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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?      Home login  
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 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 26
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

Nobody yet has managed to say exactly what would constitute a "fair share", perhaps you can fill us in?


I think you meant to say, no one on Fox has told you yet.




The top segment of our population pays everybody's income taxes and then some. But that's not enough, is it?


The top segment pays less in taxes (as a % of income) than the rest of the population.




http://taxfoundation.org/article/distribution-tax-and-spending-policies-united-states


Aww how cute, you are quoting a conservative think tank who like to use "fuzzy math"

Stocks, Flows, and Fuzzy Math
October 11, 2011 10:09 am

I read David Brooks citing the Tax Foundation this morning, and I thought he must have misread them. They couldn’t possibly have compared one year’s take from higher taxes on the rich with the total stock of debt, could they? They can’t possibly be that stupid, or think that their readers are that stupid, can they?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/stocks-flows-and-fuzzy-math/?_r=0
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 27
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NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/14/2015 8:20:47 AM
#34, you're welcome. A laugh is a good thing. Glad I could help.

And, since you are such a faithful defender of the rich and hate to see them paying too much in taxes I can only assume you must be one of them. Congratulations to you.

And what is their fair share?? Well, since they have bought most of the legislators that write our tax laws I'd say less proportionally than I do. He who writes the laws can do so without having to heed them. Plus, you can add loopholes to make it even easier to offshore your wealth. Just as your last Presidential candidate Mitt Romney did. All perfectly legal because you've had a hand in crafting the laws. When it's all said and done, and on paper it probably looks like they're poor.... But we know better, don't we?

And I have'nt been out to rent a movie since netflix and other streaming media took over the industry. Have'nt bought Kodak film since digital cameras came into vogue. Circuit City could'nt take the competition from other retailers like best buy and Pontiac got absorbed into GM which is now doing well even in spite of their nasty habit of engaging in stock buybacks. What is your point? Is'nt this just part of a healthy free market economy? Is'nt this just what you R's say should happen in our economy?

And, I think it's wonderful that these companies that are left are thriving since President Barack Obama was elected. It'd be even better if they'd now start paying their fair share in taxes and give back to those who made them profitable.
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 28
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/14/2015 10:11:14 AM
Does the 1% (debatable) chance we'll discover a colonizable planet make it worth while for our descendants?

As much as I like Star Trek and the probable new technologies that will result from pursuing the exploration of space, this is the only reason that makes sense to me.

I guess a bigger question is just how much are you willing to invest in a future you won't exist in?
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 29
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/14/2015 1:54:15 PM
"But we know better, don't we?"
I'm sure you do, so maybe you can answer this for me. When all those people at the bottom of the economic ladder rock their babies to sleep at night, do they read them bedtime stories and tell them that "Someday we hope you grow up to be just as poor and unsuccessful as we are?
Or do parents hope their children lead better more productive lives, so they can have the good things in life?
 matthew83co
Joined: 2/11/2015
Msg: 30
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/14/2015 6:35:39 PM
If you have used a credit card, auto loan, or home loan.... you are a "debt spender". I just wish people would quit ****ing about a government problem that is also a societal problem. One thing I actually liked about the Iraqis beyond their respect for their elders and family was that they do not spend themselves into debt. They either have the money to buy what they want or they don't buy it!
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 31
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NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/14/2015 7:59:42 PM

If you have used a credit card, auto loan, or home loan.... you are a "debt spender". I just wish people would quit ****ing about a government problem that is also a societal problem.

Fair point, but home loans are in a different class to loans for depreciating assets such as cars or other consumer goods. They can make a lot of sense if handled responsibly.

Similarly, if the government is investing in future assets such as infrastructure, technology, and worker productivity then the debt can be sensible within reasonable parameters. Your national debt and unfunded liabilities are clearly outside of sensible parameters, but that is not to say that taking a razor to all spending is necessarily the best way forward.


Economist Paul Krugman wrote in March 2013 that by neglecting public investment and failing to create jobs, we are doing far more harm to future generations than merely passing along debt: "Fiscal policy is, indeed, a moral issue, and we should be ashamed of what we're doing to the next generation's economic prospects. But our sin involves investing too little, not borrowing too much." Young workers face high unemployment and studies have shown their income may lag throughout their careers as a result. Teacher jobs have been cut, which could affect the quality of education and competitiveness of younger Americans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States#Intergenerational_equity
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/opinion/krugman-cheating-our-children.html?src=rec&recp=13&_r=1
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 32
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/16/2015 2:56:37 PM
Politics Is Poisoning NASA’s Ability to Do What It Needs to Do
By Phil Plait


When Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, was made head of the Senate committee in charge of NASA’s funding, I (and many others) were appalled. Cruz is a science denier, flatly claiming global warming isn’t happening.

This is an issue, since many of NASA’s missions are directly focused on examining the amount, extent, and impact of that warming. And rightly so.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/03/16/nasa_and_congress_we_must_get_politics_out_of_nasa.html
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 33
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/16/2015 5:51:40 PM

would you like to see NASA cut back, continue or stopped ?


Who would suggest something as UN-AMERICAN as this?
Not surprisingly a Neocon; the same folks who "claim" that they are patriotic

NASA is an American staple,
To stop or defund NASA is about equivalent as eliminating Baseball or NFL Football

It was through the efforts of NASA that put space exploration (the final frontier) on the American agenda
not to mention that it was a key player in high tech espionage during the cold war
NASA is also involved in studying wayward asteriods that could pose a threat to the entire human race if we cannot deflect them from what would be a collision course with earth.

To defund NASA because of the debt is absurd!
what I wanna see is the mega wealthy pay their fair share into the treasury and to stop hiding their loot in off-shore banks like Romney has been doing.

Secondly, since when has the national debt been a concern for the Neocons?
Was it suddenly, as of Feb 20th 2008 when a Black-man made his appearance in the White house?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #30


And, since you are such a faithful defender of the rich and hate to see them paying too much in taxes I can only assume you must be one of them. Congratulations to you.


Not all Neocons that vote for the GOP are wealthy
Many do so because of the hate that the GOP embodies and resonates well with them

But not all the rich are pro-GOP either
Many Jews who comprise a wealthy segment of this society, stand firmly on the side of the DEM party;

They realize that the key to get wealthy is to have a broad and economically healthy middle class,
ready and willing to spend and invest, and not have a party in power who impoverishes the masses to benefit the few 2% on the top of the food chain.
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 34
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/16/2015 7:47:01 PM

would you like to see NASA cut back, continue or stopped ?


Right after the USA spends more time taking care of their own citizens and less time blowing others away.


Yeah, NASA's budget is something like $18billion now (?).
We spent several $trillion in Iraq and Afghanistan so far. The military budget is over $800billion this year.
... meanwhile they're shutting off water to homes in Detroit because they can't pay and water isn't a 'human right'?
We have bridges and roads and water/sewage infrastructure falling apart all around the country.

Heck, according to Victoria Nuland, we spent $5billion helping to overthrow the government in Ukraine... and now they're bordering on a failed bankrupt state. Money well spent?

Maybe we could cut the $400billion (so far), way over budget and still not usable, F-35 fighter program, and use some of that money to fund some infrastructure repairs instead?
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 35
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NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/17/2015 4:16:35 AM

We spent several $trillion in Iraq and Afghanistan so far.

Talk about a Pyrrhic victory. Do you even lift... Sun Tzu up and read?

And then there is the true cost, which is always much greater than the headline figure. The interest, the opportunity costs. Appalling in monetary terms, tragic when converted from the medium of exchange.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. The world in arms is not spending alone. It is spending the sweat of its labourers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the national debt." - Herbert Hoover
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 36
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/17/2015 4:24:28 AM
Convince the Chinese of this.They are very actively seeking both military and economic supremacy.Then watch.First Japan would be forced to its knees.
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/23/2015 6:18:15 PM
I think that I'll just throw in one thing here -

Firstly, to get it out of the way...How NASA spends it's money and manages itself probably has some good and some bad, but that's independent of what I want to express here. Also, how responsibly we develop and implement technology is always an issue which needs to be addressed, but that is equally independent of what I want to express here. And, btw, NASA's budget is just a tiny drop in the bucket of national spending. Picking on NASA and the money that goes into it when fussing about spending too much money here or there...just doesn't match up. But then, this is by my latest reckoning...I may be wrong about how much goes into NASA these days.

With all that said, I want to focus on one particular thing: The very idea itself of trying to explore space, and contemplating the possibility of us having a practical presence off-Earth.

Or rather...some people's attitudes towards this idea. In particular, that cynical, pessimistic, defeatist, naysaying attitude which says "we have enough problems down here on Earth...we need to solve problems down here on Earth before we try to screw around in space."

We certainly have all kinds of problems in the world that we can't be apathetic about, and need to be proactive towards. But we've always had problems, and will continue to have problems far into the future; Many of these problems are being dealt with as best we can, and many of them aren't being dealt with so well.

We (some of us, at least) have been trying to build our civilization, social well-being, and science towards an ever-better state of being. It takes work and time. And it takes serious people. People who have some sense, some heart, and some vision. Our whole history is full of problems, and those problems aren't very often abated or solved by people who look backwards or just whine about the problems or use their existence as an excuse to react to them in un-productive or self-defeating ways.

You can't live your life by only paying the bills and doing the chores, never thinking about anything else...always only worrying about the next round of bills, that you have to just go right back to work the next day, and that unexpected set-back that just popped up.

Whenever I hear about people belittling things like the pursuit of outer space by whining about all of the problems that we have "down here on Earth", this is what it makes me think of -

Me and you were walking in the woods one day, and we got caught somehow in a big mess of quicksand...maybe we were just ditsy and didn't watch what we were doing, to get so far into the quicksand that we can't reach any solid ground. Who knows. If we try to move around and save ourselves somehow, it just get's worse. But this puddle seems pretty deep and we know that we'll die eventually if we do nothing.

You look over at me and see that I'm trying to grab a tree branch above me which is just beyond my reach. My struggles of course threaten to make me sink deeper, but I surmise that I'd make the same struggles trying to reach solid ground which is further from me. You start whining and criticizing me, saying "stop screwing around trying to reach up and grab that tree branch! We got real problems down here! We need to get out of this quicksand!"

I see that it might be a good idea for us to work together by one of us helping the other get higher, and though that would push one of us deeper, after the other gets the tree branch he could pull both of us out. I also see that you have a tree branch hanging over your head also, and that you yourself might succeed in getting ahold of that one if you tried.

But instead, you just continue to b!tch, saying ""stop screwing around trying to reach up and grab that tree branch! We got real problems down here! We need to get out of this quicksand!"
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 38
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NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/23/2015 7:32:58 PM
Drink: good analogy if BOTH get out of the quick sand but it seems that the lowly guy/gal may be the climbed upon and therefor go under while the other "top"saves himself/herself.

Does it have to be on the back of the downtrodden to get out of a situation that the top guy may have caused in the first place?

Do you actually believe that those with the means will allow everyone and anyone to join them after they've messed this place up?

Their record speaks for itself.

I'm all for funding science but Nasa has gone rogue and the money wasted could and should be clearly allotted to science that helps ALL people of ALL nations, not just builds space stations for bombs or a safe haven for the rich because they fcked up Earth.

End the Fed, Stop warring, nail the rich and find their offshore accounts where they hide their cash, stop fucking up our planet and start giving a shit about what is really important.

[Cruz is the WORST person to be in charge. How does this shit even happen?]
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 39
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NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/25/2015 5:42:38 AM

We certainly have all kinds of problems in the world that we can't be apathetic about, and need to be proactive towards. But we've always had problems, and will continue to have problems far into the future; Many of these problems are being dealt with as best we can, and many of them aren't being dealt with so well.

And most of our biggest problems have only been identifiable by learning from other worlds.

"The discovery that such a thing as nuclear winter was even possible evolved out of studies of Martian dust storms. The surface of Mars, fried by ultraviolet light, is also a reminder of why it's important to keep our ozone layer intact. The runaway greenhouse effect on Venus is a valuable reminder that we must take the increasing greenhouse effect on Earth seriously. Important lessons about our environment have come from spacecraft missions to the planets. By exploring other worlds, we safeguard this one. By itself, I think this fact more than justifies the money our species has spent in sending ships to other worlds." - Carl Sagan
 etourdi65
Joined: 8/20/2014
Msg: 40
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/25/2015 6:14:10 AM

The top segment pays less in taxes (as a % of income) than the rest of the population.
that may be true , but they also pay millions more in actual dollars in one year than the average person will pay in their whole lifetime...
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 41
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/25/2015 6:17:56 AM

that may be true , but they also pay millions more in actual dollars in one year than the average person will pay in their whole lifetime...


Which is because they earn millions more in actual dollars.

It is almost like you do not understand that when someone who earns millions pays less in income tax (as a % of their income) the middle class is now on the hook to make up that shortfall.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 42
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NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/25/2015 6:50:17 AM

See this is the kind of hollow argument that I find so offputting about NASA apologists. As if we haven't done enough shitting where we eat already to figure out that many, many people will die nasty deaths from nuclear fallout even without a nuclear winter.

Sure, because local fallout is almost exactly the same as global famine. Really a total waste of time looking into that stuff.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 43
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NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/25/2015 7:22:59 AM

That's not what I said.

No, you said that the scale of death from nuclear war was known prior to consideration of nuclear winter. And by implication, that the NASA work which developed that idea was therefore useless.

saying space travel is a good way to study the effects of radiation here on earth

And that's not what Carl said, although you could well be right. There is much we don't know, and ours is not the only atmosphere from which to learn.
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 3/25/2015 4:22:43 PM
Heh...like I just got finished saying, we'll whine about our problems and use the fact that they are indeed legitimate as an excuse to be shallow and short-sighted in our endeavors...to vote for not doing things like trying to reach up and grab that tree branch so that we can pull our sorry asses up out of the mess. It'll take lots of things to make things better, and get us to stop doing some of the bad things that we do. Pursuing space is not the fix-all, but it will certainly be one of the things which bring forward progress. I know that the beef that some people have is that space is UP THERE, as if it has nothing to do with us down here, and as if it has nothing to offer us down here. But that's what's so ass backwards and ignorant...

...In days past, people concerned with the environment, and more, would try to make everyone understand how "everything is connected", globally. Well, the Earth isn't isolated. It is just as connected with the rest of the universe as continents and oceans and ecosystems are connected. This whine that I'm spotlighting is like a primitive tribe complaining to someone who is traveling out some distance to hunt or find medicinal plants, saying "We got problems here! Where are you going?" Or the tribe keeps having problems with hot lava over-running their village, or their being no ground water or rivers or lakes nearby, so someone explores to find these resources or a better location, and the tribe just runs around whining about "We got problems around here, what's he doing screwing around?"

Pursuing space is not an attempt to leave Earth for greener pastures or to be apathetic about our problems or to keep shitting irresponsibly where we're eating. It is not that at all. Not even close. But to keep insisting that it is irrelevant, is a waste of time, has no bearing on our reality or current situations, and that it is to ignore our problems or take away from an attempt to address our problems...is some of the most ass backwards ignorant assed shit that I've heard of.
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 45
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 4/1/2015 9:12:20 AM
As you can see from the data the number of people who think that NASA's budget is actually too low is at an all time high.

Along with the fact that NASA's budget as a % of the Federal budget is at an all time low.


American People: NASA Budget Is 'Too Low’ At An All- Time High

http://samuelwbennett.com/the-struggle/american-people-nasa-budget.html
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 46
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 4/1/2015 9:20:57 AM
Someone needs to reel back that message in a bottle we sent out in the form of Voyager.

The assumption that the E.T. finding it will be benevolent and pay us a visit to say hello is blindly optimistic.
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 47
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 4/1/2015 11:22:10 AM

Someone needs to reel back that message in a bottle we sent out in the form of Voyager.

The assumption that the E.T. finding it will be benevolent and pay us a visit to say hello is blindly optimistic.


At the speed it's traveling, and how long it'll probably be before E.T. finds it and decides to pay us a visit... well, my bet it leaning towards the Fermi Paradox for us humans. We'll be long gone by the time that happens.
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 4/2/2015 4:39:02 PM
I don't think that it makes sense to assume that an E.T. would be benevolent just because they're E.T. or just because they have advanced space-faring technology. Advanced space-faring technology says nothing about their culture or how their civilization evolved. The logic that they'd have no need to be mean to us may be totally irrelevant.

And, for Voyager to ever be found, you'd have to imagine two things acting in combination -

- A turtle walking from the east coast of north America to the west coast, having to negotiate all of the terrain that exists along the way. He'd get to the west coast several times faster than Voyager would reach anything.

- A toy motorboat traveling in a straight line across an ocean a few times larger than the pacific, and this ocean has maybe ten little buoys scattered randomly upon it, and nothing else. You can practically guarantee that the boat won't run into a buoy.

But, it might not be so bad if we ran into some aliens who weren't so nice. Sadly, that common enemy might bring us together and force us to get our sh!t together. A future with no really cool space ship battles would be boring.

Except that, to be more realistic about it, I suspect that technologies in a practical space-faring future would be pretty weird, such that fighting that kind of war may not be anything like what's in our movies. It might be pretty weird, and the possibilities of survival or victory might take on a whole new meaning.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 49
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 7/6/2015 10:15:16 AM
Imagine | What could be done with a Penny4NASA?
Space Advocates

Published on Apr 24, 2014

NASA's annual budget is a half a penny on your tax dollar. Imagine what we could do with a full penny.
Go to http://www.penny4nasa.org

Penny4NASA strives to increase NASA's funding to 1% by encouraging popular support for NASA through education and outreach.

We uphold the importance of NASA by highlighting scientific exploration, research and education as paramount to society's success. NASA's current budget, at 0.5% of the total U.S. budget, does not reflect the hugely important economic, technological and inspirational resource that this agency has been in its 50+ year history. This is the people saying that as a society, we want our tax dollars to reflect the importance of scientific exploration, research and education; and 0.5% doesn't cut it. The NASA budget must be increased to at least 1% of the U.S. federal budget.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=34&v=moa-ies4bPw
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 50
NASA - A Waste Of Taxpayer's Money?
Posted: 7/6/2015 10:35:15 AM
NASA , with it's original HQ in Huntsville , AL has been a crowning example of White Man's Ingenuity. Under the direction of "war criminal" Von Braun , LOL, the organization soared. RIP Hr. Von Braun. You see , NS Germany was very enthralled with space exploration. When the Allies prevailed the US was clever enough to pick up on the Aryan "brain drain" resulting from a military defeat. Hence , JFK chose Von Braun as his aeronautic advisor ; the same capacity he held with the Reich. The citizens of Huntsville enjoyed the presence of the German intellectual elites , however , NASA would soon be moved to the beautiful space coast of central Florida. Many comforts have developed from the gifts of Hr. Von Braun . the cell phone , for one. Good to see HFX is in support of beefing up a program of European Excellence.
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