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 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 151
Independence VS InterdependancePage 7 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)


that women don't like "just sex", and that's "how it is"


Grateful this is not entirely accurate either.
 GattoMonstrosis
Joined: 4/4/2013
Msg: 152
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History
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 12:01:04 AM
I think women are under a lot more pressure to say that they don't like sex for the sake of sex, whereas men are expected to be all about that and not really believed if they say they're not, i mean look at Russell Brand, claims to have slept with thousands and no one really thinks much about it other than "But the man's a twat!!" But if it were Zooey Deschanel making the claim? She'd be crucified as a slag.
Ridiculously though a lot of the people perpetuating the stereotypical generalizations of all men as indiscriminate seed spreaders and all women as Doris Day are men trying to appear to be 'in' with the women because it might get them a shag, or at least make them look like more attractive prospects. Of course not everyone who says they believe it really don't, but there is still a lot of pressure to pretend that they do if they want to get anywhere.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 153
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History
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 6:04:10 AM
You know...way back when, when I first started working towards equal rights for women....I really believed that by 2015 that this WOULD be a 'non-issue'....

How wrong I WAS!!!!!

Hard to believe that over 100 years after the dawn of feminism that there are STILL men AND women who believe that a woman is a 'slut' depending on who or how many men she sleeps with and/or the clothes she wears....

As for Russell Brand, well, wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole myself as I don't see that someone who has had incredible amounts of sex in ANY way makes them a better partner...in fact, I would tend to think the opposite, myself...

In fact, sex and/or love/romance addict comes to mind....lol

But seriously, there are a lot of men and women who are out there perpetuating a stereotype that women don't like sex as much as men or are incapable of having casual sex without being able to separate emotionally....

That is just not true of ALL women, although that does seem to be a basic difference between men and women on some levels....
Women tend to want to feel emotionally close to someone they are having sex with, whereas from what I understand, men feel close as a RESULT of having sex with a woman....
At least, that's what I have heard from many men that I've asked about the subject....
And, there's no denying that the majority of 'regret' felt after a casual sexual encounter seems to be on the woman's part...

Seems like some kind of 'cosmic joke' if you ask me....LOL

Any way...for me personally, sex can be either a 'shared activity' or an expression of a deeper feeling or sharing a deeper feeling....

I have never felt guilty and/or bad about having casual sex, and figure that who I have had it with is my own business, as is how many times I have had it....No question that the sex, even the fun let's get down and dirty sex that can be had within a relationship at times, IS enjoyable for me, and I'm grateful that I don't live in a country that believes that I should be put to DEATH because of it.....

Thank you Feminism... ;-)
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 154
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 6:34:00 AM

I think women are under a lot more pressure to say that they don't like sex for the sake of sex, whereas men are expected to be all about that and not really believed if they say they're not

I agree with the first part, but not at all the 2nd part. Guys will get lambasted for being known to sleep around and it'll cost him some good poontang opportunities. I've been a victim of this on more than one occasion -- from exaggerated & made-up stories. At least give me all that sex, if you city-neighbors are going to accuse me of that! :)

What you're referring to is the American Pie concept -- and for the guy, it fades after college. There is a certain element to it that has an advantage -- especially if he's a stud -- and it's OK if he's famous and a stud (but still when known only hurts his game for actual relationship-catches). But we shouldn't compare things to famous people anyway, that gives false impressions. For a guy known to bang a lot of girls non-stop, that is NOT a good reputation to have once well past college. He's seen as a sleaze, even in very socially liberal environments. "He sleeps around," isn't a positive. Among other guys who do wish to get more action -- there'll be a good amount who have some level of admiration or looking up to him.... so in some sense, said guy can draw some positive out of the overall negative thing.

You know...way back when, when I first started working towards equal rights for women....I really believed that by 2015 that this WOULD be a 'non-issue'....

How wrong I WAS!!!!!

Hey, it's 2015. Women can drive! (Canada lets them drive... right?) Your belief has come true!! ;)

Women tend to want to feel emotionally close to someone they are having sex with, whereas from what I understand, men feel close as a RESULT of having sex with a woman....

Well, I think the false "saying" is that women will feel close/attached as a result of having sex (at 7am: "We're boyfriend/girlfriend, right?!?!"), where the guy just wants to do it and won't mind tossing her out like the used condom he just had on.

Here's my observation 1st hand and 2nd hand: Girls tend not to have sex so readily with guys below their league "for fun". There's the social stigma that's heavier on them, propagated also by fellow women (jealousy & properness; guys wouldn't mind them opening up!) -- and so it has to be a bigger 'deal' when it does come "for fun". Plus, due to lack of competition for "just for fun", that isn't so hard.

Well, BOTH men & women are going to often have emotional entanglements with the opp-sex when it comes to sex, when that other person is at least a bit above their league. With guys, many of the gals they'll fool around with Won't be above their league -- so no emotional attachment, which exaggerates the Assumption that guys just lack emotion. It's just that they can pork a 5 when he's a 7. A gal who's a 7, even sexually liberal, is much less often wanting to casually swing into bed with a 5.

I think WHEN women want something, they'll Tend to have more emotion about it than guys, typically -- and that's where I think the exaggerated/society assumptions stem from. But just that, by itself, doesn't explain what really goes on, IMO.
 Siennarh
Joined: 5/1/2015
Msg: 155
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 6:42:40 AM
I think men do generally tend to have sex more casually than females. There is a lot more risk for females in having sex, even casually.


where the guy just wants to do it and won't mind tossing her out like the used condom he just had on.

That's the vibe I get from a lot of men, the kind of thinking.
Hence why I want a virgin as well.
 GattoMonstrosis
Joined: 4/4/2013
Msg: 156
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 8:03:41 AM

You know...way back when, when I first started working towards equal rights for women....I really believed that by 2015 that this WOULD be a 'non-issue'....


I don't think it ever will be, it's too deeply a ingrained in the social fabric that good or nice girls do X and don't do Y. I'm reminded of a conversation on another site where someone actually used the phrase "Spoiled for marriage" in the same way that he talked about women "spoiling" themselves with Tatts, peircings and careers (yes he *did* put those together) that right thinking men would be repulsed by.
I was always in two minds whether he actually believed such garbage or if he just said it to incite the flame wars that inevitably followed, i hope it was the latter but i have a sneaking suspicion that he was dead serious.


But seriously, there are a lot of men and women who are out there perpetuating a stereotype that women don't like sex as much as men or are incapable of having casual sex without being able to separate emotionally....


God yes! How many times have you seen that argument come up as a pronouncement of inescapable biological truth. It wouldn't be so bad if they'd actually arrived at the opinion themselves so you stood a chance of getting your own point across, instead it's an inherited article of faith.


Seems like some kind of 'cosmic joke' if you ask me....LOL


Sex is the evidence that if a creator god exists then he's a merry prankster god, why else put balls on the outside and forget to put a G spot in womens backsides? :)

Also he didn't subcontract the design work for mens equipment to Ferrari. :)
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 157
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 9:13:21 AM

But I dont think many men want sex for sex.


I disagree. I know plenty of men who prefer sex as part of a great relationship, and I know men who are selective about the women they have sex with, BUT I still believe almost every man has had casual sex at some point in his life just because he wanted to get his rocks off.

What I don't understand is why they are accused of "using" a woman for sex. She got sex, too, right? If you don't want to have sex, don't. If you are having sex and expecting that someone owes you a relationship (or anything else) you are missing the point.


I believe if you just have sex with a man and its nothing more than sex you wont see him again.


I don't want to see him again! If I am having sex just to meet the need for sex, it is generally separate from my desire for a relationship.


You may not get a full on relationship but if you have sex with a man because you want the man, its likely he will return.


Why do you expect to "GET" anything? This is exactly the attitude that perpetuates the whole stud/slut dichotomy. You don't GIVE sex to GET a relationship.
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 158
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 9:28:27 AM
Here we go again...

Another 'meaningful' thread has devolved from relationship talk to sex stuff.

If sex is part of a relationship, why discuss it?

Are folks committing to relationships when sex is an issue already?

Seems like sex is an issue when the relationship has died already.

If it's such a burden, get help or get out.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 159
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 9:41:36 AM
indeed, we make the whole issue complicated...which then renders something simple...complicated. in some cases, we want to have sex in order to feel good about ourself--when we should feel good about ourself, first, then have sex. by taking a short cut, we may decide we need to fake a relationship, in order to get sex, so we can feel we are desired, not rejected.

when people get rejected by a potential partner, it isn't the sex we're missing so much as its the personal impact of, "aren't we enough to turn you on?" we get less cranky about someone turning down our request for money (unless we've tied in our mind that request to gaining something very pleasurable).
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 160
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 9:57:17 AM

Hard to believe that over 100 years after the dawn of feminism that there are STILL men AND women who believe that a woman is a 'slut' depending on who or how many men she sleeps with and/or the clothes she wears....


YESSSSS! *fist pumps*
If women didn't have to worry about the stigma of being called sluts, they could be more comfortable with their libidos. Live it, enjoy it however they see fit. Whether it be waiting til marriage or fuking any man they want like a hotwife... and everything in between. Slut shaming needs to stop.



Hey, it's 2015. Women can drive! (Canada lets them drive... right?) Your belief has come true!! ;)


You know there's haha humor and there's you're going to get your ass kicked humor. Guess which kind of humor this line from you is NG.
Yes.. Im being a sensitive Canadian woman ;p



and that's where I think the exaggerated/society assumptions stem from


Actually it starts in the men's locker room with the lies,bragging about who did what with whom.
And you'd wonder why women get so emotional when treated a certain way.


I think men do generally tend to have sex more casually than females.


Because they don't have to worry about being branded a slut and/or getting pregnant.



I would be put off a man if he had sex with a lot of women.


I'd be more put off if he had sex with a lot of women and is still bad in bed.



know plenty of men who prefer sex as part of a great relationship, and I know men who are selective about the women they have sex with, BUT I still believe almost every man has had casual sex at some point in his life just because he wanted to get his rocks off.
What I don't understand is why they are accused of "using" a woman for sex. She got sex, too, right? If you don't want to have sex, don't. If you are having sex and expecting that someone owes you a relationship (or anything else) you are missing the point.
I don't want to see him again! If I am having sex just to meet the need for sex, it is generally separate from my desire for a relationship. ......
Why do you expect to "GET" anything? This is exactly the attitude that perpetuates the whole stud/slut dichotomy. You don't GIVE sex to GET a relationship.


This!!!!



Mostly they dont like it


How do you know they don't like it? Did you ask them all? If they didn't have to worry about the stigma of shame, their answer would be very different from what you just assumed.




If it's such a burden, get help or get out.


:)
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 161
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 10:01:09 AM

Depends on how they have done it. Gotten her drunk is not good, led her on to believe he has feelings for her, mis-understood that MOST women will feel used if they have sex for sex.


Getting someone drunk to take advantage of her/him is disgusting, agreed. There is a lot of education given on the topic of consent in my neck of the woods. In fact, here in Ontario, CA, our new Sex Ed curriculum is quite the hot topic in the news, with protesters and everything!

I personally don't think it is that hard to tell if a man wants you for you or wants you for sex, but I have a well-developed BS meter. For example, I am completely immune to flattery. I look at actions, more than words. I have had casual sex and I have never felt used because of it because it wasn't something I gave in exchange for something else.


Because I dont have sex for sex, when I have sex its not with the view of getting my sexual needs met. Its with the view of enhancing or expressing feelings for the man Im having sex with.


I guess some people can repress their sexual needs for a long time, or their needs are not that strong to begin with. I have been divorced over ten years, and have not had many relationships during that time. I'm unwilling to wait until I am in a relationship to have sex again.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 162
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 10:02:19 AM

we make the whole issue complicated...which then renders something simple...complicated. in some cases, we want to have sex in order to feel good about ourself--when we should feel good about ourself, first, then have sex. by taking a short cut, we may decide we need to fake a relationship, in order to get sex, so we can feel we are desired, not rejected.



I liked everything you said until the fake a relationship part.
I honestly believe women need to into the mind of a man more, aka think like a man, to understand how to foster a healthy slut-shaming free sex life. But this won't work if she views him as a pig or if he is a man who slut shames women.
And faking a relationship? That's complicating things right there imo.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 163
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 10:21:06 AM
historically, especially during the age where government was defined as "Divine Right of Kings", a queen who pursued her libido might make for bad crops. In our modern age, yes, one is still annoyed that some get a benefit from denying women their right to get laid when they feel like it. It would even help men to let women shuck the "Slut" label and be more free. of course, paying single moms equally would also help society in general. but then we begin putting one foot on a slippery political slope when we go there.

"I honestly believe women need to into the mind of a man more, aka think like a man,"

>>>I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE this to occur. likely not for the same reasons. but one of the results would be to convince women to stop slut-shaming others....well...except in cases of jealousy. sometimes we do throw that word around when we didn't get what we wanted. like the old joke, the difference between a b1tch (which is an acronym for babe in total control here) a ho is a bee-och sleeps with everyone but you.

back to the point. it would help to modernize the idea of the double standard for women. as for faking a relationship, some do it b/c they fake being a human. no, really. a relationship isn't only just for raising children together, its a social connection you make with another human, AND it helps you to be more "you" in life. the other person is your cheerleader, for when you need a cheerleader.

when you need a cheerleader every day...you're a PITA. you should be your own cheerleader, and only need someone else when you're having one of those crappy days and need someone to remind you that you are capable of handling what got thrown at you.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 164
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 10:26:10 AM

It would even help men to let women shuck the "Slut" label and be more free. of course, paying single moms equally would also help society in general........




Why does it not surprise me you would bring this up.
And we wonder why women go through such bs.
Don't feed the trolls my mind says.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 165
financial Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 10:33:50 AM
well, gosh, you're going to have to explain the above--paying Single Moms equally rather than paying SM three quarters of what men makes, wouldn't help the SM raise their kids in better neighborhoods and help put food in the kitchen so that they don't have to go on food stamp assistance after divorce leaves them the house and not enough to pay the mortgage, and thus making it easier for SM to raise kids (assuming a lower paycheck is part of the problem of keeping kids out of poverty) doesn't help make better kids which then helps society?

if that's not true, then why the big deal about inequality in pay?
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 166
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 11:28:49 AM

Getting someone drunk to take advantage of her/him is disgusting, agreed.
.............
Its rape in the UK. We've just had a high profile footballer go to jail for two years and be refused back into football once he got out for doing exactly that. H


Yes, here too. You cannot consent if you are not in full control of your faculties.


Really? what are they protesting about?


HA! Good question. I don't think they know. Last week a parent went to an elementary school principal to complain.

PARENT: I disagree with the new Sex Ed Curriculum, and I may keep my child home (from all school classes for a week!) to protest it.
PRINCIPAL: Have you the curriculum?
PARENT: No, but I disagree with what I have heard.
PRINCIPAL: Get out my office. (NO, not really. LOL. She told the parent to come back when he had read it).

There are some realities ( same sex coupling, consent, transgender issues ) that certain groups of people seem to be in denial about. There are also some folks that believe that if you teach a child what it means to be homosexual, then the child will become homosexual.

Parents have the right to keep their kids home (during the scheduled sex ed lessons) if they want.

If I were to design the sex ed curriculum, I would say that young girls should learn early about masturbation. It seems to come pretty naturally to boys, but a LOT of girls don't even know they have a clitoris, or that they can self-pleasure. So what happens is a teenage girl ONLY gets all hot and bothered when she is with a boy. She thinks the only way to have these pleasurable physical sensations is if a boy gives them to her. Then what? She has sex (in part) with boys before she is mature enough on an emotional level to handle it. JMO!


Its not so much repressing them, I dont get them unless I have the feelings to go with them. Since splitting with my ex I have struggled but its not to do with sex its just the need to lay in a mans arms, be kissed and intimate and I guess to love and be loved.


If that's how you feel, fair enough for you. It isn't how every woman feels.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 167
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History
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 11:47:44 AM

What I don't understand is why they are accused of "using" a woman for sex.

When two people are both having sex because they want to, and there are no deceptions or illusions, that should be fine. But the idea of someone "using" someone else for sex comes from when some people's practices involve some kind of deception, being vague and unclear, taking advantage of unspoken implications while keeping deniable plausibility for themselves. You "use" someone for sex anytime you dishonestly nurture a certain emotional state or intellectual perception in the other person concerning the phenomenon of you two getting close...even if it's with passive tactics so you can pretend to be innocent. This is done by both men and women alike. And that's why someone should go about things a certain way...why I go about them in a certain way.

I think men do generally tend to have sex more casually than females.

I think that this might be just another false stereotype. One that needs to stop being perpetuated...and who exactly would perpetuate it? Those men who're having casual sex, need a woman for said sex. Those men aren't doing it with trees or watermelons, or each other, otherwise that wouldn't be what we're talking about and would be irrelevant anyway. Which means that the number of women doing this might be close to the same number of men doing it. The numbers might not be too close to exactly equal, but I don't think that there's any degree of difference which would mean anything important.

You know...way back when, when I first started working towards equal rights for women....I really believed that by 2015 that this WOULD be a 'non-issue'....

There are different reasons why more progress hasn't been made in the areas of gender-equality and violence-upon-women, as well as the slut-labeling that we're talking about here. One of these problems is within the movement of Feminism itself. I've tried more than once to open dialogue on this and explain it in these very forums, my only motivation being to help the cause and do so from an informed standpoint. And the fact that I was reacted to the way that I was is part of how I mean that this particular problem is within the movement itself. Folks who claim to be for the causes of Feminism exhibited violently dishonest, mischaracterizing, and strawman-like reactions...acting as if I gave some concrete impression that I don't understand the plight of women or the problems, or am against these social changes, and trying to equate me with others who are certainly not necessarily "on my side" in every respect. And then the focus was put on my reaction to this reaction and my use of vulgar language...side-stepping what originally happened and why I responded to the response the way I did. This behavior proves to me that you're, or other's, intentions or effectiveness would be suspect.

The progress for which Feminism is supposed to be fighting will take too damned long to come about because of certain issues within the movement itself. There are many more people who would contribute, but they don't because they have the sense to see that something fundamental is wrong with the whole movement. And when you sabotage yourself in this specific way, you will never make the progress that you should be wanting to make.

There really is no excuse for this any time it happens, in any discussion on any subject. And when I find this pattern of thinking or behavior in the very people who're fighting for these social changes, sabotaging their whole effort, it's quite discouraging and makes me wonder about their true intentions. People like this cannot justify their predisposition with the fact that they're on the short-end of that injustice-stick either...many of the bad-people in society are the ones who believe that they're defending against the bad-people or bad-things, never stopping to think about it all, which of course is a bit azz-backwards.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 168
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 12:26:47 PM

If that's how you feel, fair enough for you. It isn't how every woman feels.



Thank you for adding this.
I find it rather close minded and unfair to the entire population of the world to speak for them based on personal experience and knowledge of the people they know. That is just a small group versus an entire world.
Just because one person does or don't doesn't mean the whole world is the same.

I fully advocate the choice to do whatever an adult wants providing it is done safely and honestly.
AND ......this is important.......that freedom of choice includes abstinence, waiting til marriage and vanilla sex. I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't advocate this along with everything else under the "sexual umbrella".
Adults should be free to do whatever they want without judgement and shame.
Teens, boys and girls, need to be guided into becoming that responsible adult with full honest accountability and confidence of choice....whatever that choice is.

my .02
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 169
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 5:23:08 PM

I fully advocate the choice to do whatever an adult wants providing it is done safely and honestly.
AND ......this is important.......that freedom of choice includes abstinence, waiting til marriage and vanilla sex. I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't advocate this along with everything else under the "sexual umbrella".


Yep!


It should come natural to girls.


It doesn't though. Think of the jokes in movies, on TV, and in the locker rooms about male "jerking off" or "fapping", but you rarely see references to female masturbation. Having three grown up sons, I know ALL about the male habit, but having close friends who are mothers of girls, they say female masturbation just isn't talked about. Also, let's be honest that it's a pretty straight forward mechanical practice for boys. Girls bodies and the mechanism of orgasm is more complex, and all the more reason for a well-trained sex ed teacher or nurse explain to them.


Not sure what environment your in but what kind of culture frowns on masturbation and accepts young casual sex activities? Dont they go hand in hand ie if the religion or society frowns on one it frowns on both?


I didn't say my society ( which is a mosaic of many different cultures and ethnicities) frowns on masturbation. I said that girls don't seem to know about it the way boys do.

I also didn't say my culture is accepting of casual sex for young people. I think most parents would promote abstinence if they thought it would work. Kids are having sex. It seems foolhardy not to educate them about it, since they are going to do it anyway.

As far as casual sex among adults, there are still plenty of people who don't judge men for having it, but are very critical of women for doing the same. Needless to say, I am not one of those people.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 170
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/10/2015 5:34:18 PM
groups looking for social change tend to move at an evolutionary, rather than revolutionary, pace when another group benefits from the status quo, and when the group isn't homogenous in opinion (not every feminist is passionately pro-choice, for example. its a divisive issue). America has been for private gun ownership the last two decades, so it will take just as long to change that. when America invades a society that existed long before it and says, "OK, you're going to change your view on woman's sex education before we leave here in three years", its spitting into the wind.

what kind of culture frowns on masturbation? the one that teaches its a sin to spill one's seed on the ground. had a professor back at university who asked us to name all the slang terms for male masturbation (there was a lot) and for female masturbation (there were two). there's likely more mention of wanking off on Comedy Central than on any channel that might be deemed an education channel.

Texas just made the news for its high rate of chlamydia among students taught abstinence instead of birth control in sex ed. you can practically feel the schadenfreude in the commentators.

in the end, relationships are about what we need. and since we're all different, we need different things. and casual sex is a bit like riding a motorcycle--refuse to wear the right protection, don't act like an adult, and you will likely find its not safe nor fun in the long run
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 171
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/11/2015 12:53:02 AM

I disagree. I know plenty of men who prefer sex as part of a great relationship

Pretty much everyone has sex as part of a great relationship (well, if under 80 yo?). And even if it's too high on the priority scale, or even the highest, it doesn't mean they have the mentality of "just want sex".

BUT I still believe almost every man has had casual sex at some point in his life just because he wanted to get his rocks off.

Pretty much every one has wanted to, and a big majority has at some point in their lives. And many many many women as well. Not every woman having casual sex is trying to coax a guy into being her new BF. That would be a wild misconception, although it's something to shield the unfair slant against women & sex, even though both the slant against women that they're bad if they have casual sex, and the concept that casual sex involves trickery by the guy to get her in bed or trickery by the gal to box him into a relationship are both byproducts of neurotic society & "tradition".

The average # of casual sexual encounters men have had is about equal to the average # that women have had. Basic logic shows that a guy's average "#" overall is basically equal to a woman's average "#". Casual sex is casual sex -- whether the girl (or guy) is hoping/expecting something not so casual to spawn from it later on.

I don't want to see him again! If I am having sex just to meet the need for sex, it is generally separate from my desire for a relationship.

Well, not so fast (not You per se, but every person). I agree that women too will very often have the same mindset when it comes to casual sex. But one may want repeated sexual encounters NSA. And maybe there's enough attraction where they don't want anything non-casual Now, but, maybe later/who-knows (kind of like casual dating). Of course, another component of society's neuroticism is that if you have a casual sexual encounter, one's desire to see that other person again may dwindle as they may lose respect for the other (or make them feel weird about the situation altogether). If it "ruins" it -- that's a shame, as that's unnecessary.

You don't GIVE sex to GET a relationship.

Exactly. I once was dating an older woman (I was 32, she was 42)... she even had a 13 year old daughter. But she had, and even bragged underneath it all, about having this "carrot and stick" mentality of trying a Reverse route of that, which just ruins things. Her mentality was that "oh, you can't have a piece of me until you have EARNED it". That motif, that attitude -- really killed it. It was riddled with "If you do this and that, and we're an item, maybe you can get some...". Things were held at 2nd base for a good while. She was more obsessed about sex than I was with this whole 'game'. All that does is perpetuate a guy to Chase The Carrot as she's Wanting him to do (for a power trip for regret putting out to past dudes too quickly), and not have him step back and soak in whether they're compatible. Don't dangle "sex" and have someone chase it over weeks of dating. That only pushes a focus on sex, not relationship compatibility.

Because they don't have to worry about being branded a slut and/or getting pregnant.

For guys it's easier to avoid being branded a slut, but it can be there. Many guys do worry about getting a woman prego. Well, sure, many guys don't worry enough, but then again, unfortunately ther's also too many gals who don't worry enough either.

A funny thing about crazy society that perpetuates stereotypes about women & men, and sex... I've seen this too many times: Sally goes out on a low-key/casual date with Johnny. In the end, it doesn't work out. Johnny's a bit out of her league and/or the same but she's really attracted to him. Whether they have sex or not, the stupid belief is that Johnny just wanted sex! Sally will explain it these ways, in both different situations, after Johnny's not calling anymore after the 1st date:

(a) "Johnny just wanted sex. We got back to his place afterward, we're on his couch having a nightcap (beer)... he kisses me. It intensifies, one thing leads to another and we end up getting intimate. We have sex. The next morning things seem fine, but it's been days. I've initiated texts and he takes forever to respond and does so very little. He's lost interest. He Just Wanted Sex!"

(b) "Johnny just wanted sex. We go back to his place afterward, we're on his couch having a nightcap (beer)... he kisses me. Okay, nice... it intensifies some but, ya know, I keep it at just kissing on the couch, no hands below the shoulder -- it was just kissing. Which I thought was just fine -- 1st date. But afterward, I've initiated all the texts and he takes forever to respond and does so very little. He's lost interest. He Just Wanted Sex!"
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 172
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/11/2015 9:11:47 AM
Since neither a gun nor a prison was used, the "being held hostage" was done with permission. If we stay with someone who keeps dangling the carrot--whether its a financial loan that never arrives from a family member wanting our attention, or its a sexual promise from someone who is worried they lose when they trade sex for love--we do so b/c we choose to. perhaps we don't have better options to substitute, or that person offers more than the carrot, and we enjoy the other benefits but argue over the carrot, which converts into proverbial sour grapes.

an unattractive person can't hold our sex hostage, b/c we aren't looking for sex from them enough for it to be a currency. but if we respect someone for the achievements they have made in life, and then get soured on their hostage negotiation...we might be able to say, "this person is business smart, is financially stable, is a successful parent...but sucks at dating."

we can be great at a lot of things, and still not be an angel. our relationships are as healthy as we are. relationships are, in a way, a tool of life, like money is a tool of life. yet there are people who see money as an end goal, rather than as just a tool to use to reach a higher end goal.
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 173
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/11/2015 9:39:43 AM
Is independent sex possible?
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 174
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/11/2015 10:15:30 AM

Is independent sex possible?


That depends on what your definition of "is" is, doesn't it?
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 175
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/11/2015 11:37:42 AM

Actually, Johny could grow up a bit more and not even try to go there in the first place if she is saying she wants a relationship and he knows he doesnt. Leave the woman alone.


Why do I get the impression that if the situation was the opposite-she doesn't want a relationship (in whatever form) with him, but they're having sex anyways-there wouldn't be much pity for the guy?
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