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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 76
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Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefitPage 4 of 37    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37)
This thread reminds me of a friend of the family that dated a man named Mario for a few years.
Now she has a new boyfriend.
This is no joke, his name is Luigi.

That's probably why I can't read this thread without thinking of mushrooms and turtles.
 kj521
Joined: 8/8/2012
Msg: 77
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/25/2015 2:48:20 AM
Ms. Fire & Ice!

Woo Hoo! I am so excited and I just can't hide it! I'm about to lose control and I think I like it! Lol
Since I am currently on a dating hiatus myself.....I am living vicariously through y'alls love experiences. :D

Several men? You go girl! But I hope your meet date today is just lovely!
Maybe there will be no need for others.....one never knows. :)
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 78
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/25/2015 5:05:24 AM

If the feelings are genuine....there is no need for manipulation....games.....rules....or compensation.

Love is a natural process.....


True dat.

Which by the way, eliminates any need for "courting skills, and/or "a plan". The "natural process" quickly eliminates the majority for me, which, is okay with me and more than likely, those others, too. That is the "benefit" in my eyes. I have rarely followed the simple and basic "skills" of courtship. But, when the few long term relationships of mine have ended the other parties involved have come back to me after a period of time and expressed their apologies, regret when they realized feelings for them were as reliable as the sunrise each day.

But, because they read or were told somewhere along the line about how and what a guy should do to express his feelings for another, and I wasn't always following that line, they assumed that I really didn't care. In fact, I would have died for the few that I have had long term relationships with. I also walk away quietly when told that "it was over" by the other side. Everytime, at that moment, because supposedly I "didn't fight" to stay together, they again, assumed I didn't care.

Always remember kidlets, it's not usually what you are looking at, it what's you can see.
 dichoTommy
Joined: 9/17/2009
Msg: 79
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Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/26/2015 6:36:45 AM
I've only seen it mentioned in one other place in this thread, but it all just comes down to communication and honesty.

Sidestep the game, and talk to people - see what happens.

I could talk myself into damn near anyone's panties - did so plenty in my early 20s - but why? What do you get out of that? an evening of pleasure?

Put yourself out there honestly, find someone else willing to do the same. Keep looking until you both resonate. Enjoy whatever time you have together.

How is that hard?

Sure, treat the other person with respect, but to be frank, people should treat other people with respect irrespective of there being anything in it for them. Sadly, society as a gestalt hasn't quite caught up to that one...

Fvck the game. Just be real.
 Grl_next_door
Joined: 6/28/2014
Msg: 80
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/26/2015 8:41:21 AM
[But, when the few long term relationships of mine have ended the other parties involved have come back to me after a period of time and expressed their apologies, regret when they realized feelings for them were as reliable as the sunrise each day]...Walts

That is golden, Walts.

I have learned that men can react passively when we wish them to re-act, or are simply devoid of the commercial type of passionate, "romantic"' reactions we women have come to expect. Some immature women base their love relationships on romantic comedies and chick flicks, the ones where men are subtly manipulated to jump through hoops of fire to keep a precious, unique and powerful lady.

The man I married at 18 was a great, highly principled person at 23. He had what I would call a 'flat' personality, and I found him not great company... but he was a rock, had a surprisingly wicked sense of humor for an introvert, and had amazing insight. At 40, when I left for someone I thought was more compatible, he didn't fight.

Pushing 60, with several LTRs under my belt, I realize he was likely the most compatible, and closest to what I wanted for a life partner.
 CTRLvector
Joined: 9/21/2014
Msg: 81
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/26/2015 8:43:48 AM

It all just comes down to communication and honesty.


Just because you're feigning interest in a subject - doesn't mean you're being dishonest. And I don't think anyone has advocated that disingenuous tactics should be used.

But as per:


How is that hard?


It is hard - because confidence is earned - not gifted.

And in order to be yourself - the paradox of being yourself - requires confidence in yourself. A lot of guys lack confidence at the start, some never achieve confidence with self. So it becomes really hard to be yourself, if you're afraid of being yourself.

Confidence facilitates that you become a better version of yourself, in the dating circumstances that may or may not be difficult. I gained confidence around the age of 23+ I'd say, to be complete around 28.

I think confidence may never be earned, and instead people develop tendencies - and complex's - and delusions - and safeguards of mind to avoid the reality.

I think people - by and by are willfully ignorant of truth. And confidence in terms of sincerity, not as common as most would imagine.

EDIT:

LOL

Sorry the comment you quoted was jacked up man, my bad. I had to fix it - I couldn't even read it and make sense of it.
 dichoTommy
Joined: 9/17/2009
Msg: 82
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Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/26/2015 8:50:00 AM

It is hard - because confidence is earned - not gifted. And in order to be yourself - the paradox of asking the self is "it is hard, because confidence is gifted not earned.... that requires that you become a better version of yourself.


I forgot, for a moment, the range of ages here. Typically for men by their 30s, and women often earlier, personal improvement is taken as a quest.

Implicit in my statement is that aspect. I personally don't find dating especially difficult, but am always confused when I meet someone more interested in putting on airs than being themselves.
 Debisue64
Joined: 1/19/2014
Msg: 83
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Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/26/2015 3:58:40 PM
I think everyone "defines" the word courting differently.

When I look back on my 2 "in love" experiences.. both men were genuinely charming. Good at the chase.. good at flirting.

I, on the other hand... really SUCK at flirting...

I still need the man to be the "Hunter".. and not the KMA and maybe Ill give ya some penis type.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 84
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 6:30:15 AM
"Courting" doesn't have to be 50-50. But I feel that a woman should make some effort to "court" as well. If a man has to initiate all of the contact, dates etc, then he might think a woman has ( at best ) lukewarm interest in him.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 85
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 6:41:43 AM

Implicit in my statement is that aspect. I personally don't find dating especially difficult, but am always confused when I meet someone more interested in putting on airs than being themselves.


Dude, perhaps dating came easy to you. But the reality is that for many, many men it does not come easy. What is worse is that the "be yourself" statement simply leaves them being the same stupid guy that women ignore. The emancipation process, to find that better part of yourself that is confidence, does not give a s h it, and still have women crawling all over you takes time, and is only achieved by those that LEARN that process.

It's like going into a court room and when asking for a lawyer you are told that you can defend yourself, and then when you say you don't know how, someone tells you to just be yourself.

I am one of those people that first struggled, then when I learned what I needed to learn, it became very easy. So, just because you're a natural, don't put down those that struggle.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 86
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 7:59:26 AM

What is worse is that the "be yourself" statement simply leaves them being the same stupid guy that women ignore.

I disagree with this. What exactly are you talking about "learning"? If it's social skills, everyone needs to know how to interact and communicate with people and treat others well, opposite sex or not. If you're talking about doing things with/for a woman which go against your grain, aren't heartfelt, and you do them to catch a woman, then those things slip away once you've "caught" her, it's not being yourself. Nothing is worse, in my opinion, than a man who is a fake, phoney flirter who uses such methods to attract a woman and then he slips back into being the person he really is that can come across almost as indifferent afterwards. Those tactics may work to get a number of short term relationships but won't go far in maintaining a long-term relationship. You don't need women crawling all over you unless you need that for your own ego boost. You only need one who is in sync with the real you, not fake Don Juan affectations.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 87
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Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 8:05:19 AM
Chameleon.....

Exactly!!!!

While I'm sure that many women actually fall for the 'act', some of us actually don't.....

I'm thinking that type of behaviour is probably responsible for the high divorce rate as well....

Also, I don't exclude women from that particular dynamic.....I've been around MANY women who are TOTALLY unrecognizable when in the company of any man that they are interested in....

Kind of laughable actually....because when people take their time, eventually, like it or not, those 'peacock feathers' are GOING to slip.....and you can't hide who you REALLY are, no matter what 'techniques' that you employ.....
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 88
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 8:18:50 AM

If you're talking about doing things with/for a woman which go against your grain, aren't heartfelt, and you do them to catch a woman, then those things slip away once you've "caught" her, it's not being yourself.


We've had this stupid argument ad nauseum here in the forums, and as usual there are a group of women that think that learning something is akin to being fake. So here's a reality. Such tactics, even though they may not work for everyone, they do work and are very, very effective. But I expand that many of these things that men can learn, are build not to make him a PUA, but to make him a better man, a better version of himself. And if you also read any type of self help book, the first thing they tell you is "fake it until you make it." For instance, it has been proven that if you smile and laugh, even though you are not happy, it send signals to your body and you start to feel better. It has been proven to be effective, that if you have positive thoughts you end up with better outcomes in no matter what you want to pursue. So, I don't see anything wrong with a man trying to improve himself.

In the end, what you call, yourself is a constantly evolving idea that is the result of conditioning, of accepting a sense of leaned helplessness, of giving up, or willing to learn something new. Thus I don't see anything wrong with teaching a man to be better, to develop the confidence and attitude to get whatever he wants in life, instead of limiting himself because he dares expand his definition of "self."

This so called "fake" guy will learn what attracts women, and then apply from his own experience what feels right to him, and find an awesome woman that will like him and love him, not for the wimp nice guy he was, but for the guy that he has become.
 Grl_next_door
Joined: 6/28/2014
Msg: 89
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 8:19:14 AM

What is worse is that the "be yourself" statement simply leaves them being the same stupid guy that women ignore. The emancipation process, to find that better part of yourself that is confidence, does not give a s h it, and still have women crawling all over you takes time, and is only achieved by those that LEARN that process.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 90
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 8:55:15 AM

This so called "fake" guy will learn what attracts women, and then apply from his own experience what feels right to him, and find an awesome woman that will like him and love him, not for the wimp nice guy he was, but for the guy that he has become.

In this last post, you're talking about issues with self-esteem, self-worth, self-confidence- not courting skills. Such things as building up the confidence to approach a woman you're interested in, rather than sitting back and bemoaning that no women are interested in you after trying a couple of times and being rejected. I agree that anyone who suffers from low self-esteem and self-confidence can learn how to overcome that, both men and women, however...

I see "courting skills" that are dropped after the fact such as insisting on paying for dinners even when she offers (and then griping about it afterwards), pulling chairs out and opening doors (and then stopping later on), buying flowers or other tokens out of the blue (and then not even paying attention to anniversaries and birthdays), being an attentive lover (and then being a two minute wonder), being what appears to be a great conversationalist (and then practically grunting single worded responses to a topic), right down to saying they love moonlit walks, blah blah blah, etc. Those are some examples of the type of phoney things that are done by those who believe they are "skilled" in courtship and those things fall away because they aren't heartfelt. They are done in some stupid ritualistic way to draw women in who find those, or some of those, things important, by making her think that's the type of person he is and then are dropped when he goes back to being his usual self. You continue to do those things throughout a relationship if you really feel like doing them from the outset, otherwise you're not being yourself.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 91
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 10:55:02 AM

You continue to do those things throughout a relationship if you really feel like doing them from the outset, otherwise you're not being yourself.


100%

This exactly what I believe breaks most relationships down the road. What takes to get her, is what it takes to keep her. Any deviation from that initial impression will cause resentment.

This is not gender specific though.

If when you met her, she used to do her hair every week, keep her legs shaved, dress somewhat fashionable, is relatively fit, always had fresh breath, and was conversational.........................wouldn't you feel deceived if later on she settles into someone who rarely does her hair or sticks to a single hairstyle, seldom shaves, her clothes are more frumpy than fitted, she gains or looses significant weight, she wants to kiss you after eating tuna fish, and now has nothing to say?
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 92
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 11:26:07 AM
^^^
Exactly!

Where's that flirty chick that kept my attention and pampered me when we first met? :)

Keeping the courtship alive. A common reason marriages fail (besides infidelity, abuse and money).

Taking each other for granted.

On a side note, regarding the attention to detail and her appearance, a gal told me that she was tired of being adored for what she looked like.

Several moments later, she's telling me she needs a few days to get ready before she meets me. Manicure, Pedicure, Hair, etc.

For someone that doesn't want the focus to be on her looks, that's all she seems interested in.

Perhaps what she really meant was that she's tired of being adored by men she doesn't find attractive...
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 93
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 12:01:22 PM

wouldn't you feel deceived if later on she settles into someone who rarely does her hair or sticks to a single hairstyle, seldom shaves, her clothes are more frumpy than fitted, she gains or looses significant weight, she wants to kiss you after eating tuna fish, and now has nothing to say?


I've seen this happen. Where the woman used to sleep with the guy's t-shirts because they smelled of him, but when they moved together would not let the guy in bed unless he took a shower and everything smelled perfect. Or while in the initial courtship they had a ton of sex, but now she is tired, or doesn't feel sexy because she had not had a chance to do her hair, or got the proper pedicure.
 ThePig0fYourDreams
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 94
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 12:53:38 PM
Am I the only one who read the thread title as " Men need to learn cou{b]nting skills??" at first?

I was like, "damn, we learn how to do that shit in kindergarten."
 ThePig0fYourDreams
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 95
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 12:54:34 PM
Aaaaaah, dammit.

*Counting
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 96
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 1:05:22 PM
Spelling doesn't count
now we know counting doesn't spell
I don't think courting is a skill -
 CTRLvector
Joined: 9/21/2014
Msg: 97
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 1:08:53 PM

In the end, what you call, yourself is a constantly evolving idea that is the result of conditioning.


Yeah, the whole theory behind fake vs real gets muddied between two concepts of perception.

One concept revolves around the idea that people feign a better version of themselves than they actually are. The perception of "my boyfriend/girlfriend was very nice for the first three months and then he turned into an asshole/bitch," is inherently flawed - for the simple fact that stressors are not present initially. And forgiveness for annoyances are a product of limited exposure to a new person. Novelty wears off, never for get that - novelty wears off - novelty wears off - novelty wears off. So don't hold people accountable for "turning into _____."

The other concept revolves around the idea that people are going to be completely comfortable upon meeting. Which is an impossible task, I don't care how confident you are - you will be 100% more cautious with how you would normally act. And even after lengthy exposure, sometimes you have to mute your personality indefinitely.

I mean this has proven especially true after service for me - I was around nothing but lewd combat arms soldiers for 3.5 years. And my idea of what is funny vs what is appropriate often gets blurred on impulse to improvise humor from messed up situations.

Really what it comes down to is women/men holding other men/women to standards that aren't humanly possible. It's dumb really, its another great example of inability to conceptualize reality in context to human condition.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 98
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 1:25:33 PM
They do say that the only thing that is constant is change.

So then we have to be alright with the fact that there is no real us, and that we are a product of the forces/circumstances presently pressing on us? So we never know the real person, we just know who they are at the present moment with whatever circumstances they are dealing with at the time? The circumstances will change over time and then so does the person.

Sounds like a "get out of jail" card.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 99
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 4:49:47 PM

I see "courting skills" that are dropped after the fact such as insisting on paying for dinners even when she offers (and then griping about it afterwards), pulling chairs out and opening doors (and then stopping later on), buying flowers or other tokens out of the blue (and then not even paying attention to anniversaries and birthdays), being an attentive lover (and then being a two minute wonder), being what appears to be a great conversationalist (and then practically grunting single worded responses to a topic), right down to saying they love moonlit walks, blah blah blah, etc. Those are some examples of the type of phoney things that are done by those who believe they are "skilled" in courtship and those things fall away because they aren't heartfelt. They are done in some stupid ritualistic way to draw women in who find those, or some of those, things important, by making her think that's the type of person he is and then are dropped when he goes back to being his usual self


Again, not picking on you or your words chameleon, just going to "use" your words.

Do I assume you believe that pulling chairs, opening doors, buying flowers, etc are the examples of the type of phoney things that are done to "attract". Or would you define them "phoney" because of the reason "why" they are done? As in, to attract a woman? And what would you define the people that "think" that because a person does these things, for the "right" reasons, or not is surely a "good catch"????

Again, more women fall for this "stuff" than you would believe. Why do you think the "player" plays? Why would he stop? He would stop if it didn't work, correct? And then, we should question, how do we make sure the "player" and his "tactics" don't work? May I suggest, and it is only a suggestion, that the people that seem to be the "targets" of these "tactics" wake up and try to figure out what IS really important in another person, instead of these "courting skills".

Anybody can buy flowers. Anybody can open a door. Anybody can say please and thank you when the going is going good. Anybody can buy a meal, without the whining or biatching. In fact, there is a whole lot of those "types" that are doing it. At least according to a lot of women that I hear complaining about those "players".
 Demidar
Joined: 10/22/2014
Msg: 100
Men need to learn courting skills for their own benefit
Posted: 3/27/2015 5:19:04 PM
Dam, and all this time I thought when I bought flowers for a woman it was just because I wanted to . Had not realized that things I used to do just to make some one smile have become things full of ulterior motives Starting to think I am very well off alone .
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