assure the security of Israel and the future of the nation.

We did not do this for lack of an alternative. We could have gone on waiting. We could have sent the army home. Who knows if there would have been an attack against us? There is no proof of it. There are several arguments to the contrary. While it is indeed true that the closing of the Straits of Tiran was an act of aggression, a causus belli, there is always room for a great deal of consideration as to whether it is necessary to make a causus into a bellum.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/mfadocuments/yearbook6/pages/55%20address%20by%20prime%20minister%20begin%20at%20the%20national.aspx


That being said, I will take some time this weekend to see if your sources are legitimate.

You know what... since I'm feeling just a little sorry for you... not being able to find anything but "anti-Israel" sites to confirm those quotes... and you don't seem to be prepared to actually look at the guys book... to see where he got his citation... I'm going to save you just a bit of trouble here...

I'm going to spoon-feed you again... Here is the link to the Le Monde archive... with the Peled article...

Le général Peled estime que les objecteurs de conscience devraient être exemptés du service militaire
LE MONDE | 19 juin 1972

Le général de réserve Matitiahou Peled, qui s'est rendu récemment célèbre en lançant la polémique sur le danger d'extermination qui pesait sur Israël à la veille de la guerre de six jours, estime, pour sa part, que le procès Neumann est une erreur. Il l'a dit dimanche, sur les ondes de...

http://www.lemonde.fr/recherche/?keywords=peled&page_num=18&operator=and&exclude_keywords=&qt=recherche_texte_titre&author=&period=since_1944&start_day=01&start_month=01&start_year=1944&end_day=08&end_month=08&end_year=2015&sort=desc

Of course... it IS in French... but then... you already KNEW it would be... since Le Monde is a French language newspaper... Oh, and you have to pay for a subscription to access their archives... in French...

And you DO understand... that NOT being able to read French... or being too cheap to pay for a subscription... does NOT rationally or logically... or even magically... change the fact into a lie...

Oh and here's a link to Maariv's on-line paper...

http://www.maariv.co.il/

I hope you read Hebrew... because that isn't a "magic excuse" either...

But I don't think it will help you much... The JP owns the archives for the old paper version... and they don't seem to want to put them on-line... considering they sued Adelson to keep them out of his hands... but you can look if you like...

And "Al-Hamishmar" folded before most people were putting their archives on-line...

That's the reality of the internet... not everything is on it... and that doesn't make those items invalid... even if you are just too lazy to do it "the old fashioned" way...

It just means you will have to go to a library or public archive to access them... And you'll still likely need to read French and Hebrew... since those are the languages they were printed in... And once again... not being able to do so is NOT a "magic excuse"...

You can thank me now... or admit that I was right and offer that apology you seemed to think I would owe you... or whatever you think will render your perspective more credible...
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 329
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 4:54:05 AM
While your're being so magnaminous, how about citing this supposed international law you keep mentioning supposedly violated by israel while it was defending itself from Arab attack, and just who has authority to decide Israel has no right to defend itself?

And let me get this straight, all of these suppose things that Israel did indicating it did not have the legitimacy of attacking the Arabs, you can not cite a legitimate, credible source such as The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Jerusalem Post, Wall Street Journal, to support what you say is absolute fact?

I mean that stuff just is not newsworthy right.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 330
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 4:59:09 AM

While your're being so magnaminous, how about citing this supposed international law you keep mentioning supposedly violated by israel

How about you apologize first... and admit I was right... seeing as you seemed SO certain I would owe you that apology... instead of trying to "change the point"... just because you've been shown to be wrong... and have no defense left for your claims...

Then we can proceed to other points... Or would that be too much like engaging in a rational, reasoned, logical discussion...?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 331
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 5:36:14 AM

you can not cite a legitimate, credible source such as The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Jerusalem Post, Wall Street Journal, to support what you say is absolute fact?

Do you mean to tell us that the world famous Le Monde... is NOT a legitimate and credible source...?

Are you telling us that Maariv... owned by the Jerusalem Post Group... is NOT a legitimate and credible source...?

Are you telling us that the only "legitimate and credible" sources are those you don't have to get off your butt and do some work... or pay a couple of bucks... for...?
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 332
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 9:43:57 AM
Funny how this huge news somehow escaped mainstream media attention, that tries to verify before publication. I'm sure it was all an oversight though.

I'm sure you are right. The Arab armies only pretended to mass their armies on Israel borders. It only pretended to close the Suez. It only pretended to threaten Israel with destruction. Israel only pretended to be acting in self defense, and since then, the Palestinian charter only pretends to call for Israel's destruction.

And according to the all knowing all seeing igor, Israel has only pretended to want peace, only pretended to offer the palestinians the west bank.

This all makes perfect sense. How could anybody doubt this, because, after all, you say it is true. How could Israel truly want peace? It is a joy to be in a constant state of war with your neighbors over 70 years.
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 333
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 9:55:20 AM
I see the factual thread about the palestinians rejecting all efforts at peace has been deleted. There are still mods here? The proven facts are deleted? Is the all knowing igor behind this? Is that how people win arguments here? They simple have deleted facts they can not rationally dispute?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 334
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 10:35:16 AM

Funny how this huge news somehow escaped mainstream media attention, that tries to verify before publication.

So... are you asserting that the world famous, internationally renowned and respected newspaper... Le Monde... DOESN'T "verify before publication"...?

Are you saying that the Jerusalem Post-owned Maariv... you did notice that said "Jerusalem Post"... one of the "legitimate and credible" papers you listed earlier... DOESN'T "verify before publication"...?

Those are some pretty tall accusations there... and tall accusations require tall proof...

So where is the "proof" of your accusations... Do you have any... or is this more of what you simply "choose to believe in defiance of fact"... because you keep getting your a$$ stomped off and handed back to you...?

Where is my apology...?
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 335
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 11:17:03 AM
Bull, because whatever Israel does or doesn't do, the spin weavers will go about lying and manipulating the facts. And you have the non-critical thinkers (igor et. al.) who accept these lies as gospel, despite their making no sense on their face. That's one thing I have learned here...how easy the masses are led to believe total bull dung. Then you have the other non-thinkers who allow propaganda to shape their opinions.

On this board of course, for the most part, the people posting have only a small understanding of the true facts and issues. These are the easiest people to manipulate.

I suppose in the end this is not surprising. Goebbel hypnotized an entire nation into buying in to hitlers evil. Otherwise intelligent people were convinced the murder of so many was perfectly acceptable.

So the fact the ignorant, misinformed, or non critical thinkers here buy into the B.S. lies about israel really should be expected. So am I surprised you buy into the nonsensical story that Israel was not defending itself in 67? Yes I am surprised. But I shouldn't be.

In my career, I learned long ago how easy it is to manipulate people. And when you are already biased in one direction. Being manipulated further in that direction is unfortunately expected. I am always disappointed how easily the sheep are led astray, but it is a fact of life. Tell a lie and keep repeating. Sooner or later most people are fooled.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 336
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 11:47:49 AM

how easy the masses are led to believe total bull dung. Then you have the other non-thinkers who allow propaganda to shape their opinions.


The irony... It burns...! IT BURNS...!!!

Are anti-Zionists also anti-Semitic?

Oh... and just so you know... because I know you are confused about this... You didn't "let me draw off" your point in this debate... you never stood a chance because you were never in control of the conversation... You did exactly what I wanted you to do in exactly the order I wanted you to do it... I got you to prove your own lack of knowledge and understanding for me... while I led you around by the nose doing it...

What was my original question...? Wasn't it something about Israeli settler terrorists...?

Do you actually believe that my "off the cuff"... "random comment"... about "losing moral authority in '67"... was truly "off the cuff" and "random"...?

Or do you think it might have been purposely intended to draw you into a debate that I ALREADY KNEW would reveal your narrow-minded, uninformed ignorance... in blazing "technicolor"... and shoot your disgustingly bigoted "Jewish Supremacist" nonsense down in flames...?
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 337
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 12:52:11 PM
You are too clever for me. You had me actually believing you were stupid enough to believe the garbage you were saying about the 67 war. Now you admit it was a lie to test me. My bad. Lol.

So you are admitting I was right all along and you are not that stupid. Glad to hear it. But yea, there is lots of antisemitic dung out there arguing Israel started the 67 war. So it was easy for me to believe you believed it also.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 338
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 1:13:23 PM

Now you admit it was a lie to test me. My bad. Lol.

So you are admitting I was right all along and you are not that stupid.


That is so fvcking hilarious... Can't even admit the truth... Can't even admit to being wrong... even after completely and thoroughly humiliating yourself... and being led to do it by a "liberal"...

Will you ever be able to hold your head up among the bigots... among the uninformed... again...? Let's just hope they don't ever find this thread... for your sake...

You got "owned" by a "liberal"... on the facts and the facts alone... because you couldn't even manage your own argument... but let a "liberal" do it for you...

You couldn't dispute one fact I posted... couldn't even find the original sources on your own without my help...

And I know you know that I had those original source links all along... I could have given them to you at any time... but it was much more interesting... and much more effective... to let you prove what you don't know or understand... and illustrate your bias and bigotry in the process..


I certainly hope you have actually learned something after all this... for your sake... but I certainly doubt it... and, of course... the point wasn't actually for YOU to learn something... people like you are beyond redemption... the point was to expose the bullsh!t for everyone else to see... so they don't get sucked into it...
 shirleywonton01
Joined: 4/30/2015
Msg: 339
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 1:44:30 PM
Well isn't this apropos, a lovely analogy of the greater conflict. A Jew and an Arab both selfishly dominating this thread by insulting any other posters who have input, as they piss and moan at each other. One pot shot after another.

Neither able to rise to the occasion.....ever.
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 340
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 4:40:20 PM
Well crazy shirley, you may well be right about mungo. The man is somewhat deranged.

You know mungo....I was told you were a good guy and a quiet guy. And I thought you were backing off in your vitriolic tone and so i tried to back offself. But I think you have proven there is something wrong with you. You have a child's mind and a narcissist's viewpoint of yourself.

I do want to thank you. It has been a very, very long time since I waded into an Arab... Israeli debate, primarily because I concluded people who thought like you and cotter were absolutely nuts and way too opinionated to consider the bigger picture. And I have not researched these issues for a long time...content I knew the true facts and that, as evidenced on this thread, most were too ignorant to intelligently argue the issues.

You had reminded me that you nut cases actually do blame Israel for starting the 67 war. And I saw a lot of garbage on the Web revising history and claiming what you claimed. You didn't just pull that crap out of your ass. It's out there..and people like you and cotter buy into it. And that is incredible to me. You guys believe anything that supports your hatred. It doesn't matter how far out there.

And that is why I support Israel so strongly. I know how stupid, or ignorant or both so many of your ilk are. I know how easily you buy into the lies. I see the ignorance even from some here who probably consider themselves fairminded. There is no propaganda, no lie, no scam, no misinformation you and your ilk do not buy into and then try to sell to other people. So why should I have doubted you didn't believe your own story. I'm guessing you do believe it still
That's how nuts I think you are.

So I support Israel precisely because your kind exists. We can't wipe your kind of stupidity out. It is far too common. But together we can stand strong and outsmart and defeat any enemy. And that is the whole point of israel.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 341
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 4:58:32 PM
darn, the other post came down? I didn't get to see any responses to those who googled "Olmert map", saw a proposed territory shaped like a dumbbell and decided how to defend two countries militarily. I don't think the Israelis w0uld have agreed to a country that was in two pieces with a narrow corridor connecting two separate countries into one. too easily to snip supply lines.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 342
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 5:10:26 PM

You have a child's mind


Says the poster who stamps his feet and shouts "I don't care what the facts are, I don't care what reality is, I've made up my mind and you can't change it with either"...

I didn't get to see any responses to those who googled "Olmert map"

I know... I had just typed out a reply to that... and poof... no posting... no thread...
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 343
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 5:23:24 PM
I suppose Mustang the thread was considered redundant. I intend to revive it again under this thread. I have not had an opportunity to look at the map you were re32ferring to, do not know its source, but I do know factually virtually the entire West Bank was offered to arafat for guaranteed secure peace .

And I don't recall everything Igor said, but I do know I shook my head with his abject ignorance when he said Israel was only pretending to negotiate. Just another know nothing who comes across on these threads as somebody who thinks he knows everything.

Don't worry mung hole, you and Igor will have an opportunity to pretend that isreal only pretends it wants peace and that isreall started all of the wars and illegally occupies Arab land. And you will have all kinds of citations in Swahili proving your assertions lol
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 344
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 5:59:22 PM

And I don't recall everything Igor said, but I do know I shook my head with his abject ignorance when he said Israel was only pretending to negotiate. Just another know nothing who comes across on these threads as somebody who thinks he knows everything.


Do you really think you will be able to suck Igor into your game... with insults and silliness...? Igor...? Seriously...?

I only do it for the opportunity to kick the butts of bigots around the block a few times...? Just for being bigots... but I guess you are tired of my shoe print on your a$$...

Do you figure Igor is "easier pickings"...? And maybe... just maybe... you can regain a shred of credibility...?

Good luck with that....

And you will have all kinds of citations in Swahili proving your assertions

Ah... so that's another language you don't know how to read... and are too lazy and/or cheap to get translated... Good to know... That's helpful...
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 345
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 7:18:32 PM
Igor was already sucked in and took a position. You saying the know it all won't proclaim his vast knowledge of the Mideast issues?

Bigot? Look in the mirror. Wait . . . I know. you deny you are a bigot. You love Jews. You just hate Israelis. Your best friends are Jews and they hate Israel also. Do I have that right?
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 346
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 9:10:34 PM
Palestinians Rejected Statehood Three Times, Claim Frustration -- with Israel

Here are the facts :

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=83&x_article=2116
. . .

. The legendary Israeli diplomat Abba Eban once said about relations between the Arabs and Israel, "The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity," and there have been many statehood opportunities that Palestinian leaders have wilfully missed. . .

In accord with this, at least three times the Palestinians have refused statehood when it was offered to them, most recently just a few years ago. Here are the details:

1. In 2008, after extensive talks, then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert met with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and presented a comprehensive peace plan. Olmert's plan would have annexed the major Israeli settlements to Israel and in return given equivalent Israeli territory to the Palestinians, and would have divided Jerusalem.

Numerous settlements including Ofra, Elon Moreh, Beit El and Kiryat Arba would have been evacuated, and Hebron would have been abandoned. Tens of thousands of settlers would have been uprooted. Olmert even says preliminary agreement had been reached with Abbas on refugees and the Palestinian claim to a "right of return." .

Abbas turned it down. "The gaps were wide," he said. (May 29, 2009)



In the summer of 2000 US President Bill Clinton hosted intense peace talks at Camp David between Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat and Israeli leader Ehud Barak, culminating in a comprehensive peace plan known as the Clinton Parameters, which was similar to the later Olmert Plan, though not quite as extensive.

Despite the vast concessions the plan required of Israel, Prime Minister Barak accepted President Clinton's proposal, while Arafat refused, returned home, and launched a new terror campaign against Israeli civilians (the Second Intifada).



3. UN Resolution 181, the Partition Resolution, passed in November 1947, called for the creation of a Jewish state and an Arab state in the land which at that point was controlled by the British-run Palestine Mandate. All the Arab countries opposed the resolution, voted against it, and promised to go to war to prevent its implementation. Representing the Palestinians, the Arab Higher Committee also opposed the plan and threatened war, while the Jewish Agency, representing the Jewish inhabitants of the Palestine Mandate, supported the plan.

The Arabs and the Palestinians were true to their word and did launch a war against the Jews of Palestine, violating both Resolution 181 and the UN Charter. Much to the surprise of the Arab side, the Jews were able to survive the initial onslaughts and eventually win the war.

The fundamental fact remains that had the Arabs and the Palestinians accepted the Partition Resolution and not violated the UN Charter by attacking Israel, there would be a 63-year-old Palestinian state today next to Israel, and there would not have been a single Palestinian refugee.
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 347
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 9:30:16 PM
And then you have the never ending lies online. One website after the other. For example, this one is identical to what Munghole used for his arguments:

http://www.alanhart.net/the-lies-about-the-1967-war-are-still-more-powerful-than-the-truth-2/


The Jews of the world (and Israeli Jews) could not be blamed for believing that, but it was a big, fat propaganda lie. Though Egypt’s President Nasser had asked UNEF forces to withdraw, had closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and had reinforced his army in the Sinai, neither his Egypt nor any of the frontline Arab states had any intention of attacking Israel. And Israel’s leaders, and the Johnson administration, knew that.


It would not be possible to count the number of hate mongering sites out there. One after the other. Israel must be the most villified nation on earth. No matter what happens there, people will spin the facts as much as possible to make Israel the bad guy.

Are Munghole and Cotter simply dupes because they read the lies, believe them and than parrot them here. Maybe I should not blame them for not have the critical thinking skills to challenge the endless lies, one after another????

It has been so long that I looked at this stuff, I had forgotten how absolutely crazy people are out there and how easily brainwashed.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 348
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 9:44:32 PM

identical to what Munghole


dupes because they read the lies, believe them and than parrot them here. Maybe I should not blame them for not have the critical thinking skills to challenge the endless lies, one after another


Are Munghole and Cotter

*sings*

I beat you!

I beat you!

I kicked your a$$ and beat you!
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 349
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 9:58:24 PM

sings*

I beat you!

I beat you!

I kicked your a$$ and beat you!


LOL. You copied arguments from hate websites and somehow you beat me? How do you figure?. You beat me at what All you proved is you have no originality . . you have no critical thinking abilities, you rely on others to create your hate for you. You still have never proven there is any validity whatsoever behind the hate. Heck, even your french quotes are nonsensical when translated.

If your students plagiarized the way you plagiarize, do you give the grade they deserve . . . An F????

Are all of your other posts plagiarized too? Shoot, if I google your putdowns, will they show up on another website LOLOLOL.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 350
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/7/2015 10:05:30 PM

If your students plagiarized the way you plagiarize, do you give the grade they deserve . . . An F????

Are all of your other posts plagiarized too? Shoot, if I google your putdowns, will they show up on another website

*sings* (to be sung: voce arrogante)

I beat you

I beat you

I kicked your a$$ and beat you
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