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 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 351
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address CongressPage 15 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)
^^^^^^^LOL. you are a child. No wonder so many people here think you are loser or ignore you

I double dare you to prove you "beat me" ROFLMAO

LOLOLOL LOLOL
LOLOLOL LOLOL

LOLOLOL LOLOL
LOLOLOL LOLOL


LOLOLOL LOLOL
LOLOLOL LOLOL
 11qq
Joined: 7/17/2015
Msg: 352
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/8/2015 6:47:54 AM
The former first lady was with Kim Kardashian and Kanye West while the most watched debate in the history of this country was aired on FOX. She was taking selfies with the two clowns.

Very presidential.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 353
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/8/2015 10:42:10 AM

^^^^^^^LOL. you are a child. No wonder so many people here think you are loser or ignore you

I double dare you to prove you "beat me" ROFLMAO

*sings* (to the tune of: The Mickey Mouse March Start from second verse)

Who’s the one who kicked your a$$ from here to kingdom come?
M-U-N--
G-O-J--
O E kicked your a$$!

Mungo Joe
Mungo Joe
Forever let us hold his name up high!
{High, High, High)
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 354
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/8/2015 11:15:33 AM
^^^^^ Is this all that is left of you after having been shown to plagiarize other websites without giving them acknowledgement by reference? This is it after it it became evident you have no original thoughts to provide us? This is it, an even dumber caricature of how you previously presented yourself?

Really . . . . this is it? This is you? You can't win so you take your ball and go home?

Its a shame Munghole, I thought we were just getting started. I thought you would be a challenge.

Instead you are not up for the task. You have withered away like the Wicked Witch

Childish insults and pretend wins . . . that's all you are.

Pity. You are a shadow of what I was hoping you would be. I was asking for way too much.

Should I dear have any more hope that Cotter is better than you?

If you ever have another non-original argument, let me know so I can take you down once more.

And by the way, if you ever can ever provide legitimate authority that Israel started the 67 war by citing a legitimate source, let me know that too. Try to reclaim some of your credibility if possible :-)

 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 355
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/8/2015 11:52:42 AM

^^^^^ Is this all that is left of you after having been shown to plagiarize other websites without giving them acknowledgement by reference? This is it after it it became evident you have no original thoughts to provide us? This is it, an even dumber caricature of how you previously presented yourself?

Really . . . . this is it? This is you? You can't win so you take your ball and go home?

Its a shame Munghole, I thought we were just getting started. I thought you would be a challenge.

Instead you are not up for the task. You have withered away like the Wicked Witch

Childish insults and pretend wins . . . that's all you are.

*sings (tune of Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star)

Mungo joe, he kicked your a$$
Kicked it hard and kicked it fast

Kicked it good and kicked it far
Kicked it like a soccer star

Mungo joe, he kicked your your a$$
Kicked it hard and... that's... a... fact!
 11qq
Joined: 7/17/2015
Msg: 356
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/8/2015 12:34:04 PM
skoochie,

you can't use the tanning bed ridicule anymore. I sold my tanning salon in 2011. I sold my painting company in 2014. I sold my asphalt driveway sealcoating business in 2014. I sold my apartment buildings way back in 2003. I sold my house pressure washing and roof stain removal business in 2013. I sold everything including my Ohio home (remember how Irish used to say it was my mother's?). oh those were the days.

I live in a tropical cottage now in Clearwater right in the middle of the action. I just tan outside at the pool while I sip a rum smoothie. the Gulf Of Mexico is 10 minutes away and Tampa Bay about the same. Hulk Hogan lives just a few blocks away.

at JD's on the Gulf the dance bands start at one in the afternoon and they go on all day and into the night, band after band outside on the covered deck. the girls here are educated and incredibly beautiful and because it's so hot they wear skimpy outfits.

I have tickets on the 50 yard line for the Cleveland Browns-Tampa Bay Bucs game on Aug 29th. I watch the Rays at Tropicana on a regular basis and have tickets for the Yankees game coming in September right near their dugout.

i'm really hoping that VP Joe Biden enters the race. now that Sanders is catching up and the former first lady's numbers are falling, Uncle Joe has a real shot at this.

JOE BIDEN HAS 10 TIMES MORE EXPERIENCE THAN HILLARY AND
1000 TIMES MORE EXPERIENCE THAN THE FIRST CLOWN.

Chuck U Schumer (a leading Dem) and another Dem have decided not to approve the Iranian Deal.
I guess this makes both of them the same as those who chant DEATH TO AMERICA as the First Clown says.

remember what I always say about the Kardashian Society?
Hillary met the President of it while the debate was going on!!!!!
seriously??? with Kanye who the First Clown called a jackass??? ho ho ho

what a bunch of buffoons you back!!! ha ha ha whoot whoot!!!!
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 357
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/8/2015 12:36:50 PM
^^^^^ does this mean this is no longer the Tallish and Munghole show? LOL.

By the way, I note I have to post more than a few sentences or the system will not let me post because of more than 2 messages in the last ten. Not sure what this is all about.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 358
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/8/2015 1:01:34 PM

you can't use the tanning bed ridicule anymore.

Of course he can... Same as we can still use the "leprechaun"... the "fake hairline"... and the "Joan Rivers facelift" comments...

Do you honestly think your braggadocio limits the failings we are "permitted" to point out...? Where did you ever get that idea...?

JOE BIDEN HAS 10 TIMES MORE EXPERIENCE THAN HILLARY AND
1000 TIMES MORE EXPERIENCE THAN THE FIRST CLOWN.

Chuck U Schumer (a leading Dem) and another Dem have decided not to approve the Iranian Deal.
I guess this makes both of them the same as those who chant DEATH TO AMERICA as the First Clown says.

remember what I always say about the Kardashian Society?
Hillary met the President of it while the debate was going on!!!!!
seriously??? with Kanye who the First Clown called a jackass??? ho ho ho

what a bunch of buffoons you back!!! ha ha ha whoot whoot!!!!


"Mungo's rules: Whenever a liberal insults a conservative, he says things which conservatives find insulting. Whenever a conservative insults a liberal, he says things which conservatives find insulting."

Why does it not surprise me... that you still don't understand the point of that...?

^^^^^ does this mean this is no longer the Tallish and Munghole show? LOL.

*The crowd shouts "encore, encore"... which... of course... Mungojoe happily provides...*

*sings* (to the tune of: The Mickey Mouse March Start from second verse)

Who’s the one who kicked your a$$ from here to kingdom come?
M-U-N--
G-O-J--
O E kicked your a$$!

Mungo Joe
Mungo Joe
Forever let us hold his name up high!
{High, High, High)
 11qq
Joined: 7/17/2015
Msg: 359
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/8/2015 3:32:54 PM
MIGHTY MOUSE THEME SONG
(Philip Scheib / Marshall Barer) - circa 1955


Mr. trouble never hangs around,
when he hears this Mighty sound,

Here I come to save the day!
That means that Mighty Mouse is on the way!

Yes sir, when there is a wrong to right,
Mighty Mouse will join the fight!

On the sea or on the land,
He's got the situation well in hand!

We know that when there's danger, we'll never dispair;
Because we know that when there's danger he is there...
On the land on the sea in the air.

We're not worrying at all
We just listen for his call
"Here I come to save the day!"
That means that Mighty Mouse is on the way.

When there is a wrong to right,
Mighty Mouse will joint the fight
"Here I come to save the day!"
That means that Mighty Mouse is on the way!

THAT'S ME! MIGHTY MOUSE!!! yay
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 360
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/8/2015 4:12:13 PM

MIGHTY MOUSE THEME SONG
(Philip Scheib / Marshall Barer) - circa 1955

Yeah... about that...

Clearly... you missed the bulk of the point... again... This is becoming a habit...

Here's a little story to mull over... Maybe you will get it after... But I'm not holding my breath (disappointed?)...

Once, Mullah Nasruddin was called upon to preach a sermon. From the pulpit, he asked the congregation: "Do you know what I am going to preach about?"
"No!" they replied. "In that case," said the Mullah, "it would take too long to explain." And he went home.

Next day he ascended the pulpit and asked the same question: "Do you know what I am going to preach about?"
"Yes," the people said this time, determined to put him on the spot. "In that case," said Nasruddin, "there is no need for me to say more." And he went home.

Yet again the following day he put the same question. "Do you know what I am going to preach about?" But now the congregation was ready to corner him. "Some of us do and some of us don't," they answered. "In that case," said Nasruddin, "let those who know tell those who don't."

 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 361
view profile
History
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/8/2015 4:32:39 PM
Netanyahu manages to sneak past Israelis the right to jail them without proof AND gain support from those that know he is a war criminal or are on the fence about it simply by FINALLY agreeing to charge an Israelis terrorist.

And people are applauding this? The prick should be jailed himself. Settling for anything less is setting themselves up to be jailed without proof of a crime.

Are they that dumb to think that if they ever try to stop Nat's war plan or rally against Israeli expansion that THEY won't be the next ones in jail?

It all looks "good" on the surface but when you dig deeper and realise the power over the citizen's this decision gives...

Now the father died so look out for a public spectacle of "justice served".

Oh and don't forget to forget about all those innocent others who were killed by the soldiers on orders.

The terrorists that should be in jail first are the commanders. Killing or jailing a couple of "rough" extremists isn't going to change things for the better, although it will just give Nat a pat on the back by idiots who don't/can't think of the consequences and/or end game.

These extremists should be jailed but being able to jail people without trial doesn't help anyone's cause but the war mongering "rulers".
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 362
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/9/2015 2:22:21 PM
^^^^ Your post above is too rambling to make much sense of it, but I did catch this:


Are they that dumb to think that if they ever try to stop Nat's war plan or rally against Israeli expansion that THEY won't be the next ones in jail?


I hate to say this, but despite the blatant lies from Cotter, munghole, et. al. on this board, Israel is a Democracy and like the United States a strong believer in the rule of law. Netanyahu is not a "dictator" as you seem to indicate. He is not King. He is not the sovereign. He is merely the elected Prime Minister of Israel. He is subject to Israeli law like any others.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 363
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/9/2015 6:17:43 PM

I hate to say this, but despite the blatant lies from Cotter, munghole, et. al. on this board,

Well... well... well...

It looks like demand is SO high that we need to add a second show... If the demand keeps up like this... I may have to develop some new numbers... maybe throw in a little tap dancing or something...

*sings* (to the tune of: The Mickey Mouse March Start from second verse)

Who’s the one who kicked your a$$ from here to kingdom come?
M-U-N--
G-O-J--
O E kicked your a$$!

Mungo Joe
Mungo Joe
Forever let us hold his name up high!
{High, High, High)


*sings (tune of Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star)

Mungo joe, he kicked your a$$
Kicked it hard and kicked it fast

Kicked it good and kicked it far
Kicked it like a soccer star

Mungo joe, he kicked your your a$$
Kicked it hard and... that's... a... fact!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 364
view profile
History
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/9/2015 7:01:58 PM
Message 369 ...
... despite the blatant lies from Cotter ...
First of all, the majority of everyone posting in this thread is more than capable of checking the links that I provide and deciding for themselves whether or not I post "lies". Do you not have any faith in their ability to make those decisions on their own? That's actually an insult to them that you feel so compelled to keep coming in here and making such statements. How dumb do you think they are?


Israel is a Democracy ...
You keep writing that but I don't understand. Palestinians have no right to vote for the Israeli government even though it controls their lives. How is that a democracy? Israel controls all Palestinian borders, all imports and exports, and all movement between towns and cities. How is that a democracy?

He is merely the elected Prime Minister of Israel.
... who swore there would never be a 2 state solution. He has no intention of changing the situation over there which basically allows Zionist Israelis to continue to murder Palestinians and then steal their land.

You keep writing about him in such an endearing way ... but clearly he is not a nice guy!
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 365
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/10/2015 7:17:52 AM
^^^^ I didn't see you posting links, but even if you did, there are hundreds of hate Israel cites out there to link to if that is what you choose to do.

No, I don't have any faith in people to see the truth. When a lie is told often enough, most people believe it. Look at this Munghole crap he plagiarized from other web sites about Israel starting the 67 war. People will believe anything . . . . anything . . . . no matter how ludicrous on its face. Arab armies massing on the border, closing the straights, cutting off the suez, sayin g the destruction of Israel is soon . . . but it was all "make pretend". Most people are very easily swayed by propaganda and bullsh*t, and the internet is filled with it.

All citizens of Israel have the right to vote, to serve in the government, even the Knesset or Israeli Congress . . . including Arabs . . . as many have. The palestinian arabs living in the occupied territories ARE NOT citizens of Israel and want to see Israel destroyed. You are suggesting these people should have the right to vote? Really? How about their changing their charter first and recognizing Israel's right to exist?



who swore there would never be a 2 state solution


Well he did reportedly say something like that didn't he . . . god bless him, and poor Obama got all upset.. Netanyahu will not cow tow to the pressures from anybody else if he knows the results will be another front to commit war against Israel. Remember that the Arabs turned down 98% of the West Bank for a peace deal with security. And one of the things they had to do was recognize Israel's right to exist. And they wouldn't do it. So why should Israel agree to something that will be used against them to commit more terror and war? Can you maybe explain that to me?


"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that any evacuated territory would fall into the hands of Islamic extremism and terror organizations supported by Iran


Seems reasonable to me under the current state of affairs. Of course, this is just a negotiating position in the end . . . if there ever is any true negotiation.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 366
view profile
History
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/10/2015 7:42:52 AM
Hmmm ... here we go again!

Recall … we have the incident from July 31st in the central West Bank village of Duma …
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/07/palestinian-toddler-settler
Palestinian toddler killed in settler price-tag attack

Outside of Dawabsha’s home, the arsonists spray painted a star of David and “revenge” in Hebrew, signifying the killing was a “price tag” attack, in which Israeli settlers seek retaliation for government demolitions of settlements by committing acts of violence against Palestinians. Earlier this week Israel demolished structures in the West Bank settlement of Beit El outside of Ramallah, clashing with hundreds of right-wing protesters during the leveling.


And … the attacks continue …
http://www.albawaba.com/news/israeli-extremists-attack-another-palestinian-home-duma-728552

Israeli extremists attack another Palestinian home in Duma

Israeli settlers on Saturday morning attacked a Palestinian home with firebombs and rocks in the West Bank village of Duma, little more than a week after an 18-month-old Palestinian toddler and his father were killed in a deadly attack in the same village.

Ghassan Daghlas, who monitors settler activities in the northern West Bank, told Ma’an that "a number of extremist settlers hurled two fire bombs at the home of Mahmoud Fazza al-Kaabna."


Apparently, this time it was Israeli settlers backed by army soldiers who attacked the Palestinians http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/01/04/391498/Israeli-settlers-attack-Palestinians-
The armed settlers set a car ablaze and opened live fire at the villagers.

The settlers, mostly armed, regularly attack Palestinian villages and farms and set fire to their mosques, olive groves and other properties in the West Bank under the so-called “rice tag” policy. However, Tel Aviv rarely detains the assailants.

Price tag attacks are acts of vandalism and violence against Palestinians and their property as well as Islamic holy sites by Israeli settlers.


So now to add insult to murder (not just injury) ...
http://www.albawaba.com/news/israel-frees-suspects-linked-palestinian-toddlers-death-729012
Israel has released all suspects held in connection with the firebombing of a Palestinian home that killed an 18-month-old baby and his father.


In spite of all that …
http://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/palestinians-protect-israeli-policewoman-727944
These Palestinians protected an Israeli policewoman from rocks thrown by settlers

A striking photo has surfaced online of two Palestinian men reportedly shielding an Israeli policewoman while being pelted with rocks being thrown by Israeli settlers.


Who wants peace ... again ...?

Certainly not Nuttinbutayahoo. He’ll do NOTHING but antagonize the whole situation. The greed of the Zionists.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 367
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/10/2015 10:49:59 AM

Look at this Munghole crap he plagiarized from other web sites about Israel starting the 67 war.

OK... clearly I am going to have to develop some new numbers... Nothing to stop me from adding a little impromptu tap dancing... right now...

*sings (tune of Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star)

Mungo joe, he kicked your a$$
Kicked it hard and kicked it fast

Kicked it good and kicked it far
Kicked it like a soccer star

Mungo joe, he kicked your your a$$
Kicked it hard and... that's... a... fact!


*dances*
tap-slide-shuffle... tap-slide shuffle...
tappity-tappity-tappity-tappity-tappity-tappity (a "buck and wing" in case you were wondering)...
tap-slide-shuffle... tap-slide shuffle...

*sings* (to the tune of: The Mickey Mouse March Start from second verse)

Who’s the one who kicked your a$$ from here to kingdom come?
M-U-N--
G-O-J--
O E kicked your a$$!

Mungo Joe
Mungo Joe
Forever let us hold his name up high!
{High, High, High)


Did you like how I "switched up the order there... And how about my tap number...?
 congupnaroad
Joined: 7/22/2015
Msg: 368
view profile
History
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/11/2015 4:58:01 AM

Message 369 ...
... despite the blatant lies from Cotter ...
First of all, the majority of everyone posting in this thread is more than capable of checking the links that I provide and deciding for themselves whether or not I post "lies". Do you not have any faith in their ability to make those decisions on their own? That's actually an insult to them that you feel so compelled to keep coming in here and making such statements. How dumb do you think they are?


Israel is a Democracy ...
You keep writing that but I don't understand. Palestinians have no right to vote for the Israeli government even though it controls their lives. How is that a democracy? Israel controls all Palestinian borders, all imports and exports, and all movement between towns and cities. How is that a democracy?

He is merely the elected Prime Minister of Israel.
... who swore there would never be a 2 state solution. He has no intention of changing the situation over there which basically allows Zionist Israelis to continue to murder Palestinians and then steal their land.

You keep writing about him in such an endearing way ... but clearly he is not a nice guy!


How come you hate Jews so much? How come you only only reference BS from SEAMAC and albawaba who are renowned anti-Semites!
 perfectlyfrank2323
Joined: 7/29/2015
Msg: 369
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/11/2015 6:59:38 AM
Tallish here.......yes incapable of a reasoned and balanced view. They don't admit they are antisemites, but you can't separate the two. Anybody who has an issue with Israel defending itself is an anti-semite, and no matter how hard I tried, neither cotter nor munghole would concede Israel has the right to exist let alone defend itself. And all of the jews they know hate Israel too. . or so they say.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 370
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 8/11/2015 12:58:16 PM

munghole would concede Israel has the right to exist let alone defend itself.

Sorry... haven't been bothered with new numbers yet... but I know you love an encore... so here it is...

*sings (tune of Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star)

Mungo joe, he kicked your a$$
Kicked it hard and kicked it fast

Kicked it good and kicked it far
Kicked it like a soccer star

Mungo joe, he kicked your your a$$
Kicked it hard and... that's... a... fact!


*dances*
tap-slide-shuffle... tap-slide shuffle...
tappity-tappity-tappity-tappity-tappity-tappity (a "buck and wing", again)...
tap-slide-shuffle... tap-slide shuffle...

*sings* (to the tune of: The Mickey Mouse March Start from second verse)

Who’s the one who kicked your a$$ from here to kingdom come?
M-U-N--
G-O-J--
O E kicked your a$$!

Mungo Joe
Mungo Joe
Forever let us hold his name up high!
{High, High, High)


You still haven't said what you think of the "tap dance"...
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 371
view profile
History
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 11/9/2015 10:38:27 AM
Well, well well ... I see nuttinbutayahoo is back ... asking for still more money.

Today's meeting was supposed to focus on the need to have a two-state solution along with Israel's supposed "security" ... once the Iran deal is in place.

So far all he's done is ask for still more money ... and no mention of any kind of "two-state" solution. Of course, why should he talk about that after he promised the Israelis he'd never allow it?
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 372
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 12/28/2016 6:37:41 AM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-postpones-approval-of-new-settlement-construction-amid-spat-with-us/ar-BBxCU5h?li=BBnb7Kz

This ^in the wake of the recent UN resolution voting (in which the US abstained) that condemned Israel for extending settlements in E Jerusalem & the WB, citing a hindrance to the "2 state" solution, which has been stalled by both sides over the years.

The Israel PM (BN), is greatly upset at the US for he sees as a "betrayal"from Obama, yet did not seem to realize that the speech he gave to the US congress (at the invitation of the GOP)regarding the Iran nuclear deal, was equally upsetting to Obama.

It is clear that BN is quite arrogant in his expectations, and is probably hoping that Trump will undo Obama's decision, but has suspended new construction as noted above. Lets see whether Trump has any "spine" in dealing with BN.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 373
view profile
History
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 12/28/2016 7:37:11 AM
Message 379 ...
yule ...
... is probably hoping that Trump will undo Obama's decision ...

I believe that is the expectation.

Jewish settlements in predominantly Palestinian areas (and as well, the international community regards East Jerusalem part of the Palestinian territories) is probably not a good idea. No matter, the Zionists just won't stop until they take it all and run the Palestinians off ... or simply kill them all.

Neither Nuttinbutayahoo nor the zionists ever intend to leave any land for the Palestinians. But that's really nothing new.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 374
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 12/31/2016 5:50:38 AM
You never know. Maybe it is show to keep certain people quiet.

As I previously said, if what Trump is saying (sort of but not definitely) about Israel is truly his position going forward, it will be his undoing.


I tend to think NOW that Trump knows that if he says ANYTHING against Israel, he can be destroyed before entering office.
The whining of leftists would be child's play by comparison.

See Arsenio Hall, Bill Maher, Bush the First., Stephen Salaita, etc. ,
-all destroyed at one point for saying something interpreted as anti-Israel.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 375
PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress
Posted: 1/4/2017 10:13:21 AM
ah well, now Bibi has a classic politician problem

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/03/world/middleeast/israel-netanyahu-graft-investigation.html

Pity he wasn't a House Republican, he could have just voted to get rid of the independent group overseeing his ethics.

oh wait, that must be what Republicans meant when they said they were going to make America Great Again. They really didn't specify "for who"....oh well, their own supporters spoke up over it, and now they'll have to kick the can down the road and try again some late Monday night in the future....
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